| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SteveO |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 18:29:48
Ace I just read your recovery synopsis, very nice. It's generous of you to share it. Every time people see that others have done something, their deeper selves are more readily willing to accept it. They know they could heal too. From one candle to another the light is passed.
I agree that challenging the pain at some level is detrimental. I repeatedly said that fighting a war against myself was only setting me back. There are many things that Dr. Sarno said that I believe are increasingly misinterpreted; another being "thinking psychologically."
I took Dr. Sarno's "one must confront it, fight it, or the symptoms will continue" as something lesser, in the end. It should have been, "never let the pain alter your plans, and never give in to its purpose." But how do you rally the team to fight if you don't give a peptalk? Stay physical for health's sake only, not as a tool to defeat pain. Defeating pain is not the goal, or it becomes paradoxical.
The physicality does reduce the fear, for most, and did reduce fear for me. Knowing you will not get worse is yet another piece of the healing puzzle. If people feel they are getting worse when pain increases, then that's problematic to healing.
So lies the conundrum, as more time and dollars are spent seeking answers that are already within.
Steve
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| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 08:13:39
The topic of yard work brings back memories, not particularly pleasant ones. At one point my husband and I were having problems. I went to the garden and set about removing some comfrey which is a pig to get rid of. Its roots shoot in every direction and if you don't get it all out, it comes back to haunt you another day. I dug with determination which turned to fury. I was pulling those buggers up, cursing and at one point crying. Another time I had recently fallen out with my brother after a massive argument that I started. I went out and started digging over the vegetable patch in a murderous rage. I ended up a few days later being incapacitated by sciatica.
I really like Ace's point about doing the activity to enjoy it and keeping myself in the present as opposed to ruminating on some event that has long passed. I don't fear garden work but I won't go out there if I am in a bad mood. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 06:33:51
The weird thing is that I've always kind of liked yard work. There's something very zen-like about tending to your own yard. I've been afraid of it in most of my adult life because of the pain that flares up (probably because I was told that pushing a lawn mower and carrying a weed eater were bad for my back because of the heavy vibrations and twisting motions..kind of ridiculous now that I'm thinking "Sarnoly"). But I guess I would have to say that there is some anger around this particular yard because when I bought the lot on which to build the house, I was explicitly told that they would engineer the lot in such a way that I had little to no grade...and that just simply did not happen even though I raised he** about it during the building process and now I just have to live with it. The grade wasn't even a pain consideration at the time...it was about yard usability and functionality. Half my yard is utterly useless because of it. Yeah...I'm still pissed about that.
As for mowing SteveO's lawn...I probably would have been more than willing until you said "he's a really nice guy, and smart, too...I'm being facetious, of course..." (funny how points of ellipses can change the entire meaning of a quote).
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Dustin |
| stiwa |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 03:19:15
That was so spot-on, Steveo. When I started deadlifting early this year my knees would hurt all the time. It was not a bad pain, rather a nagging driving-me-nuts soreness. I fought it every second. Then I gave up. I told myself that I will not stop deadlifting and welcome the pain as a friendly reminder that I still have a brain.
Also, I would start focusing on the tip of the small finger of my left hand when I got anxious. I would tell myself: Yeah I know the pain in my knees is bad but it doesn't mean anything and that finger tip is so interesting. (That makes it sound funnier than it was. I really tried to feel that finger tip though.)
One day I walked down my street to go to work and I suddenly realized that the pain was gone.
There is one thing I would like to ask you, SteveO. What if you break out in hives from mowing the lawn but you don't have any idea as to what you could do instead? What if what you are truly afraid of is the big black nothing that comes once you have sold the lawn mower. Or worse: what if selling the lawn mower means you will have to cut the grass with scissors?  |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 21:57:09
quote:
. It truly is an unconscious, skewed, thought related, obsession-based phenomenon.
er... yeah! In UK High School it was pretty common knowledge on my side of the pond that if you had spots (zits) on your face, you should just focus on your bum, and they would move there.
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 21:55:35
In UK High School it was pretty common knowledge on my side of the pond that if you had spots (zits) on your face, you should just focus on your bum, and they would move there.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| eric watson |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 21:20:26
Thats awesome steveo-humor is healing-it really works bro-the focusing on my mid back tends to get my mind off the focus of a laser beam on my lower back-and in return the pain in my lower back just stops or doesnt start-it hasnt jumped to my mid back yet and i really hope it doesnt-but if it does ill focus somewhere else or use the power i got from this knowledge to win either way-it was truly an uh-huh moment when i read that scenario-yea ace is awesome with his positive outlook-its true ya know-and dustin has always been an inspiration to me-thanks steveo and if any one needs a free mowing just holla-its getting exciting to not fear the mower -god bless |
| SteveO |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 20:17:31
I think everyone is missing the bigger question here. And that question is, "will Dustin mow my lawn?" The answer is yes, I'm sure he would if we asked him, he's a really nice guy, smart too. I had the pleasure of talking to him on the phone for quite a while.
I also spoke with Dr. Zafirides on the phone. He, on the other hand will not mow my lawn. I'm being facetious of course, I never asked him, but he probably would. He's a great guy too who truly cares about changing how the medical industry addresses these problems that are clearly emotional in nature. He's doing his best to change the cultural paradigm of today's healthcare.
Eric, how did the focusing on your mid-back work? I lasered my attention there one day (in a moment of clarity)and my pain jumped right where I was focusing. It was the first time in my life that my pain left my low back. It truly is an unconscious, skewed, thought related, obsession-based phenomenon.
Ace is spot on again. We are often annoyed at doing things but repression is ever present; allowing us to function without really knowing if we like what we are doing. People have asked me how they can know if they are repressing things that they don't want to do. The answer is relatively simple. If you're not having symptoms then you're probably enjoying what you're doing. If you break out in hives, and pain, and ulcers, then you might want to sell the lawn mower.
Steve |
| eric watson |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 19:15:56
This is so true-i just got done cutting my yard with a mower that wants to fight back and i have to pull and push really hard-i finished the whole yard though all the while thinking about the knowledge i heard from this forum-i would start to get pain and then i would focus on something that might be causeing anger or anxiety-then i would counter that with good thoughts of peace and paitience-then i would focus on another part of my back like steveo said the upper middle part that didnt hurt-i hadnt stretched all day so after about an hour of cutting i did some light stretchs -all of this combined with not letting any of it over ride me to impatience and i finished the whole yard for the first time in over a yr -to where i would usually cut half and then the other half-any other time i would think about the pain as i came in to cool off-this time i thought about things i needed to do for the rest of the night-the way i thought before i ever got hurt and now an hour later i havent had any pain at all-just keeping my mind off the focus of my lower back and thinking in terms of other things like i said above-it worked fine like magic-as you can tell im combining everything for what works best for me and its working-good-luck |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 17:45:17
Dustin what you did is fine. I think if you are undergoing a very tense situation it would be countrrproductive at that point to just challenge pain as you are not taking care of the root. I think you were probably annoyed cutting the grass and you were not in the present state but had only the goal of finishing in your mind. In other words, you were just going through the motions to finish your goal (impatience). You next time need to learn to enjoy the actual act of cutting the grass and be in the present. Don't worry about how long it takes to cut it or when you have to be finished by. Try this and I bet you'll have less pain next time. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 08:19:47
I think I have to thank both SteveO and Ace1 for this thread. In the last couple of days, I found myself flaring up and it coincided with some heavy physical labor (I mowed my yard which has a pretty steep grade on the side...it's a tough lawn to mow!). I KNOW the physical labor didn't make it worse, but my brain used it as a trigger and made it hard to operate normally for a couple of days. Just last night I gave in and asked my wife to get something out from one of the low cabinets for me because I just couldn't bear the thought of bending over to do it (even though bending was NOT making it worse - tricky brain). My wife said, "aren't you supposed to challenge your back?" and I said, "There are mixed reviews on that one...on the one hand you're supposed to think psychological and not physical and try not to avoid physical activity for fear of pain, but on the other hand, Sarno says you shouldn't get too active too soon as the pain can hurt your confidence in the diagnosis." Unfortunately that's where I found myself the past 2 days...struggling with my confidence that it was psychological rather than physical.
But...I do know that it's psychological and I do know that bending isn't making it worse. I mean, for Heaven's sake, if I can bend down all the way to the floor with my knees only slightly bent and stand back up without "lifting with my knees" and experience NO increase in pain, it's obvious that bending doesn't make it worse. I have found that the hamstring and tendons in my left leg have lost a LOT of their flexibility and so I've been trying to stretch them by bending only at the waist to get closer to being able to touch my toes. I'm having a hard time not "being careful" because of my back though. I can actually physically sense that the muscles in my calf are tensing up and spasming, and that some of the sciatic pain isn't actually sciatic pain, but tight and inflexible ligaments and tendons, but the sensations are still similar enough that it tricks my brain just enough to make me doubt at times. Stupid unconscious mind...let me win already!!!
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Dustin |
| balto |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 08:17:04
quote:
Originally posted by art
Peace. Acceptance. Laughter. Compassion (above all to oneself). A serene courage.
That is the formular to cure all MB syndromes. Thanks Art.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| art |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 06:42:30
One fights (so to speak) by letting go of fear. It's fear (much more than rage in my opinion)that is the life's blood of TMS. It need be no more complicated than that. Thinking psychologically, trying to get "to the bottom of things" are in my experience,contraindicated (to use a medical term.)
Peace. Acceptance. Laughter. Compassion (above all to oneself). A serene courage. All most definitely on the TMS self-treatment menu. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 19:02:38
Thanks Steve. That is exactly right you just shouldn't let the pain get in the way of your plans. Stay physical for health's sake. Right . never fight it as now it becomes the focus instead of your tension or strain level. Once arlene feinblatt, dr sarnos psychologist told me you can never actually fight the pain, if you do you will always loose.
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