| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 05:54:23
Good morning all,
I went to a therapist yesterday with a view to un-surfacing some issues that may be contributing to my flare-ups. He is very open to pyscho-somatic ailments and the role of stress in human health, BUT he wants me to investigate fibromyalgia and report back to him regarding what I found. Yes, I number of doctors have tried to place this label on me and up until now I have resisted it having read what Dr. Sarno says about it as well as Dr. Nancy Selfridge. (see: http://booksthatteach.com/books/fibro.htm)
The therapist also wants me to report back to him regarding major and minor stressors in my life. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 12:35:15
quote:
Originally posted by Dr James Alexander
tennis tom- one of your earlier statements was that you are amazed at how uninterested/uninformed most psychotherapists are about TMS. This is clearly the case- most are both uninformed and uninterested. This has resulted from 3 decades of CBT being the 'flavour of the month'. One of the consequences of this has been that any notions of the unconscious have become viewed as anachronisms- the depth psychology baby has been thrown out with the Freudian bathwater, in preference to a focus on surface level thoughts and feelings. CBT is about as effective as most other approaches in psychology with dealing with most problems, other than chronic pain. As we know, a depth-psychology focus is needed with chronic pain in order to go beyond the surface level, as the symptoms serve an unconscious emotional purpose. CBT barely even acknowledges unconscious thoughts/feelings, and has even less of an idea as to what to do with them. I would think that any psychologist or psychotherapist who utilises a depth-psychology approach, whether they have heard of Sarno/TMS or not, is in a better position to work with people regarding their chronic pain than most CBT practitioners. Those not utilising a depth-psychology approach (and i think this is most psychologists- certainly in Australia anyway, and i suspect in America too) can at best help people to adjust to the pain. This may be welcome, as any relief is better than no relief; but most people actually want to get over their pain, not just learn to accept it. Acceptance is really important though, and can provide some relief, but eradicating the pain is a viable goal as well. There are some signs of hope on the CBT horizon- Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a more recent development and does entail some depth elements, and can be effective in helping to reduce chronic pain (although it is questionable how true to CBT it is?). Psychology as a profession clearly needs to go beyond a focus on the surface level and rediscover its depth-psychology legacy (ie. not just Freudian, but also the psychology of William James- the founder of psychology in America). My profession has failed people in chronic pain for the last 3 or so decades, and this needs to change. As such, one of the purposes of my book (The Hidden Psychology of Pain) is to bring TMS theory into maintstream psychology, highlighting its points of confluence with other elements of contemporary psychology and neurology. Most psychologists are basically less informed about such issues than are most people on this forum.
James
I do not pretend to know anything about psychotherapy and my experiences with both psychiatrists and the therapists that they assign you to, after giving you meds (which I do not have a problem with, especially if you are in total panic and stress mode), is that the psychiatrist dispenses only pills and not advice or responses, and the therapists only watch the clock for their billing hours. You are lucky to get fifteen minutes with the psychiatrist, but common to get a bill for $250. I gave up on them all, and began a DIY course.
I take a macro view of CBT. It all boils down to your thoughts. Abraham Low, Clare Weekes and Dr. Sarno were all preaching CBT one way or another, but the so-called "third" wave of CBT, ACT, I found to be quite helpful. Steven C. Hayes, "Get out of Your Mind and into your Life," is good, i think. I find nothing contra to a modified Freudian message in Haye's book. We have to understand, first, how we got to where we are; then we have to use CBT tools to help to change it. And how do we get anywhere with anything in life: by our thoughts. That, and nothing else.
In fact, if you want the CBT shorthand, Ace1's Keys to Healing is pretty much the drive through menu for it. And no calories, either.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 11:55:03
Yes, it was a good meeting. He cannot help me with everything I need and he was honest about it. But in other areas he made some good suggestions. |
| lmcox |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 11:06:08
shawnsmith, how did the appointment go? Was the therapist receptive to the work you've already done? |
| NicoleSachsLCSW |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 12:01:16
I often struggle with the powerlessness I feel in the OPPOSITE direction, if you can believe it. I'm a therapist and my clients come in so sure of their diagnoses and I sit there wanting to jump over the couch and beg them to understand TMS. Not everyone is open to it, and I wish they would be. I've learned that I can't preach, only suggest. When I run across a resistant client, I just do the Sarno work with them quietly, adding in pieces as they are ready. When their pain starts to alleviate I gently remind them that perhaps the reason was the excavation of certain painful memories or truths about their personalities and/or situations, and NOT the latest med they tried etc.. Many believe, but our medical world and commercialized market of pain management makes it a hard pill to swallow (no pun intended!)
The best advice I can offer is stay true to yourself. If you KNOW your pain is TMS, don't let yourself be convinced otherwise for a moment! That little crack in the structure will create doubt and perpetuate pain. My MRI says I shouldn't be able to walk. When I was 19 they told me I wouldn't live to 40 without spinal fusion surgery. Well, I turned 40 last May and danced the night away with my friends. Plus I have 5 kids and they are busy! I've never gone under the knife. Don't let the world of pathology get you down. YOU CAN DO THIS! I've seen so many succeed. xo.
quote:
Originally posted by Birdie78
shawnsmith, great letter, please let us know how your second meeting was and how was the reaction to your information! Wish you all the best, finding an insightful and comepetent therapist is such important for us TMSers (and everyone who is seeking for help)
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie
Embrace your Truth, Create your Life. |
| Birdie78 |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 03:13:28
shawnsmith, great letter, please let us know how your second meeting was and how was the reaction to your information! Wish you all the best, finding an insightful and comepetent therapist is such important for us TMSers (and everyone who is seeking for help)
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 00:34:06
Alangordon, thanks for the link and I will check into it. I have skype, but sometimes the connection is bad. |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 18:19:28
Hi Dr. James,
I appreciate your personal attention to my post. You are right about the trauma - My parents used to travel a lot and I sustained physical abuse by a babysitter, followed by a 3 week stay in the hospital for severe pain. Later, when I was 5, I was chased by an older child and ran in front of a car and was hit. Another hospital stay. I repressed most of this all of my life. My parents never talked about it. About 3 years ago, right after my sister's death from severe alcoholism at age 58, something changed in me. I began having flashbacks and was gradually able to remember a lot of it. I really feel that I could benefit from therapy now, but wonder about having access to it. I am going to look into some of your suggestions. I really appreciate all of the help and expert opinion you have provided us. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 15:36:30
This is what I e-mailed my therapist in preparation for tomorrow's session.
Dear ....,
I hope you don't think it too forward or out of line that I am e-mailing you. As a follow-up to our first meeting on Tuesday, I wanted to tell you about the condition I have, which is generally referred to as TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome) or what some people simply refer to as "The MindBody Syndrome." There is a lot already written on this topic by credible physicians and doctors and the science behind it is rock solid. In my humble opinion, the best and most comprehensive book written on this topic is "The Great Pain Deception: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse" by former TMS sufferer Steve Ozanich. (See: http://www.paindeception.com) He is legit and not a crackpot. I stay away from crackpots myself. I have read a lot of material on this topic and steer clear of charlatans.
I am active on this discussion board which includes people who have the same condition as I do: <http://tmshelp.com>.
But another great resource, with tons of information and references, is this website: <http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com>.
Perhaps Arlene Feinblatt, Ph.D., a Psychotherapist in the US, is one leading expert on how to treat people with this condition with the use of a specific type of psychotherapy. She is currently editing her book "Psychotherapy for Pain and Mind/Body Syndromes," with a preface by John E. Sarno MD, the physician I referenced in our first meeting. She can be reached via her website at: <http://www.arlenefeinblatt.com>
In addition, a physician has generously compiled these guidelines to healing which I have found helpful: <http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765>
What I am really looking for in our meetings together is psychotherapy sessions which will help me unearth some repressed emotions which are contributing to my symptoms as well as resources which can help me integrate back into normal life. Yes, as you insight-fully suggested in the homework you assigned me, current stressors are most certainly one source of this, but also past trauma and personality traits are, in my opinion, also a factor but I need help with untangling them.
Dr. Sarno highly recommends psychotherapy sessions for trouble healers like myself. Although most people with TMS he has treated do not need these sessions, I am fit into the minority of those who do and I draw upon your professional expertise to help me.
I will see you tomorrow at 11:00AM.
Cordially
Shawn |
| alangordon |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 13:11:37
In my experience, having a therapist who has a strong understanding of and belief in the TMS diagnosis significantly increases the chance of recovery. Derek Sapico (dereksapico@yahoo.com) is TMS therapist I often refer out of state clients to as he has a high success rate with long term TMS symptoms and specializes in skype therapy.
Alan |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 12:55:57
Susan, I agree with you about the FM. I commend you for taking your life into your own hands and refusing to become it's victim. You may recall that I spoke about the FM posts on some of my health forums. Reading these really terrifies me because I realize that if I don't deal with my TMS, that could be ME. You should hear these people, they are all life's victims, they are hysterical and they are very, very sick. They are all seeing loads of doctors and getting worse and worse. No wonder health has gotten so expensive in the US.
Of course, FM doctors would not be employed if FM was found out to be what it really is, TMS.
|
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 12:49:29
Chickenbone. I have no idea about the availability of good therapy in Panama, but it is never too late to find a better option than surface level therapies. The type of depth approaches which seem to have a positive impact on TMS (as well as the emotional issues which the pain is distracting us from) include the brief psychoanalytic therapy offered at Sarno's clinic, EMDR (esp where it is trauma based, which sounds like could be the case for you); and i have recently come across 'Coherence Therapy' which ticks all the right boxes in terms of being a depth psychology approach which shares the notion that our symptoms (physical and psychological) are there to protect us from other deeper painful emotional truths (Google it and perhaps contact them to see if there are any practitioners in your part of the world). The EMDR Institute website has a 'locate a practitioner page and you may be able to find someone in your area. If not, it could be worth traveling to access. I once used EMDR with a woman in her mid 80's- she was sexually abused as a child and had lived with the trauma for her entire life. We were able to successfully treat the it and she was then able to let it go. She may have died a year or 2 later, but at least she had found peace and could see out her days without the inner turmoil. I think its a good example of 'better late than never' and have no doubt about the value of doing the therapy with her.
James |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 12:34:35
I think you are so right, Dr. James. I had a bad early childhood, which I think accounts for most of my pain. Because of my heavy psychological issues and my demanding job during my working life, I embraced CBT and some light medication for insomnia (I have never been able to get over the fear of going to sleep) as a quick fix so that I could get through a outwardly successful life, because that was what everyone wanted from me and for me. I deeply regret that decision now because I am retired and mostly unable to enjoy it because, as I get older, it is more and more difficult to repress the never ending cycle of anxiety/anger/fear. Sooner or later I will always encounter one of my "triggers" and it starts all over again. And of course that is where my pain comes from. I wish now that I gone for the deep psychology. I may have had to be in the hospital for a year or longer, been on disability for awhile, but I do believe that I would have been able to recover my career and my life. I certainly would have enjoyed my life more and have been more productive. I caved in to he demands of society and now I am paying the price. |
| susan828 |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 21:47:46
Shawn, I was diagnosed with fibro in 1996. It started in my legs, went to my arms, tooth pain, facial pain. I knew nothing about Sarno then.
I was in a horrible relationship. The day we broke up after 2 years I woke up and the pain was gone. Not that it didn't come back here and there (and now) but I know with certainty that this pain was caused by stress.
I was in a fibro chat room where nobody talked about psychological stuff. Most were in disability and all they did was complain. I left the chat, I told myself I don't want to be a walking fibro...I was me first, not a disease. I don't want to wind up in a wheelchair and I started a business which entails walking all day. I wasn't going to let it run my life.
Now that I have read just about every book, there is no difference. There IS a "fibro personality" that I saw in the chat room and I see here. Good people, good traits.
When I saw the rheumatologist, he could see that I was interested in the subject and I did some research for him, he did not pay me, I wanted to. I had medical books from the 1700s and 1800s and ordered more on rheumatism. They called it the "movable disease" and the way they described it was exactly as I mentioned at the start of this post and exactly what Sarno says...it leaves one part and goes to another.
So I agree with the other posters...you already know this is all the same so what good will it be to see a rheumatologist...he will just press 18 points and tell you, yes you have fibro and then what? Drugs, supplements...not the route you want to take.
I think you have to ask him why he wants you to learn more about fibro. I hope he is good. I have had some horrible therapists including one supposed cognitive therapist who didn't know who Beck was...I could not believe it. That was the first and last session with him. I had another that I brought along a book written for the practitioner called Treating Health Anxiety because I thought it would help her to help me. She was insulted, so that was it. When we know more than they do, it's ridiculous. I hope yours is real good though and would be interested to hear what happens. |
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 19:37:45
tennis tom- one of your earlier statements was that you are amazed at how uninterested/uninformed most psychotherapists are about TMS. This is clearly the case- most are both uninformed and uninterested. This has resulted from 3 decades of CBT being the 'flavour of the month'. One of the consequences of this has been that any notions of the unconscious have become viewed as anachronisms- the depth psychology baby has been thrown out with the Freudian bathwater, in preference to a focus on surface level thoughts and feelings. CBT is about as effective as most other approaches in psychology with dealing with most problems, other than chronic pain. As we know, a depth-psychology focus is needed with chronic pain in order to go beyond the surface level, as the symptoms serve an unconscious emotional purpose. CBT barely even acknowledges unconscious thoughts/feelings, and has even less of an idea as to what to do with them. I would think that any psychologist or psychotherapist who utilises a depth-psychology approach, whether they have heard of Sarno/TMS or not, is in a better position to work with people regarding their chronic pain than most CBT practitioners. Those not utilising a depth-psychology approach (and i think this is most psychologists- certainly in Australia anyway, and i suspect in America too) can at best help people to adjust to the pain. This may be welcome, as any relief is better than no relief; but most people actually want to get over their pain, not just learn to accept it. Acceptance is really important though, and can provide some relief, but eradicating the pain is a viable goal as well. There are some signs of hope on the CBT horizon- Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a more recent development and does entail some depth elements, and can be effective in helping to reduce chronic pain (although it is questionable how true to CBT it is?). Psychology as a profession clearly needs to go beyond a focus on the surface level and rediscover its depth-psychology legacy (ie. not just Freudian, but also the psychology of William James- the founder of psychology in America). My profession has failed people in chronic pain for the last 3 or so decades, and this needs to change. As such, one of the purposes of my book (The Hidden Psychology of Pain) is to bring TMS theory into maintstream psychology, highlighting its points of confluence with other elements of contemporary psychology and neurology. Most psychologists are basically less informed about such issues than are most people on this forum.
James |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 13:50:02
I already believe that FM is TMS, there is not a single shred of doubt in my mind, so no worries. I have not taken even a Tylenol for pain even when at times I have been in a lot of discomfort. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 13:44:37
For clarity, I wasn't advocating his book in this case. (Though I thought it might be helpful for some.)
My point was that he is involved in clinical trials on this subject and is of of those who believes FM is absolutely TMS, in case you wanted to reference any of his work on the matter.
|
| alix |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 13:14:03
Shawn, I am so sorry of what that therapist said. FM is a dead end. If you see a FM doctor you will be diagnosed with FM and prescribed Lyrica and/or Cymbalta.
I have been down that path unfortunately several years ago. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 12:31:07
I second the fact that I felt Dr. Shubiner's book was not very helpful at all to me. It added no more information than Dr. Sarno's books. It had some extra stuff on mindfulness, but in the way it was portrayed, it was not helpful to me. Also the way the journaling was to be used to help someone was also not very productive to me. I tried it and did not have a single bit of progress from it. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 09:10:47
Yeah, I got Dr. Schubiner's work-book. I didn't care for it though. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 08:57:13
Shawn,
Dr. Schubiner has done a lot of work in this area ans without question believes it is TMS in nature. |
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