| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| marytabby |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 07:31:10
Hi everyone,
I'm a long time TMS'er and need help on something. I have had a really bad pain in my bicep and forearm muscle for 6 months. Long story short, lifting things like a gallon of milk causes pain. I figured I must have pulled the bicep working out. In December I went to my local TMS doc here in the Boston area. He did a physical exam and said it's likely TMS. Ok, so I accepted that and went home and "bulled through" the pain as Sarno would say to do. Here we are now 6 months later, pain is still not gone despite doing the TMS work that got rid of my back pain. So I went back to my TMS doc two weeks ago and he did an MRI just to be sure it's not something more than TMS. Films showed inflammation at the bicep insertion joint. He said yes, this inflammation, whatever caused it, would explain why the pain is there and then reminded me that Sarno does not consider inflammation to be TMS, so this is NOT TMS afterall, I must have just overdid something and just rest it. So does the inflammation that showed up on the film mean that yes, this is structural, or no, this is TMS?
A little confused only because the pain is not going away despite resting it. |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| art |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 08:06:53
They are indeed finding that unless you've got something major..a tear for example...continued light activity is better than complete rest.
Sports injuries...overuse injuries...are still a medical mystery (unless you're a sarno disciple). |
| Benjamin Thomas |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 15:20:34
quote:
Originally posted by marytabby
Thanks, Art. The MRI report says "edema is present at the biceps brachii tendon" and "Elbow joint effusion is present". So I guess there's swelling in two spots. So I'm resting it and will see how I do.
Hey,
I got the same thing for my hands, edema. I have two points which are slightly swollen. I have actually rested them for some time now, but they swelling did not go away at all. Interestingely, the pain was independent from the swollen parts and moved around it. I also had a tennis elbow with mild edema, but it hurt like hell.
In my experience, TMS treatment will ease the pain, but you still need to do some resting. But do not make the mistake, to think it was completely caused by an injury. Recent injuries heal fast, even if you move them. I talked to a physician about this, who confirmed it. He supervised international sports teams, where injuries occured frequently. He always recommended to his team, to start moving, as soon as the pain has decreased to a good level. Total resting is completely outdated. If you wann know why, I can go more into that, but I do not wanna go to much into the mechanistics here.
I have actually posted about this before, with physical evidence and TMS involvment.
Benjamin |
| art |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 19:36:06
Hey Mary,
Glad you got the MRI along with the TMS consult. Very smart to do your due diligence. I should learn something from your example. Could have saved myself unnecessary pain and further injury.
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| marytabby |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 12:03:38
Thanks, Art. The MRI report says "edema is present at the biceps brachii tendon" and "Elbow joint effusion is present". So I guess there's swelling in two spots. So I'm resting it and will see how I do.
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| art |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 11:37:51
I had bicep tendonitis a few years ago Mary and decided to treat it as TMS despite the fact that there were indications it was real (stable symptoms, credible context for injury, a few other things. I ended up making the situation much worse.
Botton line, if you have inflammation you have to rest it. The cause of that inflammation might be debatable, but in a practical sense I don't see that it matters...
Feel better :-) |
| marytabby |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 04:04:04
Well I initially treated it as TMS so kept working out despite the pain so no idea if I was aggravating a real strain or not. I've been laying off it now for 3 weeks and no change... |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 16:29:35
What doesn't make sense to me, Marytabby, is that there would still be inflammation six months later. Inflammation does not last that long unless you are continually aggravating it. Are you?
Anyway, I had pain at the same area for many months and in frustration, was about to consider an MRI because the pain never went away. It would disappear for a day or days then return. Then it would be severe, then mild. Made no sense! Finally, I saw an enlightened pt (knows about Sarno) who also does dry needling. He assured me I could not possibly have a tear and told me NOT to get an mri. Instead, he did some dry needling (which he admitted could have a placebo response), had me watch some videos on the brain and chronic pain, and finally, had me start to daily do weights at the edge of the pain.
Problem solved. At first, the pain would return occasionally, but for shorter and shorter periods. He told me that was normal and that gradually it would disappear for good as it seems to have. Haven't had any problem for at least 5-6 wks, whereas before, I had the problem for almost a year. In my case, persistent TMS, no doubt. The needling and videos allowed me to relax, realize there was nothing wrong in my arm and that the brain was the culprit.
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| Dave |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 08:20:40
quote:
Originally posted by marytabby
Thanks, Dave. So let's assume I "rest" it and the inflammation is TMS induced. By resting it, am I telling my brain it's structural? I'm confused. One thing I've learned on this board is not to confuse the mind by saying one thing and doing another. (i.e "It's TMS, but I think I'll lay off it a while just in case"). I'm trying to get the right message thru.
Don't overthink it. While it is certainly possible there is a TMS component to your muscle pain, there is a physical issue that needs to be healed.
When TMS produces painful back spasms, they do not go away overnight. Although the pain was manufactured by the brain, it did induce a "real" injury in the muscle that needs to heal.
As long as your are steadfast in your belief and acceptance of TMS, taking it easy on your muscle for awhile should not be detrimental. If you resume normal physical activity too soon, and the pain continues, it could be counterproductive as it will build frustration and shake your belief in TMS. |
| eliuri |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 21:40:48
I vaguely recall that pain in itself may produce an inflammatory response...Something about Substance P...
Anyone know if that true?
If so, inflammation in itself doesn't show that the pain is of structural origin.
-eliuri |
| lynnl |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 17:28:22
After discoverying the Sarno TMS model, in the late '90s, I've found it very effective at resolving what I'd call tendinitus or tennis elbow.
However, the worst case of tennis elbow I ever had (from playing tennis, of all things!) was long before I knew of Sarno and TMS. After several months of pain I made a vow to consciously avoid every motion with that arm that invoked the pain. (It would only hurt when lifting with the forearm in certain specific orientations.) Sure enough, within a month or so the pain was resolved.
Now as to what actually took place, I'll never know. Perhaps it was simply the rest period that allowed inflamed tissues to heal. ...Or perhaps by effectively averting the pain via non-use, I subverted my mind's efforts to use it as a distraction or tool for repression.
Lynn |
| marytabby |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 15:39:40
Thanks, Dave. So let's assume I "rest" it and the inflammation is TMS induced. By resting it, am I telling my brain it's structural? I'm confused. One thing I've learned on this board is not to confuse the mind by saying one thing and doing another. (i.e "It's TMS, but I think I'll lay off it a while just in case"). I'm trying to get the right message thru. |
| Dave |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 11:01:59
I personally do not agree that inflammation cannot be due to TMS.
If the auto-immune system is a target of TMS, then why can't it produce inflammation in the same manner that it reduces blood flow to nerves and muscles?
Still, the inflammation is real and needs to heal, so it would be prudent to take it easy on those muscles for awhile. |
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