| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/09/2013 : 10:21:57
Many medications can cause muscle pain – most notably antihypertensives and statins for cholesterol. Also previous use of fluroquinolone antibiotics even months after last use.
Psychiatric drugs – the benzodiazepines are the worst but they and antidepressants can create dozens of symptoms when tolerance is reached or they are discontinued. The withdrawal from them with muscle pain can take years.
Drugs used for major mental illness, mood stabilizers and antipsychotics can cause permanent muscle issues.Some of the old antidepressants can also have this effect.
Antihistamines are also problematic for muscle problems. I know one patient who took them for sleep for a year and wound up nearly crippled and unable to walk. When you block the neurotransmitter acetylcholine it interrupts the normal functioning of the central and peripheral nervous systems
Any drug that relaxes muscles can rebound with more pain and stiffness – this includes alcohol.Stimulants for ADHD and cocaine can also cause pain.
The fluroquinolones and statins can actually cause damage to the muscles and soft tissue.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| plum |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 15:53:59
quote:
Originally posted by gigalos
Maui Wowie, lol, never heard about that strain.
You are right about that it matters what you smoke, but as I studied (read: visited health forums :) ) this further and ruled out the quality of the weed (home-grown or grown by my beloved aunt with 40+ years of smoking experience, low-moderate THC levels), I think the bottomline is that it is just not a god-send herb for everyone. Can't buy Maui Wowie here in Holland sadly to see if you're right.
As I believe the theory about TMS, messing up my emotions further with cannabis just doesn't work for me. I am a happy non-smoker now. Take a big Maui Wowie hit for me though, Plum. 
More power to you.
It is an art form and one I rarely partake in these days but shall think of you next time I do. Mellow hugs from not-so far away. |
| gigalos |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 15:38:38
Maui Wowie, lol, never heard about that strain.
You are right about that it matters what you smoke, but as I studied (read: visited health forums :) ) this further and ruled out the quality of the weed (home-grown or grown by my beloved aunt with 40+ years of smoking experience, low-moderate THC levels), I think the bottomline is that it is just not a god-send herb for everyone. Can't buy Maui Wowie here in Holland sadly to see if you're right.
As I believe the theory about TMS, messing up my emotions further with cannabis just doesn't work for me. I am a happy non-smoker now. Take a big Maui Wowie hit for me though, Plum. |
| plum |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 13:47:20
Sorry but I think this is nonsense and the worst kind of scare-mongering and self-fulfilling prophecy rolled into one.
I'm bringing my boy off parkinsons meds and he's fine. You wouldn't believe the brain-rot horror stories that folk bandy around and I'd be a fool to invest in them.
Titration (or tit rations as I call it) is the order of the day but buying into the bunk of the pharmo companies certainly isn't. Use meds if you need them, don't let them use you.
Just another outfit at fears costume party. |
| plum |
Posted - 02/13/2013 : 13:33:41
quote:
Originally posted by gigalos
"Any drug that relaxes muscles can rebound with more pain and stiffness – this includes alcohol.Stimulants for ADHD and cocaine can also cause pain."
eh... I'm a bit confused here... Any drug that relaxes muscles? Is this the result of a medical study? Or did you learn this from experience?
Cannabis is a muscle relaxant, but I doubt that this effect is the reason for the pain that it can generate.
One and a half month ago I came of cannabis (muscle relaxant, mind-messer), as I suspected it to have something to do with my symptoms and because it didn't relax me any longer but instead made me more anxious. I joined a forum in which I found a lot of long term cannabis users that complain of sudden back aches, gastro intestinal problems and what not. The most extreme form is a condition called Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome, in which people throw up and have terrible stomach ache for hours or days on end. A lot of them see direct links with their use of cannabis. The more I read though, the more I suspect TMS to play a big part. Doctors almost never found anything wrong with these people, as they didn't find anything wrong with me. I don't understand the mechanism yet, but either the soothing factor of cannabis starts to wear down, it has to do with the anxiety-effect that it can give or it causes the 'fence' between conscious and unconscious to wear down and therefore the unconscious starts to ignite physical discomfort. As discomfort almost rears his ugly head the day after, it might have something to do with rage about the lack of THC. Or maybe I am totally on the wrong track here... perhaps someone can clarify this more, as I only just learned about TMS.
Depends on what you're smoking babe.
Skunk and other genetically modified rogues demolish the psyche.
Maui wowie however is a true food of the gods. |
| Cath |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 06:19:19
Catmac - thanks. I really want to come off this drug, and know it will be difficult. It has been helpful, in that it has reduced my anxiety about my symptoms, but my symptoms have changed significantly since I started using it 3 years ago. My neurologist told me that they weren't sure exactly how it works for neuropathic pain, but that it works in the brain and alters our perception of pain.
I hate feeling dependant on this drug, and just want to get back to my normal state, with or without pain. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 20:37:05
quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
The damage drugs do to the brain is not measurable by modern science. Having months to a year or longer withdrawal is common with a THC compound as it has altered Dopamaine and GABA...and who knows what else!!
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..."
If something is not measurable by modern science, how, then, is it objectively known or not known? Subjective analysis and anecdotal evidence is not a basis to form conclusion. If there are genetic predispositions to certain drugs and compounds, it is understandable, but generalizations are what lead the world into a lock box of thought and inflexibility, which, can lead to problems compounding themselves.
The human body is wonderfully adaptable and tolerant of many things, and some people -- I do not care what the purists or TMS template people insist-- do need something to calm their thoughts to allow them to understand what has happened to their bodies and work on their mind and their mind's reaction to anxiety. Dr. Sarno says himself, if you are in extreme pain, take something for it. All pain originates in the brain, and without a governor on the brain, the CNS can never have a chance to adjust.
Those who are insistent that drugs play no role in attempting to begin a cure to --let's call it what it is, anxiety, are demonstrating the same type of hard wire inflexibility that may have gotten them into trouble in the first place.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 17:28:35
I am in the process of withdrawal from a low dose of the sleeping
aid Zolpidem (Ambien). I was on it for several years and decided last year to start cutting back. Last week, since the EFT was working so well for me, I decided that now was the time to get off of it. I am having trouble sleeping and having some headaches in the evening (when my brain is expecting the drug). Only once so far have I had to take Tylenol. I am having some muscle cramps that may be related to this. I am still on a very low dose of an anti-depressant, that will be the next thing to go, but one at a time.
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| catmac |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 15:09:33
quote:
Originally posted by Cath
Thanks A1S. I really want to come off the meds, and had a suspicion they were responsible for the increased sensitivity. I am currently taking a massive dose of 2,400 mgs a day (4 x 600mgs), so it could take me a long time to titrate down successfully, but I think it's something I really have to put all my efforts into if I want the TMS work to be successful.
Hi Cath
I successfully came off Neurontin. I did it by reducing 100mg per week. I wasn't on as high a dose as yourself (1200mg). I know this could take you some time but that is ok. Slow and steady, I think is the way to go. I didnt start to struggle until I got down to my last 200mg and then I didnt want to let them go (all psychological as I didnt have any increase in physical pain).I was on the last 200mg for about 4-6 weeks before I finally let them go. I think Dr Zafarides did a really good post about coming off meds just a month or so ago. You can do it Cath, bit by bit. It is scary at times and I'm not saying I found it easy all the time. It took me about 4 months in total to come off them but I have never looked back. |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 14:54:11
The damage drugs do to the brain is not measurable by modern science. Having months to a year or longer withdrawal is common with a THC compound as it has altered Dopamaine and GABA...and who knows what else!!
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 13:18:18
Unless you are talking about a medication that will most likely save your life, the real issue with medications for most other non-life saving purposes is about weighing the risks verses the benefits. This is why it is so important to do your own research, or get information from a trusted source (which is not most doctors and certainly not the drug companies.) Otherwise, you can end up with a much worse problem or problems that you started with.
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| gigalos |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 11:55:56
"Any drug that relaxes muscles can rebound with more pain and stiffness – this includes alcohol.Stimulants for ADHD and cocaine can also cause pain."
eh... I'm a bit confused here... Any drug that relaxes muscles? Is this the result of a medical study? Or did you learn this from experience?
Cannabis is a muscle relaxant, but I doubt that this effect is the reason for the pain that it can generate.
One and a half month ago I came of cannabis (muscle relaxant, mind-messer), as I suspected it to have something to do with my symptoms and because it didn't relax me any longer but instead made me more anxious. I joined a forum in which I found a lot of long term cannabis users that complain of sudden back aches, gastro intestinal problems and what not. The most extreme form is a condition called Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome, in which people throw up and have terrible stomach ache for hours or days on end. A lot of them see direct links with their use of cannabis. The more I read though, the more I suspect TMS to play a big part. Doctors almost never found anything wrong with these people, as they didn't find anything wrong with me. I don't understand the mechanism yet, but either the soothing factor of cannabis starts to wear down, it has to do with the anxiety-effect that it can give or it causes the 'fence' between conscious and unconscious to wear down and therefore the unconscious starts to ignite physical discomfort. As discomfort almost rears his ugly head the day after, it might have something to do with rage about the lack of THC. Or maybe I am totally on the wrong track here... perhaps someone can clarify this more, as I only just learned about TMS.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 08:48:55
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
...If a person's mind is so anxious, I don't care how many times he is told that "the pain is benign", it will be lost, because the ruminating negative thoughts crowd out any other type of thinking and reasoning.
...not based on the individual patient, but on some statute passed by a brainless politician.
...they wanted to limit his amount of morphine ( he was days away from death), because they were afraid he would become addicted.
...and those who had no self control became addicted, and, as hard as it sounds, they cleared out the gene pool, or not, by succumbing or regaining control.
...those who need a short term boost (as long as they understand their circumstances), should not be denied.
GOOD POINTS! |
| Cath |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 08:19:13
Hi Birdie
Think Neurontin is different to Lyrica. The permitted maximim dose is 3,600 mgs per day, so I'm not taking the maximum. My neurologist would have given me more if I hadn't decided myself that 2,400 mgs was enough. It still doesn't eliminate the pain altogether, just numbs it a little. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 06:59:10
Be careful about generalizations.
The horror stories on forums on the internet are self-selected people, who if you read closely, have other obsessive traits, are still riddled with anxiety, and have not come to terms with what is bothering them. If they are not popping pills, it is alcohol, or weed.
Dr. Claire Weekes warns against the "snap out it crowd", which, in some cases, are those who generalize about medications. If a person's mind is so anxious, I don't care how many times he is told that "the pain is benign", it will be lost, because the ruminating negative thoughts crowd out any other type of thinking and reasoning.
True, some people, because of genetics, cannot handle medications, and that is separate thinking.
This kind of generalizing about medications for those who have real, structural pain, that can require opioids for some type of reasonable quality of life is the now the cause of the DEA scouring over a doctor's medical prescription file and dictating what can or cannot be prescribed, not based on the individual patient, but on some statute passed by a brainless politician.
When my father was dying of lung cancer, in a coma, yet in tremendous pain, obvious by labored breathing and facial contortions, we were told that they wanted to limit his amount of morphine ( he was days away from death), because they were afraid he would become addicted. That was in the late 80's, and this type of thinking has just grown with the government's stupid and worthless "war on drugs".
Until about one hundred years ago, most every drug was legal in the US-- and cocaine was an ingredient in Coca Cola-- and those who had no self control became addicted, and, as hard as it sounds, they cleared out the gene pool, or not, by succumbing or regaining control.
The mind has control over the Central Nervous System, but results are not immediate, and those who can get through drug free, God bless 'em, but those who need a short term boost (as long as they understand their circumstances), should not be denied.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| Birdie78 |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 06:58:53
Cath, 4 x 600 mg Lyrica? I thought the maximum permissible dose was around 600 mg!?!
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 06:27:20
Cath
Many of these meds prevent healing through a process called neuro-analgesia.
There are support forums for getting off these meds.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| Cath |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 04:18:20
Thanks A1S. I really want to come off the meds, and had a suspicion they were responsible for the increased sensitivity. I am currently taking a massive dose of 2,400 mgs a day (4 x 600mgs), so it could take me a long time to titrate down successfully, but I think it's something I really have to put all my efforts into if I want the TMS work to be successful. |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/10/2013 : 15:14:07
Doctors know about half they know about TMS in regards to these meds.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
| Birdie78 |
Posted - 02/10/2013 : 13:32:23
Ugh, I was on Antihistamines (the older ones) for 12 years every day as a sleep medication (I don't use the word "abuse", ha ha)...better I don't think about it!
I was also on Lyrica for 2 years and I agree with All1Spirit to titrate it down very, very slowly (went from 225 mg down to 0mg in 8 months and that was too fast for me). It was a great help for my anxiety but it increased my pain sensitivity although my pain doctor told me that was inpossible (she told me to titrate it down in one week because it does't cause problems). I am now off since August 12. No pain medications and no psychomedication at all. That's a great effort in my eyes because all kinds of medicatios have been like staple food for me since I was 18. It's terrible what I have done to my body...
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/10/2013 : 13:18:34
Neurontin was originally approved for seizure control. Then the drug manufacturer, Pfizer started indicating it for several off-label uses including pain when it gained Postherpetic neuralgia approval. It was never approved for any other pain control or other uses. The company was sued and it still being sued over their illegal marketing of the drug.
Reuters reported on March 25, 2010, that "Pfizer Inc violated federal racketeering law by improperly promoting the epilepsy drug Neurontin ... Under federal RICO law the penalty is automatically tripled, so the finding will cost Pfizer $141 million. More legal action is pending.
About your hypersensitivity to stimuli – yes it can cause it. It is a GABA agonist and GABA is the neurotransmitter that controls our reaction to stimuli and is the neuronal brake for the entire nervous system. Just like antidepressants, tranquilizers and pain medications they can cause the symptoms you are being treated for by a process of tolerance or neuro-adaptation.
If you decide to stop it you will need to do a very slow titration down. Possibly over 3 to 9 months depending on your dose/dutration and sensitivity.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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