| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| alix |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 23:26:26
Hello everyone,
I have not posted for years but I would like to share my recovery from pelvic pain. I left this board very disappointed. I had indeed seen TMS doctor Schechter in Los Angeles and I had 24 phone sessions with Don Dubin.
I am sorry to say that it was a waste of time and money. Dr.Schechter seemed to assume in advance that it was TMS (he cut me before I finished my story) so I did not find him very convincing despite his authority and experience. In addition and I am not trying to sound arrogant but I had the feeling that I knew more about the pudendal nerve or prostatitis than Dr.Schechter. I am not criticizing his knowledge here but he cannot be a specialist in everything and
your brain is keenly aware and exploiting that fact.
Don Dubin was a wonderful person with whom I had a lot in common but again he completely missed the issues. Furthermore he told me that he himself was successfully beating his own headaches using Sarno's theories. He sadly passed away a few months later from cancer and obviously his headaches were from his un-diagnosed terminal illness. That very unfortunate incident convinced me that TMS was quackery.
I don't want to sound too controversial but reading all those TMS books, or listening to TMS tapes etc... did not help me either.
I just could not help but to concentrate on the small inconsistencies in those books or tapes.
So what worked?
In desperation and after a few years I looked for a hypnotherapist specialized in pain. It happens that that practitioner is also a believer in Sarno and uses a technique called Neuro Emotional technique or NET. You can check it (you tube has some demonstration) but basically, it is a way to ask yes or no questions to your subconscious. you can therefore quickly zero in on the repressed thoughts that may be the source of your rage. That technique is amazingly effective to get in a few hours to the source of painful repressed memories.
Secondly, I abandoned journaling and instead mentally concentrated on the absurdity of the variation in my pain.
For example I was walking on the sidewalk. A driver lost control of her car and almost hit me driving at high speed. The driver ended up crashing in a gas station. The police came etc... I was shaking but my pain vanished completely for 24 hours. Another time I froze some small warts on my knee and mysteriously the pelvic pain vanished for a little while too. Again it just did not make logical sense that pelvic pain would disappear like that if the problem was physical.
I discovered that by going over and over those 2 seemingly absurd incidents that did not make any sense in a traditional medical way, the pain slowly vanished. As a side note, I mostly did those mental exercises at bedtime as I am convinced the subconscious is very receptive and then processes
it during your sleep.
So I am not pretending that my experience is universal but hopefully it adds a little bit to our collective understanding. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sandy |
Posted - 10/20/2015 : 04:07:12
Hi Alix,
I know this is not a recent thread but I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story. It has been very helpful to me as I begin to tackle my own diagnosis of PN with TMS,
Sandy
 |
| alix |
Posted - 01/06/2013 : 00:06:46
Good post back2-it.
Dr.Sarno advises psychotherapy when there is a lack of progress. It is what I did. I contacted Don Dubin. During one session Don asked me if I had a trauma during childhood. I choked. I had a panic attack. I could not say a word. I knew that I had behavioral issues until I was 6. But no amount of journaling or psychotherapy managed to help. I just could not recall any traumatic event. It is where NET helped me immensely discover the mystery of this traumatic event and put it to rest for good. In the grand scheme of things, I cannot tell you how important that discovery was but it sure brought closure and relief. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 23:08:36
This topic again intersects with my position that there are SOME people, usually longer-term sufferers, who need a better understanding of what anxiety/TMS/anger/ what- have- you does to a body. Their body. Their specific symptom. Especially when following the advice to resume normal activity.
If a "TMS" Doctor is to say you are fine; yet you are exhibiting hypotonic muscles and referred pain, and you have no knowledge of this anatomy effect, then when you start to accept and follow the given advice, and you experience what is foreign and frightening and not known in your sphere of knowledge, then you run the very high chance of frightening yourself into disbelief and further fear and anxiety.
Mind and Body. Again, mind and body. The allopathic doctor sees a herniated disc or a "muscle imbalance" and the cure is surgery or some kind of exercise or medication -- or all of it. A "TMS" doctor looks at you, listens to your case history, maybe lay hands on you, and you are pronounced healthy. Yes, I am healthy, but please explain why my rigid paraspinals will sometimes refer pain to my chest and abdomen, or my rectus muscles to my back? How in the hell am I -- a marketing guy-- suppose to know this?
For those personality types -- and they are not generally the TMS type-- they will conclude the TMS white coat is right. Especially if their affliction has been short.
Ultimately, it is changing your thinking and maybe your life situation, as all the wise posters have insisted; and sticking with a plan and living a worthwhile and productive life; but when you are faced with something as foreign as your own body (sounds silly, no?), some need more knowledge and explanation of the physical effects of chronic or acute anxiety.
If it were as simple as waving a magic wand and advising sufferers that their pain is real but caused by anxious and intrusive thoughts, the "success" side of this forum would be maxed out.
Dr. Sarno is right: knowledge is the cure. Anxiety and anger are part of the problem, along with fear of symptoms, but what is so hard for a TMS doc to explain the symptoms, unless it is lack knowledge of muscular-skeletal anatomy? Or not sufficient knowledge of some of the other TMS/anxiety problems, such as IBS and GERD? If they do not know, find out and tell the suffering soul.
Explain what TMS/anxiety does do a body, specifically, and what they might expect, specifically as possible, upon the road to recovery.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| alix |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 21:33:47
pspa,
There is so much mumbo jumbo around NET. It seems that every practitioner feels obliged to add some twist to it depending on what their original training is. I just took what was relevant to finding repressed memories and completely ignored the rest.
Have a look here:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx3aqfiePY4 |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 20:34:36
Is this the same NET? If so it seems to be something invented by and primarily practiced by chiropractors?
"The Power of the Home Run Formula
NET uses the Home Run Formula model as a way of categorizing health into four general areas. This model provides the practitioner with an innovative, yet time-proven method of analyzing and helping patients.
NET practitioners are trained to use The Home Run Formula model, with 1st base representing Emotional/stress-related factors, 2nd base representing the effects of toxins on the body, 3rd base representing nutritional needs, and 4th base representing structural needs.
Although we find stress to be a big component of health, it is very important to understand that any problem can include factors of the other bases, and it is necessary to address all factors related to one’s health.
1st base represents emotional or stress-related factors, and NET is one of the approaches used to help patients.
2nd base represents the effects of toxins on the body (things that are in the body and should not be there). Specific homeopathic support can help many cases where there is a toxic condition. Drs. Scott and Deb Walker have developed a special line of NET Remedies® for patient support during the healing process.
3rd base represents biochemistry or the nutrition factor of health (things that should be in the body and may be less than adequate). Diet and specific nutritional support may need to be addressed.
4th base represents structural and physical corrections. This factor is addressed relative to the practitioner’s field of expertise." |
| alix |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 20:14:41
tennis tom,
I believe that there is a difference. NET is to discover the memories that have been repressed while EFT is to get rid of the negative impact those memories have on you once you have identified them. In some ways EFT can be complimentary to NET. In short, NET to discover and EFT to erase.
I am not trying to make a case for any of those practices here, just trying to distinguish the claims. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 18:07:31
quote:
Originally posted by alix
...It happens that that practitioner is also a believer in Sarno and uses a technique called Neuro Emotional technique or NET. You can check it (you tube has some demonstration) but basically, it is a way to ask yes or no questions to your subconscious. you can therefore quickly zero in on the repressed thoughts that may be the source of your rage. That technique is amazingly effective to get in a few hours to the source of painful repressed memories.
Maybe the above or EFT.
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/17/2012 : 06:49:36
He sounded confident, the exam was perfunctory, no palpation just looked at the x-rays I brought him and pronounced that even other TMS doctors disagree with Sarno on hips being TMS. His office is in the high-rent district of Beverly Hills. Judging by the photos of celebs athletes in his offices, I may have had more bed-side manner, if I'd been a star but the dx would have probably been the same.
I saw his therapist Donald Dubin, who appears on his audios, for a couple of sessions while down in La-La Land, and he said he doesn't always agree with Schechter. That created doubt in the dx for me, therefore, I've still got my old hippie, and go hobbling merrily along. |
| alix |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 23:48:26
Tennis_tom,
That's a real bummer. Did he look like he was confident in his diagnostic? To me he said TMS but his demeanor and body language was more like "I have no clue".
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 23:09:46
Hi Alix,
I didn't know you were referring to the Schechter video--well that's Hollywood. I drove 500 miles to see him once a long time ago, hoping to get the good word that I had TMS. He looked at my x-rays and said nope, get a hip-replacement, sending me off with nocebo grande'. |
| alix |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 20:40:22
Tennis_tom,
I was referring to the Schechter video. No matter what, there is a huge pressure to give good news when you are on a video like that surrounded by a professional camera crew. It is just human nature. I am sure that the people featured are much better and I am not criticizing them. I just think there is more to the story in each case. I would have liked to hear about their struggle and not that it was so easy.
Again, I am not criticizing. It just explains why I did not connect with those testimonials back in 2005.
Imagine yourself tennis_tom being invited by Dr.Schechter to speak on his next DVD. Maybe you would refuse to do it but if you accept, you will emphasize the positives and maybe minimize the negatives when the camera is rolling and a dozen faces are staring at you.
I was not a "paid endorser" either myself BTW. But still, I really thought the product I was endorsing was "great, accurate, but difficult to use". When I was filmed I just said that the product was "great and accurate", I skipped the "but difficult to use". Again, it is just human nature.
But talking about videos, the one from Dr.Schubiner where he explains the ideas of Dr.Sarno in connection with real sections of the brain like the amygdala really clicked for me and made me understand the connection with the science underneath. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 18:28:10
quote:
Originally posted by alix
But the second time I revisited Sarno successfully, I tried to put those testimonials into perspective.
The fact is that these people are very carefully selected and there is a huge pressure on them when a professional crew is behind them and the testimony will be made public, to give a positive feedback.
They cannot say something like "well, I was great a week ago when Dr.X asked me to give a testimonial but not so much today".
I recall the testimonials in the books and on Dr. Sarno's video. I would respectfully disagree with your assessment of the scenario. These people were not paid for their testimonials as paid actors would be. They were bonafide patients of Dr. Sarno who attended his seminars after being examined by him. There is no guarantee that once you get over one TMS symptom, life's vicissitudes as listed on the Rahe-Holmes list will not crop up again and deliver you another TMS symptom in an attempt to protect you from emotional dis-ease.
It's too bad we could not all have been residents of the Tri-States area so we could have been his personal patients. The TMS dx coming from the Good Doctor is probably one of the most valuable tools of modern medicine. Numerous of his patients have posted here, that when they had new symptoms, they revisited or called Dr. Sarno for TMS "boosters" and if it was TMS regained their faith--it gets easier with practice. Once you were a patient of Dr. Sarno's, you were a patient for life--too bad he retired so young at ninety. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 18:19:30
quote:
Originally posted by alix
Cheers Eric and Happy holidays!
cheers to you alix and happy holidays to you too my friend |
| alix |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 18:12:27
Cheers Eric and Happy holidays! |
| eric watson |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 17:10:18
ok-im backing out of this thread
had to post and i did....
if it benefits someone great....
i think ace said it best-were all here to help
so lets do that...
pspa you have a right to your thoughts the same as i or ace or steveo does
alix again you and pspa can bring out a great debate....
and really andy dont ya know already....
were all friends here....debating about theorys
and yes im healed-i just know how to be argumentive in a constuctive state without hurting anymore...
although i see this post as very perplex
its as much as i as us all that kept the debate stimulated, i hope you all have a blessed christmas....
god bless
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| Ace1 |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 13:38:31
Hi guys. Lets love each other. We want to help not hurt. Maybe I started this and it was not my intension. I promise my only intension to mention anger was to help maybe clue someone to something. If it is said in any other way besides a gentle manner, it will not help them see anything and spark defenses. Lets all forget about what was said to each other here. Lets start fresh. Eric's intensions are good and I think pspa intensions are good too. Eric is just trying to support Steve's and my position bc he thinks we are helping a lot of people. He is so greatful to being cured that anything that may in anyway take away from someones healing, affects him. Please look at it that way. Just bc someone is cured doesn't mean they can't make mistakes or be angry sometimes, we after all are still human. I also understand Alix, he is just saying that he could not heal based on dr sarnos book alone for which I had a similar experience. I do have to say that dr sarno was the only reason I eventually persued the right path to my healing. Remember we need to be more forgoving over all in order to truly heal |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 12:51:03
inadvertent double post sorry |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 12:44:30
quote:
Originally posted by eric watson
quote by pspa123-
Why does chronic pain have to have a single cause and a single treatment, one size fits all, though? What if for some it is caused more by unresolved emotional conflict at the unconscious level, and for others it's more a somatic expression of an anxiety disorder or even just plain stress where the issues are more accessible and on the surface, and where cognitive and behavioral approaches are better suited than digging into the unconscious or however SteveO elegantly phrased it? Or perhaps for some people a combination of approaches might be helpful?
_________________________________________________________________
pspa what site or post have you been reading?-we do apporach tms from all kinds of angles-thats why this post is here-your words r questionable to me-have you read sarnos books?-have you healed from tms? why r you so angry-anger is a reaction that creates tms,-were here to help pspa-what r u here for?steveo has helped many posters here and so has ace,how many have you helped?
There is no anger in anything I said and there is no need to be aggressive in your response or to demean me. I never said Dr. Sarno's methods have not helped many people nor did I suggest that his most ardent supporters such as yourself have not helped people. I was simply saying I ALSO saw some merit to the views of other people who have posted on this forum that all chronic pain was not necessarily caused by unresolved emotional issues at the unconscious level, and that more garden variety anxiety and stress might be to blame to some extent or for some people. As I am sure you know I am referring, in part, to some of Hillbilly's posts. How is that angry? I think it is you who is being defensive and perceiving an attack that never was made. Anyhow, since apparently the message to me today is that I am not fit to post here, I won't any more. Have a peaceful day. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 12:42:35
Hi all,
I’m not even posting right now supposedly taking a break, but I have to respond.
Please, please do not delete this thread. It has helped me immensely recognize that I am not alone in “my slightly different or controversial cure” and there are others like me.
Eric I thought you were cured, I see you as being hypersensitive, angry and carrying the Sarno banner to extremes. Your are very loyal to Sarno, we all are, and owe him a great debt, but in being so you seem to be blinded as to how things are done in the real world today: i.e. through conversation, debate, exchanges of opposing views, and finally the negotiating process.
I will not be commenting further on this thread. Eric I know I need a break from the forum, maybe you should take one and begin to enjoy your recovery.
See you next year,
Sincerely
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| alix |
Posted - 12/16/2012 : 12:15:18
Eric,
You are being very aggressive. I am not saying people are lying at all. I am just saying that those people were carefully selected and I have been in that exact position of giving a testimonial (for some product I was endorsing) and it is nerve wrecking.
Eric, if you feel this thread is disturbing (which I do not comprehend why) feel free to ask for its deletion. It makes no difference to me.
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