| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| menvert |
Posted - 03/12/2005 : 06:19:47
HI all,
Just interesting yesterday was doing very well . it had been about two days in which my latest symptoms had calmed down.
But this morning I wake up at 7am , momentarily, everything seems fine .
then I finally wake up and get up about 10 AM. At which time I wake up basically with a dead arm (pins and needles) and a return of the pain in the back of my left hand.
Now , one trail of thought thinks ok the actual dead arm may have been physical (severe loss of blood to my arm . due to sleeping position) and is very similar to what TMS does and as such stimulates the same . if not more intense symptoms.
Or looking at it the other way . I had some fairly intense dreams.
It was nothing you would call a bad dream. BUT it was full of the social/emotional pressure and fears that I would experience in normal life(whereas dreams usually for me, are rather enjoyable, because they are not like real-life...)
including issues such as rejection, disappointment , such as another person having a good time with a lady friend, which I would have liked to do myself :). And also the theme of somebody I didn't like so much, who has decided I am their friend . but if I try to reject them . they threatened to get violent/difficult.... so bringing out my goodists, which says I can't disappoint someone else . even if I disappoint myself.
hmm , I did stay up late at night before programming somewhat obsessively . but I had no symptoms at the time apart from tiredness. I stopped because I was tired rather than two or three nights ago, I might have stopped because my arms were hurting too much.
so it does somewhat seem like dreams may have been the trigger.
I have read topics about dreams revealing your unconscious to you, but I haven't specifically read any posts regarding dreams themselves, causing symptoms... |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Albert |
Posted - 03/15/2005 : 11:03:43
Bandabill:
I've had similar thoughts. I've had a lot of spiritual experiences in my life. For a while I belonged to a cult. In order to psychologically separate myself from the cult I gradually separated myself from my spirituality all together, even though I had many spiritual experiences even before I joined the cult.
Back pain and other TMS symptoms got me to dig into my unconscious mind. As a result things relating to my spirituality started to come back to life. I am now able to acknowledge the spiritual part of my life without having my past cult experience effect me. I actually feel thankfull towards TMS symptoms because they played a role in helping me get my spirituality back, which is the most important part of my life.
It is almost as if TMS symptoms get you to pay attention to what is going on in your unconscious mind. If you're feeling a symptom something must be bugging you.
There is contradictory information on this from Dr. Sarno. On the one hand he writes that 95% of his patients don't have a reoccurance of symptoms once they get well. On the other hand he writes about examples including himself in which people have an occurence of a symptom because of a particular thing that is bugging them as opposed to a repressed pool of rage. Once they become aware of what's bugging them the symptom goes away.
The cult issue above isn't the only issue that has become unrepressed for me. There are other spiritual issues that have come back to the surface, and it is understandible why a part of my mind was afraid of them. There's a big universe out there that our limited physical senses aren't aware of.
I believe that the main factor to understand is that the symptoms have a psychological cause rather than a physical cause.
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| Laura |
Posted - 03/15/2005 : 09:19:10
Hi, all -
I, too, have posted about this in the past. Yes, Colleen, Dr. Schechter does say that and it could explain a lot of things.
I tend to dream in great detail. I wake up and remember my dreams and try to analize them. I have always thought that was important, even before I discovered Dr. Sarno. Ever since I was a kid, I can remember having dreams about flying and about falling down from escalators in stores. The dreams are always extremely vivid. I also have a lot of dreams about nuclear explosions (since I was young) and planes crashing around me, or dreams where I'm in the middle of a war and people are firing guns and cannons me. They are horrible dreams and I always wake up feeling quite shaken.
This morning, I was dreaming about flying again. As many of you know, ever since my last flying episode three years ago and resulting vertigo, I haven't stepped foot on a plane. I was dreaming this morning about getting on a plane and "facing" my fears head on. Part of my dream involved this beautiful girl that my husband was chasing after. In my dream, my husband kept telling me that he had just met the most beautiful woman in the world. He was chasing after her and trying to talk to her. Now in real life, my husband is a definite flirt but he is not a womanizer and I trust him completely. But all this triggered me remembering that while we were on the dreaded trip to Cancun three years ago, there WAS an incident that involved a really pretty girl and I HAD felt a bit insecure. We had gone to this island -- a "booze cruise" which was not much fun (to me anyway). I had one beer and was bored out of my mind watching everyone getting rip roaring drunk and acting like complete idiots. They had this buffet and while we were standing in line there was this really pretty blonde girl, probably about 21 or 22, and my husband was falling all over the place trying to talk to her. All the other husbands were as well. It was as if they had never met anyone so beautiful before. After we had gotten our food, we went to sit down and I noticed my husband was staring across the room at her. One of the other husband's said something like "The girl said to try the fish...." The way he spoke, it was as if "the girl" was some sort of goddess or something. I just remember feeling a bit jealous and insecure for a few moments, like me and the other wives just didn't measure up to this gorgeous creature that our husbands were fawning all over. Part of that insecurity stemmed from the fact that this "girl" was talking about how she was just about to graduate from college and how she was going to do something in the medical field. I, on the other hand, wanted to do something in the medical field but dropped out of college when my husband and I moved to L.A., so that I could start a job as a medical transcriber (not my life goal). This has always been something I have felt bad about, like I'm not as smart as other people because I don't have a degree.
After dinner, we walked off to a quiet place and called our children. I remember I was missing them so very much and would have given my right arm if someone would have picked me up and taken me back home to them. It was a very "anxious" almost panicky feeling, like I was stranded on this island and couldn't leave. After that night, I began experiencing the floating/rocking/dizzy sensation which lasted for all this time and is finally almost gone.
I think it's interesting that I am remembering all this because I had forgotten until I had this dream early this morning. I started thinking about it all and how TMS sets up shop somewhere in your body that is vulnerable. Isn't it ironic that I would go on this short little boat ride to an island, about 45 minutes each way in very calm water, and come out of it rocking and feeling dizzy? What triggered it? Could it be that my own feelings of jealousy and insecurity triggered it? I'm starting to wonder.
Laura
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| BANDABILL |
Posted - 03/14/2005 : 23:26:32
dave ....sorry about the caps. they have the computers at the job site set that way. but i am going straight now. only from home. |
| Ginag |
Posted - 03/14/2005 : 14:57:13
Whenever I have had a dream where I become extremely angry and in a rage, I will always wake up much more dizzier that day. So I believe that whatever is transpiring in my dream has a definite effect on my TMS. Even though the anger is being stimulated by a dream scenario, it's as if I am really living the action. The dizziness it brings on is similar to what happens to me in actual instances. At first, I couldn't believe it and attributed it to coincidence. However, it has occurred too frequently to be coincidental.
Gina |
| Dave |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 14:58:32
BANDABILL,
Please do not post with ALL CAPS. It is difficult to read and makes it seem AS IF YOU ARE SHOUTING.
Thanks. |
| BANDABILL |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 10:03:24
WELL, YOU MAY BE RIGHT ABOUT THE CONDITIONING - THOUGH IT'S A RECENT ONE. UP UNTIL THREE WEEKS AGO, I CONSIDERED MYSELF TO BE ONE OF THE WORLD'S GREAT SLEEPERS. FOR OVER 4O YRS I HAVE WORKED ALL SORTS OF ODD NIGHT SHIFTS. I COULD SPLIT SLEEP TIMES UP INTO ANY NUMBER OF SEGMENTS AND NAP TIMES. I COULD EVEN SET MY UNCONSCIOUS CLOCK TO WAKE UP ON ANY SPECIFIC MINUTE OF THE DAY OR NIGHT. WHICH LEADS ME TO THINK I AM NOW BEING HIT AT MY MOST SEEMINGLY INVULNERABLE SPOT TO LET ME KNOW I STILL HAVE SOME WORK TO DO.
BUT WHEN YOU ASK ABOUT DREAMS, I THINK YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK WHEN YOU WONDER IF THEY HAVE IMPORTANCE TO TMS. THEY HAVE GIVEN ME SOME GOOD CLUES ABOUT HIDDEN THINGS. *IF* YOU CAN FIGGER OUT WHAT EMOTIONS PUSHED THEM INTO BEING.SOME THERAPISTS DO A LOT OF DREAM-WORK ANALYSIS. NEVER HAVE MYSELF. BUT IT SEEMS LOGICAL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE REMEMBERING DREAMS WELL.
AS FAR AS SARNO'S THEORY THAT OUR UNCONSCIOUS IS ONLY DIVERTING ATTENTION, I AM THINKING I WILL NEVER GET ON BOARD - EVEN THOUGH HE IS MY HERO AND THINK HE SHOULD WIN A NOBEL PRIZE. I HAVE BEEN A NURSE FOR OVER TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AND THINK HE IS ONE OF THE FEW IN THE MEDICAL WORLD WHO HAS IT BASICALLY RIGHT - ALONG WITH THE COJONES TO SAY IT. BECAUSE, TO ME HE IS SAYING THAT THERE ARE ENERGY-CONSUMING/DISHARMONIZING/DISEASE FACILITATING THOUGHTS/EMOTIONS THAT NEED TO BE RELEASED FROM THE MIND/BODY IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE GOOD HEALTH. BECAUSE OF SARNO, THE RESULT OF OUR SYMPTOMS HAS BEEN FOR US TO COME TO THAT REALIZATION. IF YOU WILL NOTICE, WITH EACH NEW BOOK, SARNO HAS INCLUDED MORE AND MORE "DISEASE" PROCESSES AS THE RESULT OF "NEGATIVE" EMOTIONS. IF WE WERE PRIVY TO HIS PRIVATE THOUGHTS, I THINK WE WOULD FIND HIM CLOSE TO INCLUDING ALMOST ALL ILLNESS, ESPECIALLY CANCER, AS HAVING AN EMOTIONAL COMPONENT, IF NOT CAUSE.
BUT,ARE OUR "TOTAL" MINDS (OUR SPIRITS/SOULS/FORCE OF LIFE IF YOU WANT TO GO THAT FAR) GIVING US PAIN SO THAT THESE HIDDEN, DESTRUCTIVE THOUGHTS/EMOTIONS CAN KEEP US SUSCEPTIBLE TO ILLNESS AND IN A STATE OF "DISHARMONY"? I DON'T BUY THAT PART. IT SEEMS ALMOST LIKE THAT'S BUYING INTO A BELIEF SYSTEM OF RIGHT/WRONG, GOOD/EVIL. LIKE, I SAY, MAYBE IT'S MY ALL-GOOD PREJUDICES.
BUT, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT MY FEELING THAT WE HAVE TO GO TO WAR WITH A PART OF OURSELVES TO ACHIEVE A HAPPIER STATE OF BEING. RATHER, I THINK IT'S JUST A MATTER OF PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT, FOR A GOOD REASON, WE ARE BEING TOLD. TO ME, THE PAIN IS JUST A "TOUGH LOVE" LETTER. LATELY, I HAVE BEEN THANKING THEGREATSPIRITOFALLTHINGS FOR THESE PAINS. STILL GOT TO DO THE MINDFULLNES ON THE PAIN, THOUGH. AH, WELL.
WOW. BETTER NOT TO GIVE EMPLOYEES ACCESS TO THE INTERNET ON A SUNDAY MORNING. MAY I BE FORGIVEN. I PROMISE TO TAKE SHORT LUNCHES FOR THE NEXT WEEK. |
| Colleen |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 08:16:21
Menvert,
Doesn't Dr. Schetcher say in his audio that, "sleep is orthopedically restfull and psychologically active".....therefore, the mind is working, working, working all night long. I too have thought about dreams in that I will often awake at 6:00am with nerve pain in my feet and I have not been standing in hours!! Also, I have often awaken with anxiety symptoms.....something I dreamt about ??
Colleen |
| menvert |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 00:00:08
hmmm, what u expalin sounds more specifically to be a trigger for your pain or programming....
it sounds to me like youve been conditioned to expect pain during sleep (even a small nap)of which is a major part of sarno method.
this pain state perpetiates itself without the need of specific emotional issues as you now 'know' you will get pain form sleeping.
changing such conditioning(as all TMS'er have to do) is a very important and often difficult part towards full recovery.
and yes Sarno does refer to your unconcious as a prison & that the inmates(rage etc.) are perpetually trying to escape.... yet parts of our brain Desperately try to keep them down by diverting our attention to physical pain... |
| BANDABILL |
Posted - 03/12/2005 : 09:23:50
I CAN'T USUALLY RELATE SYMPTOM RECURRENCE TO SPECIFIC DREAMS, BUT I WILL SAY THAT SLEEP BRINGS ON MY PRESENT SYMPTOMS (EXCRUCIATING PAIN IN THE FRONT OF MY SHOULDERS) BIG TIME. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POSITIONING OR DURATION BECAUSE EVEN A TEN MINUTE NAP WHILE SITTING UP WILL SUFFICE. IT ONLY CONFIRMS MY BELIEF (A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM SARNO'S) THAT THE UNCONSCIOUS IS NOT DIVERTING ATTENTION, BUT DEMANDING IT IN THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY IT CAN. AND, LIKE A PEZ DISPENSER IT WILL KEEP PUSHING THINGS UP AND OUT THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY IN ITS DESIRE FOR FREEDOM FROM HAZARDOUS THOUGHTS/EMOTIONS. MAYBE I AM SOMEWHAT POLLYANISH, OR DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT I AM DOING BATTLE WITH DEMONS, BUT I SEE OUR PREDICAMENTS AS BLESSINGS. I HOPE SOMEONE WHO IS MORE JUNG-ORIENTED THAN FREUD-ORIENTED WILL COMMENT. I AM NOT WELL READ ON EITHER, BUT HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT JUNG MIGHT SEE THIS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENTLY. |
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