| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| im2bob |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 07:44:04
Sarno's last daily reminder is to "think psychologically at all times". Yet, he cautions us not to obsess over the specific emotions at the root of our TMS. This seems a little contradictory to me. Can anyone (particularly those who have had success) share what "think psychologically" means to you? What do you set your mind on?
Update on me. I am about a month into my TMS healing. My pain has gotten worse. I am optimistic that this is in fact a good sign, that my unconscious is fighting my progress. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| lynnl |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 14:14:56
quote:
Originally posted by im2bob
I think it was Lynn who could not understand how someone suffering from TMS symptoms could run a marathon. Well I am here to tell you that I did just two weeks ago. It was my first and I did it in 3:57. I am not in TMS pain while in the act of running. But as soon as I stop, I go back to my hell. I know it sounds crazy.
[quote]
[quote]Originally posted by lynnl
[br
I see people here talking about running marathons and such, which makes me wonder just what their pain intensity is. As for mine, on a scale of 0 to 10, with 10 equating to a finger smashed in a car door, my pain was about an 11 or 12, or at times more. I know that because a short while later I DID smash my finger between a 3ft long 4" round steel bar and concrete floor. I would've gladly traded that sciatica for 4 smashed fingers.
The notion of trying to run more than a few steps at that time would've been preposterous. Once I started getting control of the pain, then yes I did start resuming normal activities ...with no fear of relapsing, I would add.
Lynn
Well I didn't say someone suffering with TMS could not run a marathon. My statement (above) was questioning the level or intensity of their pain. You say you're not in pain when running. Then it makes perfect sense to do so.
In my case my butt and leg just simply would not permit more than a few steps at a jogging pace. Believe me I tried it several times (jogging, not a marathon). The pain deep in my gluteus maximus would be so intense the muscle would just lock up and I'd plop onto the ground. Also the calf muscles became so weak that my foot just sort of dangled and flopped around.
Lynn |
| sarah430 |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 15:48:58
Hi,
I'm new to this forum, but not new to TMS. I've had my current manifestation (sciatic-like nerve pain) for about 1-1/2 years. I discovered TMS a year ago and it really helped me - but the pain came back after about 6 months. And of course it took me a while to clue in that this was TMS again. As soon as I came back to that conclusion and started reading about TMS again, my pain has greatly decreased.
I just wanted to add that I agree fear is a big component for me. The fear of pain is a huge trigger. I can wake up pain free, but as soon as I start thinking about the pain and assessing any little twinge, the pain explodes. So dealing with that fear and not obsessing about the pain is key for me. Today it helps to tell myself that the pain is just an inconvenience and not necessarily a sign that it will keep getting worse. So I can still acknowledge the pain but not go crazy thinking about it which makes it worse.
Also, I'm a hardcore runner. I've completed 40+ marathons/ultramarathons and counting. My pain can be off the charts 10+ when at work or home, but it's usually non-existent or manageable when I run. Sometimes it's hard to get over that pain fear and actually get out for a run because it can often be awful after a run -- which fuels my doubts about it really being TMS. But yes, a person can be in A LOT of pain and still do physical activities. |
| im2bob |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 08:37:00
Thanks for all the responses. It's been a great discussion.
I think it was Lynn who could not understand how someone suffering from TMS symptoms could run a marathon. Well I am here to tell you that I did just two weeks ago. It was my first and I did it in 3:57. I am not in TMS pain while in the act of running. But as soon as I stop, I go back to my hell. I know it sounds crazy.
I do think I have the right belief model to beat this. I am frustrated that it is taking so much time. I am trying not to think about it too much. My pain has actually gotten worse and has changed a bit to include tinnitus and what I perceive as weakness. I am taking this as a good sign...that my I'd is fighting the inevitable.
quote:
Originally posted by lynnl
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
... I'm sure both of you exercise daily which I really havent been doing due to time constriants but I think that would probably halp speed the process up.
A little confession here: For the last 3 or 4 years my main exercise has taken the form of operating the remote for the TV. 
That's somewhat of an exageration of course. But I don't think exercise has any direct bearing on TMS type pains one way or the other.
I emphasize "direct" because indirectly it can if, for example, failure to do it leads to guilt or self recriminating feelings, while doing it gives rise to better feelings about one's self.
I think the main benefit, or at least a major benefit, of things like losing weight, quitting smoking, and other such self-improvement steps is the positive changes that take place in your mind and self esteem. Most everyone who has ever quit smoking would, within a matter of a few short days or weeks, comment on how much better they feel. Now this is not to say that there aren't long term health gains to be made. Of course there are! I'm just speaking of the short term or near-immediate benefits people will report.
Lynn
|
| lynnl |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 16:13:36
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
... I'm sure both of you exercise daily which I really havent been doing due to time constriants but I think that would probably halp speed the process up.
A little confession here: For the last 3 or 4 years my main exercise has taken the form of operating the remote for the TV.
That's somewhat of an exageration of course. But I don't think exercise has any direct bearing on TMS type pains one way or the other.
I emphasize "direct" because indirectly it can if, for example, failure to do it leads to guilt or self recriminating feelings, while doing it gives rise to better feelings about one's self.
I think the main benefit, or at least a major benefit, of things like losing weight, quitting smoking, and other such self-improvement steps is the positive changes that take place in your mind and self esteem. Most everyone who has ever quit smoking would, within a matter of a few short days or weeks, comment on how much better they feel. Now this is not to say that there aren't long term health gains to be made. Of course there are! I'm just speaking of the short term or near-immediate benefits people will report.
Lynn |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 15:59:17
Thanks balto. I will try to do as you said more consistently. You guys are the best and very helpful. I have been doing what you have said to do but my job is were It has been the slowest in terms of deconditioning. Actually when at home I don't get the automatic fear response only sometimes at work which makes me believe that the high tension level there is making my mInd try its best to grab my attention. I will update you guys after sometime to tell you of the additional progress I indent to make. Thanks again. |
| balto |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 15:44:34
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Hi Balto, thank you for your response and your concern. My life itself really can't be changed, I am becoming, more and more at peace but I cannot change my life per se, in terms of my job or 3 little kids all below the age of 4. I am not overworked and do not do things intensely anymore. According to Hillbilly's account, he seems really not to be trying to attain more peace but it was more just overcoming the fear of his symptoms. I personally am not afraid of my symptoms and I do everything I want. I have noticed an automatic feeling of fear that comes on when I challenge it and I have a strong feeling that this is what is keeping me from attaining 100% cure. It seems that everyone trys to change this feeling to a feeling of being strong etc, by saying your not going to win etc. You said that when you stopped fearing (i assume it was that automatic reaction feeling)you got better in a few weeks after years of pain. If you even read Fred Amir's book, he seems very intense throughout the book even after he has conquered his pain yet he has been symptom free for years. Please let me know if you relate in what I am saying and anyone's comments in regards to this is welcome. Also any insight on the best way to overcome the automatic feeling of fear would be helpful
I went to Thailand one time and met this Buddhist monk. He belong to the Forest Sangha tradition. Hardcore members of this Buddhist tradition often wandered alone around the countryside. They live in caves. Sleep in the forests, in cemeteries... expose themself to nature and all of it's dangers. He told me greed and fear is the worst poison for our soul and body. Facing fear with a calm mind, with a peaceful mind over and over again helped him elliminate fearful thought from his mind. He said fear exist no where else but our minds. We only feel fearful if our mind perceived what we fear as dangerous or harmful. By constantly endure what we think is dangerous with an unconcern mind, that dangerous thing will loose it's power over time.
I guess I was lucky. Somehow, when I made up my mind and told myself not to be affraid of anything anymore, my mind just complied. I even think if I do happen to get cancer or any of those serious diseases, I wouldn't be affraid or worry. I would be concern but I wouldn't be fearful. Dead and tax are the only 2 "sure" things in life, it will come to all of us. What is there to be affraid of.
I use to tell one of my friend: fear is useless. Every time you have a fearful feeling just stop everything, sit down, and calmly analyze it. Ask yourself if that fearful feeling is helping you in anyway? Even if the disease is a real incuralbe physical ailment, even if that pain feel horrible, is the fear of it helping you at all? Be concern, be anything but don't fear it, because fear is useless even in real dangerous situations. Over time your mind tend to believe you and that automatic fearful feeling just don't come on as often.
|
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 12:11:26
Thanks Lynn, I have thought that many times, thanks for your response.
Thanks again Hillbilly, for all the times you have reponded to my posts. Belive it or not I have read CLaire Weekes and I am not avoiding the situations and I am floating. I am also getting better and also doing everything. I however am not yet were you and Balto are right now. Now I have a job where I deal with dying cancer patients everyday, also 3 little kids that do require constant care when I get home. I am doing everything and exposing myself without restriction, but it is a slow process so far for me, maybe it will just take more time. I was just trying to see if I could get there faster like both of you. I'm sure both of you exercise daily which I really havent been doing due to time constriants but I think that would probably halp speed the process up. |
| lynnl |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 11:57:13
Well Ace1, as I said before, my resolution was accompanied by a very profound sense of peace and tranquility and serenity.
Now, having said that, I can't say with absolute certainty whether I was experiencing the "chicken" or the "egg." Did my peace and tranquility beget my pain resolution? ...or vice versa? My strong suspicion is that the initial pain relief spawned peace/tranquility, which subsequently spawned more pain relief, which in turn spawned more peace, which in turn.... (and on, and on).
Lynn |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 11:47:36
Ace,
Have you read Claire Weekes? If you haven't, you should. Hers is a much more scientific explanation of the interrelation of mood and ANS, but she doesn't spend a great deal of time with that because she wants to talk directly to sufferers.
Anyway, her advice is to find a quiet place to examine your symptoms and put them in perspective. She wants you to really give them an evaluation of just how important they are and what threat they pose to you. I believe this is key. If you are able to reduce their specter in this way, you are on your way.
Then, her advice is to face the situations that you fear and float past and through your symptoms, not just when they are there, but especially when they are at their worst and you are at your most vulnerable of seeking relief or egress. This is the cure in itself, because once you've stood up to your nervous system and didn't die or experience whatever calamity you created for yourself, your brain cannot play tricks like this again because you know you've conquered it.
I played this little game with my son the other day. He's 11, and like most boys he jumps to touch things constantly to test his "hops." He was just shy of touching the ceiling in our house. I mean less than an inch. So I taped a penny to the ceiling and let it dangle down. I told him to jump and touch the penny, which he did, and inadvertently scraped the ceiling with his finger. Since then he can't stop jumping up to touch the ceiling and hasn't failed to get it more than once or twice. His confidence grew. He did the same action and got a different result, so he learned it and stored it away.
That's where you need help from a person who has been through this. They can beckon from beyond the wall of fear you see between you and freedom, but they can't make you step toward and through it. Only you can. It's difficult and more than a little disappointing when people shy away when they are so close to regaining their health. Perhaps some would rather have the excuse than do the difficult work in repairing their lives after so much hurt and disappointment. But then why would they be searching still? I don't know, and I digress.
You asked about GI upsets, and what to do. You can't do anything about them really except not allow them to keep you from going out and doing things, and if you get a gurgling gut, find a toilet and go, but don't dwell on it or get upset wondering why me or when will this ever stop. Laugh about it and go on with your life.
I did buy a fiber supplement that helped me go in the morning right after I woke, and that helped calm me from thinking about it. The IBS and insomnia went before the pain was gone, though. I noticed that once I was confident in my recovery I began sleeping like a baby, and the IBS was no longer an issue either. The last symptom to leave was also the first. It was a sense of walking on a ship or dizziness that was bizarre and frightening at times. Once I realized it was all from contractions in the vascular and nervous systems due to stress, I was able to eventually relax toward it and let it be there without bothering me.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 11:21:48
I also want to clarify that I do think being at peace is very helpful and has helped me tremendously, My point is that many people who have seemed to have recovered seem to not require this point which is somewhat mystifying to me. It also seems that the automatiatic fear of the symptoms seems to be huge. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 10:54:37
Hi Balto, thank you for your response and your concern. My life itself really can't be changed, I am becoming, more and more at peace but I cannot change my life per se, in terms of my job or 3 little kids all below the age of 4. I am not overworked and do not do things intensely anymore. According to Hillbilly's account, he seems really not to be trying to attain more peace but it was more just overcoming the fear of his symptoms. I personally am not afraid of my symptoms and I do everything I want. I have noticed an automatic feeling of fear that comes on when I challenge it and I have a strong feeling that this is what is keeping me from attaining 100% cure. It seems that everyone trys to change this feeling to a feeling of being strong etc, by saying your not going to win etc. You said that when you stopped fearing (i assume it was that automatic reaction feeling)you got better in a few weeks after years of pain. If you even read Fred Amir's book, he seems very intense throughout the book even after he has conquered his pain yet he has been symptom free for years. Please let me know if you relate in what I am saying and anyone's comments in regards to this is welcome. Also any insight on the best way to overcome the automatic feeling of fear would be helpful |
| balto |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 08:29:36
Hi Ace1,
could it be that your life style produce symptoms as fast as you can get rid of them? Have you ever thought about changing your life style or do something to reduce everyday stress?
I'm not only learn how to treat my symptoms, I also learn how to prevent them from coming. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 11:28:27
Dear Hillbilly,
Just wanted to know what you did when you got a GI equivlant of pain i.e diarrhea. How did you challenge yourself or decondition yourself to that? |
| balto |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 19:49:24
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Dear Balto. Mother Teresa did have ailments- heart disease and anxiety with bad dreams. Look up her medical conditions on wikipedia. She was very old when she died and we know we cant prevent death, and everyone will die of something, so its hard to know what to make of it. Just something for us to ponder in the grand tms scheme.
Too bad. She deserved to have great health. She is one of my most respected person of all time. She is a Buddha, a saint. |
| catmac |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 14:26:15
I went surfing twice today and didnt really notice pain at all until i got back home and it intensified. It has always baffled me that along as i wasn't focused on my pain it would be less intense. I have to work on trying to get to that state permanently now and i'll be happy.
[/quote]
Hi Aussie, weird you should say the above. I'm now on my third week of the programme and have noticed I can now get through work with the minimal of pain (and sometimes i dont notice it at all) but the minute I get home the pain kicks in big time. Does anyone else know if this is just part of the process to recovery? Does it mean we are heading in the right direction? |
| lynnl |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 13:22:50
Mother Teresa was probably facing and dealing with all of the trials and tribulations encountered in her daily life.
It isn't the known and open issues in life that gnaw on you. inside. It's those that are hidden or buried deep inside.
Lynn |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 07:01:21
Dear Balto. Mother Teresa did have ailments- heart disease and anxiety with bad dreams. Look up her medical conditions on wikipedia. She was very old when she died and we know we cant prevent death, and everyone will die of something, so its hard to know what to make of it. Just something for us to ponder in the grand tms scheme. |
| balto |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 19:38:49
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Balto I'm kind of doing research to see what happens when someone is fully cured of tms. I work with cancer and almost everyone I have seen has tms prior to their diagnosis. I also believe their disease takes off once they know they have cancer. I do think hair loss is also related and I think it kind of is like when we see other family members with something we tend to get it bc we believe we will! I do agree with all your posts on being at peace which I believe is the ultimate cure. However how to achieve that is the question especially if your working a usually high tension job and have multiple small kids and if you have been so used to reacting out of peace in your normal day. I still have some mild tms symptoms occasionally but it keeps getting better and better. it shifts from back to gi and sometimes neck and headache. I found that deconditioning each specific situation by affirmations have been extremely effective. I remember you mentioning that before and that was helpful, thanks. Challenging, even though you may not be afraid of what the symptoms can do puts you somewhat out of peace, which is in a way why i wasnt sure if challenging was the right thing or if going into peace first, then doing whatever activity was more right maybe you can clarify that. What I have concluded is that you have to try to do whatever it is that might hurt and decondition yourself by speaking affirmations and calming yourself down while doing it. Thanks for all your input
You said: "Working in a high tension job" reminded me of Mother Teresa. I don't know of anyone who's job is more tensed than her job. She worked her whole life with the poorest of the poor. The sickest of the sick. And often with very little financial, emotional, and physical support. She gave homes for the dying, refuges for the care and teaching of orphans and abandoned children, treatment centers and hospitals for those suffering from leprosy, centers and refuges for alcoholics, the aged and street people—the list is endless.
She worked in a very demanding job, physically and mentally. Worked in a very depressing environment and yet she never have tms/anxiety.
I always wonder what protected people like her from getting all these tms/anxiety diseases? Is it her devotion to her God? Is it because she enjoyed what she did, a higher purpose?
What can we learn from her? from people like her? I'm sure her unconscious mind work the same like ours. Then what keep it from triggering all these pain symptoms from her and not us?
All I can think of is: she forgot herself. She live for others. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 10:18:15
Hi in regards to the hair loss I think stress can affect different people in different ways like one person who wears glasses the other has back pain etc. it may be that the stress energy needs to discharge in one way or another depending on what you think about the most |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 09:43:16
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Balto I'm kind of doing research to see what happens when someone is fully cured of tms.
Ace1, I assume you're familiar with the works of Dr. Bernie Siegel with cancer, if not he's very complementary to TMS thinking.
Here's a link to him:
http://berniesiegelmd.com/
Regarding being "fully cured of TMS", I don't think this is possible since it's part of the human condition. We may understand TMS knowledge and use it to overcome symptoms as they arise but as long as we are on the planet and interact with it and others, it will pop-up from time to time disguised in various unpredictable forms. We can learn to minimize TMS stress by learning to deal with it or retreating to environments that are less stressful like a monestary, an ashram or solitude in the wilderness, but TMS creating situations will likely present themselves and what we can do is learn to recognize them as such and roll with the punches. |
|
|
