| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 07:02:01
This is why therapists don’t do self-therapy and doctors don’t self-diagnose....we cant see our own stuff!!
So I can see a patients anxiety fears plain as day – a mole is skin cancer, a weak leg is MS. I never thought I was afraid of my 101 symptoms but I am getting to where I can see it...maybe?
I was aware last night when the truck backs up and they unload on me I do a major OH NO! Here it or they are again..... I also list them in my mind at times and there are scores of them.
I never considered that I worried but I am preoccupied with the symptoms...hell yes! I am damn near crippled and operating at 10% of where I used to be and I am tortured day and night.
I would really appreciate hearing how you worked through the fear of symptoms – what tools or techniques did you use. I am really sick and need help
Thanks for reading and responding |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 17:50:59
Thanks for the response, Alan. So far I am doing well. Right now, I don't have any pain, but am having more trouble sleeping because of sleep anxiety. I think I may be getting down into the real issues.
I will keep your friend in mind if I need him. I am going to give it a little more time.
|
| alangordon |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 15:18:26
For some people, the pain will bounce around for a bit and when it isn't reinforced, will fade away. For some, it will continue bouncing around until the underlying issues are addressed. There's a great TMS therapist I work with who specializes in skype therapy for folks in areas devoid of TMS pracitioners (dereksapico@yahoo.com). If you find that symptoms continue to pop up in different places, you can take it as your body's way of letting you know that something needs to psychologically be addressed (this of course isn't its actual physiological purpose, but can be interpreted that way.) |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/05/2013 : 18:13:23
Alan, your article was very helpful for me. Thank-you.
I recently overcame my pain by just letting it BE. It was really hard, but I just let it BE and finally succeeded at least for now. When it came, I refused to give it a story, didn't argue with it, just pretty much ignored it. I also followed Ace's Keys which helped me to stop doing the things that were leading to the pain, such as being to intense, rushed all the time, etc. My personality is fear based because of childhood trauma.
About a month after the pain left (in my back, buttocks and legs)I was doing water aerobics and had a bad cramp in my foot. I just knew this was another manifestation of TMS. So of course, my foot began to hurt every day, but it was not too bad. I handled it the same way and now it is mostly gone, just a hint here and there. But I will not be fearful of it. A couple days after that, I had an episode of gastric reflux which I heard can be a symptom of TMS too. I have not had this in a year. (It all went away after my parathyroid surgery last September) I was well checked medically and I should not have this. I suspect this is another symptom. How long do you think this symptom chasing could go on? Do you think the strategy will give up if I don't give it what it wants, fear and attention? I am trying to work on the underlying emotional issues, but it is hard because I live in Panama (we retired here) and I have no access to therapy. Will the strategy keep trying until it can come up with something that I am really afraid of? |
| alangordon |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 21:59:59
Hi All1Spirit,
Often the TMS symptoms themselves aren’t serving as a distraction from painful unconscious emotions, it’s the fear and preoccupation around the pain that is serving as this distraction.
That’s the purpose of the pain in many cases, to generate fear. It’s for this reason that runners often get leg pain and screenwriters often get wrist pain (and not the other way around.) It’s for this reason that pain often manifests in a place where you know you’re structurally vulnerable. And it’s for this reason that some TMSers can eliminate their symptoms simply by reading one of Dr. Sarno’s books (as it can neutralize the fear associated with the pain).
Consequently, these pain-themed fear thoughts are actually serving to reinforce the pain.
Here's an article I wrote awhile back expanding on this:
http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Breaking_the_Pain_Cycle,_by_Alan_Gordon,_LCSW
And here is an mp3 of a mini-session that discusses how these fear thoughts originated, and what you can do to stand up to them:
http://tmswiki.org/tmp/annie.mp3
Good luck
Alan
|
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 20:50:06
Maybe that's why there is hair loss and vision problems? I think if you don't fix this intensity, it will catch up with you. However I respect your opinion and await for you to think about it and consult your teachers. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 20:06:48
Ace1, You are a very good debater and what you've said make lots of sense. But I have followed this "fear" theory for so long and I have saw it helped so many overcame the terrible mindbody condition, myself included, it is very difficult for me to think differently just yet.
I have to take some time out to think of a respond to your theory.  Maybe I have to make some call and consult with some of my teachers.
Oh! and I have to correct you about this: I am a very intense person. I was and I still am. I do most things like there is no tomorrow. I eat fast, talk fast, walk fast, drive fast... I rush everywhere, I rush to finish project, I rush to work, to parties. I surf the channel until my wife screamed at me. I want to see all of Thailand in one week.... and I am free from symptoms for years.
I'm just at peace with myself. I'm just more acceptance with life. I'm just contented with what I have. I'm just changed my perception about the difficulties life handed me. I'm just treasure the great relationships I'm having with others. I'm just thankful for what God giving me. My focus is on happiness and I truely believe I am healthy. I just hate FEAR.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 19:48:24
Good point balto about tiger woods. I think it catches up at some breaking point when the intensity reaches a certain point. A lot of times people who are intense in daily normal life are able to get away with it till they hit a major life crisis at which point the intensity reaches a peak and then the symptoms start. If the person was not so intense in the first place, the major life event would probably not caused symptoms. In some cases when the major life event subsides, then the person is still stuck with the fear of symptoms which when then get over this they become "cured". However in the hard to cure cases, the intensity became such a habit and the intensity became so strong because the symptoms made their bad habits worse. In my Disney world experience, I know 100% that is is related to that I was too excited for my own good, bc if I go about it the way I did before, i can bring back my symptoms. I really didn't fear that I wasnt going to ride all the rides I just really wanted to, more than what is healthy. It's also was not the speed of how I was doing things or conditioning to it, but just my intense urge to be that way. I can now do something fast and not have the urge and thus have no symptoms. There is no reason to feel uncomfortable debating with me, I really do value your opinion and this kind of talk brings the truth to the light which will help others really heal. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 19:28:22
Ace1, I really appreciate you saying you value my opinion. I do feel very uncomfortable debating with people who are smarter and have much higher education than I.
About that Disney world scenario, here is my interpretation on what happened:
You rushed to get on most of the ride because you "fear" you don't get to do all the rides you want. You fear you don't have enough time to do as many rides as you would like. And that somehow trigger the symptoms. Your brain "thought" that you are in some kind of danger and produced the symptoms that matched your state of mind.
Or: your body is "conditioned" to produce symptoms when you are moving at a faster pace than you normally would. Once you speed up or do thing in a hurry, the body is conditioned to produce symptoms. Maybe in the past you had a symptoms attack while you were hurry doing something and now you body just associate "hurry", "rush", "speed", "intense" with danger and it produced the "appropriate" symptoms. It is just like my morning coffee. I have symptoms when I drink coffee, can I blame coffee as the cause of my symptoms?
Also, intensity alone I think is not enough to explain why some (most) people only get tms/anxiety after some traumatic events or some very stressful period in their life? I doubt that they would get tms if those event didn't happened. Tiger Wood live a pretty intensed life style in my opinion. But he didn't complain about back pain or wrist pain until he got caught and went through a divorce.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 18:56:59
quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
Balto
I knew Dr. Weekes and one problem I had with her work is the float through process. This works for panic but my symptoms are constant and there is no time line to float through.
I dont think I fear the symptoms as much as over pay attention to them because they are so severe and disabling.
Hi all1spirit, We all healed differently, one day you will find something, some method that click with you and you will heal, just spend sometime here reading up on stories of people who have healed and maybe you will find something that will help.
There are many school of thoughts when it come to mindbody syndrome. Dr Sarno taught that some emotions in our subconcious caused our pain symptoms, but we don't need to know what that is. We just need to understand the symptoms is not dangerous, it is benign, be active, live your life as normal as possible... then you will heal.
Dr Herbert Benson promote the practice of meditation. He did lot of research on this subject and had prove it's beneficial effect. If you keep practice it and "master" this skill, if you can clear your mind at will and fill it with neutral or peaceful thoughts, eventually the pain will subside and leave. This need practice, devotion, and lots of time at it for it to work.
Dr Weekes taught that we are bewilder, confuse, and overly sensitive. We fear what the symptoms would do to us, we think of the worse and that is why we're in pain. If you can stop worry about your health, if you can stop asking "what if", if you can just accept your condition and relax... you will heal. (yes, Easier said than done).
Some people recommend journaling (positive journaling). I personally don't find this method helpful for me, but many people have found tremendous help with it. It suppose to expose you to all that emotions/events that bothered you. You can see it and deal with it in your safe zone. You have more control, you are in a more calm state of mind, so you can deal with it effectively and either write it off, forgive, forget, scream, punching bag, then move on... That suppose to burn off the hatred, the anger inside you and calm you down, and hopefully heal you.
Some people just pray. They came to the point that they just completely give up and handed all their problem to Christ. They completely trust that God will save them and solve their problem, take away their pain,... This require complete trust in God. Many will heal. (Read the story of Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian Science.)
There are many many more methods, many "ways" to heal, and they will all heal in some way to some degree. The hard part is to pick one that click with you. One that would take away your doubt. Doubt is what keep many from healing.
Ultimately in the end, if you can somehow achieve a belief that you are healthy and strong and "normal", then you will.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 18:45:17
Dear balto while I agree that being in a rush or straining is a lot of time associated with fear of what will happen if the person is not efficient etc. Let me give you a real scenario in myself where fear was not involved at all. If I went to Disney world with my kids, I would get pain. The reason was because I was so excited to do all the rides I wanted to hurry and get started to get the most out of my day. I had no fear just excitement about something good, however the strain was so enormous that it let me to pain. I have a different approach now and I don't get those symptoms. This shows you how intense I was and how I wanted to do more than I could humanity do. This became my habit. Even though I did not fear my symptoms, I still had them because of this. Remember fear is part of the syndrome and is in itself equivalent to the pain etc. When you take care of the psychological need, the fear and the symptoms subside. Now I do agree that there are some where the fear of the symptoms is really the only problem and once they overcome this they will be better. I suspect however that for the majority on this forum they are too strained/ intense for that to be the sole reason. I value your opinion, and I look forward to anything else you think on the matter. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 18:00:04
I also want to post a few quotes from Jesus Christ and the Buddha, two of the most respected teacher in the mindbody medicine field. The two that have save my life countless time. Hope you like it:
The following quotes from the Buddha pretty much will solve all of our mindbody trouble:
“The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed.”
“All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become.”
“You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.”
“Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.”
“There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.”
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.”
----------------------------------------------------------------
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.
Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.
For God gave us not a spirit of fearfulness; but of power and love and discipline.
So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can Man do to me?"
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened."
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, ""Abba," Father."
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 17:32:04
Balto
I knew Dr. Weekes and one problem I had with her work is the float through process. This works for panic but my symptoms are constant and there is no time line to float through.
I dont think I fear the symptoms as much as over pay attention to them because they are so severe and disabling. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 17:12:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Dear Balto, while overcoming the fear of symptoms is sufficient for some, it is not enough for people with severe cases, like I was when I first started. I really had NO fear of symptoms bc I was a doctor and I truly understood. However, my pain was just the same. It has to do with intensity and you do not seem like a very intense person (you can correct me if im wrong), so I dont think it applied to you, which maybe why overcoming fear for you was enough. However in A1S case, I think intensity does apply (like it did for myself) and I doubt removing the fear alone would be suffiecent.
Dear Ace1, My thought on intensity and strain and doing thing in a hurry is they are also human conditions that were caused by fear. I really think fear is at the root cause of many if not all of our mindbody symptoms (conditions). We rushed through life, we did things in a hurry because of fear. We fear we're going to be late for work, we fear we don't have enough time to do this to do that, we fear the steak is going to burn, we fear we don't have enough time for our kid, finish a project, we fear we have to sit here a listen to this friend's boring talk,.... Those fears created the urge to be hurry, to rush. Over time our behavior changed and we live life in an intense state and we "strained".
Mom and dad rush their kid to finish the homework, finish that brocolli, run faster in the baseball game, hurry up and say what you want to say.... The kids complied because of fear, they want to please us.
Our society promote this fear. Fast food restaurants are everywhere, TV dinners have record sale every years. Technology stuffs only sale if they can help us to thing faster, more productive... We have to be fast, productive, we have to work long hours, we have to be employee of the month. Even while on vacation. We rush from landmark to landmard fearing we don't get to see them all, fearing our vacation is too short, got to see them all, do them all...
If you come to Thailand or nicaragua you will see the pace of life is much slower. People talk slower, eat slower, do thing slower. They take their time to think. They take their time to do everything. People in the countryside is much slower than people in the city... people just fill with fear. We fear we don't get it done on time...
You are very right to say that removing the fear alone would be suffiecent. But I believe if we can remove fear we can reduce the severity of our tms/anxiety symptoms 80%. The rest is mostly conditioning, "strain", "rush", "intense", tensing,... and I think mindpower technique, affirmation, living in the Now, meditation, change our perception about life... will take care of that.
As a medical doctor you know your symptoms is not dangerous enough to kill you or disable you so you have no fear of it, but for the rest of us, atleast the people that I've known and worked with, I usually see that fear is the main reason their symptoms don't go away. And I also see that once you can somehow elliminate their fear of the symptoms, the symptoms always disappear or greatly reduced. Doctor Claire Weekes have cured or helped thousand of people get well by teaching them to get over their fear of their symptoms. I personally experience the result using her method myself, that is why I am promoting it.
Many people followed the teaching of doctor Sarno and cured themself of their symptoms, I think they unconciously elliminated their fear of their symptoms and get well. They believe in Doctor Sarno's diagnosis and believe that their symptoms are benign and not dangerous. Once they achieve that belief they feel they're no longer in any danger so their fear just melt away and they got well.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 11:09:41
I agree with Ace. Intensity is something I have a real problem with also. Two years ago, after reading Sarno's books, I thought I was cured. I had succeeded in overcoming the fear of the symptoms and that seemed to work for awhile. But my symptoms came back worse later. This time I have had to realize my tendency to being hyped-up, mental and physical strain and intensity. Although, my pain is just about gone, I struggle daily with these issues. At least now I usually realize when I am doing it. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 10:57:12
Dear Balto, while overcoming the fear of symptoms is sufficient for some, it is not enough for people with severe cases, like I was when I first started. I really had NO fear of symptoms bc I was a doctor and I truly understood. However, my pain was just the same. It has to do with intensity and you do not seem like a very intense person (you can correct me if im wrong), so I dont think it applied to you, which maybe why overcoming fear for you was enough. However in A1S case, I think intensity does apply (like it did for myself) and I doubt removing the fear alone would be suffiecent. |
| All1Spirit |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 09:03:51
Hi Tom
I have read the first Sarno book and ordered the latest. There are no TMS practioners in my area |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 08:17:43
quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
I would really appreciate hearing how you worked through the fear of symptoms – what tools or techniques did you use. I am really sick and need help
Thanks for reading and responding
Hi A1S, I've read your posts and replied with a few basic TMS questions, have you seen them? Sorry, can't help you much without some basic info about your TMS knowledge.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| Cath |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 07:30:55
Hi All1Spirit - I am a fibro sufferer, amongst many other symptoms. I can walk and do many household chores, and to look at me you wouldn't think I had a problem. I have been a keen runner in the past and also trained as a fitness instructor, so like yourself have enjoyed being very physically fit for many years. I can't do any vigorous exercise anymore, but have made myself keep active no matter what the consequence day in day out. I try to keep my mind distracted from thinking about the symptoms, because dwelling on them is the worst thing you can do. I know how hard this is when your pain is at the forefront of your mind for most of the time, but it is possible.
I draw and read to distract myself. Drawing is best because I can lose myself in a project. The pain is still there, but your mind is occupied on something else, so can't think too hard about what's hurting.
You also need to think about what soothes your body and your mind, and indulge yourself in this for some part of the day. I take a hot mineral bath morning and night and really let myself relax into it. Fill your day with activities that distract amd soothe. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/04/2013 : 07:15:59
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7920
This article may help.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
|
|
