| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kstarnes |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 11:01:14
I am beginning to do more physical activities (yoga, jogging, stretching, and golf). The problem I keep having is the fear of a pain or spasm just before, and as, I am doing some of these activities. Does anyone have any mental exercises or strong words (s)he uses to overcome these fears?
kevin starnes |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 20:16:32
Art, I never actually read Szasz's book, but wasn't his thesis that mental illness is a societly created label based upon deviance from the norm? I wasn't aware it was a Freud-bashing book in particular.
Yes, Sarno's theory seems to rely strongly on Freud, and I know Freud is very much out of favor nowadays because of some errors in his theories. Still, I don't think this means everything he said was invalid. I think his trinity of super-ego, ego, and id rings true to anyone who really thinks about it. It seems very likely that the brain would use pain to distract from the dangerous hidden emotions of the id. In fact, I am having a renewed faith in Sarno's supposition of unconscious rage as a major factor in tms. I know we've talked about fear being the main thing, the thing that keeps it alive, and that's probably true. But I, for one, get the occasional fleeting rage, often over something trivial, and then it is quickly suppressed as unacceptable. It feels almost automatic, this reaction, a combination of intentional suppression and unintentional repression, if you know what I mean.
I'm starting to think it may not matter so much to identify the exact science behind what is really happening as long as what we do works. Anyway, how does one "prove" any of these concepts? Read Steve O's new book. I was dismissive of it before I read it, but I went away thinking it was probably the best tms book I've read. Yes, he goes off on tangents and goes well beyond what Sarno might say, and much of it is speculative, maybe even "new-agey" but it certainly provides a wealth of fascinating ideas. |
| balto |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 05:11:55
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
I have learned that just because one loses the fear of pain does not mean the pain will go away. In fact, it may persist for a long time afterwards, even years. But one thing is for sure, one will never recover from TMS if they allow fear of pain to dominate their lives.
My were gone within months and it has not come back for years. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 16:18:21
I have learned that just because one loses the fear of pain does not mean the pain will go away. In fact, it may persist for a long time afterwards, even years. But one thing is for sure, one will never recover from TMS if they allow fear of pain to dominate their lives. |
| art |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 16:02:17
Wrld,
I remember reading Szasz back in college and being quite impressed with his penetrating exposure of psychoanalysis as a pseudoscience. I was a big Freudian in those days, and it was a bit of a shakeup for me. I find Freud's ideas antiquated and absurd now, though I continue to respect his great genius.
Let's not forget that Sarno's approach is psychodynamic as well, something that in my opinion causes much unnecessary trouble for us TMS sufferers. |
| balto |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 07:11:32
My main goal in my battle against tms/anxiety is to elliminate Fear from my brain. Over the year I have collected a pretty good size library on how to deal with fear and would like to slowly share it on this forum. I didn't wrote any of them, just collected them through emails and the www.
------------------------------------------
If you find yourself becoming overly anxious, use the following steps to help you calm down and start to regain control.
Tip 1 – Breathing is the short circuit for anxiety
I know I know, you hear a lot about ‘deep breathing’ to help you relax and reduce anxiety, but bear with me.
Quicker, shallower breathing is the first trigger which catapults all the other anxious symptoms into action. So by controlling breathing you control all the other anxiety symptoms as well.
If you purposely breathe out longer than you breathe in, your body has to calm right down (regardless of what tricks your imagination is playing on you).
So if you start to feel fearful:
•Stop
•Focus on your breath
•Take a breath in (to the quick count of 7 in your mind)
•Then slowly breathe out (to the quick count of 11 in your mind)
If you do this for a minute or so, you’ll be amazed how quickly you’ve calmed down. We call this ‘7/11 breathing’ but the numbers are up to you, just as long as the out-breath is longer than the in-breath.
“That’s all very well!” I hear you say. “But when I get anxious I forget everything and all good advice goes out the window!”
Good point and well made. This brings us to…
2 – Prepare for peaceful performance
If you get anxious and fear upcoming events, you’ll notice that just thinking about that interview, speech, or whatever will start to cause physical responses – namely, anxiety.
So you might be thinking about next Wednesday’s dental appointment and find yourself breathing more quickly or your palms getting moist. This in turn primes your body to become even more anxious in the actual situation and so the vicious cycle continues. And note the role of the imagination in priming your mind and body to feel fearful .
But you’re going to find that breathing in a relaxed 7/11 way whilst imagining the upcoming situation ahead of time calms the association down, priming your mind to feel more relaxed naturally and automatically when the actual situation arrives.
So when you find yourself thinking about the future event, do 7/11 breathing.
One symptom of too much fear or anxiety is not being able to think clearly (Nasrudin stumbled into the nearest tomb!). This happens because the emotional part of the brain ‘swamps’ the thinking part so as to avoid, say, over-analysis getting in the way of running like Bejessus from a lion.
But in most modern situations we want to retain clear thought. And keeping your ‘thinking brain’ working actually calms you right down. The next step helps you do that.
3 – Use a different part of your brain
When we become very anxious, it’s harder to think clearly. But if we force ourselves to use parts of ‘the thinking brain’, this will dilute the emotion and begin to calm you down.
The easiest way to do this is with numbers. You can scale your own fear from 1 to 10, 10 being the most terrified it’s possible to be and 1 being the ultimate relaxed state.
When you’re feeling anxious, ask yourself: “Okay what number on the scale am I right now? Am I a 7, or a 5?” Just doing this will lower anxiety because it kick-starts the thinking brain, diluting the emotion and automatically making you calmer.
I recall the first time I gave a speech to three hundred people. Just before I was about to start, I was feeling more anxious than I would have liked. So I scaled myself at a 6, breathed longer out than in for a few moments, and waited for myself to go down to a 3 before starting. I took control. Scaling (sometimes known as ‘grading’) your fear puts a ‘fence’ around it, making it more manageable, and forces you to think.
4 – Get control of your imagination
Fear and anxiety thrive when we imagine the worst. We developed imagination to be able to project into the future so we can plan ahead. However, a side effect of being able to imagine possible positive futures is being able to imagine things going wrong. A bit of this is useful; after all, there really might be muggers or loan sharks. But uncontrolled imagination is a nesting ground for anxiety and fear that can spoil otherwise happy lives.
Some people misuse their imagination chronically and so suffer much more anxiety than those who either future-project their imaginations constructively or who don’t tend to think about the future much at all. Anxious, chronic worriers tend to misuse their imaginations to the extent that upcoming events feel like catastrophes waiting to happen. No wonder whole lives can be blighted by fear and anxiety.
Some people don’t even really know they are doing this. So:
•Sit down and do your 7/11 breathing.
•Count yourself down from whatever number you deem yourself to be to a 2 or a 1.
•Imagine seeing yourself in the situation you were dreading, but see yourself being calm, composed, cool, and comfortable and things going well. Doing this starts to recondition your mind to feel calmer and more upbeat about upcoming events or regular situations which were causing anxiety.
5 – Use the AWARE technique
Fear and anxiety can feel as if they ‘just happen to us’, but we have much more control than we realize. AWARE is an acronym standing for:
A: Accept the anxiety. Don’t try to fight it.
W: Watch the anxiety. Just watch it and when you notice it, scale your level of fear and start to breathe longer on the out-breath.
A: Stands for ‘Act normally’. Carry on talking or behaving as if nothing is different. This sends a powerful signal to your unconscious mind that its over-dramatic response is actually not needed because nothing that unusual is going on. Like fire fighters coming out and seeing that no emergency is happening and so going back to the fire station.
R: Repeat the above steps in your mind if necessary.
E: Expect the best. One of the greatest feelings in life is the realization that you can control fear much more than you thought possible.
Overcoming fear and anxiety will give you the ‘spare capacity’ in life to focus on what you really want to be and do. It takes effort, but imagine the rewards.
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| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 06:54:55
Dear Tom, I look forward to your progress. Dont baby your hip in any way, actually do more movements that make the pain come on as if you dont care, put more weight on it when you walk etc dont let up. At first it will be very painful but as you gain confidence, it will start to be easier. Use affirmations, like Im strong and healthy as you do this all day. Tension reduction in my particular case has also been helpful so far by using the affirmation I'm calm relaxed and patient multiple times in the day. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 06:43:08
wrld,
Szasz is still around. He is an MD psychiatrist, which is where the control of the diagnostic rubrics in the area of "mental illness" resides, and also the level at which all medications are prescribed. GP's consult the BS manual as authority for prescribing antidepressants. Last summer, three new books were reviewed in this article. Give it a read, or better yet, pick up the books from the library, and you will see the echo of Szasz resonating loudly, particularly with the "epidemic" of mental illnesses diagnosed in the 20 years between 1987 and 2007, and the alarming, yet nearly wholly ineffective use of prescription psychoactive poisons we now call "medication."
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 06:32:05
Well hell then, I guess I've been suffering needlessly all these years thanks to the power of the NOCEBO! I will treat my hip as TMS from here on. Thanks doc, I wish I'd met you earlier, I'll sleep on it and let you know how it goes.
Cheers |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 06:24:16
Dear Tom,
I already asked him that question. He said point blank if the person can accept it fully as TMS, then it will respond. Remember when he wrote HBP about the miracle of replacement, it was back in the 80s. I just asked him about 1-2 years ago. good luck |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 06:23:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
... but I am not quite back to like when I was a child, which is what I call cured.
That seems quite ambitious. When we are young if we are in a stable loving household we have no worries about making a living. All our needs our taken care of by our families, the biggest decision we have to make all day is what cereal to eat in the morning. This changes as we have to take on responsibility for our needs and for others and that's when TMS can rear it's ugly head. Our subconscious adult mind is in conflict with our primitive childlike mind creating repressed rage. Dr. Sarno found back pain lessened in seniors, when logically, if the back were weakening due to aging, there should be more back pain the older we get. But with retirement stress lessens, (although I don't think this will hold true much longer due to the rapid changes and growing uncertainties of the future going on in the US at least).
Ah, yes why is youth wasted on the youth? In professional tennis you're an old man at 30, Agassi retired at 36, he was one of the oldest, with "back problems". To even out the playing field for the ravages of time and gravity, they developed age group competition where you compete with your peers in five year increments like senior tennis or master swimming.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 05:57:21
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Hi Tom
I'm glad that you feel good except for your hip. I still maintain you are not cured as long as you have any chronic pain.
Well I sure wish I had gone to see you for my TMS dx, I would have been very happy to have been told my hip was due to TMS and not "significant arthritis". The two doctors who DX'ed me were Dr. Eisendorf and Dr. Schechter, both of whom studied with Dr. Sarno. Since you are a doctor perhaps you can check with them why they told me that? You have told me I have TMS, and I would love to believe you so that I too can be "cured" like Hillbilly and Balto. You told me Dr. Sarno says hips are TMS yet he also extolls the virtues of hip-replacement surgery as a modern medical miracle. This leads me to the conclusion that he must sometimes think they are not TMS. Since you have access to the Good Doctor, perhaps you can do me a favor and ask him when hips are TMS and when they are not and he advises surgery.
Cheers
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 05:37:13
quote:
Originally posted by kstarnes
I am beginning to do more physical activities (yoga, jogging, stretching, and golf). The problem I keep having is the fear of a pain or spasm just before, and as, I am doing some of these activities. Does anyone have any mental exercises or strong words (s)he uses to overcome these fears?
kevin starnes
In replying to the OP's original question, yes, there is something I say to myself when I feel the pain, I say: "IT'S JUST TMS"! and I'm finding this is enough to distract my mind from the pain to what I want to do. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 05:31:46
Sorry last sentence should say: While it is possible that everyone is different and that what took for them to get better might not be the case for others, I still think it is important to take their stories into account |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 05:25:27
Hi Tom
I'm glad that you feel good except for your hip. I still maintain you are not cured as long as you have any chronic pain. I myself can do anything like you and I am improving daily, but I am not quite back to like when I was a child, which is what I call cured. Actually what hillbilly is saying makes sense with what dr sarno says bc he says to overcome your fear of using your body and do all the things you were afraid to do - he says that this is the most important part of the therapeutic program. Actually if you remember, dr sarno also says in hbp that it is very rare for a recurrence, which is something that is significant enough to change your life. People like balto and hillbilly are people who failed applying dr sarnos principles at first and would normally have been shipped over to a psychotherapist. But yet, they were able to recover in just a few weeks when they understood something they were missing. This is the missing link to the many that are still suffering on this board and this is why I tend to specifically ask them questions. While it is possible that everyone is different and that is all that took for them to get better but it might not be the case for others, I still think it is important to take their stories into account |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 23:01:53
Tom,
If I should need "the use of TMS psychogenic or affective symptoms as a protective defense mechanism so as not to be emotionaly overwhelmed" I shall welcome them. I believe I would refer to them as stress symptoms, though, due to my affinity for the simple. I was born and raised in Kentucky, remember. I posted a rebuttal to your statement initially because a) it is false, and b) because it could lead people to believe that they are working very hard on changing their way of looking at their pain only to affect a decrease in its severity and chalk the rest up to being human. I have three humans who live in my house, and nary a one has TMS or any of its "equivalents."
I remember reading in Healing Back Pain that Dr. Sarno saw this as a cradle-to-grave syndrome. I take that to mean lifelong. When pain goes and switches to something else, it is the symptom imperative. But what about when the pain goes and nothing else is there? Where is my symptom imperative?
What the quotation you lifted from TDM says is that as long as we are human, we will be susceptible to these problems. I agree that anyone can be thrown a curveball by stress, misread it, worry it into staying around and wreck their lives. I did it. But if we are to help a higher percentage of people recover, I think it's necessary that we simply hold them accountable for the responsibilities of daily life even while they suffer and focus on their goals instead of their limitations. Relapses can and often do happen, but the same path must be followed out the second or third time as the first. Lose the fear of the symptoms and all that is left is facing life, viscissitudes, calamities, and all.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 22:24:17
Ace1, and everyone else, you'll have to excuse me, it just occurred to me that you are looking for folks who are symptom free "cured". In that case I am CURED and have been for many years. I deflect TMS symptoms quite regularly, too many to list at the moment. I now understand that because I'm a "hippy", I don't qualify for the "cured" category. I wouldn't give up my hip--whatever it is from--for the world. It's been my best coach and showed me who my real friends are. I'm here not because I'm stuck looking for a "cure", I'm here because I'm a Sarno devotee and have always been interested in psychology--if anything I'm an incurable goodist--I'm waiting for a pill for that.
For all intents and purposes I'm TMS "cured", a functional business man employing a staff of 20, sleep well, have a good long term relationship with a lovely lady, could get in my Jeep and drive cross-country and back, ran in the pool for an hour yesterday, my only disfunction is being a step slow for national senior tournament tennis but play nearly everyday for two to four hours. So I'm declaring myself TMS "CURED"! |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 21:45:37
Is Thomas Szasz still around? I remember his "Myth of Mental Illness" was big in the late 60's. The quotation about psychoanalysts seems outdated as there are very few left. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 20:02:12
How do you know what vicissitudes and calamities the future will place in your path that will not require the use of TMS psychogenic or affective symptoms as a protective defense mechanism so as not to be emotionaly overwhelmed? |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 19:47:47
Thanks guys for your responses. Dear tt, just bc dr sarno says it doesn't mean it's right. Don't get me wrong it was because of him that I was sent on the right track. He is a genius to see beyond what almost every other physician didn't see. Hillbilly is telling us he has no more symptoms after a severe case of tms. Now I'm sure he is not beyond an occasional headache but it is a rarity just like when we were children and I think this is what is considered cured. If we have examples of people cured using different methods then something doesn't fully fit with doctor sarnos theory. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 15:47:24
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
quote:
As long as you are part of the human condition you will never be completely free of TMS pain.
This statement is completely false. I know no less than 10 people personally who have enjoyed a complete recovery from chronic pain with no recurrence for years.
On page 87 of Dr. Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND, there is a passage that simplified, clarified and summed up TMS for me:
"...Freud and his followers, considered psychosomatic manifestations as a form of illness representing defective personalities. I strongly disagree. Psychosomatic phenomena are not a form of illness. They must be seen as part of the human condition-to which everyone is susceptible. They include a wide range of disorders, some very serious and even life threatening, but our view is that they may all be traced back to the primeval conflict between our two minds, the uncoscious and the conscious, the id and the ego and supergo, the ancient "paleomammalian mind" and the modern "neomammalian mind," each mind reacting in the only way it knows to the pressures of daily life."
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