| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| PJ77 |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 06:57:47
Hi all.
I'm still having much difficulty in making any sort of improvement to my life in terms of my severe back pain and continuous back spasms.
I wanted to ask about overcoming conditioning. I have had countless spasms when bending. Please would you advise on how to overcome this. I have been using positive affirmations when bending and it does help but when spasms have sneaked through they have really affected my confidence.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| PJ77 |
Posted - 11/08/2012 : 04:15:15
LOL Tennis Tom that will be quite some sight! It will be great if you can video it and broadcast it on the net, the laughter would do me good! |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 07:22:25
quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
...Tennis Tom I have re-read pages 108-110 of Steve's book regarding breaking his conditioning habit when sitting. I am conditioned to get pain also when I get up from a chair or other object that I am sitting on .
... Today when getting up of the chair I punched myself 3-4 times very hard on my forearm. I have repeated this a few times. So far everytime I have got up my focus goes on the forearm - I am hoping this has broken this conditioning!
Alright PJ77! I'm rootin' for ya'. I don't sit down during the 90 second changeovers in tennis because my hip locks up and it takes me five minutes to thaw it out again. I will try sitting down today and then punching myself in the butt a few times or whacking myself with the racket--a little self-induced Rolfing. |
| PJ77 |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 03:44:22
Thank you all for your replies and advice, I am going to print it off and start to work on them.
Tennis Tom I have re-read pages 108-110 of Steve's book regarding breaking his conditioning habit when sitting. I am conditioned to get pain also when I get up from a chair or other object that I am sitting on . I had been using affirmations to get over this but again when in tension it was not working. Today when getting up of the chair I punched myself 3-4 times very hard on my forearm. I have repeated this a few times. So far everytime I have got up my focus goes on the forearm - I am hoping this has broken this conditioning! |
| Racer |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 20:43:50
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Racer, it is variable for different people depending on how suggestable your mind is and how severely conditioned you are, but it can take years to be fully cured. You may say I dont want to spend years, well I ask what is the alternative? There is no alternative, so give it the time it needs and you will get better. And it is a spectrum, meaning even though it may take years, you will be better and better through the process and be able to live better through it all
I decided to let it go not fixing any time for cure. I came to know about TMS only couple of weeks back. Already this forum and the 2 books of Dr. Sarno are a great source of help for me.
As I practice this conditioning, in the last few days, if anybody talks little louder at me, I hear the sound amplified and jarring. I'm no longer able to take it. Are these some initial symptoms we see when we start on conditioning?
All these days living a good guy, sacrifice and live for others, avoiding conflicts, etc, now when I close my eyes, sit alone and realize, I can easily visualize how much I tolerated in life.
I started saying "Don't swallow something which you don't like, spit it out instead". |
| balto |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 16:41:05
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
actually healing is a spectrum and there is always room for greater improvement with this and the more you try to help, the more it will help you master it.
This is so true. I have learned so much in my short time here at the forum. Thing I learned that I can share with others in my community. Thanks to all that shared.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 15:27:27
quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
Maybe I have not got my stress levels down to a level to really move forward and need to work on that also.
It is not always a question of the amount of stress in your life, but also how you deal with that stress. This is linked to your personality traits, which Dr. Sarno talks about as being an important component in the onset of TMS symptoms. I recommend that you read this brief article by Peter Zafirides, M.D.http://www.thehealthymind.com/2012/11/03/our-reaction-to-stress-not-stress-itself-predicts-future-health/
After reading this article, ask yourself the question, "How do I react to stressors?" Don't concentrate merely on the stressor, which may never go away, but how you are reacting to it. The focus has to be inward in this exercise and not just outward. Sometimes we may seem cool, calm and collected on the outside (possibly due to goodism, wanting to be seen as on top of things) but inside we are fuming.
Healing from TMS is an exercise in introspection. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 10:48:14
Racer, it is variable for different people depending on how suggestable your mind is and how severely conditioned you are, but it can take years to be fully cured. You may say I dont want to spend years, well I ask what is the alternative? There is no alternative, so give it the time it needs and you will get better. And it is a spectrum, meaning even though it may take years, you will be better and better through the process and be able to live better through it all |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 10:45:25
Andy,
I am really glad that what I and others are telling you is helping. Thanks for sharing that example, it is a perfect example of what I'm trying to get at and how it works. My only form of repayment for my advice, is that I need feedback to see if what I am saying is accurate across the board and if there are suggestions that could make it better. Also the feedback on the forum encourges others to proceed with this type of treatment and leads to more cures. Many people when they get better, dont come back here anymore, they got the help from us, but yet would like to spend theor time doing other things now that they are better. I dont think this is right, actually healing is a spectrum and there is always room for greater improvement with this and the more you try to help, the more it will help you master it. |
| Racer |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 10:25:48
Gentlemen,
quote:
You can still do you activities of daily living while in pain but don't do them to challenge the pain. Try to bring down you tension level first if possible then proceed.
I like the car sponge/eye dropper example.
I took too much tensions in my life. When I check my blood pressure, for no reason, I have seen my diastolic going over 100, when the optimum number for diastolic is only 80. While reading Dr. Sarno's book, where he mentioned chronic pain is nothing but "advanced" TMS.
Howe difficult or easy to "condition" the mind for the advanced TMS cases? |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 10:25:35
Hi PJ 77,
I remember doing lines in school, and I notice Bart Simpson did also. Try writing out 25 times the following:
“ There is nothing wrong with my back even if it spasms”, or something similar to this.
To be more effective write it out freehand. I hope this TMS trick works for you.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 10:11:57
Hi PJ77,
Having gone through many layoffs, (through no fault of my own!), I used to wake up with terrible guilt-anxiety, based on looking for a job and income worries. It was always worse on Monday mornings. My 45 years of conditioning to go to work was really in my face.
I retired recently and I had exact same anxieties. What I did to correct this quirky trait was one Monday morning go on the back porch and spend the whole day reading a book on a comfy chaise-longue. I forced myself to stay there until I had finished, thinking affirmations all day long. It was a really a very good book and fun reading, I remember how nice it was basking in the California sun.
I replaced anxiety with pleasure. I no longer have this problem. I think affirmations normally take longer to be effective, but this shows how powerful they can be.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 09:17:51
To see what it can take to decondition from TMS pain read SteveO, pages 108-110, under the heading titled "Here Boy, Sit Boy--Good Boy..." to see how he de-conditioned himself from TMS pain while sitting. You may want to take a couple of aspirins before reading it. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 09:17:33
i had the same issue pj77-all the replys here r correct-i just kept with the program and anytime i heard of a new way id try it -if it worked id keep it -if not id try it later-it was the tension -release moments that helped me know i was on track-steveos post to this problem-aces post -tennis tom-and so many others helped me to get where i am at three months later-this might sound quick but overall i suffered twenty five yrs and to get results like this in such a short period of time has been miraculous-dont forget i did this all day 24 7.its good to back off and enjoy times without all the studies but i enjoyed the studies because of the results-im backing off some now so i can get over the last hurdle which isnt much-just stay the course friend at your own pace with patience and results will appear -god bless... about the bending-i had the same issue-i had to tell myself a thousand times its not real-its not going to hurt etc...then i started believeing my affirmations and now i have no problems in this area....how ya doing my friend tt-good to hear your always here to help...thanks again friend for all youve done for me and this whole forum-i cant say that enough....and as always steveo and ace1-you guys r gonna be in the history books.... |
| balto |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 08:53:47
it is difficult to heal your tms when life stress is still high. Under stress our human brain naturally looking for and focusing on the negative. It is an automatic process. You shouldn't fight with your pain, the pain is there to remind us that our life is not balance, there is more stress than happiness right now and we need to help our mind feel content, peaceful, and happy.
Ace1 and Steve gave wonderful advises, you will be heal if you can follow them. I just want to add that you should also need to add more happiness to life. Or atleast try to live a carefree life. Try to laugh at danger and hardship. Sometime we need to look around the world and see that we are very blessed compare to many, we are having a very good life compare to millions people around us.
Spend all your energy accepting stress or over come it instead of focusing on your pain. Goodluck PJ.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| PJ77 |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 06:06:01
Thank you Ace, Steve and Shawnsmith for your excellent and very supportive comments. It is clear that this is going to take time and that odd setbacks are going to happen depending on stress levels. The problem I have had is I am so conditioned to get pain when bending that I try and avoid it, but as you have all said belief is the key and there is no way to trick your brain. I do believe physically there is nothing wrong with my back but so many times spasms have occurred that have scarred me mentally.
Maybe I have not got my stress levels down to a level to really move forward and need to work on that also.
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 15:47:08
There is a lot of solid advice in this thread, and I would like to highlight what I feel are the most important nuggets of insight.It seems to me they are dealing with inward motivations (ie why is a person partaking in a particular activity) which we are not always consciously aware of, but which has the potential to undermine our efforts:
Ace1 writes:
"....challenging just the symptom does not take care of the root cause..."
"Challenging the pain is a form of trying to escape the situation."
"You can still do you activities of daily living while in pain but don't do them to challenge the pain. Try to bring down you tension level first if possible then proceed."
SteveO writes:
"If you're stretching to get rid of pain, or to challenge it, then you're playing into your brain's strategy. It wants this focus to keep you thinking about body--to keep TMSing."
"Don't let your pain change what you want to do, but don't go after it."
"Like stretching, do it because it feels good, not to attack something." |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 11:02:13
Thanks Steve as always for your valuable comments. I just want to add one more thing. John kehoe in his book mind power actually says you don't have to believe the affirmations for them to work. I think what he's getting at is that if you force yourself or force a feeling you actually create more tension and it can be counterproductive. I do think it is better to try to 'talk the talk and walk the walk'', but only if it comes naturally. In my case I even said them mindlessly at times and felt they had a good effect. You also have to believe that in the long run they will work. John kehoe says it takes at least 30-60 days to even just begin to see an affect from mind power techniques. I hope this helps. |
| SteveO |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 10:38:50
This takes time PJ, but re-conditioning does happen over time.
I use an example of a giant sponge when working with people. Think of a sponge the size of a car. This sponge needs to be soaked thoroughly before change occurs. But the new information you're pouring in through your prefrontal cortex is like using an eye dropper. Each day you may drop a few drops into this giant sponge to try to soak it and alter your brain's behavior. But there are days the sponge begins to dry out (doubts) and you have to start over. The less you doubt, the more the sponge accepts. So you can imagine, that this new knowledge often takes patience and time to soak the sponge enough to alter your brain's behavior.
Keep pouring thoughts and new impulses of information and energy into your mindbody. Once accepted, the sponge is soaked, and the healing has occurred.
Life is a series of walking fine lines and this is no exception. Sometimes you want to do something repeatedly, and other times you don't. It's very much like the stretching, your deeper self knows why you're stretching. If you're stretching to get rid of pain, or to challenge it, then you're playing into your brain's strategy. It wants this focus to keep you thinking about body--to keep TMSing. You stretch if you want flexibility, or because it feels good. You can do any motion repeatedly if you want to perfect the act, not to attack the pain. Don't let your pain change what you want to do, but don't go after it. Anger begets anger, as hate begets hate.
With affirmations, your brain also knows why you're doing it. Do you believe your affirmation? If you don't, then you're challenging your pain. Say the affirmation because it's what you want, not to challenge anything. I spoke with affirmation experts who told me that people can more deeply ingrain the unwanted if they don't believe in what they're affirming, a guided imagery of negative. They felt this was why prayers didn't always work. The more you say something, or feel something, the more deeply you lodge it into your subconscious, either positive or negative. Also, remember, thinking positive does nothing at all. It's whistling past the graveyard.
So make sure you believe, or want, what you're affirming. Like stretching, do it because it feels good, not to attack something. Take the little light of knowledge that you have of TMS, and affirm it to expand upon it.
I remember I couldn't bend enough to touch my knees with my hands. Then one day, I began thinking about what Dr. Sarno was saying, and focusing hard on that, I bent over to touch the floor with no pain. I didn't focus on challenging my back, but on the words, "there's nothing wrong with my back...I'm ok...bloodflow reduction." I took the light that I knew and used it. From that point on I could touch the floor. But it was because I lost my fear of harming my back that day. I'll never forget it. I affirmed new impulses of information and energy into my thought repertoire, and flew high enough to touch the ground.
You must believe your internal words can come true. It may sound cliche, or out of a Disney movie, but it works!
Steve |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 09:12:33
Also remember the affirmations are more so directed toward peace and comfort than making something work better. The working better comes along with the unconscious relaxation which take time. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 09:07:22
Ok remember the affirmations take time. You will see that in certain situations you'll be able to bend fine and in others you just know that bending will be painful. What can you do in this situation when you know bending will hurt. In the past I would try bending over and over to show I'm not scared. This never worked for me. Why? Well the reason is bc you are somehow mentally conditioned to the situation (revved up to it) and challenging just the symptom does not take care of the root cause, but just revs you up more. So in this situation you have to unconsciously relax about the situation through the affirmations and not adding more fuel to the fire and just siting through it and trying to become comfortable with it without trying to escape. Challenging the pain is a form of trying to escape the situation. Now you may tell me that there is no time where bending doesn't cause pain and I think that just means that your afraid of bending in itself or your degree of tms is very advanced and all that means is that you just have to take my word on it and do what I said before all day. Look at my key to healing on a different post. You can still do you activities of daily living while in pain but don't do them to challenge the pain. Try to bring down you tension level first if possible then proceed. |
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