| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mariesaccount |
Posted - 01/28/2013 : 17:58:27
Sorry this isn't as brief as I'd like....
As a kid, I begged my mother for piano lessons. She refused, as she did with pretty much all such requests to further our interests. If it wasn't something she wanted to deal with (and frankly, outside of church, that was everything), we didn't get to do it. I recall the school asking her to place me in a program for gifted artists (at a time when these programs were very rare), but she didn't want to deal with driving me once a week, so I lost that opportunity. My interest in music was strong enough that I actually made a good living writing about it for a couple decades, but my secret shame was that I didn't know how to play the instrument I wrote about.
Forty years later, I decided to try piano lessons with my youngest. I also decided I would take them myself and fulfill this long-held dream. Things progressed well but very slowly for four months, which was fine--with three kids and a job, I had no goal other than finally learning to play.
This fall, my mother came down to visit for a couple weeks. She had been diagnosed with RA (runs in the family) and was in worse shape than I expected. When she left, my DH said that we'd better start looking into moving her down here and finding housing, etc. This incited a rage in me that I'd suppressed for a long time. After a nasty divorce, my mother fell apart and I was basically left to raise myself. I dealt with all sorts of situations that were not developmentally appropriate for a young girl, but I prided myself on "toughing it out," doing it on my own, and not owing anything to anyone. It wasn't until I was in therapy in my 30s (for an entirely different matter) that I was told role reversal between parent and child was not healthy and had obviously impacted my relationships and life in adulthood. So...to now be told by DH that I should take care of the mother who could not care for me--at the same time I'm raising my young children in what I hope is a healthy way--brought all sorts of rage and stress to the surface.
Around this time, I started having pains in my hands. First the thumbs, then the wrists, then up and down my arms. It comes and goes. My technique was NOT very good, and I'm trying to unlearn bad habits. Still, my piano teacher doesn't understand the source of some of these pains; they don't seem to correspond to how I play. He is sure that tension is a big part of it. Unfortunately, I'm now so afraid that I've ruined my hands (especially, that I may have RA like my mother) that just thinking of the piano brings on fear. I've continued to practice for the most part, but to a far lesser extent. In my darker moments, I feel as though the opportunity to play is once again being taken away.
I'd like to believe this is TMS. I was cured of debilitating back pain 20 years ago from Sarno's book, and I believe in it so strongly that I've never had so much as a backache since--it's like my mind knows I won't accept any tricks in that part of my body. But for some reason, I have trouble accepting the same ideas when it comes to my hands.
I know this is rambling, but I'd appreciate any insight. Part of me feels I should be tested for RA, but I believe the criteria are symptoms and inflammation, both of which could be brought on by TMS. |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| njoy |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 17:32:57
Since this thread has come to the top I'm going to comment. I do have a way of hijacking a thread and must try harder. It's just that too often someone triggers me with a good story that reminds me of an experience of my own and my judgment goes out the window. I hope marie sorts it out and returns -- as tt so eloquently put it, where else is there to go?
I can't say sorry because I'm not very. How's that for progress? 
I do wish her well, though.
*****
"It's worth considering that tms is not a treatment but rather an unfolding of the self, and a way of living as an emotionally aware and engaged soul." Plum |
| gailnyc |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 16:46:56
quote:
Originally posted by mariesaccount
I'd like to believe this is TMS. I was cured of debilitating back pain 20 years ago from Sarno's book, and I believe in it so strongly that I've never had so much as a backache since--it's like my mind knows I won't accept any tricks in that part of my body. But for some reason, I have trouble accepting the same ideas when it comes to my hands.
Mariesaccount,
I don't know if you're still checking in here, but I just want to say I had exactly the same experience. I was aware of TMS and since I became aware of it I have not had any more severe back problems. So when I developed a problem in my foot last summer, I found it hard to believe it was TMS. But doctor after doctor could find nothing wrong (or gave me a diagnosis that turned out to be wrong) and finally I started to accept it might be TMS in January.
I wonder how you are and if you did decide to go to a doctor after all.
Gail |
| art |
Posted - 02/03/2013 : 10:53:31
OP, if you're getting this upset over a highjacked thead, I'd seriously consider the possibility that you're not dealing well with life in general. If so, you're in the right place. |
| plum |
Posted - 02/03/2013 : 09:28:31
Mariesaccount, I sent you mail. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/03/2013 : 09:01:42
Hi MA, Welcome to the internet, you get what you pay for, even Peanut's charged a nickle for counciling or was it Lucy? If you stick around I'll try to remember to get back to you later, I gotta' get to Pete's for a coffee and then to my service practice. I see you got a couple of answers from SteveO and he's the PRO here--that's worth a few hundred bucks right there. If you "search" above RA you will find lots's of references to it and my experience at the fat farm in Tuscon during Arthritis Week.
So if you leave here--where you gonna' go? No one comes here first. If you're looking for support the diabetic cat forum was pretty good for that for me--but $30,000 later my cat still died. You gotta' admit Njoy'a drama was pretty good and we can thank you for starting this thread and making it happen. The internet is like going to a bar and telling your story to a complete drunken stranger--you get what you pay for in this life. If you stick around I'll try to remmber to get back to you--but it's SUper Bowl Sunday--go Niner's!!! I have big plans for the game, I'm gonna' drink one Long Island Ice Tea per quarter, after that alll bets are off.
See Ya later--maybe, if I 'm not in jail or dead in the pool. I'll include my sig for ya', there's a lot of good TMS info there in the meantime for ya'
Cheers, GO NINERS!
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/03/2013 : 08:30:24
Mariesaccount, I am so sorry if I was one of the ones who hijacked your thread. I initially reported my story because I felt that it was basically the same type of family "issues" as yours and my response to you was to be an example of the same type of thing that Steve O is talking about. My response was intended to be a response to both you and Steve. At that point, others started reporting the same type of thing. You are also free to ignore reply posts that are off topic and pull back to the topic of the original thread. I am sorry if I offended you.
That said, I never expect to receive personal psychological counselling here - just to relate with others having the same TMS issues. I figure that is my own responsibility and I need to pay for it. |
| mariesaccount |
Posted - 02/03/2013 : 08:06:38
I'm new here and was just going to bow out gracefully, but considering one focus of this forum--repressed anger--I think it would be counterproductive for me to do so.
Before I leave, I just want to point out that I revealed to this group matters so private that my husband doesn't even know them all. I could have gone deeper but am very glad I did not. I got two very helpful responses from one individual. But in the meantime, my thread was hijacked by several posters who didn't even remotely refer to the original topic. Imagine my disappointment when I checked each day looking for help, just to find that my original post was long lost. Really, how hard is it to start a new topic?
It's clear that many of us have spent a great deal of our lives feeling "not listened to," whether through self-protection or from those with whom we associate. I hope in the future that every reader will consider that before they formulate their replies to a thread.
Good luck to you all. |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 02/02/2013 : 20:43:08
So glad things turned out ok
|
| njoy |
Posted - 02/02/2013 : 15:14:45
Thanks for the votes (although I feel guilty about what amounts to an attempt to hijack the thread -- oops).
The way it worked out was SO telling. Here's the sequence:
I suggested I didn't want to go
Hubby said, "(sigh) I'll be fine (sigh)"
I quickly developed an illness (no faking, I really did, quite a nasty one)
I decided that was tms bs
I decided to go
The so-called illness promptly vanished
Our friend cancelled - turns out he didn't want to come to town and was feeling pushed!
My husband thought he/we "should" go out there anyway
I said, "Have fun but I'm not up to going."
He "strained" his sore arm (grating a potato for breakfast hashbrowns!) and cancelled the trip.
LOL
Obviously, even with good intentions, we have a tough time balancing the various aspects of human nature (ex: social behavior vs personal desires/imperatives).
I still think I wimped out but it turned out okay. Pushing 70, I seldom do what I really don't want to. I feel guilty about lying (dissembling, faking it) but is that really worse than being blunt? Anyway, I do both. That's the reality. |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 16:28:38
njoy - I am curious how this plays out also, I am so sorry for the difficult situation you find yourself in. I really can't say what I would do. I guess we all need to do what we feel is best for everybody.
Plum - I really like your screen name, it fits you perfectly. Thank-you for the moral support and kind words. I feel so wonderful having people to talk to on this board. It has made a huge difference.
|
| plum |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 15:58:13
chickenbone,
sweetheart, I admire your courage both in life and in sharing your story. I wish I could make it all ok, render every day from now a walk in afternoon sunshine, but maybe that's not so far away. You're a soulful woman, light and shade, guilt and shame are shadows dancing on your path. The greatest spiritual advice I ever received was **** it. That covers most bases. With love and an indigo smile. |
| plum |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 15:44:17
Tom, you are such a devil.
njoy, I vote don't go too.
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 07:36:16
quote:
Originally posted by njoy
...My husband has a pain in his arm (pure TMS but he's doesn't believe in Sarno although it works for him when he tries it)
...2. I don't want to and said so.
...4. Now, a heavy guilt trip hangs in the air while I'm writing this.
...Or will I be a "baddist" (one d?) and just say no? Possible for the first time in my life?
...The reality is that my husband wouldn't do it for me or anyone else. UNLESS HE WANTED TO. Because he says "something done with resentment just causes trouble"
...So, that leaves me to schlepp the wood while he sits around in front of the fire enjoying his weekend.
Dying to find out how this plays out. I VOTE YOU DON'T GO! Make up an excuse like you have a headache--or--TMS--or PMS. My vote is let him go on his own. The best thing for his TMS/arm would be to carry the wood himself helping decondition his TMS/condition. You will feel better for standing your ground--what's the worst thing that will happen--the situation will precipitate a divorce? Doubtful, but would that be so bad either--can he afford to pay alimony?
G'luck, I'm rootin' for ya'!
tt/lsmft |
| mariesaccount |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 07:02:45
Steve, thank you for this well-thought-out and generous response. I never associated PPD with TMS, but it makes sense--I know I felt horrible guilt over "not knowing" how to care for a newborn. I never had a moment of PPD with my other babies, and of course by then I was completely confident in my ability to care for them.
I'm going to print out your responses and read them til it all sinks in.
Thanks again. |
| njoy |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 20:43:59
Funny, but I am going through something similar at this exact time. My husband has a pain in his arm (pure TMS but he's doesn't believe in Sarno although it works for him when he tries it) and has promised to mind the farm for a friend in the country over the weekend (long story, but suffice to say he owes this guy) while the friend goes to town. This was not the friend's request, hubby offered.
So, then hubby asked our daughter (who was here visiting because she is having serious troubles of her own) if she would go with him and carry wood for the fire. She agreed but as soon as he went outside for a smoke she started having a panic attack because there is NO WAY she could spend two nights away from her home, hauling wood for her dear old dad (another long story, just trust me on this).
So we decided I should break the news to him (she wouldn't) and here's where it is, now:
1. He wants me to come and haul the wood (it's like -30 out there!!).
2. I don't want to and said so.
3. But some part of me thinks I "should".
4. I feel guilty and said, "I'll think about it".
5. I suggested he cancel on his friend.
6. He refuses.
4. Now, a heavy guilt trip hangs in the air while I'm writing this.
Will I cave and spend a miserable, cold weekend in what amounts to a trapper's cabin doing a favor for someone who didn't ask for a favor? Or will I be a "baddist" (one d?) and just say no? Possible for the first time in my life?
All this unfolded just now.The reality is that my husband wouldn't do it for me or anyone else. UNLESS HE WANTED TO. Because he says "something done with resentment just causes trouble" which I think is true, most of the time. Obviously, he actually wants to go out there but he doesn't want to carry the wood because he believes (says he believes) it will "set back" the healing of his arm by 3 months. You can bet it will, too.
So, that leaves me to schlepp the wood while he sits around in front of the fire enjoying his weekend.
Such is life with TMS. Wish me luck. Betcha 2-1 that I cave. |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 18:50:23
You are so right, Steve. I have been doing psychological digging myself. Fortunately, I am making progress. My pain is considerably less. I suffered some abuse as a child by a babysitter and an alcoholic father, so did my sister. Anyway, when I was 21, I decided to leave home for good. At the time, I was in college in my hometown and my brother and younger sister were away at college. I was the only one at home to be with my Mother to protect her emotionally from my father and to be with her. My Mother took it horribly when I left home even though I tried my best to have an adult relationship with her. It was either "come home" or else. However, as time went on, I developed a better relationship with her. She did a lot of damage to my reputation in my hometown and with my other relatives. My Grandmother, who I really loved, never spoke to me after that. In the meantime, my sister blamed me for all the mischief in the family. I was never close to my sister and never really liked her. She was emotionally manipulative like my Mother. My Mother died 9 years after I left home and I believe my sister blamed me for her death. She never said so to my face, but she complained about me for over 30 years to all of her husband's family. It came back to me more than once. In spite of this, we tried to keep up a decent relationship. We only saw each other about every 5 years. My sister became a raging alcoholic. In 2009, I received news from my brother that my sister and brother-in-law had gone on a drinking binge that lasted for at least 5 days. My brother-in-law had been diagnosed with cancer 4 years previously. The upshot was that my sister was in intensive care and not expected to live. She did survive another 10 months and stopped drinking. She was able to salvage her relationship somewhat with her children. She died in 2010. I never went to see her and I did not go to her funeral. My husband, who is a doctor and is very supportive, considered my sister completely toxic and did not want to visit her or go to the funeral. I felt that I could not go without him because I did not feel either physically or emotionally safe. I did not want to put my husband through the ordeal because I love him so much. My brother-in-law died a year later.
I think you can probably imagine the fight in my mind between "I should" and "I don't give a dam". I think this is the reason for my latest bout with TMS, the guilt and shame. I think I have finally settled upon something in between, but a lot closer to "I don't give a damm". It has taken all the strength I can muster to get through this. To add some humor, my husband tells me often "don't try to get in touch with false emotions" meaning love for my sister, which I never had. I only felt sorry for her. |
| SteveO |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 14:50:43
Yes, MariesAccount,
After a hundred years of studying people in psychology many of our infirmities appear to come down to this shame or guilt--and separation anxiety for certain. It is a powerful driver because our biggest fear is isolation, and rejection, which shame often initiates. Guilt of course is what divides the mind in conflict. For every wish to be good there is a wish to not be.
The guilt I'm speaking of you don't feel. If you remember from Dr. Sarno, "This is where tension often comes from: the battle that goes on in the subconscious part of the mind between the "should" and the "don't give a damn.".... One of the worst aspects of TMS is that the process seems self-generating. J. Sarno, Mind Over Back Pain, p. 54.
There is a part of us that does not care at all. This is the shadow-self. The more we deny it, the more power it has over us. That's why Carl Jung said, "what we resist, persists." If we deny that we possess these various aspects of shadow they then grow and manifest in even more odd ways, odd behavior, and also pain.
Let's say, however, that you are a true saint, and that you love taking care of your mother without resentment of the new demands placed on you. Then your pain is coming from separation rage of her future loss. This is the greatest rage because it reminds us of helplessness, and of course isolation.
However, in denying that there is anger, resentment, or guilt, or separation anxiety, this only fires the TMS because TMS is from a lack of expression of truth. The truth sets you free.
It's my own opinion that shame and guilt are the drivers that lead to obsessive traits that lead to anger; from observation, a posteriori.
Your PPD shows you have TMS tendencies and cortisone does not relieve TMS so you were subject to the placebo response as your belief healed you. Your brain fooled you once, shame on it, fool you twice, shame on you. There's that word shame again like a plague.
Dig into your mind and sense the new demands, resentment, etc... See what is not visible. Hear what makes no sound. It's all beneath what you can sense, so get your psychological shovel out and start digging.
Good luck, I enjoyed your piano story, do you see where shame lives?
It reminds me of the former pro football player Dexter Manley who graduated from Oklahoma University and played in the NFL for years. A time came in his life that he broke down and admitted that he never learned how to read. His lawyer taught him to sign his name on contracts but he never knew what was in them. Oklahoma passed him through classes without learning how to read. It was his shame that made him cry, and the light of truth healed his heart.
Steve
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| mariesaccount |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 09:15:36
Thank you for this thoughtful reply. My hands are my Achilles heel, so to speak--I had similar problems when my first son was born and I had PPD plus problems in my marriage. I could barely pick him up. After six months I got a cortisone shot in desperation, and the pain went away by the time I got back to the parking lot and never returned until now, 10 years later. I now suspect that was TMS, too, since I was "cured" so suddenly.
I'm confused why you mention guilt, however. I feel little guilt over not wanting to fix my mother's problems yet again (especially since she will irrationally fight me at every turn). I'm mostly angry. But are you saying the guilt is subconscious and therefore is actually the source of the problem? |
| SteveO |
Posted - 01/28/2013 : 19:28:12
I've seen many stories like yours. They heal from back pain and years later they get pain in another area. It's just TMS re-surfacing in the area where the guilt has decided to pool and to land.
You said that you're having trouble "accepting the same ideas when it comes to your hands." But that's what your brain wants you to do, to "not believe." That's the genius of the brain, and why Dr. Sarno did such a great job in identifying the process.
The brain scans until it finds an area that you fear, or that you believe may be a "real problem"...and there it stays. If you don't believe you have a real problem there it will shift again to another area, constantly scanning like a predator to eventually find an area that you have a doubt....and there it stays...it now has you. JAWS music begins here.
But your brain wants to have doubt there because it needs to believe you have a real problem there because the guilt behind it is too powerful for you to face.
So your brain does you the favor by thinking you have RA, or tendonitis, etc...whatever....if you doubt, then your emotions are protected.
Your pain is your way of controlling your life, a life that now feels out of control. It grounds you to your body in "bodylock."
The key that it's TMS is that you had it before, and so you already have the ingredients for the TMS soup. The main ingredient is guilt/shame.
Steve |
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