| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Michele |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 08:29:09
I apparently still have a lingering doubt somewhere, which is beginning to really tick me off. I thought maybe I've been trying too hard. But how do you stop obsessing about the pain, especially when it's constant from the first step of the day, to the last turn of the body to shut off the light at night. Give me some pointers, please!  |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 14:31:28
Rudy that's great! You're making great TMS progress. Stay patient, TMS thinking is a path for a lifetime.
One suggestion to help you with the fear of sitting while driving is to listen to TMS tapes or CD's in the car. There are links on the home page to purchasing them. If you can sit in a theatre for 2 1/2 hours you can sit in a car. I went to the movies last night, the Peter Pan one, no pain what-so-ever, but I've probably been at this a lot longer than you have. I did have pain walking from the parking lot due to the three hours of vigorous tennis I played earlier and a tough week of pressures at the office and the home-front. I am leaving tomorrow for LA to see Dr. Schechter and Donald Dubin and am looking forward to the long drive. I love driving and find it TMS'ly therapeutic.
Cheers,
tt
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| lobstershack |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 13:17:53
Wow, how strange. Around mid-October when I had my appointment with one of my therapist's colleagues (the supra-intuitive, although I prefer just "gifted") she mentioned explicitly the phrase "act as if"--I even wrote it down. It was not until, I'd say a few days ago, till I got the full jist of what she was saying. In other words, I too, was thinking in the "once my pain is gone I will do..." mindset. And as a result--not just from this, but I believe a confluence of factors--I have been procrastinating to the extreme.
Not because CONSCIOUSLY I thought my symptoms would impede in whatever I had to do--despite my pain over the years I have remained uber-active--but the more I thought about all the things I was putting off, even the little things, I realized that if I am going to act as if I must take the plunge and just do them.
So I have been doing just that. Chewing gum vigorously--despite the "TMJ"--smoking pot three (!) days in a row--(I don't condone nor do I advocate drug use--basically pushing myself to do all the things that I just "don't feel like doing;" and I must say it has been working wonderfully so far.
I believe this mindset is crucial to recovery and strongly advocate it to all.
Seth |
| Rudy |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 12:05:19
Great posts all.
I have made some real progress since finding Sarno last October. I think you need to push yourselves continually, but a little at a time and break down the barriers of fear. I have chronic back and foot pain. Sitting is painful on my back and walking and standing on my feet.
Since October I have stopped wearing my expensive orthotics in shoes ( I have several pairs, some £300 each...what a con)and find I even now go barefoot around the house. The pain comes on eventually but a lot slower than it did before. I can now walk further in normal shoes than I could with my orthotics. More importantly I'm not longer afraid to walk for a couple of hours, knowing than the pain will be minimal and I will deal with it. Basically, other than walking around theme parks all day with my kids (which i wouldn't yet attempt)I can do most normal things on my feet. Pre-Sarno I could never undertsnad why I couldn't walk for more than 30 mins without pain but could decorate for 2hours and experience little discomfort. A perfect example of how the mind is concentrating elsewhere and forgetting temproraily, at least, the pain.
My back is still a pain (forgive the pun) but I have thrown away the car cushion and lumbar support, sit in soft chairs at home and no longer worry about what chairs I can sit in if I go out socially. Again breaking down the fear. On Saturday for the 1st time in 3 years I went to the cinema. Why ? Because I thought I'd try it and prove some more progress to myself. An hour before my back stared aching ( it never totally relents at all) and pre-Sarno I would have backed out
and not gone. Not now, I just went and sat for 2.5 hours and had a great time. Some pain yes, but nothing I couldn't handle. Again, I have overcome some more fear and would certainly go again.
My really big hurdle is driving my car. i refuse to go back to the seat cushions I threw off after finding Sarno, and at the moment don't have to drive far, so it's not a huge issue. However, my job will change shortly which will involve more driving. The only way I can now think to overcome this fear is to gradually build up the driving time and try to push myself through the pain. As described above, I have made progress and would recommend people try similar things. If the pain becomes too much, stop and go back to the activity the week after. Just be patient.If anyone else has some ideas to help me and others I'd appreciate it.
Even now on some days I really obsess about the pain I have, but try to think positively about the progress I have made.
Good luck to you all. I have seen 15 doctors etc about my feet and 15 about my back,(inc a surgery, I now know I didn't need) only Sarno has helped me to make some real progress.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 16:02:42
Good post Menvert, Amen. |
| menvert |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 14:57:07
Actually that makes me think of something someone said on this forum one time.
A major aspect of TMS recovery and the Sarno Way, is all about not waiting to be 'cured' before doing the things YOU want to do.(in many ways our pain is an exceuse for not living. so dont let it control you, take action now dont wait for ever for a complete cure)
Most of us will not successfully cure if we don't push through our pain/fears/emotions on our way to cure. In many ways the Sarno cure is about 'well stuff you pain/brain I'm going to do it anyway' and the more I do it the more I repudiate your structural pain.
I am finding it so amazing lately, because I have gotten over the hill with this TMS. No longer is my initial reaction to anything 'no I can't I'm injured' nowadays it is 'sure why not' sure i may experience some symptoms, but I recognise that they are due to triggers but mostly due to the emotional factors involved in the event/last day or so, so I think about them instead. & hey presto the pain rapidly disappears ... or sometimes it lingers but I take little/no physical notice of it. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 09:19:47
GREAT POSTS ONE AND ALL! This is the heart of the TMS work--trasnforming one's psychological reaction to pain. The TMS "cure" is not like swallowing a pill or getting an injection. It is opening the mind up to a new philosophy.
The "miracle cure" that some come to the board for does not exist. It is more like a "home-study" course. You have to have some discipline, do the homework and it may take a semester or two to see results depending upon each individual's life circumstances. It took a lifetime for our minds to lay the psychological conditioning patterns that break-out in TMS psychogenic pain, it will take some time to change those patterns and develop new ones.
If there is a "miracle cure" it is like the soldier on the battlefield, Sarno refers to, who takes a bullet and is on his way home, feeling great relief. The war is over for him but the rehab is just beginning. When I first stumbled upon Sarno's little tome, I had that "ah-ha" moment, but years later, I am still interested in exploring the theory and my daily interactions with it.
We live in an age of immediate gratification. Late night TV is full of info-mercials for the poor souls lying awake in pain from physical, emotional and finnacial problems. They promise immediate relief that they don't deliever accept short-term placebo--quack, quack. |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 07:50:05
You have a big point here Menvert.
The thing that works for me (sometimes and more and more often these days) is like living AS IF.
As if I am totally ok.
Then after a while the body adjust itself to
that message. The message have to be firm and strong.
Sometimes it takes time for the body to follow.
It is the opposite to how I normally lived before.
When you feel sick -have pain and are fatigued -you plan for the things that you are going to do
AFTER recovering.
You obsess about what a wonderful paradise A PAIN FREE and ENERGETIC life would be.
You could do anything but today you can do nothing.
It is a very negative spiral.
Then you suddenly “have to do something”, you have to carry ten bags for a sick friend, or you have to drive somebody to
the airport (or you “have to” go to San Diego) and suddenly you do a lot of things that you usually
do not do.
And it works just fine! Not all the time perhaps but a lot of times.
When my friend asked me about San Diego I couldn´t feel any joy at all! I just felt pressure.
Because travelling was connected with a lot of fatigue - jetlag is the LAST THING you want when
you have devastating fatigue.
But the 9 hour jetlag was NADA for me compared with some days in my past when I slept for ten hours
every night, rested and rested and yet had absolutely zero energy.
The only thing that I belived could cure me was more resting and qigong and “peaceful mind” etc.
But crucial for me is “taking action” and live “as if”.
Kajsa
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| Kajsa |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 07:47:34
quote:
Originally posted by menvert
Like several posters said....
distraction is the key.
when obsession and focusing on pain too much was a significant part of my TMS experience. I used to do anything I could to find a highly engrossing activity.
Which for me means watching an intense movie, playing computer games, or visiting friends... shopping maybe? something, you can do that interests you a lot, and at some point, you are hoping you will 'forget' your pain, because you're having too much fun.
Go on holiday. Even if you just perform and activity as a holiday from thinking about TMS...
Some good examples have been. Being woken up by our friend 'my car boke down, could you drive my son to school' and so without thinking . I immediately jumped in my car drove over and ran the errend....
It took me about four hours since I woke up to have my first thought about where I am feeling pain(yes, painfree for several hours after waking!!)... and each time that happens, it helps strengthen the realisation that the mind causes the pain... because the pain is not there and till I think about it.
And basically all it takes is practice(and yes, I understand that is easier said than done)... I consider it a learned skill . initially, you may only get a very slight insight into the fact that you can control your thoughts and pain, but I am now at the point where I basically don't get obsessed or overly focused on pain anymore. It has taken me over 18 months but it's the most 18 months of improvement I have ever had.
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| menvert |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 04:46:04
Like several posters said....
distraction is the key.
when obsession and focusing on pain too much was a significant part of my TMS experience. I used to do anything I could to find a highly engrossing activity.
Which for me means watching an intense movie, playing computer games, or visiting friends... shopping maybe? something, you can do that interests you a lot, and at some point, you are hoping you will 'forget' your pain, because you're having too much fun.
Go on holiday. Even if you just perform and activity as a holiday from thinking about TMS...
Some good examples have been. Being woken up by our friend 'my car boke down, could you drive my son to school' and so without thinking . I immediately jumped in my car drove over and ran the errend....
It took me about four hours since I woke up to have my first thought about where I am feeling pain(yes, painfree for several hours after waking!!)... and each time that happens, it helps strengthen the realisation that the mind causes the pain... because the pain is not there and till I think about it.
And basically all it takes is practice(and yes, I understand that is easier said than done)... I consider it a learned skill . initially, you may only get a very slight insight into the fact that you can control your thoughts and pain, but I am now at the point where I basically don't get obsessed or overly focused on pain anymore. It has taken me over 18 months but it's the most 18 months of improvement I have ever had. |
| Albert |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 11:55:46
I think I should clarify:
At times I have the experience where even if I feel a symptom I don't mind, because as far as I'm concerned it is just TMS. Symptoms seem to lose their validity when I view them this way. I believe it is important to understand that they can't do anything to cause you physical harm.
On the other hand, I do worry about getting completely well. I guess this is just a matter of my mind having contradictory conditioning.
quote:
Originally posted by Albert
Unfortunately, I can't say that I have stopped thinking about my progress. I'll let you know when I get there, unless you get there first.
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
Albert,
Can you comment a bit on exactly how you were able to stop focusing on your progress as I have a hard time with this sometimes. Thanks!
Seth
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| Albert |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 11:26:04
Unfortunately, I can't say that I have stopped thinking about my progress. I'll let you know when I get there, unless you get there first.
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
Albert,
Can you comment a bit on exactly how you were able to stop focusing on your progress as I have a hard time with this sometimes. Thanks!
Seth
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| mala |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 19:14:52
Michelle,
First stop obsessing about obsessing about the pain. You obviously have got pain and it is just gonna make things worse if you are constantly worried that you are worrying over the pain. If you have pain then well you have pain. Sometimes acknowledging something completely can help just as much as ignoring it can. For many people learning to ignore the pain doesn't happen overnight. I remember when I first started, I was like you in pain from morning till night. The thing I did was never to make myself feel guilty about the pain. If it hurt, I would moan and groan and swear. I just told people around me to ignore me. It wasn't attention seeking it was just me reacting to me being in pain a basic instinctive way I guess.
For me the way it works is like this. I am fiercely independent and have way too much confidence in myself. I think I am that way coz I grew up away from my parents with my grandfather who was a great person. He always told me that there wasn't anything I could'nt do. Then growing up I was very lucky to have good friends and now a wonderful husband.
But I am also very pigheaded and get my way 99% of the time. So the only way that I can deal with my tms (inner child) is be as pigheaded as possible and fight it constantly. Since I win most of my battles I am going to win this one too. When I first started having pain I was in bed most of the time and my muscles were in bad shape. Any activity even walking for 5 mins was awful so I'd give up. Then one day I decided well I'm gonna hurt anyway so I might as well be active and hurt. Slowly and believe me it has taken a long time I could do more and more .
I am in Australia now and sitting in a car for two to four hours a day doing all kinds of things. I am not saying I'm totally pain free but I persevere and like Albert I ignore the pain. It tries to come back and bite me from time to time to get my attention but I tell it to p.... off.
Find activities where you can focus on your attention elsewhere even if it is for 5 mins and slowly increase that time till you have more pain free moments and less pain. Oh and a couple of glasses of wine to unwind and relax also helps.
Take care
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 18:16:03
Michele,
You are afraid of something but what. That's what makes this TMS so difficult. It feels like looking for something in the dark.
Have you seen any modulation between emotions and the pain. It took me 1 1/2 years before I ever was able to modulate my symptoms with a released emotion. This is not easy at all. Still to this day I have symptoms 24/7 despite having a much clearer idea of what i'm afraid of. You may want to look closer at earlier times in your life. What happened at that time that may be causing your chronic symptoms now. Look closely at your relationship with your primary care givers. If there are holes in your factual knowledge try and talk to others to fill in the missing pieces. The child inside of you holds that answer. It's our job as adults to advocate and support the child inside so that they open up to us and reveal their knowledge.
I don't know if that helps. Are you seeing a therapist now? Forgive me if you have already posted about it as i've not been active on the site for that long. |
| lobstershack |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 17:57:52
Albert,
Can you comment a bit on exactly how you were able to stop focusing on your progress as I have a hard time with this sometimes. Thanks!
Seth |
| Albert |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 17:43:48
I might be off the mark here, but perhaps this might help.
Even though I still have symptoms, the place that bugged me first, most and worst (lower back, a couple of inches above my tail bone) hasn't bugged me for about two weeks (except for one short twinge). I did several things.
1. I thought about the history of the pain and realized that a physical injury didn't occur.
2. I analyzed it closely and determined that there couldn't be something physically wrong there.
3. When it hurt I felt the pain as much as I could and asked myself what's so bad about this? It didn't seem too bad when I really checked it out. I didn't do this too much though since this is contrary to TMS theory.
4. If I sat in a position that seemed to agitate it, I told my mind that this is TMS, so I'm not changing my position and I know that it will go away sooner or later. It always would. Or in other words, I had a defiant attitude towards it. It didn't always have a come and go manner of manifestation. There was a time when it would hang around quite a bit and in a really annoying way. This was back when I believed that it had a physical cause.
I think this is the last thing that happened before it went away. I had a dinner date a couple of weeks ago and the spot started to bug me more than it had been a few hours before the date. Partly because restaurant chairs have a history of bugging my back. I told it, "I don't care how much you bug me, I'm still going on the date." As I had dinner that night, even though my lower back felt a little numb, the problem spot didn't bother me. My attitude was that this is just TMS. For the whole night it seemed as if I had inconsequential numbness. I've noticed that if I view the symptoms I have as TMS, they don't seem like an annoyance. They seem like an annoyance when I use them to measure my progress.
I hope I'm not paying too much attention to it now. It might try to be funny and come back. That's okay. It will just go away.
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| Mobius |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 16:12:27
Pain can be very difficult to ignore and requires one to be rather forceful with it. Do you find times during the day when you are deeply involved with a task or project that the pain is gone? The brain has a really difficult time focusing well on more than one thing at a time. Awareness is a useful tool in dealing with TMS pain. Just try to relax and get deeply involved in whatever you are doing at the moment. You might try this: Throughout the day keep repeating to yourself "I just do one thing at a time, I do it very well, and then I move on". If you can do this well then it will be difficult for the pain to seep in in any great strength. Just some thoughts. Take care. Mobius |
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