| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 14:37:22
Back to the osteopath today and she examined me again and was totally adamant that my issue was a structural one caused by a twisted/tilted pelvis. I did ask her about the jump in logic of linking my symptoms with her findings but her response, which I suppose is pretty fair, was that she was an osteopath and if she finds a biomechanical explanation for symptoms then this is what she believes and treats.
I also had the stuff again about high impact sport, age degradation and the walking on 2 legs stuff...she did baffle me with science/bull**** and found it quite hard to follow it all at times.
Upon examination she advised me that she felt it would be advantagous to adjust my pelvis again and I agreed to this. When she did this last time I heard the crack that they seem to love and was told that that was the adjustment. When she did the adjustment again today I'm sure I heard a noise but am almost 100% sure that it was from the table I was on. The osteopath latched onto this and quickly asked me if I had heard the adjustment...as I wasnt sure what I had heard I told her in all honesty that I wasnt sure I had heard anything. I was really surprised at her reaction as he seemed disappointed and even a tad angry that I had not heard the adjustment noise.
The osteopath knew my scepticism of the diagnosis from day one and said she would show me some home exercises for the pelvis and to return if I needed more treatment/help...it was almost as if I was too problematic for her.
I'm confused now as I feel really disappointed going down this route...I have more damn aches since she has adjusted me which she assures me is my muscles correcting themselves but I now feel I taken a huge step backwards. I'm really starting to feel that the principle of osteopath and the success of it is determind on the belief in it...hence her waryness of me being sceptical and also the fact that she was so put out when I didnt hear the adjustment.
Anyway, thats it with that avenue...she did suggest pilates and lower impact activity but I know this is just going to pander to the belief I'm somehow structurally damaged. What has annoyed me is that some negative seeds have now been planted and I suspect they may be hard to shift. |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 05/05/2012 : 14:32:35
Racingspoon,
If you can see Georgie, THAT will be money well spent. She has a background in both "western" medicine as well as Dr. Sarno's type of approach. So if there is truly something physical (and it does happen now and then) she WILL tell you. You are lucky to be near a practitioner that has both, there are so few! And a diagnosis of TMS from a professional helps a great deal. I was lucky to be able to see Dr. Sarno.
Go for it!
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 09:49:28
I spent nearly 20 years going to a cranial osteopath periodically for back pain, shoulder and neck pain and TMJ. After that telltale crack I would leave after each treatment, fearful that one false move and I would undo the good work of the osteopath. After my first attack of sciatica the treatments I received seemed to work wonders. I now accept these were the placebo effect. Following my second attack I decided to tackle the problem myself somehow, without relying on someone else to do it for me, otherwise the cycle would have continued. It was around the time I discovered Dr Sarno. This turned out to be a wise decision and I haven't been back to see my osteopath in 2 1/2 years.
I must admit there were some compelling moments, particularly when the osteopath mentioned that he could tell from my body rhythms that I had experienced deep grief when I was approximately seven years old. I had never mentioned this to anyone in the practice but my grandfather died when I was roughly this age. As a child I felt he was the only one in the world who loved me. When he died it was like all that love was gone and I would never have it back again. Could this have been a wild guess on the part of the osteopath? It paid off for him in any case. |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 09:26:37
quote:
Originally posted by racingspoon
So, is it that there is not a structural issue, there is a structural issue but it doesn't account for my symptoms or it could be a structural issue but it is not relevant.
I guess it all depends on how you define "issue."
Plenty of people have structural findings on X-Ray or MRI with no symptoms whatsoever. Scoliosis is an example of a severe structural abnormality but in my experience it does not in and of itself cause pain. Herniated discs are structural "abnormalities" but they rarely cause pain.
Of course it is possible to experience an acute injury that could lead to a structural problem that causes pain. But the human body tends to heal completely from injuries, in some cases, getting stronger in the process.
Some chiropractors or osteopaths might have you believe that you have a chronic abnormality that needs to be "fixed" through an ongoing series of adjustments. Chiropractors are taught that our spine goes out of alignment and this could cause symptoms if not corrected through adjustments. In general medicine tends to treat the body as a fragile machine that is highly susceptible to chronic issues that need to be fixed. This is simply not true.
TMS theory tells us is the mind that is fragile and subject to the pressure of inner "rage" that is brought on by life's pressures, or more specifically, the pressures we put on ourselves. Our bodies have evolved over millions of years, but the stresses of the modern world are far different from those experienced by our ancestors. The mind doesn't quite know how to deal with it all, so it relies on primitive mechanisms. TMS symptoms are a by-product of those mechanisms.
As long as you have ruled out serious structural issues, disease, or other illness through proper medical tests, it is safe to treat the pain as TMS and accept that the structural findings are normal and benign.
|
| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 03:00:06
Steve
A racing spoon is a UK forces nickname given to a spoon that is used by a soldier. The terminology is also used frequently by hikers etc. The spoon needs to be strong and with a long handle to dig deep into food packets. You often find said spoon attached to length of paracord and hung around the neck...second to your weapon your racing spoon is your go to item.
No hidden meaning of Freudian slip there mate....I was gonna call myself fullofearandrage though, hmmmmm ;) ;) ;) |
| SteveO |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 23:32:19
I'm always curious how people choose their screen names. I like to look inside their wavvy souls. Right worldtravelor? It reveals much about us; why we are, and who we are hiding, or revealing. Screen names are Freudian slips with a touch of persona.
RacingSpoon, what is a spoon that is racing?
I remember once in the days of ignorance, visiting the chiro/osteopath, as I was turning on the table for the "adjustment," my back suddenly cracked. He said, "there we got it!". I left, empty and confused. He left with $120. My pain continued for 25 more years.
Your tilted pelvis means nothing. Your doctors have created what Dr. Sopher called in my Foreword, as an "alternate reality." If he/she/they, can convince you at the deepest level that you are flawed, then ku-ching$....they have their second home and new boat. It takes great strength to stand up to authority in the face of truth.
Great healers like Weil and Chopra and Sarno reject these silly notions.
Art somebody, you are spot on correct. The laying on of hands is the most powerful of healing connection because it connects the unconnected of childhood. Touch is one letter from ouch. We need to know we aren't isolated from each other. And with this touch we feel healed from years of rejection and abandonment. For a second in time.
Beware of those who would define your life,
Steve Ozanich
The Great Pain Deception |
| art |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 18:53:57
I do agree with you wavy. The laying on of hands can be very healing. The human body needs to be touched. It's the most direct, most powerful affirmation there is. A good and trusted therapist
worth his/her weight in gold. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 12:12:39
oh, the cashmere sweaters I've been able to afford since stopping the endless round of chiros and osteos.
However, what I do love is somatic-based self-therapy in which I have become quite good at releasing the built-up tension of rage and anxiety and so on. I have recently started trades with a masseur who is very strong, and he pressed on places that hurt and I breathe into them and find myself processing stuff that has been stuck in my subconscious quite quickly. The cool thing is that he doesn't have to do anything psychological - he's just a very non-judgmental, strong bodyworker - except provide something for me to push against, and I have cleared up some chronic tension, for example, that seemed to be hanging around since my sister's death.
Sometimes I can get a similar tension release by rolling around on a ball. But I like the hands on me, and especially being single, it seems like a healthy thing.
I'm saying this because I disagree with any covert assumption that it's somehow against some principle to get physical help in recovery from the knots my super-somatic TMS body gets itself into. Sure beats painkillers and talk therapy, for me.
I have several friends who are chiropractors. Sometimes it seems to me like a impossible situation with the economy the way it is - they are trained in seminars to "upsell." Even dentists, in America, learn to sell, sell, sell. Having been raised in the UK where healthcare was more ethical-seeming back then, I find the US health system to be filled with unethical practices that doctors don't even realize are unethica. After all, they have to make a living. It's not something to blame them for. Sometimes they are very helpful (like my excellent cancer surgeon). rant rant
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| healingback |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 11:05:40
i spent 6 months working with the tms approach and had some success but for the most part i never got far enough from the idea of it being physical i felt i need to continue with the physical side of things before i could fully except the emotional. if you go over my posts your see my diagnoses for si joint and piriformis/scaitica.
This to shall pass.... |
| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 04:17:54
Yes, it was this area she suggested was the cause of the problems I was having. From my understanding many GP's etc actually refuse to accept that this area can cause problems so that muddies the water even further.
Have you had any success treating this as TMS? |
| healingback |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 03:29:09
racing spoon, i havent been on this forum for awhile, but as im in a fair bit of pain today i thought i would reply... with your twisted pelvis did she say anything about your sacroiliac joints ? i know this is focusing on the physical but i just wondered as we seem to have similar things going on.
This to shall pass.... |
| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 02:48:14
Hi Aussie...thanks again.
Yep, my point exactly. I did suggest this to the oesteo...I asked her was there not an assumption being made that my symptoms are caused by the twisted pelvis and if 100 people came to her and 60 had a twisted pelvis why would they be symptom free? Her reply was that whilst those people may be symptom free at that moment she would expect symptoms to develop more often that not as time went by. When I challenged her about the possible assumption being made her quite understanable reply was that if somebody presents to her with what experience tells her are the symptoms of a twisted/tilted pelvis and then if her examination finds a twisted/tilted pelvis she is quite comfortable with the assumption and it happy to call that assumption a diagnosis. I couldn't really think of much of a reply to that.
Having read Sarno's books I understand that very often a diagnosis will fail to take into account pain levels and symptom presentation and this brings the structural diagnosis into account but I am being told that this is obviously not the case here...I'm just unsure as to how to proceed.
Oh, no MRI etc....that is a can of worms I don't even want to think about opening up, lol. |
| Aussie |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 02:13:03
Im just stating the obvious here but how many people have a 'twisted pelvis' without pain??
It's exactly the same issue when one gets back pain that is ongoing, Gets an MRI at doctor's request and the old bulging disc or some other normal abnormality is there to blame the pain on.
Most adults will have disc degeneration or ageing of the spine of some sort yet most don't have pain? A twisted pelvis is a dubious diagnosis to say the least... Has your condition been confirmed with Xray or MRI images?? If not then it's nothing more than the osteo making an assumption.
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| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 11:09:37
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by racingspoon
Can I clarify, is that in all probability the twisted/twilted pelvis diagnosis is incorrect or that even if I did have this structural issue it would not really account for my symptoms.
It is very difficult to break the habit of thinking physical and looking for a structural "fix" but it has to be done.
I was a long-term chiropractic patient and the chiropactor was a good friend of mine. I do not deny that I felt some relief from the adjustments, but they were short lived. I came to accept that the relief was entirely due to placebo effect and/or short-term chemical reaction, and not due to fixing a structural issue. I was conditioned to experience relief after an adjustment, it was nothing more.
As long as you hold the belief that physical treatment can "fix" the "problem" then the symptoms are likely to continue.
Cheers for the reply Dave....appreciate it.
Sorry if I'm being a pain (no pun intended) labouring the point but just want to get my head around it. So, is it that there is not a structural issue, there is a structural issue but it doesn't account for my symptoms or it could be a structural issue but it is not relevant. As a recovering health anxiety sufferer I'm well aware of the expression that even hypochondriacs catch a cold so therefore is it not possible that a TMS poster child can twist their pelvis? Or is the point that it is not possible to actually twist your pelvis and the oesteo is just incorrect and conditioned to find a physical explanation.
thanks again :) |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 09:41:58
quote:
Originally posted by racingspoon
Can I clarify, is that in all probability the twisted/twilted pelvis diagnosis is incorrect or that even if I did have this structural issue it would not really account for my symptoms.
It is very difficult to break the habit of thinking physical and looking for a structural "fix" but it has to be done.
I was a long-term chiropractic patient and the chiropactor was a good friend of mine. I do not deny that I felt some relief from the adjustments, but they were short lived. I came to accept that the relief was entirely due to placebo effect and/or short-term chemical reaction, and not due to fixing a structural issue. I was conditioned to experience relief after an adjustment, it was nothing more.
As long as you hold the belief that physical treatment can "fix" the "problem" then the symptoms are likely to continue. |
| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 03:19:21
quote:
Originally posted by SteveO
"I heard the crack that they seem to love"...."I heard a noise but am almost 100% sure that it was from the table I was on."
That made me laugh out loud. I needed that, thanks for sharing. I had hundreds upon hundreds of those back crackings. They always seemed so happy, the secretaries seemed happy, their bankers seemed happy. The only one not happy after them was me.
You have more strongly enforced the notion of strucural problems within your brain. As you know, the concept is to get away from all things that plant doubt in your mind about the structural integrity of your body. We are very strong physically. Modern medicine often weakens us through brainwashing. It's great marketing.
Steve
Indeed, she did indeed seem to place great store in the adjustment sound as if it was important I heard this in order to believe something structural had indeed shifted, changed or corrected itself.
So, I totally understand the need to move away from thinking physically. I have had somatisation issues in the past but they have always been random and undiagnosed, that is the GP's have never found anything amiss...the stumbling block at the moment is that I have a diagnosis of the osteopath and she seems pretty adamant that this is where my problems lie.
Can I clarify, is that in all probability the twisted/twilted pelvis diagnosis is incorrect or that even if I did have this structural issue it would not really account for my symptoms. I have to stress that I am lucky in that I am not in bad pain as such but rather that I get flares that cause nagging discomfort and deep aching. I also have to admit that if somebody said I would have to live with it for ever I would accept this but alot of worry resides in the fear of it getting worse and also not knowing what it is. I do actually live a normal life and do not allow the discomfort to stop me hiking, running and the like...having said all that I am a poster child for TMS and my motives for exercise and wishing to lose weight are firmly grounded in low self esteem. |
| Aussie |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 22:55:10
Hi Racingspoon,
Not all activity will pander to the idea that you have a structual problem and you should do these to show yourself you are not broken and are physically ok.
For me it was Iyengar yoga that got my mobility back and confidence up in regards to hard physical activity. This then helped me get back into the sports i had previously stopped doing.
Do this sort of exercise to challenge the pain, Not to fix some structual problem.
I also wasted my time and money at the Osteopath and Chiropractor. At one stage i was being adjusted 3 times a week and i literally had zero improvement after months of treatment.
While being treated for low back pain the chiro also diagnosed me with a neck problem claiming my alignment was 'too straight'.. He commented that in 5-8 years id have a real serious problem unless this was adjusted back into place.
I pulled out of the whole treatment once i heard him say similar things to other patients that he was treating at the same time.
We all layed there as he would race from patient to patient informing us all of our impending doom!
Everyone has a different experience but for me it was all a waste of time and money. If you have had no improvement from your Osteo visit then why keep going?? Do the TMS work and if you can go and see Georgie.
All the best. |
| SteveO |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 18:23:22
"I heard the crack that they seem to love"...."I heard a noise but am almost 100% sure that it was from the table I was on."
That made me laugh out loud. I needed that, thanks for sharing. I had hundreds upon hundreds of those back crackings. They always seemed so happy, the secretaries seemed happy, their bankers seemed happy. The only one not happy after them was me.
You have more strongly enforced the notion of strucural problems within your brain. As you know, the concept is to get away from all things that plant doubt in your mind about the structural integrity of your body. We are very strong physically. Modern medicine often weakens us through brainwashing. It's great marketing.
Steve |
| racingspoon |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 16:26:35
Yeah, valid point...lol. I knew I was letting the bloody genie out of the bottle but well you know, one little rub won't hurt right... :(
I wasn't aware of the TMS group but I have emailed Georgie as she has a clinic quite near me in June. The only problem is that the consulation fee is a bit of a stretch. I already feel that I've thrown £60 down the drain on the osteo.
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 16:17:34
Don't ask a barber if you need a haircut. You're in the UK, are you familiar with the TMS group that meets up in a pub there? Are you familiar with Georgia Oldfield who is a TMS practitioner there?
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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