| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| avik |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 23:28:13
Do you think these two contradict each other?
Is it possible to truly think psychologically whilst forgetting about the pain?
I am trying to "link" any pain that arises to some sort of emotion at that moment (repressed rage, embarrassment, shame, fear, etc.) but this serves to only "remind" me of the pain, that I am trying to forget.
I find this to be somewhat of a paradox.
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| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| balto |
Posted - 05/30/2012 : 15:16:11
quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
Perhaps it's due to my time in practice here in TMS concepts, but I find it doggone near impossible to forget my pain as it's occurring (especially when it's occurring in severe form). And maybe it's a matter of semantics...I can willfully "ignore" it...focus on the emotions, tell myself it's a distraction and that the cause is phsychological rather than physical, but I can't literally forget it until it's gone (or has subsided enough that it's not forcing itself to the forefront of my mind). But that's me. Perhaps with some practice it'll be different.
I remembered to get well I didn't try to "ignore" or "forget" the pain. I don't think it is possible to do, it hurts like hell, how can I forget or ignore it. Doing that just create more resistance and stress for me. I just accepted that the symptoms is there. I acknowledge that I have pain/anxiety, then I just went on focusing my thought on something constructive, happy, anything but the symptoms. Once in a while my focus will drifted back to my pain, I just again acknowledge that the pain is there and re-focus my thought on something else right away.
It is the not focus on the pain that you're trying to get rid of. It is the fear of what that pain, that symptoms will do to you that you want to elliminate.
No fear, no pain. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 05/30/2012 : 11:23:36
Perhaps it's due to my time in practice here in TMS concepts, but I find it doggone near impossible to forget my pain as it's occurring (especially when it's occurring in severe form). And maybe it's a matter of semantics...I can willfully "ignore" it...focus on the emotions, tell myself it's a distraction and that the cause is phsychological rather than physical, but I can't literally forget it until it's gone (or has subsided enough that it's not forcing itself to the forefront of my mind). But that's me. Perhaps with some practice it'll be different.
I have tried focusing on a feel-good spot...hasn't worked for me...but then, maybe I haven't done it right. That pendulum process you describe sounds interesting. Perhaps worth a shot for me.
I just finished MBP and hope that some of his recommendations in there will lead me toward healing. I do feel like I'm making daily progress...even if in small amounts some days...but I had a pretty big set back last night in terms of the pain flaring up to the point of nearly completely disabling me again. I was also having a rough night emotionally. What I was finding particularly frustrating is knowing that it's not the conscious emotions causing the problems...but the unconscious...and so I was trying to make the connection, but overall, last night was anything but successful. Oh well...it's a new day. I think I'm gonna pick up SteveO's book next...so far everyone I've heard that's read or is reading it has liked it.
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Dustin |
| avik |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 18:13:01
Thank you for that info Andy.
quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
I think the "forget your pain" concept is that once it passes...don't live in fear of it happening again...for that fear is another means to the same end of TMS...to distract you from your emotions by focusing your conscious attention on something physical.
Dustin-interesting point here although I respectfully disagree. I HAVE to forget about my pain while its there. This CAN be done. reason being, if it is indeed TMS, forgetting it at times "turns it off". If I dont "forget" about it, it stays....for months at a time.
What I am trying to do is do both things; think and forget, albeit not allow the two to link in my mind. More specifically, When that pain comes I briefly stop what I am doing, think about what emotion could be at play but do so without giving the pain any "credit" for the exercise. I only do this for about 10-20 seconds then I go right back to trying to forget about that pain that was linked to that emotion-to sever the link between the two. For me, the sooner I go back to forgetting, the more I "feel" like I am cutting the link between the emotion and the "faulty" physical response. I think that because I "think" it works...it works.
I dont know if I am explaining this properly as it is a deeply psychological/complex and intangible process in my mind, but it seems to work.
Further, I am now tying this with "the pendulum process" which my Somatic-Experiencing therapist taught me.
Once Ive identified what the emotion is, I quickly "look" at the pain and then focus on a body part that feels healthy/good. Then I go back to focusing on the pain and then back to the healthy body part. I go back and forth, starting with 30-60 second intervals of each side, but lowering my focus on the pain-side by 5 or so seconds, each time I go back to it. This apparently trains the brain to associate that emotion with a healthy feeling, as opposed to one of pain...which ultimately means it has no more physical (painful) representation.
Its a frustrating and time-consuming exercise, but appears to work for me.
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| andy64tms |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 16:47:50
Hi Avik,
Yes they do!
I’m so glad to see you are asking a psychological question. In HBP Dr. Sarno has a few anomalies. Like you, one that bothered me was monitoring your pain, you should forget about it. How can you do this when you are endeavoring to tie it to a specific emotional event? I have the same difficulties as you on this one.
I think we have to be adult about this and say there is a difference between emphatically minute by minute reviewing the different levels of pain and its pattern with obsession and quietly trying to associate a pain event with emotions.
My pain is very different from others. It’s not too bad at all, very low, grinding and consistent and is with me continually. If I hold my head straight no pain. If I move my head side to side pain will intensify at the end of the stretch.
Here is my pain pattern that you asked for, hospital standards 1-10 in very cryptic form:
Pain level when first awaking level 2 my neck is always stiff with a slight headache.
After 10 minutes of neck side stretching and gritting and popping the neck level 1-1/2
After 20 minutes and a cup of coffee level 1
Most of the day it remains at level 1 as I just get on with life, I forget it.
Sometimes it spikes to level 2 after bad situations
After a row or continued stress whether real or perceived in turns into a headache, level 3 or 4
I try mental recognition of what is happening I realize it is TMS but can’t relate. I get daily stress in small doses, as I can worry about anything, sometimes the most trivial events.
I bring it down to level 2 with Yoga stretching, hot baths etc. Treatment yeah.
Sometimes this does not work and it gets worse again to perhaps level 4. I resort to Tylenol PM 2 tablets. This is once or twice a month perhaps.
Last week I swam a mile instead of ½ mile. I came home took a two hour nap. I awoke feeling neck pain level 3, nearing a headache. Once I got moving it dissipated, my muscles had tightened up too much it seemed.
In the ambulance with burst appendix pain level 10, and those nice morphine shots, no pain at all.
In the recovery bed the next day, even with continued morphine shots my neck pain rose to headache level 5 or 6. Those heated towel rolls were so good on my neck. Treatment, I couldn’t care less!
After vomiting at 2 AM at pain level 5 and a few hours of anti nausea shots (morphine side effects) I chose to stop the morphine completely.
After a Benadryl patch and a good night of sleep my neck pain went to level 1. By this time my appendix pain was manageable coming in waves every 20-30 minutes. I must have told both neck and appendix pains I could cope, which I then did.
After 5 days in hospital at home, I became very happy in the aftermath of a shocking experience. As I came down off my morphine perch over the next few days I was high as a kite. Everything was beautiful and wonderful, even the ads on TV. I liken it to a complete brain wash. Pain level 0.
After a week my pain cycled returned to normal as I got back to work.
I’m going windsurfing tomorrow, no cpu access, back in a week.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 11:14:44
I don't find it paradoxical at all. It's like Shari said...you can't really forget your pain as long as it's present. I think the "forget your pain" concept is that once it passes...don't live in fear of it happening again...for that fear is another means to the same end of TMS...to distract you from your emotions by focusing your conscious attention on something physical.
It can be quite difficult, in my limited experience, to think psychologically when that pain is present. And (again in my limited experience) I feel like I make a little more progress each time I have to go through the exercise. There is a specific position that I can sit in right now that should not hurt, but it does. So from time to time, I will sit in that position and pay attention to how the pain presents, and then deliberately focus on my emotions and start "digging" into memories and emotions. I will think about the emotions that surround the circumstances in which the pain presented, but then I'll try to "link" the emotions to something in the past that I may not have realized was a source of inner rage. I can feel the pain move and change as I'm working through the exercise and a couple of times it has gone away completely while still in that position. It's hard not to fear that position, but I combat it and I tell my brain that my conscious mind will win...not my subconscious.
With what I read on one of the other threads you have going...you have plenty in your past that has caused all kinds of TMS crap for you. I applaud your victories thus far and encourage you to keep fighting...in my opinion, you must be close for your current pain to be that persistent. As I describe when my pain is getting really bad..."It's almost like my brain is making a desperate attempt to divert my attention from my emotions".
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Dustin |
| shari |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 00:25:10
I think those two actually complement each other. You can't really forget your pain as long as it's present, so instead of struggling with it, I found it easier to slowly deviate my thoughts from it, first by calmly accepting the pain as a passing nuisance. I then focused on the area where the pain occurred, and then focused on relaxing the muscles or tissues involved. I would then focus on relaxing the veins leading to that area to let the blood flow to it. With a bit of practice and concentration I would actually feel warmth or heat slowly take over the pain. I would then shift my thoughts to whatever had been bothering me, either recently or a long time ago--whatever came to my mind at that moment. After a while, just focusing on the area where the pain occurred and relaxing it made the pain go away. So I think the main point in "thinking psychologically" is to deviate your thoughts from the pain and focus on something else. |
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