| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| polly |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 13:09:23
I'm having a very bad time with this. Briefly, I saw Dr. Sarno after I'd had both knees replaced and was told that the pain I continued to have was from 3 herniated discs and stenosis. Working with Sarno gave me great relief. I believe now that I never needed the knee replacements and only wish I'd gone to Sarno before I had them done.
About 2 months ago, the pain became unbearable. The xrays on my knees show that the plastic parts of the replacements are cracked. A doctor that I'm working with (who believes in Sarno and TMS) had me take a hip xray. It is a cloudy mess with possible stress fractures. I have been trying to apply my TMS approach to these things and I'm sinking fast. I spoke to Sarno about the knees and he was sympathetic, but could offer no guidance. Even if I could live with the knee pain, my hip is torturing me. btw, even before the knee surgery, I had always complained about the pain in my upper right leg. My Sarno friendly doctor feels that all of the pain I had was from the hip problem. I was told by 5 doctors that the pain was generating from my knees and the lack of cartilage.
My husband and son are pushing me to go for more surgery. I feel like I'm in this mess because of surgery, so why would I opt for that? Sometimes I feel like if I didn't have the hip pain, I could cope. Then I think that replacing another joint is insane.
I don't know what to do. I feel lost and scared. I so believe in TMS, because after doing the work, I was 100% healed from any sciatic or nerve pain from the back diagnosis. I'm on pain killers that are destroying my digestive system.
Tom, you spoke about your hip. How are you doing? I could use any encouragement right now. My husband, son and friends mean well. They want me to get better. I do to. I just don't know what to do.
Any help is greatly appreciated. I don't even know if I'm explaining this in any way that could be understood.
Polly |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| polly |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 17:14:29
Yep, I sure do have a full plate. When I was in pain after the knee replacements, the first diagnosis I was given was that it was from 3 herniated discs and stenosis. After seeing Sarno, I got rid of all of that and that's why I am positive about TMS and the way to deal with it. These problems are looking more and more like they're not TMS and I'm terrified.
I'll be seeing doctors in the next few weeks and I'm trying to get myself up to NY to see Sarno before I decided on anything. I want to be perfectly sure that I don't let a conventional doctor treat anything that could be TMS. The problem is that I probably have both going on and it just melds into constant pain.
Thanks for the replies and support. This is just bad.
Polly |
| Mobius |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 16:01:39
Tunza: Thanks for the helpful advice about saving your posts before submitting them. I think that the posting application may have a "Time Out" feature in it as the posts that I have tried to submit were quite long. One of these days I may submit a long post detailing my concepts and strategys with TMS but I will type it up in Word Pad and then copy and paste to the post box.
Hi Polly. You certainly do have a full plate with the involvement of both knees and your hip. I'm sure that the knees are problematic vis-a-vis the hip. My TMS has also targeted my hip for the last 8 or 9 months which is accompanied by Sciatica in the same-side leg. If your hip is grinding bone on bone then that sounds like a possible if not probable cause of the pain but one can't always rule out TMS as the culprit as XRays are not always easy to read. I don't know how long you have had the hip pain or if you had it before the X-Rays. I know that after I started to work with the TMS concept I had times when the pain completely disappeared, not for long periods of time, but of sufficient length to assure me that it was TMS. Have you had any such occurences with a disappearance of the pain? I think that most of the folks on the forum have experienced the same and that it is a fairly good indicator for TMS as this would not be a normal thing with a structural problem. Sorry I can't be of more help to you other than moral support as you alone must decide what is best for you. Good luck. Mobius |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 10:40:22
Hi Polly,
I had my computer handyman come in yesterday and hopefully my e-mail got sent, would have been quicker by snailmail. My bottom line is I feel you need to see a TMS doctor to sort it all out in an unbiased fashion. I have played tennis with ladies that had two knee replacements and I was astounded how well they could SPRINT. Was your problem defective parts or bad installation? I assume you will need new ones to get you back to baseline. Hopefully done right, your knees will return you to ambulatory.
I ran 13 marathons and hundreds of 5, 10ks and halfs, at a good clip with strong, hard finnishes and never had a stress fracture. Sarno says the femur, the biggest bone in the body, heals from a break in 30 days STRONGER! It seems a stress fracture should be like a headache of the skeleton. I am suspicious that stress fractures are just TMS--but I am not a doctor or an anatomist, just a tennis player who is one step slow.
To reinterate, I feel at this point, the only way you can sort all this out, is to see a TMS doctor. I have an appointment with Dr. Schechter and Donald Dubin in LA next week myself, to claryfy some of my lingering doubts. Can you get yourself to a TMS doctor on the East Coast? |
| polly |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 18:17:39
Thank you all for the input, help and support. To Michele: there is no space between the joints at all. Before I even saw the doctor, the radiologist that did the xray said "Wow, that's bad. Did you walk in here?". I haven't done follow up xrays or MRIs out of fear. I've been to two doctors who think that the hip will break with any impact.
My Baseball, Marc hero: I like the questions you ask me to ask myself. I'm going to start from step one and see where it takes me. Most of what I'm feeling right now is dread and depression...I need to clear that up before I go any further.
Albert, muscle relaxers do nothing. Pain killers give me some relief, but it's still hard for me to walk. The pain is constant. It doesn't ever let up. I try to swim everyday and put my head in another place while doing it. No matter what happens, I'm trying to build up the leg muscles that I can. I have been tripping a lot and I'm very unsteady.
I heard from Tom and will try to correspond with him. He once described his hip problem and he plays tennes every day. That's what I'm hoping for...not the tennis, just his strength.
Will post back after some long journaling and personal inventory. Either way, I need to do that. Again, I appreciate the support and help.
Polly |
| Albert |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 11:50:23
Please see answers below.
quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
I'm not sure if these questions will actually get at whether or not this is TMS, Albert. My TMS pain was unremitting, and matched exactly the "injured" area, and there was nothing physically wrong with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Albert
Here are some thoughts/questions:
-Dr. Sarno believes that oxygen deprivation causes the pain. If you do something to increase circulation around your hip, does the pain reduce? BECAUSE IF POLLY'S PAIN WAS DUE TO A "CLOUDY" STRESS FRACTURE, INCREASED BLOOD FLOW WOULDN'T MAKE IT FEEL BETTER.
-Do you feel it all of the time? It seems that if there were a physical problem you would feel it all the time. BECAUSE IF IT COMES AND GOES IT PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE A PHYSICAL CAUSE. A PHYSICAL CAUSE WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE PERSISTENT.
-Does the appearance of a symptom in another part of your body coincide with a reduction of hip pain? SAME AS ABOVE PLUS SUBSTITUTION FACTOR.
-Do the specifics of your hip pain perfectly match the so-called injured spot? IF POLLY FEELS PAIN IN HER HIP IN LOCATIONS THAT AREN'T CLOSELY CONNECTED TO HER "CLOUDY" STRESS FRACTURE, THIS MIGHT SUGGEST THAT THE CAUSE ISN'T PHYSICAL. IT IS BETTER TO QUESTION IN THIS WAY THAN TO HAVE SOME DOCTOR TELL YOU IT'S RADIATING PAIN (often a common, convenient, they don't really know diagnoses).
-Do movements that tend to agrivate your hip pain fail to agrivate it when you do the moments without first thinking about the pain ahead of time? BECAUSE IF THE PROBLEM WAS PHYSICAL, IT WOULD HURT POLLY EVEN IF SHE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN I DON'T THINK ABOUT STANDING UP AND JUST DO IT, I DON'T FEEL THE TIGHTNESS I TEND TO FEEL.
-Just in case it is muscular, does a muscle relaxer cause the pain to reduce. From what I understand, muscle relaxers including alcohol can cause TMS pain to reduce. BECAUSE IF THE PAIN WENT DOWN BECAUSE OF A MUSCLE RELAXER, THIS WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE STRESS FRACTURE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, BECAUSE A MUSCLE RELAXER THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE A PAIN KILLER PROBABLY WOULDN'T CAUSE A STRESS FRACTURE TO RELAX.
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| Hilary |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 11:18:07
I'm not sure if these questions will actually get at whether or not this is TMS, Albert. My TMS pain was unremitting, and matched exactly the "injured" area, and there was nothing physically wrong with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Albert
Here are some thoughts/questions:
-Dr. Sarno believes that oxygen deprivation causes the pain. If you do something to increase circulation around your hip, does the pain reduce?
-Do you feel it all of the time? It seems that if there were a physical problem you would feel it all the time.
-Does the appearance of a symptom in another part of your body coincide with a reduction of hip pain?
-Do the specifics of your hip pain perfectly match the so-called injured spot?
-Do movements that tend to agrivate your hip pain fail to agrivate it when you do the moments without first thinking about the pain ahead of time?
-Just in case it is muscular, does a muscle relaxer cause the pain to reduce. From what I understand, muscle relaxers including alcohol can cause TMS pain to reduce.
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| Albert |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 09:46:59
Here are some thoughts/questions:
-Dr. Sarno believes that oxygen deprivation causes the pain. If you do something to increase circulation around your hip, does the pain reduce?
-Do you feel it all of the time? It seems that if there were a physical problem you would feel it all the time.
-Does the appearance of a symptom in another part of your body coincide with a reduction of hip pain?
-Do the specifics of your hip pain perfectly match the so-called injured spot?
-Do movements that tend to agrivate your hip pain fail to agrivate it when you do the moments without first thinking about the pain ahead of time?
-Just in case it is muscular, does a muscle relaxer cause the pain to reduce. From what I understand, muscle relaxers including alcohol can cause TMS pain to reduce.
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| Michele |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 07:31:03
quote:
Originally posted by polly
Michele,
The xray shows that the hip is arthritic and has no cartillage at all. Yes, they are suggesting a hip replacement. And, since my knees are so weak and have made me unsteady, any fall will break the hip because it is so degenerated.
However, if I can rewrap my brain around and listen to you telling me that you ran a 10K with this problem, and I know that most if not all of my pain is TMS, where did I go so awry? Have you been advised to have a hip replacement? Were you warned that the hip would shatter with any impact? I know Tom has laughed off hip replacement. I need to hear that now. Thanks for helping. I do so appreciate it.
Polly
Polly,
My x-rays only show MILD arthritis. I have plenty of space between the joints, so my situation is quite different from yours. I was told my only option was a hip replacement by an idiot orthopedic surgeon who REFUSED to listen to anything I had to say. He spent all of 3 minutes with me, and that included reviewing x-rays, an MRI and my history. Did he really think I was going to have such a serious surgery after a 3-minute review? He was so arrogant, I wanted to punch him. Oh, I take that back, he probably had a few car payments to make!!
How about a second opinion? I took my x-rays to my chiropractor who looked at them and said, "You have good hips, plenty of space between the bones, and you're fine." Although since I've learned about TMS, I don't see him anymore. |
| Tunza |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 00:28:55
Tennis Tom I've lost a couple of posts before too but I've worked out a way to stop it happening. My internet connection is a little dodgy and often it has flicked me off even though the little icon that shows I'm connected hasn't changed. When I go to "post new reply" an error message appears.
Anyway, once I've finished typing and BEFORE I press "Post New Reply" I select all of the text and copy it (to the clipboard or anywhere is fine). That way if I lose it I can just paste it back in again once I've reconnected etc.
Sorry Polly, this is off the topic but I know that this (losing posts) happens to quite a few people in the forum at one time or another.
Kat |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 20:48:18
Hi Polly.
I never have had any of the problems or procedures that you have gone through,so my input is only observational.
You seem to be really torn apart on this matter.I think there are two very real possibilities,and there might be a litmus test of sort.
There is the possibility that your structural deal is really causing the pain....and the possibility that the Lack of definitive advice,tension of being around and involved with the "system",and the fact that you already made a "mistake" from your point of view are causing even more tension,fear and TMS.
I thought this was illuminating: quote:
It is a cloudy mess with possible stress fractures.
Possible is a very vague diagnosis.I thought you were a little more spot on with: quote:
I feel like I'm in this mess because of surgery, so why would I opt for that? Sometimes I feel like if I didn't have the hip pain, I could cope. Then I think that replacing another joint is insane
Coping...that's what TMS thinks it's helping us do.And now you have all this other crap in front of you to cope with.
Maybe do a real thorough TMS assignment...re-journal,re-check your anger and fear...listen to your heart.A lot of well meaning people sometimes steer us towards what they think will diminish our pain.If your work abates the symptoms than you might get an inkling that it's our old friend.If not,you'll be able to make a clearer choice.
Also,you're not really old,so even if you did fall and break your hip,it wouldn't be the end of the world,and THAN you could replace it...
My ex-producer/good friend has an artificial hip...his was demolished in a motorcycle accident when we were teens.I spoke with him this weekend and his hip is reeeeaaallly bugging him.....and he just built a custom home that has a leaky roof that has caused thousands of dollars worth of damage,and he ran out of money a long time ago.He's been having to work extra hours to fix stuff his contractor is too busy to get around to.He's 400K in debt with an unfinished house....I'm surprised he can even walk!!
Make sure there are no skeletons in the TMS closet...it would be a shame if you had an "aha" moment after your hip was replaced.
You'll know inside yourself what's right if you can get a clear moment...you know the drill as well as any of us.
I really have no insights,just have always read your posts and know you genuinely are looking for the right thing with all the right perspectives.
I hope you figure it out....let us know as it progresses either way
Baseball65 |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 18:12:25
Polly, bad day on the internet for me. I posted you twice and lost both. E-mail me your phone number and I'll call you if you'd like? |
| polly |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 18:00:08
Michele,
The xray shows that the hip is arthritic and has no cartillage at all. Yes, they are suggesting a hip replacement. And, since my knees are so weak and have made me unsteady, any fall will break the hip because it is so degenerated.
However, if I can rewrap my brain around and listen to you telling me that you ran a 10K with this problem, and I know that most if not all of my pain is TMS, where did I go so awry? Have you been advised to have a hip replacement? Were you warned that the hip would shatter with any impact? I know Tom has laughed off hip replacement. I need to hear that now. Thanks for helping. I do so appreciate it.
Polly |
| Michele |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 14:56:30
If I understand you right, you have stress fractures in your hips? Why the surgery? My understanding is with stress fractures you get on some crutches and let them heal. Are they talking about replacement of your hip joints? For what reason? TT and I battle arthritis of the hip joints. I, too, believe most of my pain is TMS related, but struggle every single day with pain. I ran a 10K on Saturday morning and when I woke up Sunday morning, could feel the pain before getting out of bed. It is discouraging, I know. I'm so well conditioned to expect it, that's what I'm working on right now.
I don't know if I can offer much, except if you have stress fractures you should not be putting weight on your hips. |
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