| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| centering |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 02:06:31
Hello everyone,
I would like to know if anyone can please give me there experience or suggestions on this topic.
I have had low back pain which has been getting worse for the last 2 years. I have working Sarno but have been having some frustration.
Since I have not been to moble in my waist are for so long (trying to avoid an outage. TMS). My lower back is frozen and I am physically very week. When I go to physical theropy the sessions have been difficult. It has been making the pain worse and throwing me into brief outages which physicaly I have to start all over again. I am getting dicouraged. Has anyone ever gotten themselves out of this weakened state and how. I don't think the weakness is from TMS.(why I did not move in the first place is TMS). The lack of any physical activity I think has cought up. Again, I am repeating myself. Has anyone come out the other end and how.
Thanks 
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/19/2005 : 08:44:08
Dear Dizzy Dave,
I was not refering to you and I didn't name any one in particular. Sorry you felt guilty. Introspection is good to do and I do it a lot myself, probably too much. The board has on ocasson had some mischief makers and I put out a general post because it was bugging me. Since this topic creates so much deep emotional hostility, I will not bring it up again and will try to make nice nice from now on in.
My reccommendations to anyone new here is to see a TMS doctor to determine if it is TMS.
If it's determined you have TMS, read Dr. Sarno's books word for word repeatedly, view the videos, listen to the audios.
Read the chronicled posts at this site.
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| Dave |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 12:25:55
It is dangerous to read emotion into text messages. There is a difference between strongly worded posts and personal attacks. If you are offended or insulted by any message on this forum, take the time to feel what you are feeling. Examine your own sensitivity in the context of TMS. Consider that what you are feeling might actually be a smokescreen for deeper feelings of insecurity.
JohnD is right. Perhaps some of you take this forum too seriously. |
| dizzy dave |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 12:09:55
Tom,
I have to tell you man, I was taken back at your statements towards centering. I am a "newbie" here and actually wondered, at the time, if you could have been refering to me. I don't always have time to respond to people's questions and I suppose my guilt kinda took over.
It is true that centering's initial post and subsequent posts were a bit confusing, but the overall message was pretty clear. I have read many of your posts and emmediately saw an itelligent and strong voice for those who know less about TMS. However, I still found your response peculiar. For what it's worth, I found myself wondering about it off and on for a few days. I didn't understand how you were able to make your judgement in the first place. I figured that there is some history between you that I am simply not aware of and began to think less of it. Then, I found this thread and now I am thinking about it again. What made you so sure to justify your attack?
Dave
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| JohnD |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 20:16:00
don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive :-) |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 15:31:24
Refrain from personal attacks on this message board. They will be deleted. Stay on topic, please. |
| centering |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 14:26:24
Tom,
First off, I went to some other posts of yours to see if your critical style was just what you do. And I found that post I quoted you from. I never thought it was written towards me. But It showed beautifully a part of your personality clearly.
Yes, I feel insulted and it is my problem, and anyone else that comes across you, when your in an impatient mood. That is sad.
I wonder if you have conquered TMS. And if you have, do you come to this forum to help others. Or in some small way do you get satisfaction getting your frustrations out on people. You see I feel if you are a Silver Back of the forum than you have a responsibility to curb your weaaknesses. Especially if you are dealing with peoples confusions and fears. Even when you give them lots of advice and they don't seem to get it, you don't answer them anymore. You don't let them have your anger instead. I see you have abused your place in this forum. And that is a loss for everyone.
"I'm the one who has the info and you are the one who wants it. You get what you payed for."
Tom, what do I have to do to pay for it? Put up with your frustration and then your insults? Is that what we have to put up with to get your advice?
Also, your comment "Interestingly, you have not answered any of my questions which proves my point."
Because I did not answer your questions does NOT prove your point at all . Could it even cross your mind that I did not feel comfortable giving you info about me. It's like.... Here, I will kick you and insult you. Now open up your feelings and fears to me. I'm sorry I don't play that game. You might be used to being unkind to people, then expecting them to come back to you. I won't play into that with you. I don't kiss the hand that trys to hurt me.
Funny, you think I want to just flame instead of answering your questions. I think by answering my post the way you did, is that YOU wanted to flame. And you did. I am not flaming, I am telling you how I feel about your WORDS. Your actions can affect others.
Your quote.... "Your enemy who tells you the truth, is a better friend than, your friend who lies to you."
I am putting this quote back into your court. Can you handle the truth, were you played into this? Can you admit you have hurt another? If you can not and have to much self-righteousness to see were you had a part to play in this. Than I can not give you my respect on answering my TMS questions.
I believe in honesty and I believe in self growth. I think you should print all these posts and take it to your TMS theropist. And maybe they can give you some insight on were you did and did not play a part in this. And you will get alot more insight into yourself.
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| Kajsa |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 09:20:25
I think we should be friendly here on the board.
But actually - Tennis Tom is one of the most friendly /polite persons
I can think of.
If you have been on the board for a long time, it is quite natural that you have a litte more "outspoken attitude".
We have had some people here on the board who just complained, over and over again, about the symptoms and never took action.
They got a lot of advices (and time) from the old members but never took the advices at heart/seriously.
But if you are serious and really wants to work with your TMS this board is a friendly and ever so valuable.
Kajsa |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 08:01:24
Thank you DiverLarry, your comments are greatly appreciated.
tt |
| diverlarry |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 06:00:37
I remembered writing my first post a few months ago. It was on stretching and excercises. I was in pain and feeling very bad.
I think it was Austingary(i don't remember) that said something like
"Don't you understand the TMS theory STOP STRETCHING !!"
His response was direct and to the point. People come here to get info from the experienced people how have had success. Im sure there are some people here who probably would not invite Tom over for a drink and good conservation. People will probably not like everyone here and you don't need to.
The point is he has good information. Use it. If you don't like his style of writng,ignore the parts you don't like and use the good information. He writes good stuff. I will take this over TMS pain everyday of the week. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 21:19:21
No way Jose'. Now this is getting amusing. Just who are you? Is this the infamous MatR, PeacefulWarrior, SarnoSoldier? If it is how did your surgery go?
I have nothing to apologzise for. Do your homework like I do and read my posts--all of them! You'll see my posts are very positive. Of course I ocasionaly like to have a little fun when it is obvious that someone wants to play. And I do ask some questions when someone's posts are full of contradictions. If someone truly wants to get well they help their cause by answering legitimate questions. If they're joking the board, their name disappears and they come back with a new one.
It's a free country and I can say what I want, you may want to check your constitution for that. Dave is the only censor here. |
| Mat |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 20:44:27
Tom,just because you have been on this forum for a long time ,it doen't give you the right to be critical of everybody.I think you are very impatient with people.I think you ought to apologize. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 16:23:23
Southern Grace,
No I'm not in a bad mood, just call them the way I see them.
Be passive or be agressive, just don't be both at the same time, or it'll give you TMS. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 15:55:29
Ah well, I guess every good Shakesperian tragedy needs some comic relief.  |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 15:46:34
Cent,
I never mentioned you or anyone by name but if the shoe fits wear it. If you feel insulted then that's your problem. Your message was garbled--read it and see what you think. You are the one who came looking for help and I posted you several times trying to help. I'm the one who has the info and you are the one who wants it. You get what you pay for. Interestingly, you have not answered any of my questions which proves my point. You want to flame instead.
If you truly wanted to get better you would co-operate and offer information in a forthright manner. I stand by what I have said. If my posts offend you, don't read them.
Your enemy who tells you the truth, is a better friend than, your friend who lies to you.
p.s. Cent, now that you're all pissed off, does your pain feel any better, can you answer that one question for me? |
| centering |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 01:37:19
Thank you for your post and your patience LJJ, Dave, Mobius. |
| centering |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 01:31:29
I would like to comment back to what Tennis Tom's posting to my question. I think I realy need to get something off my conscious mind, so I don't build up any anger. Some of your comments I find very rude. I think your recent postings show a real anger and judgement towards others that come to the site. To let everyone know I am pissed and I am not going to be passive aggressive with my comments. I am sorry If I affend anyone but I am realy hurt.
"Something that's been bugging me"
Shows your anger towards others.
Tom you have noticed......
"That some posters seem disingenuous and a waste of time. The posts just ring hollow to my TMS ear. They exhibit a pattern of ignorance and criticism."
I guess you just don't have patience for someone like me.
"They seem sincere at first , asking for help, get alot of heartfelt,thoughtfull replies then are never heard form again."
Maybe, if you insulted them like you did me. They would not come back to the site or reply to your post.
"Does anyone have any ideas on how to vet newbies before wasting energy on someone who is playing games on the board?"
First off, I was not trying to wate anyones energy or play games! I was in a confused place and am reaching out for some help. I am gratefull I have found a place that gives me strength and hope by reading the posts. Then I posted a question, and then felt side swiped by you. You insulted me by saying My Posting "was garbled" and from my post "you sound very medicated--are you taking alot of medication?" Why did you reply to my post so hostiley? If you want to go on an emotional level with me.
"I don't like to appear harsh but I don't want to get board burn-out either."
You ARE HARSH. You don't appear to be. And if you don't want board burn out. Don't reply to someone's post if you are going to be comeing from a defensive judgmental place, when you don't know for sure if the person you are answering is truly in need. Its just wrong of you. Keep your judgmental needing of me or anyone else to meet your standards. You know this stuff is hard.
"Does anyone also have any thoughts on the psychological motivations of anyone playing games with people who are sincerely looking for answers to difficult questions regarding chronic pain both physical and emotional?"
One, that sounds a little parinoid on your part. Or maybe you have been hurt or let down when you feel people are not hearing you.
The real funny thing with the last part of your statement. Is that, that is exactly were I was coming from. "I was sincerely looking for answers to difficult questions regarding chronic pain both physical and emotional"
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| Mobius |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 16:02:46
Dr Schecter probably means well by sending you to the PT as your muscularity has evidently atrophied from enforced bedrest for the past 2 years and needs to be developed before you can return to normal physical activity. I am fairly sure too that Dr. Schecter understands that Dr. Sarno stopped sending his patients to a PT quite some time ago because of the focul on the physical. I agree with Dave on this one and feel that there may be better ways to regain your normal muscle function. As you do the psychological work and your pain begins to diminish you can just slowly begin to use your muscles to do some of the more normal things like just walk around and get into and out of chairs. It will be a slow process but as the pain diminishes even further then you will find that you will be able to do more and more and then, once you have completely resolved the pain, you will be in a position to resume all physical activities. This is not a suggestion but just my own thoughts should I be presented with your circumstances and have to respond to them. I would in no way wish to be in opposition to what a TMS doctor would prescribe even though I would not agree with it in this case. Of course I usually go my own way anyway. Whenever I see my doctor I confront him on even terms and demand explanations for anything he suggests and after carefully evaluating his input I then decide what I feel is best for me. You might decide to re-read what Dr Sarno says in his book about PT referals and why he no longer recommends them for his patients. |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 09:31:23
If Dr. Schecter referred you to PT I would assume there was significant atrophy.
It is important not to connect the PT to the pain. The PT is not designed to improve the pain, but to rebuild your muscles. The problem with PT is that it forces you to focus on the physical, which is contradictory to TMS treatment. For this reason it may not be possible to get significant pain relief until you complete the course of PT. |
| n/a |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 18:18:23
Hi Centering,
I had atrophied leg muscles due to lack of movement from TMS in my knees and ankles a year ago. I had seen several physical therapists and I just had more pain and set-backs from seeing them. I found this forum and was told by several members to stop seeing doctors and physical therapists and also not to stretch the painful muscles that were in spasm from TMS. I had thought I was supposed to be stretching all the time and doing the physical therapy to rebuild but in quitting it I actually had less pain and could focus on activities I wanted to do. (A year ago I had to use a cane to walk and some days could barely make it from my bed to the bathroom. My legs had a hard time doing anything due to the atrophied muscles.)
I decided to focus on doing activities I wanted to do, namely walking in the fresh air and going shopping. It took awhile but I gradually was able to walk more and more and then started driving to the stores. I figured I spent at least a hundred dollars a week on doctors and physical therapists so I allowed myself to spend that on anything I wanted at the stores. I was focused more on shopping than on the pain and shakiness in my legs. I got stronger and then decided to start playing around in the water in my swimming pool--not doing "pool exercises" but just having fun moving around like I did when I was a kid.
Now it's a year later and I can walk at a fairly quick pace for 35-40 minutes up and down the small hills in my neighborhood. I can't wait to dust off my hiking boots and try that next.
I think for me not doing any specific exercises was really important in rebuilding my body. Especially not doing "reps" where you count how many times you go back and forth with a movement. I'm somewhat obsessive and would get into the counting and lose touch with the fun of the movement. I don't believe any physical therapist out there knows what is exactly what my body needs to do. I've seen enough of them (10 total) to know what movements might be helpful for what muscle groups (like walking up hills) but if I don't want to do it or it doesn't feel right then forget it.
In addition, I am doing art therapy to help get in touch and release feelings I'm not even aware of. Also I journal almost every night by writing a letter to God and telling Him my feelings and thoughts about what went on that day or what I'm afraid of. I read mystery fiction books before bed to disengage my mind and help me to sleep. The books usually have wonderful dogs as central characters in them. I totally love dogs and it gets my mind off myself and my physical body. Also when I go on a walk, I tell myself that I am taking my body on a walk and not the other way around.
Hope some of this is helpful to you Centering, and I really believe you can rebuild without having to follow what someone else tells you to do.
Take care,
LJJ |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 18:07:22
Cent,
I am finding your posts very confusing. Your first one was very garbled. It would have helped tremendously to have known that you had seen Dr. Schechter. If he couldn't answer your TMS questions, I seriously doubt anyone here can. TMS is not everyone's cup of tea. You need to have a strong belief in the mindbody theory as espoused by Dr. Sarno.
When was the last time you saw Schechter? Did you attend the lectures? What did he tell you? From your first post you sound very medicated--are you taking a lot of medication?
I reccommend you see Schechter again. You don't sound like you understand the basics of TMS. I advise you read the archives because most everyone here has improvement in returning to physical activity. You don't give enough info in your post for me to adivse you on how to return to activity. If you can walk, walk. If you can swim, swim. It's as simple as that. If you want help here you will need to give a lot more info about your emotional life. TMS is about emotions. Stop thinking about the physical. Give me some meat about your personal life. That's where your TMS pain is coming from. Dig deep.
Good luck |
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