| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| djhouseblend |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 15:24:47
Chronic Fatigue, Fibromylgia, Gilberts Syndrome and many other similar syndromes share a common root: A bad or traumatic childhood. I know, there are many who had a fabulous upbringing- but the majority who suffer in one form or another have had something other than "good".
I had an alcoholic mother (Father left @ 2 months old and sisters/brother left by the time I was 2) who would turn from Dr. Jeckle to Mr. Hyde after one beer. Then the mental abuse would begin- name calling- you'll never amount to anything- to being woken up with a belt at 3am to be put in front of the TV because I wanted to watch a tv show past my bedtime.
In and out of foster homes since I was 4, never knew my brother or sisters or my father growing up.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Suess~ |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Joy_I_Am |
Posted - 02/20/2012 : 03:06:05
Thanks for that, MatthewNJ, and for the book recommendation!
Joy
 |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 02/18/2012 : 16:27:24
Joy,
you can Reach Dr. Sarno @
Dr. John Sarno
Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicineý
400 East 34th Street
New York, NY 10016-4901
USA
If you like, the TMSwiki.org is currently in the middle of a "thank you" project for Dr. Sarno. You are welcome to get involved.
But, to stay on topic, I have been succesful at solving all my severe TMS (Sciatica, Gastric ulcers, Gastritis). I am still working on the little stuff. "It takes approximately One lifetime". And there is NO doubt, for me (and I believe for most) that MOST of it comes from my childhood. And I had one of those childhoods most people would look at and term "good". Trauma is in the eyes of the child who percieves it (see Dr. Peter A. Levine's work "Waking the tiger, Healing Trauma").
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/18/2012 : 10:25:32
quote:
I don't think it's helpful to compare levels of suffering, there will always be someone who has it better/worse than you, we all have to deal with what we've got. First world problems? Well, they're relevant if we live in the first world.
Hi Joy,
My thought is different. I think they are very relevant and helpful to compare and to learn as much as we can about the differences between "there" and "here". Researchers do it all the time.
Why do the Eskimo have a much much lower rate of heart disease than many other populations? They eat mostly foods from the sea and rarely consume any fruits or vegetables. Researchers think it is because of the high level of Omega-3 in their diets.
Why do people in Okinawa, Japan and Seven Days Advantists in Loma Linda have more members lived to be 100 than compare to the general public? What ddi they do different? What is the differences in their life styles, their diets, their genes, their beliefs,... that made them be more healthy longer into their old age and lived much longer than the general public? Don't you think it is important to know?
I know there are a few Physicians on this forum who suffered from tms/anxiety. As a doctor they have achieved many goals other people can only dream of. Success, prestige, financial security, ... Why do they have tms/anxiety while a guys working hard his whole life on the field somewhere in Cambodia, who was abused, tortured when he was young, who have witnessed his whole family murdered in front of him, who has 4 kids and a sick wife to take care of... never have tms/anxiety? Don't we want to know what "protective mechanism" this poor man has against tms/anxiety while the doctor is miserable with pain that all his years of medical training can't help him?
Therefore, I think it is very important to compare. Even Doctoc Sarno did it. He compared the difference rates in Whiplash syndrome of 2 different populations in one of his book (I think in Divided Mind). |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/18/2012 : 08:14:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wodg
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
The rate of TMS from one country to another may be vary in proportion with the ratio of lawyers in the population.
I'm pretty sure the powers at be aim for the break up of families ie providing welfare, taxing one income families the same as two income families, no fault divorce etc etc
It may make for an interesting study to explore the role of government in creating TMS stress through the creation of ever escalating regulations, fees, fines and taxes. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/18/2012 : 07:53:32
quote:
The rage pool that lives in the unconscious mind gets filled by negative conscious events happening during your entire life. Culture shapes the perception of the events when they happen. If you are in a culture that amplifies your perception in a negative way, those events are more likely to fall into the unconscious rage pool as opposed to being discarded (let go). So its not a difference in how the unconscious mind reacts, its how much stuff is in the rage pool.
Just my 2 cents,
-Stryder
I think your 2 cents are wonderful. I do agree perception does shapes how we feel about an event (or effect the "rage pool" like you've said). So Then we need to find out how different perceptions people of different cultures, income levels, life styles... have that would effect our feelings, our memory, (or our rage pool) and hopefully we can learn to some how change our perception toward an events to our advantage (tms/anxiety prevention).
In one of my old post I told of a story of my 2 neighbors. They both lost their houses to forclosure. One was so distressed he had all kind of tms/anxiety illness and had to be hospitalize. The other was so happy he no longer have to live in fear of being evicted. He was happied with a much small rent expense. He love his new life style of less material things and less expenses. Same event, same tragedy (or blessing), 2 different perceptions, which one should we choose to have?
Two guys lost their job due to the bad economy. One was so upset, angry, and so worry about his future he became depress, lost his appetize, suffer from insomnia and headache. The other guys told me what a blessing. Now he has all the time he want to go back to school for some training, all the time to be with his kids, all the time to spend and look for the right jobs... Same events, 2 perceptions, which one do we want to have?
Two brothers found out after their mom's funeral she left 90% of her estate to charity and leaved them with just 10%. One of the brother was very upset, angry, he said that money that he never worked a day for should be his. He hired experts to prove to the court that his mom was mentally unstable when she wrote the will. He supplied the court with details of the time and expense he had incurred in his 2 trips to visit her to "care" for her. Long story short, he lost the case and received a big bill from the expert. Now he is more angry, upset, and can't sleep. The other brother just said well! it was her money. She gave gave me food, she keep roof over my head, she gave me a wonderful education, I don't need her money. Took his share of the will and went to Hawaii for a wonderful vacation. Same event, 2 perceptions, which one do you think will be good for our well being?
Perception can be hell or heaven.
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| Joy_I_Am |
Posted - 02/18/2012 : 06:03:37
Balto, you make me think that I should really write a letter of heartfelt thanks to dear Dr Sarno before it's too late... I suppose he's reachable through his publishers?
Anyway. My grandmother used to tell me to eat my cabbage because 'little children were starving in Africa'. It didn't resign me to cabbage, and it didn't get the little children in Africa fed... I don't think it's helpful to compare levels of suffering, there will always be someone who has it better/worse than you, we all have to deal with what we've got. First world problems? Well, they're relevant if we live in the first world.
I do think that our developing minds are very strongly and permanently influenced by our early parenting. I think, just as a person malnourished as a child may have a limp in adult life, so a child who is badly nourished mentally will carry long-term effects into how they deal with adult life.
But this is not a Victim's Charter! Instead, getting educated about this allows us to see our enemy more clearly, see the flaws in the way we learnt to deal with life, and so become more effective and combatting them. I agree that wallowing doesn't help; but when stuff is buried in our subconscious, we have to pick the mental scab off and let the emotional pus out! (Eww, sorry!)
Just my thoughts. Joy. |
| Wodg |
Posted - 02/17/2012 : 23:22:19
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
The rate of TMS from one country to another may be vary in proportion with the ratio of lawyers in the population.
I'm pretty sure the powers at be aim for the break up of families ie providing welfare, taxing one income families the same as two income families, no fault divorce etc etc
|
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/17/2012 : 10:34:49
I don't know how to use Dr. Sarno's theory of unconscious mind can cause pain to explain the differences in LBP rates in the above study.
The rage pool that lives in the unconscious mind gets filled by negative conscious events happening during your entire life. Culture shapes the perception of the events when they happen. If you are in a culture that amplifies your perception in a negative way, those events are more likely to fall into the unconscious rage pool as opposed to being discarded (let go). So its not a difference in how the unconscious mind reacts, its how much stuff is in the rage pool.
Just my 2 cents,
-Stryder |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/17/2012 : 06:00:56
The rate of TMS from one country to another may be vary in proportion with the ratio of lawyers in the population. |
| Wodg |
Posted - 02/17/2012 : 05:58:56
I believe we are still wired as cavemen. Living in Western society, isolated, is not what we are made for. Each member of the tribe was important and if one of the members was sick or uphappy everyone would notice.
I could go for days with just seeing people I work with who I have no real connection with, don't need me and likely are bitching about me to get a crappy promotion.
That's another thing, empaths really get screwed in the isolated, anomynous Western society as we no longer live in a tribe. You can screw people over and just move on. You couldn't do this in a tribe. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/17/2012 : 05:32:42
I quoted the following: "Within the categories of low-income and high-income countries, low back pain rates vary twofold or more. In comparisons between these categories of countries, rates on the whole are higher among the general populations of selected high-income countries than among rural low-income populations; specifically, rates are 2-4 times higher among Swedish, German, and Belgium general populations than among Nigerian, southern Chinese, Indonesian, and Filipino farmers. Within low income countries, rates are higher among urban populations than among rural populations and still higher among workers in particular worksites, referred to as "enclosed workshops."
from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9259786
I don't know how to use Dr. Sarno's theory of unconscious mind can cause pain to explain the differences in LBP rates in the above study.
Is it because the unconscious mind only evolve after people moved into the higher income bracket?
Is it because the It, the Ego, the Super ego only evolve into existence after people become wealthier?
Is it because only more money, higher income can trigger the unconscious mind to produce pain?
I only see differences in their life style that could explain the different in LBP rate. City life, higher income, modernization come with isolation, loneliness, stress... -> back pain. |
| balto |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 16:32:52
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by balto
My thinking is: Whatever happened in the your past, stay in the past until you brought it back. They are just memories and memories can not hurt you unless you let it to.
Seems to be a sensitive subject, as personal attacks seem to be implied where I do not see such intent.
Please don't ever think of it as a personal attacks. I have nothing but praise for Dr Sarno. I worship the man. I wish him a long happy life, but if he ever pass away I would put his picture right next to the Buddha if I'm a Buddhist. I would ask the Vatican to make him a Saint if I were a Christian. The man saved my life. I would have been dead long ago if I didn't find Sarno's book.
Doctor Sarno is a man with a very open mind, that's why he saw things that millions other doctors didn't see. And I think we need to keep an open mind too. I don't think Sarno would mind if we disagreed with some of his theories. Mindbody medicine is new in the West. We need to keep an open mind and hope that our knowledge can grow. Freud is one of the greatest medicine man that ever live and yet many many of his theories, his thinkings have been proving wrong today. I know that to many here Sarno's words is God's word. His theories is the Final words. But hey, the church used to say the earth is flat, only angels can flies, the earth is the center of the universe, the universe is only about 6000 years old.
My post above may not be consistence with what Dr Sarno preached but I'm not the only one think that way. I've learned it from many "teachers". Dr Claire Weeke didn't think anything happened long ago in our life can cause the pains we have now. Dr Sarno's treatment method is not the only mindbody medicine that work. I have seen countless people got completely well using Claire Weekes. I have seen many got rid of tms/anxiety doing only meditation. Many others got well with only yogas, taichi, praying...
What I want to say is we need to keep an open mind and stop thinking this person attacking that person when he said something disagreeable to you. We need to open our eyes wide and look around the world. Do you ever question why tms/anxiety are so bad in developing countries and not in poorer countries? Why people in American are more vunerable to tms/anxiety then people in Cambodia? Half of there populations were killed off in the 80's. They were and are living in extreme poverty. They were subject to injustice, starvation, rape, abuse... everyday and why don't they have tms/anxiety? Is it because unconscious mind only developed and exist in the West?
The Holocaust is one of the greatest tragedy that ever happened to humanity. People were exterminated, tortured, starved, experiments were done on them. People witness their loveones being shot, raped, killed in front of them. And why do people in Isreal don't have tms/anxiety as much as people in the West?
Look at those starving people who constantly live in fear in Somalia and North Korea, Look at the life of those who live with out any real freedom in the Middle East. Look at those people who live with extreme poverty and constant danger in India, in the slump of Brazil, in the street of Honduras, in the war torned Irag.... i can go on forever. The question still is why do they don't have tms, anxiety, pdst, fybro, RSI,... Don't those people have unconscious mind. Are they made of lower grade than people in the West? They're not evolve enough? Or is it because people in the West just deteriorate after they live in the West for a long time? What is the reason for the difference?
I don't know and I can only "theriorize": life style, thought process, closeness of society. Unconscious mind is a wonderful theory but to me it doesn't explain the differences here.
I think we need to keep an open mind here. |
| Erata |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 16:15:20
I have to remember an internet forum is multi-cultural digital communication in the form of words on a screen only, with none of the nuances of speech and body language, and therefore open to any and all interpretations. I didn’t interpret any intentional attacks, nor did I intend any, and if that’s how what I wrote came across, my sincere apologies.
I thought the advice given wasn’t appropriate, especially, to this particular thread, which addresses the more extreme manifestations of TMS. These manifestations often elude techniques that seem to work with other forms of TMS (which is why Dr. Sarno recommends therapy to dig for deeper sources of anger, which could suggest childhood & family origins).
In general, I just have a hard time with advice that implies that anyone’s hurt, rage, or whatever reaction, is the wrong way to respond to very personal and unique experiences—everyone is different in how they respond and I don’t think there is a right or wrong way that can be critiqued. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 12:26:18
I agree with both Dave and Balto, but for different reasons.
I agree as Dave said, that past stresses are stored in our memories, and our bodies condition responses to them both mentally and physiologically. That means you can't control your stress symptoms, be they pain, stomach upset, migraine, or some other form of tension. The situation you are in or are thinking about causes the response in the autonomic nervous system. There isn't a single stress symptom that isn't served by this branch of the nervous system. Check for yourself. The most common one talked about here, of course, is muscle tension. This gets mistaken for something physical all the time and is the cause for the health anxiety it breeds, which in turn can cause people to stop participating in life as Balto, I and many others have done. There isn't anything wrong. Your nerves won't break and neither will your back, if you just get up and do the things you need to in order to be a productive person.
But I also agree with Balto's statement that unless we give up the mental habits of victimhood, forgive past transgressions of ourselves and others, and stop playing the old movies about them in our heads, we will accomplish little in the way of improved mental health. We experience this type of pain due to conditioned thinking. TMS or anxiety problems, or any other psychosomatic condition, when boiled down, is nothing more than mistaken thinking on many levels. Sometimes we come to wrong conclusions on our own, and sometimes we are led to believe things that just aren't true, like if you feel your emotions instead of stuffing them your pain will go away as if by magic.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 11:50:11
quote:
Originally posted by balto
My thinking is: Whatever happened in the your past, stay in the past until you brought it back. They are just memories and memories can not hurt you unless you let it to.
Seems to be a sensitive subject, as personal attacks seem to be implied where I do not see such intent.
In my opinion, this explanation is not consistent with TMS theory. In fact, it is completely contradictory to Dr. Sarno's work. Unless I'm misunderstanding, Balto suggests that we are "allowing" our subconscious mind to create symptoms by consciously focusing on past memories and experiences. In effect, we are bringing the pain and anxiety on ourselves. If we simply allow these past experiences (that shaped who we are) to remain buried, then we'll be fine.
It does not work that way. TMS is brought on by personality traits that evolved in part due to life's experiences. Symptoms are not brought on by thinking about these memories and experiences. The symptoms are part of who we are. They are manufactured by our unconscious. We cannot control them. We can only accept them, understand where they are coming from, and not allow them to control us.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 10:17:33
OP on message boards refers to the "Original Poster". |
| djhouseblend |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 09:47:05
Hi Balto, Namaste.
No, I don't think or dwell about my childhood; it's found to be a common factor in Fibro/CTS studies. It's my subconscious I believe is the engine behind my current issues. I think Freud was on to something. "OP" means "Other person", btw. Yes, other people had childhoods worse than me, I know. And some people aren't affected like we are, or they are able to deal with it in other ways.(Or they hide it very well)
I was very surprised (had that Aha! moment) that having a bad childhood was indeed a common factor w/ what ails us today.
Thanks Becca for "one third past stress, one third personal genetics and one third current stressors" Yes, that makes total sense.
Thanks Erata for "Joy I Am"- I will def. check that out! :)
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Suess~ |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 09:10:17
Erata, in all due respect, I don't see what it is you are taking offence to in Balto's post, he is trying to be helpful.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| balto |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 08:34:59
Hi Erata,
I really don't know what I said in my post that is Judgemental and disrespectful to you. (and what is OP stand for?) Can you explain a little more please. That is the last thing I want to do.
I came from a third world country. I was a victim of war, poverty, abuses, and separation. Those memories are painful, scary, and upsetting. They are very much capable of causing tms, IF I LET THEM TO. My thought is many of us are victim of something, some tragedy, some difficulty in life... all those tragedies can cause tms/anxiety, if we let them. So we can either choose to accept them, choose to think of them as an experience that make us stronger or we can choose to re-live them, feel sorry for ourself and suffer tms/anxiety. Your choice.
My post above I just want to say that there are worse things happened all over the world, and if people can survive, we can survive. We need to learn from them, we need to find out how they survive and go on with life without tms/anxiety. We don't have to be a victim for the rest of our life because of something happened long ago in our past. If you want sympathy, you have my sympathy. I was in your place and I know how it felt. But we come here to look for solutions to our pain. We don't come here for sympathy from strangers do we?
I come here to share my experience on how I overcome my tms/anxiety. If you find my posts helpful, great. If you find them disrespectful, please disregard it, it is not my intention.
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| Erata |
Posted - 02/16/2012 : 07:49:19
With all due respect Balto, I think your advice is contradictory, simplistic, and not just a bit judgmental & disrespectful of the OP. Of course, for every injustice or horror committed, something worse has happened to someone else, someplace else. The human cost from global acts of cruelty is a very, very important subject and should never be trivialized. But that isn’t what this forum is about, is it? |
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