| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 15:33:04
Hello TMS'ers,
I've had a hell of a week so I thought I share with you guys.
My symptoms have been on the increase of the last few weeks so I've been dialoguing a lot and trying to feel the rage. I'm often successful however the relief from the next bout of symptoms is decreasing in time to less than a day. Today I had a couple of tests for two classes I am taking but my symptoms in my right arm were so strong that I was having trouble doing anything least of all writing.
Since I know that my core issue is with my mother and my childhood abandonment issues I decided to give her call. I explained to her the situation I was in and that I need to express the rage to her. Pretty soon I started to feel some fear and I knew that that was my signal to get it out. I put the phone down on the table and screamed as loud as I could " where the hell where you g__ d___ i_" a number of times until I was exhausted. After that I could feel my symptoms easing -- finally.
My mom has been very supportive of my effort to get this stuff out. I'm not suggesting that others try this with their parents as AnneG has aptly put in her posts.
This time the relief from symptoms was a little more lasting and I didn't have any problems with the tests the next day. Its been about 24 hours and I can feel the symptoms coming back but at least I got some relief.
I can see that I'm going to need to practice this same experience in my support group over and over again. It's emotionally exhausting and there's a part of me that doesn't want to do it but what choice do I have. It seems that I have to lose control if I want to get control of my body.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:15:16
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Pain
Shawn Smith- March 22, 2005
I remember the pleasure as I reached out to gently touch her cheek
My dear mother, when I cast my gaze upon her, saw myself in her eyes
Full of so much sadness and worry
Full of so much tenderness and love
I, the final fruit of her womb, felt so re-assured when she was taking care of me
She would take care of everything and I did not need to worry
Pleasure is a rarity for me these days
Pain, excruciating physical pain, is my daily lot
I feel that my mind will snap
Hot tears stream down my face
I sob like a little child
My heart is completely broken
My mom is so far away and she can't help me now
I wish she could tuck me in just one more time
I cry out to Allah for mercy
Is physical pain masking a deeper and more profound pain within me of which I am unaware?
Is my inner pain so great and so intense that my brain is telling my body to experience physical pain instead so that I will not deal with these emotional issues?
I don't know the answers to these questions and neither do all the doctors I have visited.
I feel guilty
I feel remorse
I feel anger
I feel fear
And, of course, the pain persists.................
Shawn,
Those are powerful words that caused me to wake up last night at 4:00am and think about it. Thank you for sharing with us. I feel very validated by these words because this is exactly what is going on with me. What I needed from my parents and didn't get was validation! I needed someone to notice the pain that I was going through. I needed someone to understand and comfort me. What I got was emotional distance. I got In-validated for my feelings. Therefore to matter most I learned to shut down my feelings. I hid the pain and anger from myself and I hid it from others. Now it is my job to provide that love and support and validation for my childs feelings. They are still there and waiting for someone to do something about them. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:02:30
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
I've been reading about John Bradshaw and his books - there are quite a few. One thing - are they based in theology? In other words, do you think they would be of interest to someone who takes a secular view on things?
Absolutely! He talks a lot about how religion can get in the way of feelings.
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
[br
Another book that I got a link to that looks good is, 'Healing the Child Within' by Charles Whitfield. Have you come across it?
I haven't read that one. Let me know what you think if you do.
regards |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:00:15
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
I've been reading about John Bradshaw and his books - there are quite a few. One thing - are they based in theology? In other words, do you think they would be of interest to someone who takes a secular view on things?
Absolutely! He talks a lot about how religion can get in the way of feelings.
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
[br
Another book that I got a link to that looks good is, 'Healing the Child Within' by Charles Whitfield. Have you come across it?
I haven't read that one. Let me know what you think if you do.
regards |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 06:04:22
Thanks for the information, miehnesor. I found the book you mentioned on Amazon - it still is very popular - despatched normally within 24 hours. It's by Chopich and Paul.
I've been reading about John Bradshaw and his books - there are quite a few. One thing - are they based in theology? In other words, do you think they would be of interest to someone who takes a secular view on things?
Another book that I got a link to that looks good is, 'Healing the Child Within' by Charles Whitfield. Have you come across it?
I'll let you know how I find whichever author I decide to go for.
Thanks again.
The symptoms you describe, Shawn are often mentioned here and like you, most of us have gone through tests, scans and other procedures; tried every treatment available, but got nowhere until gaining insight by making the link between physical conditions and negative emotions, usually supressed.
Most, but by no means all, of us who post here, have found that recovery did not happen as quickly and easily as Dr Sarno describes in his books. It takes time, lots of work and determination to stop letting the pain stop us from doing the things we want to do.
Best wishes
Anne
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| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 23:22:50
quote:
Originally posted by mala
I think most parents do try their best and still don't get it right. Many have too much of their own baggage to deal with and different sets of rules and criteria for raising kids. Mala
I agree with this. I would also add that when parents have baggage and they have not dealt seriously with it then it can and will adversely affect their ability to parent well.
I am a parent of a young child myself and can tell you with certainty that the psychological work i've done over the last few years where I can connect with my own pain has had a very positive effect on the patience and compassion that I have for my son. This is a side, but very important, benefit to working seriously on your own issues. It has also made me more comfortable with others emotions as well and I don't seem to get as defensive when others are angry with me. If it weren't for TMS I certainly never would have explored the unconscious and my family would be the worse for it.
As for my own parents, I believe they did the best they could and I do not blame them for what happened to me. I'm sorry that they were not able to work out their own issues before they decided to have children as that would have lessened my injury that later resulted in TMS. |
| mala |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 18:56:08
Parenting is a tough thing to get right and there are few people who do. We go to college and university to get qualifications so that we can become professionals . Without these qualifications no one would give us the jobs we want but there is no degree needed for the most important job in one's life and that is being a parent. There is no one to tell you how to deal with monetary, sociological, emotional physical, and psychological aspects of child rearing.
I think most parents do try their best and still don't get it right. Many have too much of their own baggage to deal with and different sets of rules and criteria for raising kids. Even people who say that their own parents screwed up will still screw up with their own kids and kids will always find some fault or the other with their parents. Many of you out there who think you are doing a better job than your parents did - watch out. Your kids will come back and bite you on the bum later with many criticisms of how you screwed up. It's just the naure of being a parent.
I think this Philip larkin poem says it all.
They **** you up, your mom and dad
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were ****ed up in their turn
By fools in old-stylen hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can
And don't have any kids yourself.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:39:14
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
Do you know of any writers who explore this?
Anne,
I was interested in the inner child stuff about 3 years ago and when I first sought therapy I wanted to find someone who specialized in this kind of work. There is a lot of stuff published on this subject. John Bradshaw has made his life work around inner child work and has published a number of books on the subject such as "homecoming" and many others. I've attended a couple of his weekend workshops and the support group that I participate came from people from one of the workshops. He also sells lots of tapes. The most helpful one that i've purchased is called "Finishing your business with mother". I really like Bradshaws approach because he does not set out to blame but rather to simple explore what actually happened and how to go about grieving your own grief.
A book that was recommended me from one of my support group members that i've read is called "healing your aloneness". It's a great book and its short. The basic premise of the book is that you can unlock the secrets of the inner child by becoming the adult advocate and commit yourself to learning from the child. You have to treat the inner child as if he was a real child. Slowly the child builds trust that you will be there for him and he opens up his hurt and pain and anger. This process takes a lot of time but for me it has been well worth it. I can't locate the book presently and I can't remember the authors at the moment. If you can't find it let me know and I'll try and get you the information.
The inner child stuff is key for me since that's where I got injured and because I have such few actually memories(of specific scenes) to work with. |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:25:35
Prostatitus (non Bacterial)
foot pain - and loses circulation
sever back pain
and remittant pain in neck, arms, legs, throat and even hands
Have had many exams done to me but still nothing comes up
Reading about TMS gave me a lot of insight but it did not take away the pain |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:24:52
Sorry, Shawn - I read it again and I think what you are saying came across more clearly than it did at first.
Best wishes
Anne
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| n/a |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:15:05
actually, I am a TMS sufferer and the poem which I posted on this message board was how I felt and had nothing to do with promoting any faith |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 16:37:47
Hi Shawn
The pain you feel comes through in the moving poem that you wrote and I take it from what you say that your relationship with your mother was very good.
Has reading about TMS helped you in any way? You haven't outlined the TMS problems you suffer. You might find it helpful to do that and discuss the issues that affect you, with people here.
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| n/a |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 15:08:48
Pain
Shawn Smith- March 22, 2005
I remember the pleasure as I reached out to gently touch her cheek
My dear mother, when I cast my gaze upon her, saw myself in her eyes
Full of so much sadness and worry
Full of so much tenderness and love
I, the final fruit of her womb, felt so re-assured when she was taking care of me
She would take care of everything and I did not need to worry
Pleasure is a rarity for me these days
Pain, excruciating physical pain, is my daily lot
I feel that my mind will snap
Hot tears stream down my face
I sob like a little child
My heart is completely broken
My mom is so far away and she can't help me now
I wish she could tuck me in just one more time
I cry out to Allah for mercy
Is physical pain masking a deeper and more profound pain within me of which I am unaware?
Is my inner pain so great and so intense that my brain is telling my body to experience physical pain instead so that I will not deal with these emotional issues?
I don't know the answers to these questions and neither do all the doctors I have visited.
I feel guilty
I feel remorse
I feel anger
I feel fear
And, of course, the pain persists.................
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| n/a |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 11:08:21
This topic is something that I find really interesting. The parent (especially the mother)/child relationship is something that affects all of us in different ways.
The thing that brings all of together on this site is that we have derived benefit from accepting that there are psychological causes for physical pain and that it is of further help to discuss issues that arise as we explore ideas that have helped us recover. If I read something that resonates with my own experience, I write what worked for me, perhaps forgetting sometimes that the circumstances surrounding another person's problem may well be completely different and my solution could be completely counter-productive for them.
I've thought a lot about what you say, miehnesor, and your post of the 19th has brought home something - namely - I related something that happened to you to something that sounds exactly like what happened to me. Repressed anger from way back, probably from infancy, in my case also - my mother was very unwell after my birth and I was taken care of by my father and grandmother in my early weeks.
So, and this is probably the teacher in me at work, my assumption was in my first reply to you that what worked for me would probably work for you as well.
However, it is obvious that your mother has a very different personality to that of my mother. Yours reacts positively to your need to discuss the issues that bother you, mine definitely would not. She has always needed to be looked after and would be devastated if I ever told her how I really feel.
One thing we do have in common, though - it does indeed feel great to have the physical release of experiencing strong emotions. I have had pain and stress just melt away - having a good cry is truly healing.
I would be interested to explore the idea of the inner-child, miehnesor. You bring up some points that I find very interesting - the idea of grieving for the child you were and not being angry with the child, rather embracing the child.
Do you know of any writers who explore this?
Very best wishes
Anne |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 08:32:40
Wow..
That sounds very similar to my own situation with my mom,from what I can gather in pieces from the individual information tidbits.
My Mom used to be a huge source of repressed rage...she was visiting the weekend I had the "final meltdown" that sent me to the book store to get HBP.
A relationship with a parent has a lot of different dynamics as Hilary pointed out....some "Loving" parents might smother and CAUSE TMS and some aloof parents might give someone the breathing room to escape TMS.I would identify with the "No loving parents" as My mother and I didn't become friends until adulthood.Post TMS adulthood.
My Mom left me alone with a babysitter for 3 months,the year after My father died...my brother and sister were sent away to camp...I was shooting hoops in the backyard and BLAM...I couldn't move my neck and was in the most excruciating spasm...had to wear a neck brace all summer.....full blown TMS at age 6
That was the first trip of dozens where she 'split' for a month or 6.
She herself was adopted and has her own set of issues.
But...she also was always there for me intellectually,gave me tons of freedom and never pushed me into anything...a double edged sword.
Now in adulthood,I can slowly talk to my Mom about this stuff...it would be cruel to dump it on her all at once.She herself has now come down with 'Hypertension'...right after I moved across country with her only two grandchildren....I told her to go get MBP and she was very receptive to it.
During the early part of my TMS recovery,I stayed Mad at her all the time...maybe necessarily so...I find now that as long as the awareness of the anger is somewhere at hand (in case of fire break glass) I can get along with her just fine,and even be helpful to her.
But there was definitely a long period where I was afraid to even talk to her lest I trigger a new episode.
-out
peace
Baseball65 |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 23:44:00
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
Hi Miehnesor
You have talked about your vaccine in infancy being at the root of your problem before. At the end of the day, the chances are that you will never find out for sure one way or the other on that one, so maybe it is not helpful to focus on the causes of your TMS so much now - maybe you should focus on the fact that nobody deliberately caused this, your folks did the best they could at the time. You know that they both loved you. We are all wise after the event. I know that I'd have done lots of things differently if I had the time over with my daughter and son.
Like you I did not experience emotions like other people seemd to do - it took a long time and a lot of thinking, discussing and reading to 'unlock' what had been supressed from childhood. You say that the only way out of this bind is to to be the champion of the childs emotions - it sounds to me that you are putting pressure on yourself that is not necessary by looking back too much - yes, I found it helpful to look into why I was the way I was and how it had resulted in physical pain - but once I'd done that, gradually I could move on to how I could get better.
My relationship with my mother could have become very difficult because in a way my angry inner-child blamed her. I kept that between myself, my husband and my therapist and in time the angry child settled down and I know and I mean really know, not just cognitively, but deep inside, that she did the best she could - she was a result of her upbringing also.
You, understandably, are focussed on how long it is taking you to make progress, but it could be the case that if you could forget about a time-scale for recovery, focus less on the causes of the problem and give yourself a chance to notice each little bit of progress you make. There are a lot of good books that helped me live 'mindfully', in the present. There's a link to Claire Weekes books in the resources section and the favourite of quite a few of us TMSers - Rick Carson's 'Taming Your Gremlin'.
Best wishes
Anne
I wanted to comment to each of your paragraphs separately but not sure exactly how to do this so read it with that intention.
Clearly what happened to me was unintentional wrt my folks. They did and do love me and I know that for sure. Also I should say that both my parents are excited that I've basically discovered the major root cause of my TMS symptoms. My mom has been asking me over and over again to get the rage out with her since it obviously helps me. I've done this a few times but, for obvious reasons, find it difficult and unpleasant to do-- hence the support group.
I'm done trying to figure out the source of my TMS. I know what it's purpose is. It's to prevent me from expressing anger to my mother and it happened in my early childhood. That is why expressing the anger relieves symptoms. Is there another way to get better other than trying to feel and express the anger?
I can assure you that my relationship with my mother has not suffered as a result of the work i've done with her. Actually we have gotten closer. But you bring up an important point here which is that I was not able to really get to my own hurt and anger as long as I was saying to myself that she did the best she could. I needed to sort of shift my way of thinking and start valuing the true feelings of my inner child self as being more important then being loyal to my parents. I remember a conversation I had with my mom years earlier where I said that I was kind of anger at my inner child for causing me physical symptoms. I remember her response was that I needed to not be angry with the child but embrace the child <that triggered some emotion> and all of his feelings. I gradually over time began to practice that attitude and then after a lot of time started to feel the childs true feelings.
I'm still in the middle of dealing with the repressed emotions and letting them out. It feels great physically when I can feel the emotions and the subsequent TMS relief. As long as I've got chronic TMS and i'm feeling the feelings I don't see the point in halting that process to replace it with work about how to live in the present (although I think I will be interested in that down the road when i'm (hopefully) where you are -- basically delivered from TMS). I'm convinced that TMS for me is the forgotten painful past of my childhood and it needs to be grieved.
There is no doubt that i've made huge progress wrt TMS over the last 9 months or so. If I can feel it I can heal it. I realize that i'm not the norm on this forum in this regard. I've never seen a single iota of TMS change by anything other then FEELING the feelings. Sarno points out that a small percentage of TMS sufferers have to actually feel the feelings to see change. I believe, although I can't prove, that it's a function of when in your life the trouble comes.
Thanks much AnneG! You have helped me a lot with your contribution. Please respond again if you agree or disagree
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/19/2005 : 09:18:16
I agree with AnneG. According to my recollection of Sarno, for the majority of sufferers, to be "cured" from TMS pain, it is not necessary to delve into the deep reaches of the psyche, but only to understand how the psychogenic process works--that repressed psychic rage causes harmless, transient, physical pain, that we should not be fearful of. |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/18/2005 : 12:04:35
Hi Miehnesor
You have talked about your vaccine in infancy being at the root of your problem before. At the end of the day, the chances are that you will never find out for sure one way or the other on that one, so maybe it is not helpful to focus on the causes of your TMS so much now - maybe you should focus on the fact that nobody deliberately caused this, your folks did the best they could at the time. You know that they both loved you. We are all wise after the event. I know that I'd have done lots of things differently if I had the time over with my daughter and son.
Like you I did not experience emotions like other people seemd to do - it took a long time and a lot of thinking, discussing and reading to 'unlock' what had been supressed from childhood. You say that the only way out of this bind is to to be the champion of the childs emotions - it sounds to me that you are putting pressure on yourself that is not necessary by looking back too much - yes, I found it helpful to look into why I was the way I was and how it had resulted in physical pain - but once I'd done that, gradually I could move on to how I could get better.
My relationship with my mother could have become very difficult because in a way my angry inner-child blamed her. I kept that between myself, my husband and my therapist and in time the angry child settled down and I know and I mean really know, not just cognitively, but deep inside, that she did the best she could - she was a result of her upbringing also.
You, understandably, are focussed on how long it is taking you to make progress, but it could be the case that if you could forget about a time-scale for recovery, focus less on the causes of the problem and give yourself a chance to notice each little bit of progress you make. There are a lot of good books that helped me live 'mindfully', in the present. There's a link to Claire Weekes books in the resources section and the favourite of quite a few of us TMSers - Rick Carson's 'Taming Your Gremlin'.
Best wishes
Anne
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| Albert |
Posted - 03/18/2005 : 09:46:41
There is more to it than I wrote. I can't remember all of the details, but they did consider what it means to be loved.
quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
I think that those Harvard doc statistics are incredibly simplistic. What exactly defines a "loving parent"? It's perfectly possible to have two parents who loved you wholeheartedly, protected and cared for you and also put enormous pressure on you.
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| Hilary |
Posted - 03/18/2005 : 04:01:43
I think that those Harvard doc statistics are incredibly simplistic. What exactly defines a "loving parent"? It's perfectly possible to have two parents who loved you wholeheartedly, protected and cared for you and also put enormous pressure on you. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 03/17/2005 : 21:17:36
quote:
Originally posted by Albert
[br
I don't know the details of your situation, but perhaps you can feel the anger for a while, but eventually don't let the same thing get you down over and over again. Look inside. You have the power.
The ironic thing is that I did have 2 loving parents (although both carried unresolved issues from their childhoods). My problem may be unique in that I had major trauma in infancy from a bad vaccine reaction which caused cognitive damage and caused me to shutdown emotionally at about 3 months old. My parents did not know, nor did anyone else that they consulted, that I had undergone a trauma and that there was psychological damage as a result. My mom knew something was wrong but didn't know what it was till I was in high school and then it was just by accident that she bumped into a book called "A shot in the dark" which explains how dangerous the DPT vaccine is and how the dangers have been minimized by the CDC and others to foward a "everybody get vaccinated" policy. So to a first order my parents did what they could and should not be blamed. That being said I believe that my mother could not handle the tough situation that she found herself because she was looking to me to get the love that she didn't get from her parents. The result was that she pulled away from me emotionally. This is probably the root cause of my TMS.
So from the child's perspective, he felt abandoned first by mom and then later on by dad (he pulled away for other reasons) and was angry about it but had to repress it. The result was that I was a pretty depressed little child. What I do remember, as I got older, is all the learning difficulties (first learning how to understand and comprehend speach, later on how to read) I gradually, with a lot of effort caught up and more or less recovered cognitively. But the childhood repressed emotions were never addressed. Looking back TMS really started for me in my teens. I'm 44 now.
After years of struggling with TMS symptoms but not feeling anything, I've become convinced that the only way out of this bind is to be the champion of the childs emotions so that it will be safe for the emotions to come out. About 9 months ago I finally started to feel some of these emotions of first fear and then later on rage.
Sarno talks about the rage generated in infancy as permanent. This is scary since he doesn't offer any advice for someone in my situation other then to seek psychotherapy. I've been doing that for almost 3 years now. I'm simply trying to follow the emotions and do what I need to do to reduce symptoms. |
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