| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| stevep |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 17:35:18
So I saw Dr. Rashbaum today here in nyc. For those who may not recall off the top of their head, he studied directly with Sarno for a solid few years in the 90's Aside from my goddamn white coat syndrome (happens at any doctor's office), it was an overall good experience. The guy definitely knows what he is talking about and had a good attitude. He listened, examined and palpated me and determined that I do indeed suffer from this beast. He gave me a "daily study guide for TMS patients", and to read it everyday.
My only complaint was that I did not get to ask all of my questions that I had hoped to in the end. I had a list of about 5 or 6. He only had time for 2. He's a busy guy and I can't blame him. One was how to overcome the urge to soothe the pain when it is bad (foam roller, tennis ball, etc.). And the most important one I wanted to ask was about returning to physical activities. But then I noticed it in the end of the study guide that he echoes what Sarno says:
"When the pain is gone, or almost gone, resume physical activities, slowly at first so as not to overwhelm your mind. Take your time, but do it. You have to convince your brain that you know that your body is normal."
This frustrates me being that my pain is pretty bad right now. I have a very tough time not working out for more than a few days. SteveO, after completing chapter 5 in your book, it seems like when your pain was unbearable is when you started jogging and lifting. I am torn between these two schools of thought. You have any insight?
Anyway, he told me to keep working on myself, and if by labor day I am no better, contact him again. He does the individual lectures these days, but is very backed up. The truth is catching on a bit it seems... |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| catmac |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 04:25:12
[quote]Originally posted by SteveO
The essence of shadow work is to forgive ourselves for not being good enough, for failing, for our loved one dying. Those things beyond our control we tend to blame ourselves for. You may even feel guilty for having pain because you know you have it because you're angry, and you feel deep guilt for being angry. Guilt implies that you could have prevented it all, but you couldn't have.
So we can't always work through or express our deepest feelings to those we love to stop our TMS. But we can forgive ourselves for things beyond our control and for being human.
Hi Steve, aaaaaaahhhhhh, I think I may have been barking up the wrong tree with Forgiveness. I have been thinking that I need to forgive my Mum for being ill and leaving me. I didnt really think of it the other way around, that I need to forgive myself for not being able to make her well again. (My mum had a history of depression for 15 years before alzheimers and each time she had a bout of depression I knew we could pull her through it. Alzheimers is a totally different ball game!!)
Steve, you and Dr Sarnos books are amazing. My pain level is now only around 20% since reading your books. I read the healing sections on a regular basis and always pick up on something new. I cant thank you enough for all the support you have given me and others on this forum. You turned my world around from feeling hopeless to hopeful. Keep up the good work (but only after looking after yourself!!!)
Off to watch the Tennis now. First time in 76 years a Brit has made the wimbledon Finals, and a Scot, no less, yipee.
Thanks again, Cat |
| SteveO |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 00:31:12
Cat I'm sorry about your mum. I know the demands of taking care of a loved one. It's painful to see someone who you love, so much, begin to fail. It is the deepest pain of life, and your love for her is obviously deep.
It does not sound like you hate her at all. And I was impressed how well you understood what I had written on expressing conflict. I think many people aren't quite sure why I spent so much time on the shadow-self.
The shadow is our undeveloped self. Everyone has one and it never matures. We can't change it or mature it. We can only learn to accept it and how it drives us to do both good and bad.
You're astute enough to know that the shadow aspect of yourself resents having to take care of her and that you're angry at her for leaving you. These are normal reactions and they stem from the shadow. Most people never recognize this or admit it. But everyone carries a shadow, it resides completely within the unconscious.
You're quite a lady. The strength will be there for you when the time comes.
Now to answer your question about needing to always express your feelings of conflict to those involved. I'm sure you read my section on Nana I Ke Kumu on page 304. This dealt with current family and extended family, and obviously the people must be there and be cognizant or it won't work. This is the best way of handling family issues of health and of love that I've ever seen. But in that box on page 306 I said, "...ego, time and circumstance don't always allow for open communication to occur." By "circumstance" I meant things like your circumstance when a loved one has either died, or isn't aware, and there was no opportunity to sit and resolve anythings that we left undone or unsaid in the relationship.
It's not always possible so you're right again. In that same box I said when we can't express the conflict away in our hearts we are still left with the grace of forgiveness and understanding. Much of that forgiveness is in you forgiving yourself for feeling you haven't done enough but also in feeling bad about yourself for resenting the added burden. No matter how much we love someone our undeveloped shadow will resent the demands made on us.
The essence of shadow work is to forgive ourselves for not being good enough, for failing, for our loved one dying. Those things beyond our control we tend to blame ourselves for. You may even feel guilty for having pain because you know you have it because you're angry, and you feel deep guilt for being angry. Guilt implies that you could have prevented it all, but you couldn't have.
So we can't always work through or express our deepest feelings to those we love to stop our TMS. But we can forgive ourselves for things beyond our control and for being human.
I hope that makes some sense.
Steve |
| catmac |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 14:42:41
quote:
Originally posted by stevep
I am indeed very conflicted, unhappy with certain things, and wish things would change for me. And I absolutely have things burning inside of me that are looking to be expressed to some people but really cannot. You're a very keen man. Is it absolutely necessary to actually express such conflicts to said people, or will recognizing that this is the crux of where my pain comes from eventually suffice if I continue to change the way my brain works?
Hi Stevep, I too would be interested to see if Steve O thinks that it is neccessary to express conflicts to the people involved. My guess is that sometimes and sometimes not.
My thoughts are if it is an ongoing close relationship that would benefit from total honesty then having that conversation could well be worth it long term and therefore there would be no reason for the pain........but relationships are not all that straightforward.
I cant do this in my own situation as I know my pain is caused by my mum having alzheimers.(she is not aware she has alzheimers) I cant imagine my life without her. I know that I am 'absolutely blazing mad' that my mum has alzheimers and I am slowly losing her. I'm angry with her for leaving me and also resent the amount of time I now need to spend with her. I know I have to work through the anger and 'forgive' her for being ill and then I'm sure the pain will get better although I am not there yet........(Steve O's chapter on forgiveness is excellent)
I'm aware that what I have written above makes me sound like I hate my mum.I love her but wanted to be totally honest and just show a situation where discussion with the person is not an option.
Love Cat
|
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 08:59:01
You have something very important to express to someone that for some reason you can't.
CHECK
You're deeply conflicted and unhappy.
CHECK
You want something to change,
CHECK
you desire something,
CHECK
you don't like something,
CHECK
your current situation is frustrating,
CHECK
or you lost someone you love.
CHECK CHECK CHECK CHECK
I have kept going to the gym no matter what, and I do weights with a trainer who knows to push me through my complaints, within reason. I generally feel better afterwards, but more importantly, this has gotten me "off" the belief that there is something structurally wrong with my body or back.
However, because of the above CHECKS, the TMS has moved into the fatigue realm, clever buggah, but that's a story from another thread.
Thanks, guys.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| stevep |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 18:00:09
I didn't bring an MRI as I have never had one. I did bring him x rays though which in his words were "not the best quality he's ever seen". But regardless, he told me that if I really wanted an MRI he could schedule me for one, but he didn't see the point. He is certain that I suffer from the beast. |
| Aussie |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 17:32:27
Congrats on the TMS diagnosis stevep!. No matter how bad your current pain is you can relax and put your mind at ease as the pain will go. Out of interest did you take MRI scans etc in to see Dr. Rashbaum? And what did he say about them?
Im interested in hearing how a TMS doc interprets them?
Thanks and good luck with your TMS healing. |
| stevep |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 16:16:28
Thanks Steve and barberboy, that helps. I actually went today. Hit the bags for a while first. That usually feels good. To let some aggression out at least. There's actually a guy who talks to me there in the boxing area. Retired cop, about 50 yrs old. He hits hard and is in great shape. However afterwards he has complained to me about getting older and the horrible pains that come along with it. Part of me wants to tell him about the beast, but I don't really know him that well and I can read him as probably not the most open minded kinda person. Real old school Bronx kinda guy, ya know?
Anyway, I did some lifting afterwards. Pretty much just machines. Not too heavy. I've got to do something, you guys know how it is. As has been discussed, the guilt that comes with not working out at all just plain sucks. I also stretched afterwards. They've got this flexibility machine at my gym where you lay back, put your outstretched leg on the pad, and bring it as high up as 90 degrees if you can using a lever. I go into it now with the mindset that it is perfectly healthy to stretch after working out. But it does feel good, I won't lie.
quote:
Originally posted by SteveO
The more important thing is to dig deeper into why the pain is there. Your body is expressing what you cannot verbally say. You have something very important to express to someone that for some reason you can't. You're deeply conflicted and unhappy. You want something to change, you desire something, you don't like something, your current situation is frustrating, or you lost someone you love.
You may say that you already know these things but you probably don't understand the magnitude of the anger. Your conflict is so dangerous to you and those around you that your brain has created what Dr. Sarno labeled a defense mechanism of pain to protect you and those around you.
These are the things you should be working on. Whether to use this or that or how to lift is putting off the hard work by shifting the issue. Take the reason for the pain away don't try to take the pain away..
This part of your post truly resonates with me SteveO. I am indeed very conflicted, unhappy with certain things, and wish things would change for me. And I absolutely have things burning inside of me that are looking to be expressed to some people but really cannot. You're a very keen man. Is it absolutely necessary to actually express such conflicts to said people, or will recognizing that this is the crux of where my pain comes from eventually suffice if I continue to change the way my brain works? |
| SteveO |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 11:39:28
Steve, it's hard to say exactly what to do. That's why Dr. Sarno never said, "do this this and this." There's no specific formula. But there are common denominators.
If your pain is unbearable at times then its ok to make it through using a comfort device. We have to survive. Just know that the foam rollers or whatever you use are simply soothing you and not curing anything. You have to keep persistent with the Rashbaum study guide and keep integrating the fact the your body is ok physically. This takes time since the brain changes very slowly.
So do what you need to do to get through.
The more important thing is to dig deeper into why the pain is there. Your body is expressing what you cannot verbally say. You have something very important to express to someone that for some reason you can't. You're deeply conflicted and unhappy. You want something to change, you desire something, you don't like something, your current situation is frustrating, or you lost someone you love.
You may say that you already know these things but you probably don't understand the magnitude of the anger. Your conflict is so dangerous to you and those around you that your brain has created what Dr. Sarno labeled a defense mechanism of pain to protect you and those around you.
These are the things you should be working on. Whether to use this or that or how to lift is putting off the hard work by shifting the issue. Take the reason for the pain away don't try to take the pain away.
As far as lifting it's fine to go in and lift light. I mix it up for muscle confusion all the time. Lifting burns tension and builds physical confidence but it can also be used to hide behind. When we find something too painful to face we run to the gym or begin jogging or run and hide behind physical activity, Movement is good and healthy for the mind and body, but it can also be a refuge to hide within. Barberboy and I jumped in and went for it and it worked for us. So there's no right or wrong way. Do what YOU want.
Keep lifting any way you want to. But don't forget to do the hard work. These have been referred to as the "psychologicals." In a perfect TMS world you wouldn't have to do any physical stuff. You could look deeply at the emotional pain and allow it to surface and the pain would fade. But the emotional pain is too dangerous so we let it out slowly over time for our psychological safety.
This is part of the discharge of the freeze response.
You can't do anything wrong physically as long as you don't try to heal physically. But don't forget the tough work, which is the emotional side. This is by far the tougher side of healing. If it weren't we would face every situation, but for social reasons we can't, and so we have the face saving grace of giving ourselves physical problems to persevere through the strain of emotional overload.
Steve |
| barberboy |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 05:00:58
Hi stevep,
I agree with SteveO! I too train with weights & I've had TONS of tms issues over the years! Low back, shoulders, knees, elbows...you name it, I've had it. I thought that it was due to increased poundages plus the fact that I'm almost 46 now.
Get back in the saddle when you're comfortable. There are times that my elbow was so sore that I didn't think I could do anything, but I said "f**k it! I won't let this crap get the best of me" & I go in & train as hard as I can. When I'm getting my grip set for a particularly difficult set (squats, deadlifts), I just look in the mirror & start with my mantras! "I'm perfectly healthy". "It's just mild oxygen depletion". "I'm getting stronger & stronger", etc. I find that it works for me & slowly & surely, I'm getting better.
Don't get too hung up on the foam rolling & a.r.t. techniques, etc! I too come from the school of "muscle imbalances", "scar tissue", etc & I had a tough time letting that s**t go. If you want to FR for a "massage like" feeling, giver, but don't think that it'll prevent/cure your injuries. I did all that stuff & none of it worked for me.
Go at it slowly & keep on doing it, even if you're in some pain. Just dial it back a bit. Stick with it my friend...it does work. |
| stevep |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 21:37:14
*double post |
| stevep |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 21:24:05
Dr. Rashbaum is rounding 50 I believe he mentioned. The main tenderness I felt on palpation was this one spot on my lower right back. I have been feeling it myself for some time though. The other spots were on my buttocks. He checked the strength and reflexes of all of my appendages and pricked me with a pin on my legs. Told me my strength and sensitivity are great. As far as talking, he basically charted out the common internal and external struggles that lead to pressures, which lead to anger, which in turn leads to pain. The examples he used very much rang true for me. Particularly relationships, family, and job (although I suppose these are common for everybody).
Let me ask you SteveO. When it comes to this strong desire to roll out my pains in my leg with the foam roller or ball or lay on the floor when I wake up in the middle of the night with a throbbing calf/hamstring; what should I do? How do I overcome this?
Also, what about going relatively lighter on the weights in the gym? That shouldn't be a problem right? After all.....THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MY BODY!! |
| SteveO |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 19:50:29
Steve,
Thanks for letting folks know what happened. I don't blame you for being a bit frustrated by not being able to ask him more questions. It's the main problem people have with their physicians, the lack of time. People see their lives being on the block when they go into the office and the docs see a unit/client.
A former TMS sufferer told me when she went to see Dr. Sopher that he spent an hour and a half with her. He got deeply into her life and he talked her into grief counseling and she's fine now at 72 years old.
I would have had about 25 questions ready for Dr. Rashbaum one of which would have been, "where's Dr. Sarno?"
As far as when to begin the physical activities I tell people what you just said Rashbaum had on his study guide, to slowly work up the confidence, in fact, I think I just said that here today or yesterday.
But I didn't do that. Part of why I wrote my own story was also to show people the mistakes I made so they wouldn't have to suffer as long as I did. I began the full aggressive assault when I was at the peak of my pain. I had lost over 50 lbs. and could barely stand up. But I decided to begin to get aggressive because the alternative was more suffering. Why would I want to continue suffering?
So in the worst pain I could possibly imagine I began to run. Remember when I wrote that all my years of playing sports was about to pay off? I decided to get tough. But that could very well have caused me so many setbacks and a prolonged healing time. I will never know. In the end I won big time but I can never know how things would have gone had I taken different steps.
So I recommend to people to wait till they feel a little better only for one reason, to not scare them off and destroy their confidence in the TMS concept. I would like to tell them to jump in now, hard and fast, but it could set them back, or even make them turn away if they get worse. And I did get worse on several occasions but each time I did fall back I reached a higher plateau. So it worked for me.
How old is Rashbaum? What else did he say to you? Where did you have pain on palpation?
If you're in bad pain now take a look at your life and where you are. What is causing the loop? The answers are there although they may be painful to see.
Let us know anything else that you talked about.
You will heal, it takes time. I'm excited for you now that you got the TMS rubber stamp of approval. It's go time.
Steve |
|
|
