| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mala |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 17:50:46
Some of u may know that i've been around since about 2003, i have had periods when the pain has been less but its always back & this time with a vengeance . Previously it was always back pain. Now I have got back pain with irritation of the sciatic nerve. What has freaked me out was this burning pain in my left foot. I thought I had dropped hot water on it but no such luck. I 've been to the Dr. X ray shows Lots & lots of degeneration at the L4/5, L5/S1 levels & a very very arched back. Same old, same old.
I somehow did this to myself. I had been sitting cross legged doing some breathing exercises. My body does not like sitting cross legged too long so i challenged myself & kept at it for 2 weeks. It somehow irritated the nerve. So much for ignoring the pain & pushing on. I thought it was not supposed to get worse!!!!!!
i've done all the reading, the journalling, the ignoring , the talking to the brain thing. I am now stumped and in a very very frightening place. Yes I am really fearing this now.
Also my insides feel sore & irritated ( Tummy & Uterus area
One thing I have noticed & this is absolutely spot on. I really don't think its conditioning either but the hot, wet weather has always been bad for me. That is April till Sept usually, then it becomes dry & without fail it gets better.
At wits end.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| art |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 07:59:05
quote:
Originally posted by mala
Some of u may know that i've been around since about 2003, i have had periods when the pain has been less but its always back & this time with a vengeance . Previously it was always back pain. Now I have got back pain with irritation of the sciatic nerve. What has freaked me out was this burning pain in my left foot. I thought I had dropped hot water on it but no such luck. I 've been to the Dr. X ray shows Lots & lots of degeneration at the L4/5, L5/S1 levels & a very very arched back. Same old, same old.
I somehow did this to myself. I had been sitting cross legged doing some breathing exercises. My body does not like sitting cross legged too long so i challenged myself & kept at it for 2 weeks. It somehow irritated the nerve. So much for ignoring the pain & pushing on. I thought it was not supposed to get worse!!!!!!
i've done all the reading, the journalling, the ignoring , the talking to the brain thing. I am now stumped and in a very very frightening place. Yes I am really fearing this now.
Also my insides feel sore & irritated ( Tummy & Uterus area
One thing I have noticed & this is absolutely spot on. I really don't think its conditioning either but the hot, wet weather has always been bad for me. That is April till Sept usually, then it becomes dry & without fail it gets better.
At wits end.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
I look at the above and I see a classic TMs'er. UNderstand Mala, regarding the cross legged sitting, we must utilize a bit of common sense. We're flesh and blood, and if a position is uncomfortable for you because you're not flexible enough (presumably), then you're asking for trouble by forcing it. We must pick our battle wisely.
It's also important to understand that fear is the clay with which we mold our own symptoms. Monitor your thoughts for a few hours and just see how many of them are fearful in nature. Forget all the journaling; it's probably holding you back. What you need in my opinion ...what we all need at least at a certain point...it escape from our own heads. Live as fearlessly as you can. STOP WORRYING AND OBSESSING ABOUT YOUR BODY.
A healthy, pain free life is easily within your reach. Entirely up to you.
Wishing you the best.
A. |
| mala |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 04:26:03
Hi RSR . Great Post. Many thanks. And to you too Andy.
The kind of journalling I have been doing is the format laid out in the TMS Wiki Structured program. I am more of a talker than a writer. I find it easier to express myself orally than in writing. I am not a great fan of journalling & it does not come to me naturally but the structured program got me started & helped me keep going.
I do some yoga breathing as well & was doing well till like I said in my first post the back got worse from sitting cross legged.
About getting my emotions out. I used to shout & scream a lot in my sleep growing up. And I had a lot of rage. I would lash out at the littlest thing & tell people off, throw stuff etc. When I got married, I would have temper tantrums but my husband just ignored them & would tell me sweetly that there was no point. To be fair though he was right. Its just that I had gotten used to being angry at the smallest thing. I realized that there was no longer any need for the anger especially if I was to make my marriage work. So I am a much less angry person now than I ever was.
I love to dance. In fact I had taken up dancing lessons again a couple of months ago but now I've stopped since the pain started. That is something I truly love.
Andy funny that. I did exactly the same thing.Put on some music & danced around the house. the result was a stiff neck the next day which freaked me out but it was still fun.
I also watch a lot of movies at the cinema,. In fact just saw MIB 3 today & enjoyed it thoroughly.
Have I been a sarno purist? I'm not sure. I always stretch, do gentle Yoga, go for a massage when I need to. But there is some conflict in my mind and that makes all those things slightly less enjoyable.
I am in a strange sort of place at the moment. I am not good with pain. I've had it too long without respite. Maybe some people are better at handling/dealing with it. When I hurt I don't want to do anything except Wallow. I have been going around looking at other people a lot. Their posture etc. I've been told that my posture is not good, too much lumbar curve, neck too straight. Tummy muscles not tight enough. And I look at people genuinely laughing enjoying themselves & I wonder if I'll ever be like that again or am I doomed at 53 to spend the rest of my life like this.
I have friends older than I am who are so fit & play sports and I am envious of them. I'm also fed up that people are always asking me about my back. Its embarrassing. Also maybe my perfectionist nature won't accept anything less than a 100% recovery which is not helping either.
I have tried EFT but not the Berceli method. I'll read up on that & find out more.
RSR your advice is solid especially the bit about soothing the pain in a gentler, kinder way & I will keep looking for ways and make it easier on myself.
Thanks ever so much for your post & for yr concern.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 12:04:34
Hi Mala,
I hope you are doing better.
I just read RageSootheRatio’s thread and have to agree. “TRY SOMETHING NEW”, especially if it sooths and gives you happiness.
These are some of the NEW things I am doing lately for myself:
Windsurfing. This is my passion what’s your passion Mala?
Looking at Bruce Lipton and Joe Dispenza videos. This is new for me, and very inspirational.
Last night I listened to U-Tube and 70’s music for a couple of hours. It was good for my soul, I just turned up the bass and raved a little. I know you like Freddie Mercury and the Queen, Mala. Those old songs the nostalgia, they bring up a swelling of emotions and joy and a sense of belonging, which is why people like concerts so much.
Also I am looking at exercising my crooked neck differently. I am going to chiro sites for the specific neck stretches. Sorry Dr. Sarno, I see them as exercise not treatment. These exercises will probably increase my pain and I am not afraid of this.
Thank you RageSootheRatio for your long thread and suggestions.
Get well Mala.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 06:37:09
Hi Mala,
I've been mulling this over.
You said:
quote:
Keep ignoring the pain? Well that is what I have done for so long.
Be more physical? Whenever I do the pain gets worse. I thought it wasn't supposed to. Now the back pain has become Sciatica. Anyway I am still keeping active.
Rest? Ride out a pain episode. I don't really have episodes. The pain i there most of the time. Just waxes & wanes. When it gets really bad I lie down for a while if I can.
I haven't been too successful at being able to abort a pain episode.
I am really unable to think of 'What next'?
Just today I picked up Mind Body Prescription and on pg 169 Sarno talks about Recurrence of Pain.
"Does the pain ever come back? Yes it can- but very infrequently. Follow up Surveys have indicated that. The rate of permanent cure is somewhere between 90 to 95 %'
Well that statement is definitely not true of people here on this forum. Or are we just not able to accept & acknowledge the idea of a psychologically induced physical disorder?
Then there are people who are using other modalities like stretching, meditation, yoga, EFT etc etc which sarno says to avoid at all cost. How does this fit in with his rather purist take on TMS. I know other tms partitioners do include them in their treatment.
Any more thoughts please?
So far, it seems you have tried:
1. ignoring the pain and just doing whatever you want and staying active.
2. Resting when it gets really bad.
3. Journalling (not sure what method, and I think the method DOES matter, but the method you tried didn't work to relieve your pain.)
And so far, you would say, none of these has really worked (?) despite years at this. And this is NOT the outcome you wanted!
This is what I would suggest you think about, or try:
If it were me (and I am thinking through this as if it WAS me because I am wondering if my fatigue problems are TMS or not... long story but I'm not convinced they ARE because I do have a medical dx for something else which is likely contributing, but I digress)... 1. You said that "I haven't been TOO SUCCESSFUL IN BEING ABLE TO ABORT A PAIN EPISODE." OK, but have you been a LITTLE BIT SUCCESSFUL and IF you have, what method were you using, and I would suggest you try more in that direction. I would definitely try to move in the direction of ABORTING a pain episode...
1. THINK BACK OVER THE MANY YEARS YOU'VE BEEN DOING TMS. WHAT HAS ACTUALLY EVER REALLY HELPED YOU???? HAS ANYTHING EVER REALLY SOOTHED THE PAIN? DO MORE OF THAT. GO FOR ABORTING PAIN ! YOU DO NOT WANT PAIN!!
IF IT MAKES IT WORSE OR YOU DOESN'T HELP, THEN IT IS NOT HELPING AND CROSS IT OFF THE LIST !! FOR ME, THAT INCLUDES WHATEVER 'PURIST-SARNO' IS. What matters is that you get help with your pain, not that you follow some "rule" from some book, from some expert who doesn't even know you!!
But be VERY SPECIFIC about what you try ... "journalling" is too vague ... there are MANY different kinds, so I would suggest you be VERY careful as you go down your list crossing things off that are NOT working ...
Then if that doesn't work, you could try using techniques you haven't tried before. For example:
1. TRAUMA RELEASE EXERCISES (TRE). There was a big long thread where I showed my progress using this technique. I stopped doing it for a long while, but the hyperarousal is now back and I am going back to these exercises as of last night and I slept better than I have in weeks if not months! Anyway, the thread about Berceli's TRE is here:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5666
2. ESTABLISH A STRONG MIND-BODY-SPIRIT-LINK FOR FIVE MINUTES A DAY AND THEN TAKE CONTROL OVER YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND, using PAIN TALK, IMAGINING A VICTORY or PICTURING CHANGES IN YOUR BODY. These suggestions come from Scott Brady's book, Pain Free for Life (he studied with Sarno and he is not really a Sarno purist, but frankly, what you are going for is pain-relief, and not puritanism! Who cares?!)
3. TRY A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO JOURNALING
Scott Brady explains his "DEPTH JOURNALLING". I personally use the EMOTIONAL BRAIN TRAINING method of journaling. (Lori from this board suggested it to me WAY back and I do find it the most helpful of all the journaling methods I've ever tried, and of course, there's lots of types.)
4. TRY DIFFERENT WAYS OF GETTING YOUR EMOTIONS OUT! How are you REALLY FEELING RIGHT NOW about being in pain, for so many years???? !!!! how are you actually EXPRESSING all your fear and getting that FEAR OUT OF YOUR BODY? How are you EXPRESSING THOSE FEELINGS? Are you yelling and screaming about them, for example? Are you throwing things? Are you beating a pillow? How are you getting your RAGE about this out?
5. TRY DIFFERENT WAYS OF SOOTHING. How many ways can you soothe yourself? What is truly soothing to you? I must say this is where I don't do very well, but I DO think it is essential!! I DO believe that it IS about the RAGE/SOOoooooooooothe RATIO !! One thing I have tried lately is the Michael Krugman audios for Sounder Sleep and I have been finding those exercises helpful, at times. I also have used EMOTIONAL BRAIN TRAINING for many years, and that overall, has been extremely helpful, for me. Other things I find soothing are: window shopping, going out for breakfast, closing my eyes, etc, and you had once said you enjoyed driving, but obviously your list will be personal to you, and may be different now than any "lists" you've used in the past!
6. TRY WHATEVER ELSE YOU MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT APPEALS TO YOU. For example I am looking into 'somatic experiencing' myself right now (seems related to being more in touch with what is happening in one's body, which I probably need.) But my point here, is just to keep going down a list, trying things to soothe yourself, your feelings, your thoughts, and to ABORT THE PAIN. Your body will keep telling you what it likes and what it doesn't, what IS genuinely working and what isn't.
If you believe you have tried "purist Sarno" all these years, then I think you can safely conclude that it hasn't worked for you! Time to try something else .. maybe just a little LEFT of Sarno! or a little RIGHT! but TRY SOMETHING ELSE !!
Anyway, those are my thoughts for you, since you asked! My suggestion (take it or leave it of course) would be Just to keep trying things until you find something that genuinely works to abort the pain! And not in a stressed out, trying-too-hard kind, MUST GET RID OF THIS PAIN / FEAR kind of way, but more in a reflective, "OK, let's just see if this helps or not" /what is working 5 or 10% better for me? ok, I'll go more in THAT direction, a gentle, sweet kind of way... and if that feels stressful or makes you want to throw up your hands in frustration, or say to me, "But she doesn't understand MY fear around this!!" then EXPRESS THOSE FEELINGS!! (and I'd suggest in a more bodily way than just *writing* for example.)
Good luck .. I really hope things get better for you and you become free of your pain and fear!
RSR
|
| balto |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 08:19:38
quote:
Originally posted by mala
Balto I am just as stumped & bewildered as you are about how long I have tried to banish this pain from my life. I get what you say about the fear & I have tried various things like yoga, meditation, keeping myself active and busy. I am not fearful person by nature but this pain has turned my world upside down. Andy i have never lived my life conventionally so I believe I am not a fearful person unless it is about PAIN.
When you move to lived with your grandfather in India, you just made up your mind and did.
When you modelling, you just made up your mind and modelling.
When you bought that convertible, you just made up your mind and bought.
You've made up your mind: to be the first girl to ride Vespa in India, to live on your own, to delay marriage, to not having kids,...
Everything you've done in life, you have to made up your mind to do it and accept the consequences. YOU HAVE MADE CHOICES.
With tms/anxiety pain, elliminate the fear of the symptoms is key to getting well.
Now you have to make up your mind to no longer fear your symptoms. You have to make a choice to no longer fear your symptoms. NO matter what happen. If you can do that, you will be cure.
All roads lead to Rome. All treatment methods tried to achieve the same thing: no more fear of the symptoms.
Goodluck Mala. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 14:26:02
Hi Mala,
Go back and read some of your previous wonderfully encouraging postings. This is what you wrote to me on 3/14/2012. One of the powers of TMS to make us forget our own beliefs, we have short memories.
“Fortunately the body wants to heal, has a predisposition to heal & will heal given half a chance. So you must start sending signals to your body that will help it to recover. Think positive, think psychological, do meditation to relax. Do anything to take your mind off the pain but most of all find something that will reduce the fear, tension & anxiety in yr mind. That in turn will help the body.”
I think it was Lynnl who said “It’s impossible for fear tension & anxiety to exist when you’re laughing” I tend to agree.
Balto is right look for fun and happiness, you can’t have fear and happiness at the same time.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
| mala |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 03:16:57
quote:
You have asserted your own needs, your own identity, and strength in contrary to social expectations often. I really respect you. However, could there exist another Mala who feels some secret shame or thinks she deserves punishment for this success or for "failing" to live up to others' cultural standards or demands? Somewhere long ago...deep down?
Composer. No this has definitely never been the case. It has never manifested in my thoughts even when I have been journalling. but thanks for thinking about me. There's been anger & frustration at people including my own mother & also my mother in law for being so narrow minded despite their education & exposure to the world. But I have gotten over that. I have also had the support of my younger sister who is married to a French guy. She has 2 beautiful children who are half French half Indian, being raised in HK , speaking Mandarin as well as French & English & live in a world which is so like the United Colours of Benneton. Wonderful.
EileenTM Thanks. I have ben thru the whole thing of being angry & then forgiving my father. Thats done & dusted. IN the past. Another chapter. Must move on & look forward.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Composer |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 13:43:27
Mala,
You have asserted your own needs, your own identity, and strength in contrary to social expectations often. I really respect you. However, could there exist another Mala who feels some secret shame or thinks she deserves punishment for this success or for "failing" to live up to others' cultural standards or demands? Somewhere long ago...deep down?
|
| EileenTM |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 11:09:48
Mala, I read this board regularly and post from time to time.
I understand your frustration as my symptoms also keep cropping up.
Sometimes an outside viewpoint can help. You mention leaving home to live with grandparents at a pretty young age due to an alcoholic father. That must have been very difficult. Dr. Sarno says in several of his books that children of alcoholics often have the most pain. Have you been to Alanon? I have some alcoholism in my family and have found it quite helpful. Also Dr. Clarke mentions that often people do not have TMS symptoms til the 40s or 50s. That must be when the resevoir of rage finally overflows. So while your situation is very frustrating, it does not seem uncommon.
Good luck and stick with it. What has worked for my husband and myself is Balto's simple approach of just living life and not fearing the symptoms. We acknowledge that it is TMS and try to move on.
EileenTM
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 07:50:30
Mala, thanks for the synopsis of your TMS history. Since you have the means to travel and do so frequently, perhaps plan a trip around seeing a TMS practitioner. The closest one to you is probably Georgie Oldfield in England. In the USA I believe Dr. Sarno refers to Dr. Ira Rashbaum now that he has retired. The "cure" rates you mention I believe are for those who have personally seen Dr. Sarno and gone through his program and not for those who have only read the books. Alternatively, phone consults with a TMS therapist may work too.
Edit: If you look at the link in my sig below to the TMS Wiki, there are numerous TMS physicians and therapists being added to the list.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| mala |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 04:10:07
I have been exploring my emotions for many years as part of the TMS work & have uncovered & discovered much about myself my relationships with people etc etc but examining & reexamining those again & again become futile when no permanent result is acheived. It may be very good for the soul but so far it hasn't eliminated the pain. Some things can be resolved & others can't & that is just the way it is. If I were to try & think & drag up everything in the last 53 years then I would go insane & that is how I sometimes feel when I have to THINK PSYCHOLOGICALLY. It becomes not only ineffective but rather cumbersome.
Balto I am just as stumped & bewildered as you are about how long I have tried to banish this pain from my life. I get what you say about the fear & I have tried various things like yoga, meditation, keeping myself active and busy. I am not fearful person by nature but this pain has turned my world upside down. Andy i have never lived my life conventionally so I believe I am not a fearful person unless it is about PAIN.
I am third generation HK Indian. These are some of the things I did during the first 40 years of my life when I lived with no pain nor any TMS symptoms that many others her seem to have grown up with.
Left HK when I was 11 for a summer vacation to India & told my parents I wasn't going back. I lived the next 12 years with my grandfather in a great environment. My father was an alcoholic & although he never hurt me or my sister, he was awful to my mom.
My dad passed away when I was 16. In many ways it was a relief.
Had a good life in India. Was the first girl to own and ride a Vespa scooter in my hometown when I was 16
Got OK grades & loved debating at school & university.
Modelled part time for a few years which was fun.
Went back to HK when I was 23 after my grandad passed away.
Refused to have an arranged marriage many many times.
Decided to leave my mom's home & find a place of my own which is a BIG no no for an Indian girl.
Worked in HK & travelled a lot till I was 36 by which time I was well past the sell by date by Asian standards. I really enjoyed the single life.
Married my husband who is a Brit at 36 . My mother of course was not too pleased but probably relieved that I was getting married anyway.
Both my husband and I were very firm about not having children .
I promised myself that i would retire from teaching before I was 50 & i did when I was 46. My husband was 48 & he too retired.
I run a successful business which requires very little work on my part & which allows us to travel & do what we want. When we travel its for fun although it sometimes doesn't feel that way anymore.
I tell you this so that you know what kind of a person I am. I am a bit of a perfectionist & like things just so but its not over the top perfectionism.
The thing is now what next. I AM SO CONFUSED.
Keep ignoring the pain? Well that is what I have done for so long.
Be more physical? Whenever I do the pain gets worse. I thought it wasn't supposed to. Now the back pain has become Sciatica. Anyway I am still keeping active.
Rest? Ride out a pain episode. I don't really have episodes. The pain i there most of the time. Just waxes & wanes. When it gets really bad I lie down for a while if I can.
I haven't been too successful at being able to abort a pain episode.
I am really unable to think of 'What next'?
Just today I picked up Mind Body Prescription and on pg 169 Sarno talks about Recurrence of Pain.
"Does the pain ever come back? Yes it can- but very infrequently. Follow up Surveys have indicated that. The rate of permanent cure is somewhere between 90 to 95 %'
Well that statement is definitely not true of people here on this forum. Or are we just not able to accept & acknowledge the idea of a psychologically induced physical disorder?
Then there are people who are using other modalities like stretching, meditation, yoga, EFT etc etc which sarno says to avoid at all cost. How does this fit in with his rather purist take on TMS. I know other tms partitioners do include them in their treatment.
Any more thoughts please?
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| mala |
Posted - 05/24/2012 : 20:49:06
Just a quick post to say thanks to all of you who are posting. I am reading everything with great interest . Since there is so much to read & digest I am taking my time to mull over things & reply in a somewhat coherent way since my thoughts are all over the place at the moment.
Will post more soon.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 20:24:35
Hi Mala
I'm so sorry you've felt like you're at your wit's end and still in pain, or again in pain.
I don't know if I have anything that would be helpful, but just wanted to post some support and caring.
And I'll ramble on a bit, in case anything MIGHT be helpful, to you.
First, I get that you've "done it all" the reading, the journalling, the ignoring, the talking etc. I wonder though, if you know what TRULY is SOOTHING to you? It sounds like you can challenge the pain, do things w/ the pain, live in the fear w/ the pain, make yourself go out w/ your family when you're in pain, etc, but can you soothe yourself, even when you're IN pain? Can you say "no I don't WANT to go out; I WANT to lie in bed and nurture mySELF for a change?"
I also recall something Balto said once which stuck with me... I think he was writing more about the pain then (can't quite recall) but I think it applies to the fear, also: "However you feel, just accept it. Fighting your symptoms [fear] and trying to push them away *JUST ADDS MORE TENSION TO YOUR ALREADY ANXIOUS BODY.* [emphasis added]. I didn't fight it. I approached it with peace and calmness. When I had symptoms, I just slowed my thinking down and observed my symptoms. I acknowledged that it is there and then I accepted the fact that it will be there for a while."
So to me, that means/ confirms my own belief that we're not IN CONTROL of our FEELINGS (like our fear.) Our FEELINGS just ARE. We don't have to add more stress ON TOP of them, by thinking stressful thoughts, but I do believe that the basic feeling is there and it WILL fade over time if it is allowed to be fully felt, along with whatever anger, sadness and regret/ guilt that may be there. Someone on this board (Lori) put me onto the Solution Method years ago and I have found that particular journalling method very helpful in not only EXPRESSING feelings, but in coming to a better "ending" with the journalling (otherwise I think sometimes journalling can make things worse.)
Another thing is, that I really don't think I could have gone down this TMS path very far, without having some (repeated) success in being ABLE TO ABORT MY PAIN and get some real RELIEF. Have you ever had that experience where you felt SOME control over the pain? Because it sure would be ENRAGING to be in pain all /most the time and forcing one's self to live life that way. NOT enjoyable, as you say! And honestly, I think it would be VERY REASONABLE to *BE* FEARFUL if you hadn't had quite a few of those experiences over the years, of having more *control* over the pain.
I recall someone once posted: "Sometimes all you can do is ride out a pain episode. I saw Dr. Sarno in the early 1990's. During one of his lectures, someone asked him what to do when you had a severe pain attack. He replied, with a twinkle in his eye, "go to bed with a good book and a bottle of wine". To me, that makes sense, sounds right... real SOOTHING, not PUSHING through the pain. Not trying to MAKE the pain go away, MAKE the fear go away, MAKE us follow some "TMS rules." I wonder if the only "rule" is to find out what TRULY works for us as individuals... to somehow get that "rage / soothe ratio" right! I don't know if one can just follow a "rule" like "ignore the pain and just live your life" and expect it to "work" if it is in fact NOT working!
I personally don't know how much I believe in the "ignoring the pain and pushing on" approach, nor the "challenging myself" approach. My own approach was more like aborting the pain and then following the 70% (40%) rule, which comes from a Qi Gong master ... To do 70% of what one thinks one can do (and only 40% of what one thinks one can do if one is recovering from something.) I apply this, EVEN IF I think it is a mind-body thing (as opposed to just my body recovering from a sprain or something.) For me, that is a more reasonable, caring approach to my body-mind.
I found the Scott Brady book (Pain Free for Life... he studied with Dr Sarno for a bit) and his online presentation very helpful as well. He gives examples of "aborting" the pain too, and I can't imagine doing this without those kinds of experiences to give me hope / confidence.
Have you found any ways to trigger the "relaxation response" ... the parasympathetic system? For me, this is hard, and I use the Trauma Reducing Exercises (Bercelli) and recently having some success with Krugman's "Sounder Sleep" audio tapes. (Works better for me than Jon Kabat Zinn's mindfulness tapes, which I DID use for many years, but not sure how much they really helped.)
Anyway, just wanted to say that I am really sorry that this is the worst it's been for you, and I do hope you are feeling better soon!
RSR
|
| andy64tms |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 19:56:47
Hi Mala,
I agree with Balto’s comments and would like to add. I believe that fear is with us every minute of our daily lives. We have a sort of fear pool that we constantly add to. Some of us add major events of fear and some of us (like me) fill it with the most incredible rubbish. Never the less it gets filled and needs to be drained regularly.
I’m not boasting but here are some of the fears I have overcome and to this day feel good about:
Giving up smoking, and facing the ridicule of my family.
Getting married against opposition of my family.
Immigrating to the USA.
Unemployment many times, with the added fear of being unable to provide.
Going to AA for the first time.
Joining Toastmasters to over my shyness and inability to speak in public.
Overcoming Sciatica pain and fear of being ill forever in 2000.
All of these fears were overcome and no longer bother me as my pool was drained on these issues. The one thing that is common about all of them is that they were blown up out of all proportion; most of our fears are unwarranted, made up by our mind trying to protect us in some way. I look back at these events and feel stronger. I am sure you can write a similar list and see your present fear is only in your head.
It’s funny that despite my strength and success in the above issues, that most of my daily anxiety and fear is about the most stupidly unimportant things, and many of them, so my pool stays full. You see I am a mechanical designer by trade, very fussy and detail oriented, I jokingly say to myself: “I design by worry”, I truly am my own worst enemy, I’ve been like this all my life and Dr Sarno stated in HBP that people like me are constantly trying to prove themselves – to boost their self esteem.
Big fears, small fears I think are the same to TMS, the pool gets filled just the same with both.
Mala take a break from the physical. Take a holiday, pamper yourself and enjoy. The only pool you should be worried about is the one you are swimming in, in Hawaii, and remember that when you enjoy and have fun TMS isn’t winning.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
| balto |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 17:28:27
quote:
Originally posted by mala
Thank you all for your comments.
Balto I have read yr posts with great interest. I think i have lived the last 15 years with no fear, tried my utmost. I have done everything even when the pain has been at its worst and i have been in pain a lot most of the time. Even yesterday I dragged my sorry little self out & spent the whole day with family even doing a walk up the hill. BUT here is no joy in living like this. How is one supposed to enjoy life this way. I am in pain all the time, food tastes like cardboard, no appetite, no desire. Just living in pain. Watching movie in pain. I even bought myself a new sports car ( a convertible) but don't enjoy driving that either.
I did not have the best of childhoods (my father was an alcoholic) but it could have been a lot worse. My parents did love me & I was much loved by my grandfather with whom I lived with 11 years. I have a great husband, fantastic sister who is my best friend. No financial worries ever. I was always confident & have a good circle of friends. I tell you all this so that you can understand that although I do have some baggage, I have journalled about it, talked about it.
I have dealt with my emotions, I am dealing with the fear of being in constant pain. Pls don't tell me not to think of timeframe becoz its been a long long time. If i go by the treatment plan according to Sarno, I should be recovered by now. So what's happening?
Thx all for reading this.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
Hi Mala,
You've been on this forum much longer than I do, I am very surprise you have not "cure" yet. I'm sure you have read thousand of good post about the need to elliminate "fear" from your mind in order to get well. I don't think I can write any better than those that went before me. I just want to kind of remind you one more time this: all negative feelings, guilt, anger, loneliness, regret, sad,... you name it, they all came from fear. You have those emotion because you feared something would happen against your wishes or not happen as you wished.
With tms/anxiety, fear is what keep the pain, the symptoms alive. I'm not talking about you fearing the pain, I'm talking about you fear what will happen to your health, to your body. (you fear you may get permanent nerve damage, you fear you can not enjoy life and the pain is going to be with you forever, you fear the doctor have missed something, you fear bone cancer, your fear.....) It doesn't matter what is the cause of your symptom. It is not important to know what initially caused the pain, it is not important to know what subconcious thought is the cause of the pain. You don't have to think back 10, 20, or 30 years of what had happen to you that now caused pain. All mind body syndrome pain will reduce and cease to exist when you no longer worry about your health, when you no longer fear what would happen. When you no longer think structural.
I don't know what to recommend you to stop the FEAR. We're are all different. Some people use yoga, some use meditation, some just get so busy they don't have the time to think about themselve. Some exercise to prove to their mind that they are OK, they are normal, and slowly they regain their confidence in their body and the fear just melt away.
For me, one day I was just sick and tire of being an invalid for so long, I just tell myself I'm not going to live in fear of this anymore. I have suffered for decades and I'm not dead yet, I'm not paralyze yet. I don't have to live with fear and I'm not going to fear anymore, NO MORE FEAR. No fear even if I die tonight. I will do anything I feel like doing without fear. I do it because I want to do it, not because I want to get well. I don't give my pain anymore value.... 2,3 weeks later have no more pain, no more anxiety, and I have been cure for years now. And one more thing, just like doctor Z on this forum often said, you have to really believe you will get well, you will over come your pain. You think yourself into it, you can think yourself out of it. Think positive, think no fear, think confident, think it is just thought pain, it is not dangerous, you have better thing to do than worry about some pain caused by emotion.
Don't look for cure outside of your mind. That nice convertible won't cure you if you still live in fear. Your wonderful husband and sister won't cure you because they can not think for you. Financial security won't cure you either. It is really all in your head, your thoughts. You live with tms/anxiety for years. You have done just about everything you can think of, can you just try to live your life without fear for just one month. JUST ONE MONTH. Refuse to fear for JUST ONE MONTH.
You don't know how wonderful peace of mind is until you've lost it. But we can all get it back. All you have to do is believe in yourself, you can do it, you don't have to fear it, you have to quit fearing it. There is no other way. All the methods you've read in any tms/anxiety books all try to achieve this, they all try to elliminate fear from your thought.
Fear is the most destructive thing in this world. All dictators in the world used fear to control people. All religions use the fear of hell and punishment to keep people behaving. Fear keep us from doing many many thing, and now we know fear can cause pain and anxiety.
The cure for all your tms pain and anxiety is extremely simple. All you have to do is elliminate all fear thoughts from your mind. How you go about doing that, I don't know, just do it.
If I write a book about tms it would have only one page inside with these words: NO FEAR, NO PAIN.
goodluck Mala.
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| andy64tms |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 13:29:41
Hi Mala,
This is how I got rid of my sciatica.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7353
I wrote this post to remind myself of exactly happened to me in 2000. It lists what I did as well as what I did not do. I really did very little, so little that I wonder if it really happened, but I know it did. I became really engrossed and happy with even thinking about windsurfing that my back pain disappeared to this day. I don’t think I have arthritis only bulging discs in the lower lumber region.
So I was left with just my neck ache, which bothered me very little for ten years or so until recent years. I have had three terrible years of stress, most of which is behind me, as I am now retired and have time to deal most of it.
Dr. Z. wrote a post on distraction this week, I am giving TMS the summer off as I have 12 weeks of windsurfing trips to arrange and plan. I am totally distracted and becoming happy windsurfing and socializing with my friends. It also has given me time to read HBP once again, it seems to be a very different book from the year 2000, and I think I have changed.
Mala I understand your frustration you have been at this for a long time, and Dr. Sarno makes recovery sound so easy, it is not! You have 443 posts and have been at this since 2003. Your pain has become the “prime focus of your life” - Dr.Sarno quote. Remember he also says the emotions are deeply entrenched and maybe you need help with this on a one to one basis.
Maybe you could take a trip if you can to UK or the States for fun and incorporate it with a visit to a TMS Dr. A real diagnosis might be what you need, and the trip would be a great distraction. The most important part of this paragraph is the word FUN.
Be well
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 08:51:41
Mala, I know how you feel in regards to the fear of pain. It's difficult when you have lived with it for so long. I have lived in near constant pain for 12 years with only brief periods of relief. As I have explored my e,options and memories, I have discovered feelings and trends in my life of which I have never been aware. I know there are others who are much more qualified than I am to make any recommendations, and I cannot speak to your experience in attempting to recover, but I can't help but think that while you think you have dealt with the emotions, there are other emotions...emotions you are either completely unaware of or, when they surface, you shove them back down instead of allowing yourself to experience them or work through them.
I am 2 weeks into my TMS journey...and it has been emotionally painful and exhausting. So much so that for the last two days, I kind of just needed to not think about them and I found, in the last 2 days, that my mood was pretty terrible. It's that type of running from emotions that got me where I am now, I'm sure. I would encourage you to re-examine your memories...re-examine when your pain started and try to connect any remaining dots that maybe were missed before. If you notice an emotion that was around at that time...see if you can figure out other times you've felt that way. So, far, this has led me to uncover some strong emotions about certain events that, again, I didn't realize we're even there. And, once you have done that...it's good to spend time working on some forgiveness and calming. I don't know if that's supposed to help TMS, but it's good for the soul :-)
--
Dustin |
| mala |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 07:32:41
Andy, how did you get rid of sciatica . Windsurfing wow I,m jealous. Thx for the post.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| mala |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 05:46:32
I have seriously thought about it Aussie. Just the thought of the long flight is killing me though. Maybe I could get drugged up to the eyeballs & give it a shot.
Take care
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Aussie |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 03:23:32
Mala Im only relatively new to this but have had some success treating my back pain by just reading about TMS. I too live in a country with zero TMS doctor's and it makes it so much harder when you haven't had an official diagnosis to convince the mind there is no physical problem.
I was fortunate enough that there was nothing significant on MRI. If there was however i think i would need a TMS doctor to tell me what they thought after examining me.
Maybe after trying for so long and feeling frustrated with going backwards you should try and see a TMS doctor. Maybe you already have but i think if you haven't after trying for so long on your own and not getting the results you want it might be time to take a little trip to see one in the States.
All the best i hope you beat this. |
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