| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 08:20:35
http://vimeo.com/35671793
http://www.prohealth.com/me-cfs/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=17142
http://cfids.org/archives/2000rr/2000-rr4-article02.asp
http://www.mecfswa.org.au/News_and_Media/News_Details/The_Pacific_Fatigue_Lab_and_Chronic_Fatigue_Syndrome_%28ME-CFS%29/Default.aspx
So these are the links that give an in total view of CFS and exercise intolerance.
I need a TMS doctor, or SteveO to help me dispute this, that this abnormality is TMS.
If it can't be disputed, then should I take this test and get my magic heart rate number and stay under it? Yet let nothing stop me as long as I am not beeping?
Since illnesses can very much have an emotional/tms component, should I do the work of thinking pyschological with all symptoms WITHOUT forcing activity? Like a purely mental restructuring?
The Fibromyalgia people DO NOT have this. It is a particular abnormality in CFS. The aerobic system is broken. That seems proven by Staci Stevens. But is it broken cuz TMS?
I've had CFS for 24 years, unable to work. Tried everything. Tried Sarno. Didn't improve, always a backlash from forcing activity.
I have SteveO's book arriving in the mail today. I reread all of Sarno in preparation. Maybe SteveO's book can help me.
Please anyone who has an "in" with a TMS doctor can you give them this post if they would be interested in the links provided, and the studies that have been done to determine this.
I don't want to be this way until death.
Is this TMS or an actual limiting organic dysfunction that can only be improved on in baby step exercise functioning.
To watch and read the above links is an investment of under an hour. Please do investigate before answering in this post so you can understand where I am coming from.
Thank you TMS'rs
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| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 11/21/2012 : 15:17:14
Thank you. I just watched/listened to these and was so surprised all contained the ankle lady (Janette Barber)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsR4wydiIBI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYIOOURMuS0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x27bD0V3rPg&feature=relmfu
SteveO did email me, and now I am full onboard confident.
I am Thankful this Thanksgiving!
ps, anyone try the Programmed Dreams from Dr. Clancy D. McKenzie M.D. mentioned in SteveO's book The Great Pain Deception?
http://babiesneedmothers.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=18
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| stayfit65 |
Posted - 11/20/2012 : 17:33:50
I've had trouble with anxiety and TMS for over 20 years. The one thing I have most recently learned through this forum and through Dr. Schubiner and his colleagues is have compassion on yourself. Care for yourself and don't expect yourself to heal within a certain amount of time. Know that you will heal eventually and don't give up. Unfortunately I did not know about TMS until this past April. I was on all sorts of meds for anxiety and back pain, and once I learned of TMS, I promptly started weaning off of them, and I am now on the road to complete recovery. I just want to encourage you to not give up and keep pressing forward, despite any setbacks. In the end, for me, I feel like I have really gotten to love and accept myself for my TRUE self, not what someone else expects me to be, and that is an incredible feeling. |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 11/20/2012 : 17:15:08
If only we could return to a time when psychiatrists treated the patient as a holisitic human being and not as a biochemical imbalance who needs a pill. Thank you for the post Hillbilly. Eye opening. |
| LuvtoSew |
Posted - 11/20/2012 : 07:14:10
Very good post, as that is me, tired , tired , tired. everything hurts. Should get Lowes book. |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 11/20/2012 : 06:06:04
I am overwhelmed with the posts here because what I feel is LOVED. It is loving from all of you to respond, to want to help. Thank goodness for goodists! Thank you so very much.
I printed all of it for rereads. And this morning I saw Ace's list and so I printed that to read also.
I got halfway through SteveO's book last night and will finish it today. What made me most happy, was while he tackled many symptoms, that lower back pain just stuck and stuck no matter how he tortured himself with golf swings and how very very long it took to treat and be rid of it. So THAT made me see that okay, I was able to move symptoms around often enough BUT the fatigue stuck, just like SteveO low back pain, but he got rid of that first and longest duration symptom. So we are ALIKE. I can see that. So it can change for me if I hang on, longterm and keep going. I liked that he said it could take 13/15 months or whatever. When I just couldn't make progress stick before I DID give up because I thought I had to. Time had "run out" Only psychotherapy left but for me but no way---no money.
So thank you for the warm welcome and a hand up. I'm gonna need it.
I got into a car accident, really hit my face, with glasses into the steering column, bruised and sore. And when I thought whiplash I thought how stupid. So I barely felt any soreness and stiffness for just a few days after. THAT is how powerful Sarno stuck inside my head : ) I wouldn't hear of whiplash or long pain. Good for me eh!
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| Bugbear |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 16:22:55
That was a brilliant excerpt, Hillbilly. It had so much packed into it that is discussed on the forum including conditioned responses, nocebos, and doing 'the work' to re-educate ourselves. I especially liked the reference to "American Nervousness". Thanks for coming back and posting this. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 13:43:49
What follows is an excerpt from the book "Mental Health Through Will Training" by Dr. Abraham Low.I copied and pasted this from a website, hence the format that looks like an epic poem by Milton. It has page numbers interspersed with the text, but just read it and understand that fatigue is perhaps the most common nervous symptom known. It was so thoroughly and expertly debunked by Dr. Low in this treatise that I had to share it with you. Follow the advice and you will have the results you seek. And pick up the book at the local library. It is the best book ever written about psychosomatic illness and recovery, IMHO.
THE MYTH OF "NERVOUS FATIGUE"
Evelyn had been irritable, restless and tense for the past ten
years. Sleep was poor. Appetite had declined to the point
of making a meal an ordeal. There was a constant tightness
of the throat, pressure in the head, palpitations and gastric discomfort.
Overshadowing all complaints in importance and intensity
was "an awful fatigue, an exhaustion that starts right
when I get up in the morning and continues without letup
till late afternoon. Then it eases up and in the evening I feel
almost well."
In spite of this sustained suffering, "without letup/' Evelyn
managed to keep her job for years, supplementing her husband's
income. It was only in the past two years that the fatigue and
exhaustion became "unbearable." She resigned her position and
tended to her household and her young son. "But in taking care
of my home I have to drag myself all morning and the greater
part of the afternoon. I am exhausted most of the day.**
E Examiner
P Patient
E: You have attended classes for several months. Has your
condition improved during these months?
P: It has. I sleep well, and my appetite is much better. The
pressure in the head has hardly bothered me lately, and the
pain in the abdomen is getting less and less. But I am still
fatigued. In the morning I have to drag myself and can hardly
keep on my feet. Then I take lunch, and right after I have finished
eating I am all exhausted, my eyes droop and I have to
lie down for an hour or so.
E: You say that you are "all exhausted/' May I ask you what
precisely you mean when you use the word "exhaustion?"
318 MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING
P: Why, I am all in. I have no pep and must force myself
to do the simplest thing.
E: Look here, Evelyn, an exhaustion that has lasted for years,
day after day, even hour after hour, ought to have finally reduced
you to a physical wreck. Your muscles should have
shrunk, your face should by now look gaunt and haggard.
Instead, you maintained your weight, your complexion is blooming,
and your capacity for working is equal to the task of taking
care of house, family and social activities. Several months ago
when sleep was poor and appetite scant your claim to be exhausted
might have been logical. But with a good appetite
and sound sleep it is difficult to think that you are suffering
from a state of exhaustion.
P: I don't understand it myself, but it is a fact that I feel
tired and weary all the time, except in late afternoon and evening.
E: You say you "feel tired and weary all the time." I do not
deny that. You alone are competent to state how you feel. What
interests rne is whether your so-called fatigue is a mere subjective
feeling or an actual and objective condition, whether you
merely feel tired or actually are tired. You seem to be puzzled
by the sharp distinction and I shall try to be more specific.
You understand that if somebody says he feels guilty that does
not necessarily mean he is guilty. And if somebody feels feverish
that does by no means establish the objective fact that he
has fever. These examples will prove to you that a subjective
feeling does not necessarily point to an objective condition. And
if you say you "feel tired and weary all the time," I shall ask
you whether you consider your tiredness a subjective feeling or
an objective condition?
P: All I know is I am miserable all day. I wake up in the
morning, and the fatigue is there the moment I open my eyes.
E: You told me, Evelyn, that for the past few months your
sleep has been good. Suppose you awoke this morning after a
good night's rest. Would you nevertheless have felt fatigued
immediately after awakening?
MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING 319
P: I feel fatigued immediately after I wake up in the morning
regardless of whether sleep was good or poor.
E: If this is true then it is established that you suffer from
the subjective feeling of tiredness and weariness, and not from
the objective condition of fatigue. I shall tell you why I can afford
to be so positive about my statement. You see, Evelyn,
soldiers after a long march, athletes after an exhausting race,
laborers after a strenuous effort, may sometimes be too tired to
fall asleep. But once they lapse into a sound sleep they invariably
and inevitably feel refreshed after awakening. These are examples
of extreme fatigue. Even in these utmost exertions sleep
eliminates fatigue with unquestioned certainty. In minor exertions,
mere rest without sleep will have the same effect. The
only exception to this rule is physical ailment, like an anemia or
tuberculosis. In these conditions, even a sound sleep may not do
away with fatigue. But with physically healthy persons, sleep
never fails to remove fatigue. If it is true that for several
months past you have enjoyed good sleep you have no reason
for being tired in the morning. To sleep means to rest the
muscles. How can your muscles be fatigued if they are rested?
P: I don't know what to say. The fact is that I am all in
no matter how well I slept. If you call that a subjective feeling
you must think it is mental. But I didn't even have time to
think about it. It is there the moment I wake up.
E: I do not know what precisely you mean when you use the
word "mental." Presumably you refer to the possibility that
you may have the thought of fatigue in your mind and instantly
feel the fatigue in your muscles* This instantaneous response
of the muscles to a thought seems to puzzle you. I do not see
why it should. You have certainly gone through similar experiences
hundreds of times. Remember the occasion, for instance,
when you were at a meeting and were called upon to make a
speech. Instantly, your heart began to palpitate, your face reddened,
your abdomen trembled and the knees shook. To use
your own words, you "didn't even have time to think" of the
speech; you merely heard your name called, and the muscles of
320 MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING
your heart, abdomen and legs were thrown into violent tremors
"in no time." In the instance which I quoted the thought in
your mind which caused your muscles to shake was the fear of
not being able to deliver a well constructed address. It was a
fear, or you may call it a fear idea, or the idea of danger. Do
you understand now that if an idea strikes or occupies your
mind the muscles may respond with a violent reaction in a
fraction of a second?
P: I understand that. But when I get up in the morning
there is no idea of danger in my head.
E: The question is what you mean by danger. If you wish to
indicate that, in the morning, you are not trembling with the
fear of being killed or trapped or burned I shall fully agree
with you that no such idea may occupy your brain immediately
after awakening. But there are subtler forms of fears and
dangers. These subtle anxieties and apprehensions go by the
name of preoccupations. I happen to know from your own
account how readily you fall victim to such preoccupations. Let
me remind you, for instance, of the anguish you experience
whenever you expect visitors for the afternoon or the evening.
You fret and worry days in advance, anticipating some bungling
or clumsiness while performing the part of the hostess. You
know that when finally the much dreaded day arrives you feel
troubled and helpless "the very minute" you awaken. The day
stares you in the face as a threat, as an event fraught with
heavy responsibilities. You are without pep or zest. Your vitality
is at a low ebb. A heaviness seems to descend on your
limbs. Everything is done with effort. You have to drag yourself,
feel "all in," exhausted, lifeless, fatigued. Do you understand
that all of this is caused by your preoccupation, and that
the preoccupation is based on the idea of danger ?
P: It is true I am worrying my head off when I expect
guests. People are critical, and it is not easy to please them and
make them feel at home. But we don't have visitors every day,
and there is not a day when I feel relaxed. I am always tired.
E: I mentioned your preoccupation with your guests as an example
only. The example will demonstrate to you that a pre
MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING 321
occupation of this kind is apt to produce, in a split second, a
condition in which you feel "all in," dragging, exhausted and listless.
Being a nervous patient you are always preoccupied with
your disability. This preoccupation is a kind of worry which
hardly ever leaves you. You are always on guard against something
untoward happening in some part of your body. Looking
back on your unhappy experiences of the past ten years you can
recall numerous instances in which you planned a social engagement,
a card game, a show, a trip and were stricken with
a severe head pressure or palpitations or abdominal pain or
numbness. The card game had to be interrupted, or you managed
painfully to go through with it in wretched agony. You
remember the frequent occasions when dinner parties had to
be cancelled because your throat suddenly "locked," and you
were afraid you might not be able to swallow or speak; or the
dances that had to be called off because a heaviness settled on
your legs so that you could hardly walk. It was observations
of this character that in time suggested to you that it was no use
planning. The unpredictable suddenness with which your symptoms
could make their appearance gave you no guarantee that
if you made a plan you could go through with it. Gradually the
inability to plan spread to the trivial chores of everyday life. You
set out to prepare a meal, and your eyes blurred. Or you decided
to darn your husband's socks, and the hands trembled. The
symptoms came without warning. They shot through your
body without cause, without provocation. To use your own
words, you "didn't even have time to think about them." I
may tell you that symptoms which shoot up so unexpectedly,
in a mere fraction of a second, are called "trigger symptoms."
They shoot forth with the rapidity of a bullet after the trigger
has been pulled. Their trigger character makes them appear
weird, mysterious, threatening. In essence, they suggest to you
that you have utterly lost control of your primitive bodily functions.
Having noticed time and again that your organs may go
on a rampage without warning you feel you cannot trust your
body. You must always be on the alert for some sudden disturbance.
You cannot plan with any assurance of carrying out
322 MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING
your decisions. But if you are deprived of the power to plan,
your day is carried on without accomplishment. Moreover, without
planning, you miss that singular joy of looking ahead to
accomplishments. The joyous trembling of watchful anticipation is
taken from your daily routine. Life becomes a never-ending
drabness and drudgery. It is this type of life that you look forward
to when you awaken in the morning. In a flash, before
you had "time to think about it," the dismal dreariness of your
existence stares at you. Again one of those empty days with
no plans, no decisions, no accomplishments. You become
discouraged, disgusted with the dead monotony that is in store
for you, and it is the self-disgust that robs your tissues of their
vitality. There is no vigor, zest or incentive with which to
start out on the daily routine. Your body is devoid of stimulation;
it feels uninspired, flabby, limp. This feeling of limpness
you call "fatigue." You will now understand why towards
evening your vitality returns and why, after supper, you "feel
almost well." There is nothing left for planning after supper,
no drabness to be anticipated, no drudgery to be performed in
self-disgust. The dreadful day is gone or going. Nothing is
expected of you any more. You breathe freely now, and your
vitality returns. Do you realize now that what you call "fatigue"
is nothing but a psychological reaction to the anticipated and
dreaded boredom of daily existence? Do you understand that
the tiredness of which you complain is not in your muscles but
in your mind?
P: You are right, doctor. I realize now that everything you
say is exactly as I feel it. My mornings are dreadful. I have
nothing to look forward to. I can't plan; I am afraid to plan.
You are right, doctor, but why was I never told what is wrong
with me? I have seen all kinds of physicians, and the one
told me I was suffering from nervous exhaustion, another said
my energy was running down, and I should take it easy. One
blamed it on my thyroid gland; another told me I had a poor
constitution and he couldn't do anything about it. I was warned
not to overwork, was told to take long periods of rest, to go on
trips and vacations. If you say that my trouble is nothing but
MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING 323
boredom and disgust why did nobody tell me that before?
It would have spared me ten years suffering, and I could have
saved thousands of dollars spent on cures, sanitariums and trips.
E: It is painful for me to answer this question. I do not
like to be critical of what other men think or believe. Unfortunately,
there are superstitions that refuse to die. One of them,
very preposterous and pernicious, is the myth of nervous fatigue
or nervous exhaustion. All I can tell you is that, in 1880, a New
York physician formulated the absurd theory that a group
of patients whom he called "neurasthenics" suffered from a state
of nervous exhaustion.* How uncritical this man was is evident
from the fact that he did not hesitate to make unwarranted and
extravagant claims, for instance, that the "disease runs in families,"
that it is due to inheritance, that it has its origin in the
spine, that it is typically American and, hence, proposed to call
it "American Nervousness." Somehow this fanciful idea spread
all over the globe and is still widely accepted today as a message
of scientific truth. I cannot tell why a theory of this kind has
been permitted to figure in textbooks and to be practiced on
hapless sufferers. All I can state is that superstitions are born
easily but die with difficulty. I do not blame you for feeling
resentful of the unnecessary hardship that was imposed on you
during ten long years of anguish. But resentment will not help
you. It will only serve to whip up your emotions and throw
an additional load on your nervous system. What you need is
re-education. You must learn to reject as untrue all the silly
notions that were crammed into your head and to accept the
explanation which I gave you. Up to now, with the thought of
exhaustion in your brain, you were afraid to move, to work,
to tax your "weak" muscles. I take it for granted that henceforth
you will throw to the winds all this drivel about nerve
exhaustion and will not hesitate to tax your muscles to your
heart's delight.
P: You told me that before, and I made every effort to accept
your view. On many mornings I jumped out of bed with-
*George M. Beard, A Practical Treatise on Nervous Exhaustion
(Neurasthenia), New York, 1880, William Wood.
324 MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING
out paying attention to my fears. I ignored the heaviness in my
muscles and did my work, but it was certainly difficult. Your
assurance that the fatigue is in the brain and not in the muscles
helps me at times. But after I continue with my work for
awhile the thought strikes me that maybe the other doctors
were right when they warned me not to strain my muscles.
After ten years it seems not easy to shake off the fears.
E: You said you made every effort to accept my views about
fatigue. This is, of course, an exaggerated claim. I do not
expect anybody to make "every" effort in any endeavor. What
you mean is that you tried hard but did not succeed. But remember,
Evelyn, I never asked you to "accept my views." I
asked you to practice them. My view with regard to "nervous
fatigue" is that you can safely ignore it, that it is a bugaboo
and not a real danger. This view cannot be "accepted" and,
as it were, placed in your brain there to preside over your
actions. In order to make a view direct your action it must
be acquired, digested and absorbed through patient practice.
This is true of every sphere of life in which you wish to plant
views into the thoughts and brains of a person. In bringing
up your children you did not merely present them with lovely
notions and lofty principles, asking them to accept them. These
views had to be practiced, again and again, till finally they
were incorporated and lived and experienced and acted out
spontaneously. When you intended to make your boy adopt
the view of group responsibility you did not tell him to accept
your principle of group behavior. Instead, you told him not
to make noise in the presence of people. You urged him to
say "thank you" and "please." This you did for months and
years until finally the new habits took root. After ceaseless
practice your boy finally incorporated the view in his system,
made it part of his organism. The practice made the view
"sink in" and take its firm place in the brain from where it
then directed action. In this process of child training you influenced
your boy's muscles and through them established a
firm structure of habits. It was these good habits that represented
your view. You understand now that I asked you to
MENTAL HEALTH THROUGH WILL-TRAINING 325
practice my view, not merely to accept it. The continued practice
would have brought acceptance in its train. You will perhaps
remember what precisely I asked you to do. I told you
to jump out of bed and to go about your work, fatigue or no
fatigue. But I also warned you to avoid all actions that embody
the view of danger, I specifically instructed you not to look in
the mirror to watch your so-called fatigue in your anxious
features. I asked you to avoid the practice of touching the
muscles of your arms and legs to investigate the degree of
their flabbiness. I cautioned you not to sit down after a few
steps or a few manipulations. Most important, I enjoined you
not to complain about your fatigue, not to moan or sob, not
to ask for help or sympathy. If you had complied with these
instructions you would have established a new set of habits
of how to deal with this legendary thought of nervous fatigue.
The old habits of fear would have been crowded out of your
mind, and a new set of constructive trends would have settled
down or sunk into your brain. My view would then have
occupied and taken possession of your brain without any effort
on your part to accept or adopt it. If you say that "after ten
years it is not easy to shake off the fears" I shall advise you
that you had no business assuming that it might be easy. Mere
acceptance of a view is easy, but practicing it means sustained
application with endless trials and endless failures till finally
you score the ultimate success. You thought of merely accepting
a view. That would have been easy but ineffectual. What
I wanted you to do was to practice, i.e., to direct your muscles
to carry out my view. I presume that after tonight's interview
you will no longer entertain the unrealistic notion that mere
lip-service to a principle -will reestablish a new set of habits.
Practice alone will do that. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 13:42:31
everyone here that has posted to you sylvia is key to your healing-if you listen to them-believe with all your heart that this is as true as the car you drive in; then you will heal-i did not believe this at all 14 weeks ago ,and then i thought why not try it,then i felt the pain move -and it started to lesson little by little and now im completely healed .its like someone tells you they bought you something and you say ill believe it when i see it-well if you put in the work sylvia you really will see it-ive been going over ace1 keys to healing today to stay tuned in /at first the keys seemed to be bewildering but if you read post here as already suggested and do the work the keys to healing will heal you-journaling really helped me too but you might be different-take the steps and work them and they will work for you and get sarnos book healing back pain -its the work that heals-this sound like a lot and it is-theres no quick fix-it takes all the ambition you got-dont put a time limit on the healing either,it will come/ |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 12:29:31
Read my keys to recovery on this forum, THe problem is more of a strain to things that bother you or from habits you may have acquired such as being in a rush. If you dont treat it as such you may never get better. I know if I didnt treat it this way, I would have never really improved. Also the affirmations help you achieve this goal more easily |
| balto |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 11:15:21
quote:
Originally posted by Sylvia
I've had CFS for 24 years, unable to work. Tried everything. Tried Sarno. Didn't improve, always a backlash from forcing activity.
24 years and the conventional medicine can not help you at all, why not invest a %100 of yourself to tms/anxiety method for a year. (have to be %100 for it to work).
Activities can not be force, the cause is psychogenic but the symptoms are real. be gentle to yourself. elliminate all negative thoughts from your mind. Focus on the positive. Focus on having fun, being happy, and most of all, don't ever fear your symptoms.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 11:03:21
I just got the book and I'm gonna read and read. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 10:52:10
Hi Sylvia,
Glad you stayed. Will chat after thanksgiving.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Sylvia |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 10:47:43
Thanks, that was really fast!
Well I was here maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I don't know what my name was then, and my computer didn't hold onto it and the password. So I'm new but not new.
It IS completely ridiculous to have the same level of energy, sometimes better sometimes worse but ever the same for decades. It is unnatural and telling that it ought to be tms.
I began to walk /jog, because of Sarno to prove to myself but that never lasted long. But I was able to do it and felt happy and good doing it, yet I never had the energy doing that to do anything else but rest. Seriously even with a gun to my head you may as well have shot me because I couldn't force myself to "go on".
I did Gupta program for CFS, hoping that would work.
Anyways, I got to where symptoms where moving around and such and I was so positive and sure, YET I couldn't budge the fatigue. I tried for months (I know many are here for months or years applying the tms program) and maybe I gave up too soon.
This broken aerobic system, which can't be consiously faked how does TMS do that when with Fibromyalgia they don't have this abnormality? It isn't even epidemic because this is new research. Unlike the MRI in pain syndromes that people show pain in odd places, and pain free people even have worse mri's, this aerobic thing with blind results can predict how energy disabled a person is.
I do not have problems with showers or normal household stuff.
There are plenty more CFS symptoms than exercise intolerance, and those I'm sure are instant TMS manifestations.
Obviously pain syndromes outnumber fatigue syndromes by a lot. So there is just so much more compelling evidence to me about that being tms.
I dunno. I WAS convinced albeit shorterm, but not seeing a change that lasts, eroded the confidence. If only hundreds could say, yup it cured me of cfs, but without that, it is hard for me on this bit of aerobic information I've had for some years. But what if? What if I kept going with Sarno/SteveO UNTIL.
Thanks for not blowing me off, and I hope this was helpful as an introduction. |
| Peregrinus |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 10:22:03
Sylvia:
It may be difficult for you to accept but Dave is right on.
I looked at the links you provided and it appears that the CFS experts use xygen uptake levels as a primary diagnostic tool. Oxygen levels in the blood are affected by a long list of hormones which are released in response to emotions via the autonomic nervous system. The same is true for blood pressure. Just because some type of measurement can be made doesn't imply you have a physiological deficit.
SteveO provides an excellent explanation of this in his book.
Good luck. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 10:10:12
Hi Sylvia,
There are many people here that can possibly help you. One of the first things people establish is: “Have they got TMS?” Normally after a few posts this becomes apparent.
However there are many new users who post just once and disappear, without even commenting or acknowledging the replies, such is life. With this in mind, one hour of their time investigating your links and a posting answer to you would be a waste of their time.
How about an intro with just one question? I would encourage you to stay, read some of the testimonials in the Success Stories. And most of all welcome.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Dave |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 09:33:01
Hate to say it, but your message seems a bit defiant, as if you are intent to view your CFS as a "real" disorder and demand others to prove otherwise.
You say that you "tried Sarno" but what exactly does it mean? Based on your message, it does not seem as if you ever truly accepted that CFS = TMS.
I'm afraid this is not the mindset from which true relief is born. At minimum you need to "act as if" you believe 100% in the TMS diagnosis and devote yourself to the treatment for an extended time. I'm not sure if you have done that.
As for the studies you cite, there are tons of valid research studies on a wide variety of TMS syndromes that on the surface appear to "prove" the symptoms have a truly physical cause and are not "in the mind." However, Dr. Sarno does not dispute that the symptoms are "real" and these studies are bound to find the evidence they seek. The real question is, do they prove the cause of the pathological changes that have been witnessed, or just the fact that those pathological changes occur? There is no doubt that CFS provides evidence of its existence in the form of chemical changes to the body. Dr. Sarno believes those chemical changes are caused by the mind. No modern medical study will ever admit that.
I feel for what you have been going through and hope that you find relief. Perhaps you are ready to truly accept the TMS diagnosis. But if you need further "proof" beyond Dr. Sarno and SteveO's books, then I'm afraid you might come up empty. Recovery is a highly personal journey and it has to start with your own unbiased acceptance of the diagnosis, even if you come to that acceptance somewhat reluctantly. |
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