| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dr. Zafirides |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 15:53:54
Hi everyone,
I thought the latest study from the UCLA School of Medicine had important relevance to TMS. The researchers found that the pain, bloating and discomfort of Irritable Bowel Syndrome was linked to a history of childhood trauma. You can read the full story here:
http://www.thehealthymind.com/2012/04/02/stress-illness-childhood-abuse-linked-to-ibs-symptoms-in-adults/
Beyond the fact THAT this relationship exists, it is more important to ask WHY it exists. Why would trauma (emotional abuse and symptoms) cause physical symptoms so much later in life. In my personal opinion, I believe the specific reason in IBS is similar to why TMS pain occurs in general, namely...
The emotional pain is so difficult that the mind will do all it can to protect itself from the awareness of this emotion (rage, anger, sadness, anxiety, meaninglessness, futility). Pain is generated as a protection against these emotions.
This is the essence of TMS.
Just FYI,
Dr. Zafirides |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MsMetaP |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 07:35:58
quote:
Originally posted by balto
I think that, if Dr. Claire Weekes still alive, she probably would say: these people with a traumatic childhood came from a disfunctional background so they grow up illed equipt to fit in with society, unprepare to deal with stress that life present to them, so they're lonely and most are living in constant stress, and prolong stress would cause IBS (or tms/anxiety). I thought this would make more sense than telling people that something happened 10, 20, or 30 years ago is the cause of their pain.
What about those people who have IBS, who didn't have a traumatic childhood and never were abuse? How do we explain their case?
I'm new here, but I have a lot of experience with the topic, as a survivor of severe child abuse which I repressed until I was 40 years old. It is not the "old abuse" that causes our symptoms. It's the dis-functional way we had to learn to cope that causes them. Children who are abused have few choices. In most cases they're dependent on their abusers in some aspect. So they learn to "repress" things as a survival technique. That characteristic way of coping becomes habitual and eventually manifests as so-called physical symptoms.
People without abusive backgrounds can also learn to cope this way, who knows why/how, but the results are the same. This explains why people with and people without abusive backgrounds can experience TMS.
I spent many years "working on" my abuse issues in therapy, but I never changed my "pattern" of coping with stress. This is how I ended up with TMS.
I do wish that the "experts" in TMS would "get it" that it's current emotional pain, caused by current repression of painful emotions (fear, rage, anxiety), that is at the root of our symptoms, and not an experience that happened 30-40 years ago. BUT...the knowledge contributed by Dr. Sarno (BLESS him!) is invaluable, and these ideas will eventually unfold beyond the current ideas of "the past" causing problems. 
Grateful to be here! |
| Dr. Zafirides |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 18:25:39
Lynn,
Thanks for your reply.
I think the point of the study was to show that - for some people - traumatic experiences have the potential to contribute to IBS symptoms. I thought it was helpful to the discussion as we understand the physical manifestation of emotional issues.
Kindly,
Peter Zafirides, MD
http://www.thehealthymind.com |
| Sarnotic-nerve |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 18:55:53
Balto, my apologies. Sometimes I scan text too quickly.
I misread your post. I didn't realize you weren't convinced by the theories you've read. I thought you were stating that nothing you read suggested the connection.
This is why it took me a full month to read The Brothers Karamazov. 
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
| balto |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 16:56:49
quote:
Originally posted by Sarnotic-nerve
quote:
Originally posted by balto
what do you mean by "sarcasm?"
You have 221 posts here. And I thought the notion of past trauma often playing a role in TMS was a core concept.
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;)
What having 221 posts have anything to do with this discussion? Do you mean people with high post count have to know and accepted that childhood trauma caused tms?
there are many theories on what is the cause of tms/anxiety and many other mindbody illnesses. People accepted some theories and disagreed with some. I've just expressed my thought on this topic and hope to have some intelligent and polite discussion so I can learn more. I'm not trying to put down and attack anyone here.
I hope you're not one of those hardcore Sarno purist who whould get offended by anyone who disagreed on anything Sarno said or wrote. |
| Sarnotic-nerve |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 20:04:49
quote:
Originally posted by balto
what do you mean by "sarcasm?"
You have 221 posts here. And I thought the notion of past trauma often playing a role in TMS was a core concept.
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
| lynnl |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 17:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by balto
Hi Lynnl. I didn't say anything about the article.
My apologies! I misinterpreted your meaning.
About the wallet in the back pocket - I had a coworker who swore that was the (permanent) resolution of his back pain.
(That was after I discovered Dr Sarno.) He would accept no other explanation, so I didn't press the matter. Anything that works, I guess... 
Lynn |
| balto |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 16:27:23
what do you mean by "sarcasm?" |
| Sarnotic-nerve |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 16:25:14
quote:
Originally posted by balto
Again, I'm not a doctor, but I have not read anything that have convince me that something happened long ago in our past can cause us pain today. It doesn't make sense to me that a bully beat me up 30 years ago can still caused me back pain.
Sarcasm?
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
| balto |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 16:13:50
Hi Lynnl. I didn't say anything about the article.
Maybe I was wrong but the 2 posts above my post here seem to conclude that childhood trauma cause physical symptoms later in life (include IBS).
Quote from the dr Z: "... Why would trauma (emotional abuse and symptoms) cause physical symptoms so much later in life...."
Again, I'm not a doctor, but I have not read anything that have convince me that something happened long ago in our past can cause us pain today. It doesn't make sense to me that a bully beat me up 30 years ago can still caused me back pain. |
| lynnl |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 15:41:51
quote:
Originally posted by balto
I think we're maybe too quick to conclude that childhood trauma cause IBS here. It may or may not, We need more proof here.
I am not a doctor and this is just an opinion. I just think we need more study and research on this. This is to vague to conclude that childhood traumas cause IBS.
Well now let's group the apples with apples, and oranges with oranges.
To say there's a link is not the same as saying that childhood trauma is a necessary and sufficient condition for IBS. And I read nothing in that article suggesting that it is.
Lynn |
| Sarnotic-nerve |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 08:35:45
quote:
Originally posted by balto
Even to this day, my mother still tell the kids to wear enough clothes or "you're going to get a cold".
The residents of Alaska must never be well! :p
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
| balto |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 07:06:51
Even to this day, my mother still tell the kids to wear enough clothes or "you're going to get a cold". |
| Sarnotic-nerve |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 05:41:00
The article/study doesn't attribute childhood trauma as the only cause.
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
| balto |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 05:22:32
I think we're maybe too quick to conclude that childhood trauma cause IBS here. It may or may not, We need more proof here.
In the 13, 14 century, the black death killed an estimated 30 to 60% of Europe's population. Doctor at that time blamed it on "bad air" because most of the deaths are people who lived near sewer and trash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory
A few years ago, many doctors believe that men who keep wallets in their back trouser's pockets will get back pain. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2664615.stm
In the 90's, there are quite a few people thought that HIV is God's punishment to gay people and drug users.
I think that, if Dr. Claire Weekes still alive, she probably would say: these people with a traumatic childhood came from a disfunctional background so they grow up illed equipt to fit in with society, unprepare to deal with stress that life present to them, so they're lonely and most are living in constant stress, and prolong stress would cause IBS (or tms/anxiety). I thought this would make more sense than telling people that something happened 10, 20, or 30 years ago is the cause of their pain.
What about those people who have IBS, who didn't have a traumatic childhood and never were abuse? How do we explain their case?
I am not a doctor and this is just an opinion. I just think we need more study and research on this. This is to vague to conclude that childhood traumas cause IBS. |
| SteveO |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 16:58:36
This was an excellent post Dr. Z. In many ways.
First, it links the health problems we have as adults to situations we encountered as children, and a method for coping begins. Bob Scaer, MD, said that childhood abuse was the number one factor he saw in his chronic pain patients, that "it was 100% predictable."
Second, you established that it is far more important to understand WHY something occurs rather than to simply examine the relationships. Very true.
Third, this article showed that TMS as we know it is far more than just pain. As Dr. Sarno stated TMS should now stand for The Mindbody Syndrome since it encompasses much more than we currently understand; even affecting the immune system, among many other things.
Fourth, you did a nice job in summarizing how TMS is used as a protection against powerful emotions when you stated:
"The emotional pain is so difficult that the mind will do all it can to protect itself from the awareness of this emotion (rage, anger, sadness, anxiety, meaninglessness, futility). Pain is generated as a protection against these emotions."
It's very difficult, in fact, one of the most difficult things to do, to summarize such a large bundle of information into a concise statement like that. The symptom is there to protect us, it's irritating to hear other MDs saying that Dr. Sarno is putting the blame on the sufferer. This is not true at all. The brain is doing a favor but it's also outside of awareness and so not consciously realized. So there's no blaming involved.
And fifth, I was impressed that you spelled meaninglessness correctly. Most people forget an "s." Good job.
Andrew Weil, MD, has also said that IBS has strong emotional components and used the example of how smoking reduces the symptoms of IBS, or UC. That further shows that Dr. Sarno is correct in that the symptom exists to distract the mind's eye. As Weil stated, "..it does not take a great deal of intelligence to surmise that smoking is an effective outlet for stress and if you shut that outlet, the stress is going to go somewhere else." That's the symptom imperative. Or as Dr. Sarno stated, "The brain will NOT be denied!" When there is conflict it must be addressed or released or it's going to find a way, somehow, to get and to hold your attention.
Good post,
SteveO |
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