| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 10:00:27
I'm continuing to read––and have my mind blown by––this book that mysteriously arrived at my door called "The Will To Live," by Arnold Hutschnecker, MD. He wrote it in 1951, the year I was born. In fact, I'm wondering if it might have been one of the sources that caused my then experimental psychologist mum to teach me the word "hypochondriac" before I learned "baby!"
This book is very similar to a Sarno book, but the author is definitely talking from his own long experience as a doctor. The big thing that is helping me is that he basically separates everything going on within us as The Will To Live and The Will To Die (aka Eros and Thanatos). He says that all illness is a conflict between these. Into this structure he pours an understanding of core rage, but also many other emotional underpinnings of disease, both acute (as in heart failure) and chronic (as in allergies, fatigue, etc.).
Here is a quote:
"Whether the individual accepts life with its inexorable conditions, or rejects it, will determine his course. The individual who accepts life, whether or not he protests, strives to adapt himself to situations which he cannot avoid. He begins in infancy a long series of adjustments, and the more readily he adjust himself the greater his capacity for living.
We must be careful not to confuse such a positive acceptance of the joys and responsibilities of living with the familiar pattern of conformity or resignation. To conform to others' standards is to surrender one's identity, and to resign oneself to the will of others is to surrender one's own will. Each of these is a death of at least part of the self. To do this knowingly is on thing. But to surrender unknowingly, and to rebel at the surrender without knowing that we rebel, is to live in perpetual inner conflict."
Aha! Perpetual Inner Conflict! Sound familiar? I would say that my TMS is basically kept in motion by a very core level of inner conflict, which has been present from a very young age, as various challenging and almost unresolvable factors seemed to be woven into my very existence.
I WISH some of you would order this book (used from Amazon - it's out of print), so we could talk about it.
For full disclosure, I've been into this approach before when I studied rebirthing in the late 70s. One of Leonard Orr's main contentions was that we have a Life Urge and a Death Urge, and one of the affirmations was this:
"As long as I keep strengthening my Life Urge and releasing my Death Urge, I am growing in radiant health."
Dr. Arnold says that in a way, all death is suicide, but that pretty much all illness is when we are flirting with getting out of here, or at least resisting being here, but it's in conflict with our desire to stay. I would say that chronic illness could only be that.
I'm deeply meditating on this stuff - having a bit of an inner renaissance.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| art |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 19:31:09
I dunno. Color me skeptical. The notion that good health is a matter of choice, while useful on many levels, can lead to all sorts of misunderstandings. What about a happy 7 year old kid who suddenly gets leukemia to point out just one difficulty with this mindset?
And shall we routinely start prescribing psychotherapy for cancer patients to go along with their chemo?
I've never really bought that we have some meaningful impulse toward death anyway. There's nothing more powerful than the will to live. It's who we are, and what we've inherited after many millions of years of evolution. Every cell in our body tells us....screams at us in times of emergency...to survive.
Sure, the human mind is sometimes too complicated for its own good. People become so unhappy, or so full of rage, that they end their own lives. But I believe a discussion that begins with the premise that there's a death wish powerful enough under ordinary circumstances to cause us to make ourselves sick just seems wrong to me. |
| Erata |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 14:31:40
I just got my copy yesterday through Amazon. So far, it's a great book, it really addresses mind/body.
I paid more than a penny, but I just checked Amazon and, though not the latest edition, there are plenty of used copies for under a dollar. Well worth it.
Thank you Wavy! |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 22:44:58
Aha, maybe I was reading Steve's book in the middle of the night and went to order it without remembering - it just arrived in the mail and I had no memory of ordering it.
Yes, I think I got the last cheapo copies. I'm thinking of getting some copies made at Kinko's or something.
Anyway, the point that everything is a result of the fight between will to live or will to die continues to make great sense to me, and of course he goes much much more deeply into things than that. It does amaze me that this was written before I was born!
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 21:21:44
Wavy, I'm reading "The Will to Live" also, and I agree; it's fantastic! How far off the tracks we've gone since 1950 when his book came out.
As you may know, this book is cited a couple of times in SteveO's book, "The Great Pain Deception" but it sounds like you came upon it accidentally. I got it from the library and then tried to go on Amazon to buy a copy, but amazingly, they are priced at 100's of dollars! I don't know how you got your one penny copy. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 22:24:19
that's it, tennis BALLS (don't know why it was censored) 
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 22:01:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
And TT: I thought love was looking at Nadal's ****
I thought ass only had three letters? Uh, butt? Oh, Nadal's tennis balls!  |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 19:34:54
Well - not as pure and extraordinary as Frankl, perhaps, but it feels incredibly pertinent to our TMS journey here.
And TT: I thought love was looking at Nadal's ****
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 19:31:32
Leonard Orr. Rebirthing. The est training. Actualizations. Rolfing. Takes me back to the 70's when I did all that stuff and more. Great fun, most of it, but unfortunately, not much substance to any of it, especially the Leonard Orr stuff.(my opinion). Don't forget, Orr was also into "physical immortality" and get rich quick (his money seminars).
Anyway, I will have to read "The Will to Live" Wavy, on your recommendation. Sounds a lot like the great classic, "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 19:07:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
Yeah, Love is The Answer, now what was the question again?
Love is the answer, whatever the question
I'll take a stab at it, it's the score in tennis when you don't have any points. 
I have a tennis t-shirt that says "Love Stinks".
Cheers Kiddo,
tt |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 18:38:34
I think I paid 1 cent plus 3:99 shipping - but I bought 3 - perhaps it is getting rare!
Yeah, Love is The Answer, now what was the question again?
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| lynnl |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 11:36:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
Dr. Arnold says that in a way, all death is suicide, but that pretty much all illness is when we are flirting with getting out of here, or at least resisting being here, but it's in conflict with our desire to stay. I would say that chronic illness could only be that.
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Wow! The price of that book is all over the map. Over $500 for some.
What does the cover of your book look like, Wavy Soul? ...or the print date?
But to the point, after embarking on my TMS journey, I came to the same belief. I think, in a nutshell, the answer as to why some people live well into the 100's is to be found in this idea. I don't mean to suggest that's the sole reason; certainly, hereditary and environmental factors are key players. But even the hereditary factors may be manifested in that manner, i.e. through mental/emotional ways.
Although I don't have any well defined rationale, I also believe that something along the same lines is the cause of Alzeheimers. Somehow or other the mind is doing that to itself.
By the way, personally I find slogans or quotes in signature lines tiresome after seeing them more than two or three times (...that's just me, not an admonishment to anyone). But your "Love is the answer, whatever the question" is the one exception.
It is so very appropriate, especially for this forum!
Lynn |
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