| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| stiwa |
Posted - 01/07/2012 : 13:32:15
Hi everyone,
here is one thing which I have been wondering about lately. I am a long-time TMS sufferer myself. I discovered Dr. Sarno's books back when I was 21. I used it to treat my knee and elbow problems. I used to get pretty severe pain in the knees and elbows – to the point where the joints would lock in mid movement – from weight training. Today, I can lift weights without any elbow pain and I can run and squat with little knee pain (hooray for Dr Sarno!!!).
However, symptom imperative has had me a couple of times. I seem to be repressing a lot of rage since my symptoms include eczema, depression, insomnia and a host of other issues I have been less than successful in treating. They will go away for a while at times but it is like a constant battle. When I am free of symptoms I get pretty paranoid at times thinking about what ambush this f*** syndrome is planning.
Anyway, one of the substitutes I have been wondering about is obesity. This may sound a little odd (and I guess more than one of those who reads this thinks „repressed emotions, what a pathetic excuse for being a glutinous, lazy bum“). However, I do think that there is a point to this assumption. Let me explain:
I gained weight between my 25 and 34 birthday. First, it came on by a rate of about 1 kg per year but that accelerated to the point where after a failed diet I gained 15 kg in six months. I have tried all the traditional apporaches there are: cardio, fat-free diet and low-carb. However none had any influence on my body fat. It seemed as if my belly was impervious to all those supposedly successful weight-loss strategies.
Anyway, I started reading up on the current weight loss literature. Not just that actually. I got interested in endocrinology and exercise theory. The gist of it is: whether you are fat or thin seems to be intricately linked to what your body thinks is right for you. I owe much of this realization to author Jon Gabriel of the Gabriel method. He does a really good job at explaining the biochemical reactions that lead to weight gain and how they are linked to emotional states. One of his main conclusions is that your body wants you to be fat when you feel insecure. I must admit that his methods (visualization) did not work for me. However, one evening when I was particularly frustrated about being unattractive I looked into the mirror and said: I hate obsessing about this. That was the moment when something clicked in my head. Isn't TMS about obsessing, too? I thought.
Indeed, obesity in our society shares some important links with TMS theory:
1. It is a pretty good distraction. Just look at any newspaper stand and you will realize that you could spend your entire life on diet magazines. Also, the prevalence of mirrors in our surroundings makes it impossible to escape your own reflection.
2. It is painful. If you have ever been fat you know how much rejection and condescension fat people have to deal with in Western culture. Being a social outcast is a very powerful emotional stressor.
3. It is en vogue. Sarno writes that our minds will choose a repression that is en vogue. This explains the back pain epidemic, he says. What if it also explained the obesity epidemic? Newspapers are full of reports about our growing waistlines.
4. Scientific explanations lack a bit of coherence so far. Depending on who you talk to it is either the calories, the fat, the carbs, the lack of movement/exercise, the lack of vitamins and minerals or a lack of sleep which makes us fat. The problem is: for every culprit there is also an exception which makes the theory at least questionable. Yet, some findings point into the direction of the brain as a source of high body fat rates. For example, the brain governs the production of thyroid hormone which plays an important part in metabolism. The brain also governs appetite regulation. And it is closely linked to the parts of the body which produce cortisol (hypercortisolism can be a cause of obesity).
5. Placebo – there are countless weight loss methods out there and they do work for some. However, they do not work for everyone and the long-term results of many methods are not very convincing.
With all this in mind, I started asking myself whether it was sensible to regard obesity as a TMS equivalent. Can it be treated this way? Should I start focussing on repressed emotions when I feel sad about my reflection in the mirror? Or when I get cravings for certain „fattening“ foods?
I wonder what you guys think about it.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 11/16/2012 : 08:05:49
There was a man on this message board a few years ago -- he recovered and went on with his life within a few months -- who discovered he had body image issues. He was very dissatisfied with the look of his body which fed into his low self esteem. He felt it was a major contributor to his symptoms. If this is an issue for you please google the term: "Body Image & Self-Esteem."
Pay close attention to how your refer to yourself. |
| jaya |
Posted - 10/22/2012 : 11:27:08
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Jaya, you are the first person to confirm what I thought. Could you please explain to us what exactly you did to loose te weight and did you avoid food or diet in any way in addition? Thanks in advance.
my food needs to be a meat, fruit, vegetable...other wise i dont eat it....quantity wise i eat as much as i want and never gain a pound, following that rule, gluten products and anything with more than 4 ingredients isnt fit for human consumption, thats processed garbage.... |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 10/21/2012 : 16:26:07
Jaya, you are the first person to confirm what I thought. Could you please explain to us what exactly you did to loose te weight and did you avoid food or diet in any way in addition? Thanks in advance. |
| jaya |
Posted - 10/21/2012 : 15:27:34
I was real heavy at one point.....kerp in mind avoiding food can also be a distraction..I lost 110 pounds in two and a half .....not good ...ive maintained 175 lbs for two years now...its not so much what you feed your body...its what you feed your head that you have to worry about |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/21/2012 : 13:06:30
I am so fat that both of my ass cheeks have separate zip codes with a connecting bridge in between. |
| stiwa |
Posted - 09/27/2012 : 14:51:30
Hi Mala,
I agree with a lot of what you wrote. However, I think that part of the problem is that we think that certain foods or portion sizes will make us fat. I don't know whether what I and you think really makes such a big difference as to results. My point is that it makes a difference as to what strategy you should employ to get out of this hole.
If you think that you need to be educated on healthy nutrition and exercise you are basically in body treatment mode. You think that how much you weigh or what your body looks like will be determined by how much or what you put into it. This creates a thinking pattern which is very much alike to back pain problems. You have to eat/move in a certain way because if you don't your weight/your pain will increase. You fear chocolate/moving heavy stuff because it will bring on fat/pain. You become thin/painfree but adhereing religiously to a certain diet/back exercise program (placebo).
So how would I go about treating this problem? I have chosen to ignore all the healthy nutrition bull and start eating what I want and how much I want. Instead, I have started telling myself at lunch that what I eat cannot affect my weight or health (apart from poisonous mushrooms and the like). What's interesting is that I have found that I crave variety much more, now that I am no longer preoccupied with feeling guilty about what or how much I want to eat. I have found though that thinking about what might be bothering me has somehow affected my sweet tooth. Some things are just too sweet for me to enjoy.
I know that it is probably not healthy to stuff oneself but the point is: you won't stop yourself from stuffing yourself by obsessing about your food intake or healthy nutrition. That may work for some time and then you will either start bingeing or get another form of symptom imperative like depression. I know that this makes many people uneasy because they think that fat people now may feel justified in going overboard. My point is: I have yet to meet a fat person who is happy with her/his body. Most of them feel guilty about their body and would go a long way to change it. Yet, most of them fail (I am sorry but this is what is supported by scientific evidence).
Now the usual objection is: but I know of someone who really overhauled her life, dieted, exercised, and lost all that fat. As I said: the power of placebo is great. But there is also something else. There are people who lose a lot of weight and then stay slim. Yet, the examples I have found did not only change the way they eat and exercise. They changed their lives. They overcame their isolation and reached out to others. They told themselves that they would no longer let feelings of inadequacy dominate their life.
Eating so-called healthy stuff is great. I like salads and vegetables and home-cooked meals. I love chefs who know how to use spices and fresh ingredients. But I also know that obsessing about what you should or should not eat opens a dangerous road. I have walked down that road for one year and it brought me nothing but misery, loneliness, and despair. I would stop seeing friends so I could go home after work and cook something. Now, if I have the choice between a) seeing my friends but having to eat some fast food and b) being alone but having something home-cooked I will choose a). (Of course, cooking for my friends is the optimum solution but it does not always work that way.)
I guess the lesson would be: be easy on yourself. Stop focusing on nutrition and exercise. Start focusing on the feelings which you hide from yourself with your weight problems and feelings of inadequacy. (Remind yourself that your weight is not a problem, it is a cover-up.) And most of all, learn how to give yourself pleasure (that includes food but if you can only find pleasure in food that is a strong indicator that you should look for conflict in your subconscious, not on your plate).
Don't exercise. Play. Don't diet. Nourish yourself.
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| Gemini6 |
Posted - 09/24/2012 : 15:25:33
Ruling out medical issues for weight problems, I also believe that obesity/bulimia/anorexia are TMS equivalents. I also believe that Dr. Sarno would probably agree. I never thought of my weight issue as being TMS equivalent, but it makes perfect sense to me now.
Most eating disorders are symptoms of depression and/or anxiety, which Dr. Sarno counts as TMS equivalents. Again, it's all about getting to the core of the problems -- the repressed anger and rage we keep inside literally eats at us.
This is such an eye-opener for me. I have struggled with weight issues for most of my life (although not obesity). But, I have extremely negative feelings about my body image (I'm not good enough, I hate myself...etc.). I think therapy and Dr. Sarno's treatment may be the way for me to start.
His treatment has worked for me in the past for other TMS problems, so why not weight management?
This forum is truly amazing! |
| mala |
Posted - 09/24/2012 : 06:30:09
Food is cultural, & emotional. There is no doubt the way we eat & the way we think about food will determine our weight .The body is a well-balanced piece of machinery & it will work well for you if you treat it right.
But so few people know how to treat it right. We eat becoz food tastes good. Today food tastes so good & is so readily available that we have forgotten just how much (or how little ) we are supposed to eat. We eat too much, we eat too fast, we eat too many times throughout the day, we eat badly. We don’t understand portions. Most people don’t know what a normal portion of food is. What most Americans & people in the west eat in one sitting is very often the calorie intake for the whole day.
And we don’t move enough. When we put on weight we begin to diet. Some people diet their whole lives & wonder why they aren’t losing weight. We all know that the less food you put in the more the body holds on to fat. It is the way our body protects itself. Continuous Binging & dieting screws the body.
Chocolate does not make you fat. Eating a lot of chocolate does. We are not meant to eat chocolate every day only as an occasional treat & not in conjunction with cakes, ice cream, Colas etc.
What people need is proper education on healthy food & nutrition.
Also schools need to educate kids on body image and self-confidence. The media puts so much pressure on people to look a certain way. It’s paying havoc with our bodies & minds.
The real epidemic is not that I THINK the steak is going to make me fat. The right amount of steak eaten occasionally will not make anyone fat. The real epidemic is one of size & portion. Seeing people eat a vast amount of food & thinking that it is normal to do so will most definitely cause obesity.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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| stiwa |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 11:23:58
Hi Balto,
I can understand your struggle and to be honest: even though I brought that subject up I still find myself wondering whether chocolate won't make me fat at times. It's really hard to change thought patterns - but then it was really hard to convince myself that my knees are alright.
Anyway, I never wanted to imply that TMS can create mass out of nothing. No one ever got fat from eating nothing. That person died in the end but he or she was surely not fat on that day. The point is: usually we do not go that far. Yet, when we eat it is our hormonal set-up which determines whether the calories we eat will feed our muscles or our fat cells. If cortisol is high for example your muscle cells will become insulin resistant and all the calories will go to your fat cells.
I think what might give you a hard time believing this is that you take a calculation like eat 2,000 calories burn 3,000 calories and think that you can do this indefinitely. This is not what happens. At first, your body will probably use some of the stored energy to make up for the deficit. Keep in mind that weight can change for several pounds in the course of a few days. It is not that stable as we would like to believe.
But what happens when you go on eating and exercising that way? What has been observed by countless dieters is that weight-loss stops at one point. The famous plateau. And then someting else happens. Instead of using stored energy the body will make a hormonal shift which will make muscle cells insulin resistant. So while you are still losing weight you are now no longer losing fat but lean mass. You will get weaker and at one point you won't have the energy to go on burning 3,000 cals while eating 2,000. You will start eating more and exercising less at this point if you are not TMSing to a point that will lead to serious health problems. And then you will gain weight. Ancel Keyes did a starvation study which demonstrated this process. His participants starved themselves for several months then started eating ad libitum again. They gained weight for several months and then someting funny happened. While still eating ad libitum they started losing again. BEcause their bodies were convinced that the bad times were over and the reserves were not needed. Keep in mind that this happened at a time when six-packs were not mandatory for men.
The point I am trying to make is that the brain will determine what happens with the energy you consume. There is no reason one should not assume that it will choose body fat percentage as a point of attack if being fat is what you fear most.
It is true that some countries do not have an obesity epidemic. The problem is: the introduction of modern food never happens in isolation. It is always accompanied by modern media (with their constant admonition not to eat too much this or that, to watch your appetite which basically means not to trust your body and your hunger feelings but something as arbitrary as calorie measurements) and in many places it was also accompanied by the introduction of modern socioeconomic structures like capitalism and the collapse of traditional family structures. To say that food would be responsible for the obesity epidemic we witness in many countries around the world is the wrong focus I think. Once again like something physical is made responsible for an entirely emotional process.
I think it is no accident that this epidemic originated in America and Europe by the way. It ties in nicely with our general cultural attitude shaped by Christianity: everything pleasurable is a sin and you will suffer for your sins. I still think what a big joke it all is: millions of people agonizing about that innocent piece of chocolate they had after lunch. That piece of chocolate that never held the power to make them fat. Who knows? If one did not connect chocolate so much with guilt, shame, and fear, it might even help you lose weight. :-)
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| balto |
Posted - 09/10/2012 : 07:41:22
Ok Ace1, I'm going to go back and ask my teachers what they think about this one. 
I'm sure as an MD you have seen tons of tms at your work place and know much more than I do. I'm going to trust you on this one. I'm just struggling to accept that tms can create mass out of nothing. I'm going to read up on metabolize. Thanks.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 06:59:32
One more thing, TMS can present itself in any manner, so just bc something doesn't happen in a stressful time, doesn't mean it's not TMS In one person it's pain, another autoimmune another need for glasses and these things can add up. Did we hear of an increase in chronic pain in Britain during the war? I didn't hear of that. I remember you said your family all went thru hard times but none had chronic pain, right? That does not make chronic pain not TMS. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 06:50:07
Ok believe it or not extreme thinness and obesity are both TMS related. It kind of comes down to mind power and what you truly believe in your unconscience mind. If fast food comes to you country and you see everyone else eating this stuff and getting fat, what do you think the first thought conscience or unconscience that your going to get? You going to feel that this is not good for me but I'm going eat it anyway. Now let's say you eat a diet of lettuce, how do you feel about that, you feel that this has no ability to make you gain weight and what happens? If these thoughts happen enough whala, you loose weight, but you then don't want to eat lettuce all your life you see a nice steak and you binge, you have already trained your mind to associate this with fat, so what happens, you gain all the weight you have lost. Now obviously there is a thing called calories and your body does use this for energy that is a law of nature. The way you absorb these calories and how they are burned off is what is controlled by the mind. Balto you can tell by your posts that your belief is so, so deep on what you are saying that I would not be surprised one bit if what you are saying applies to you exactly. It does take new thinking, mind power techniques and time to change this. Let's say tomorrow you decided to change your belief and you ate everything, you would still gain weight bc you haven't given it enough time to change the unconscience process which can take months to years depending on how engrained the original thought is. One last point, a deep believe that causes a negative result is not necessary a process that is trying to distract you (TMS). Is just your reality based on your belief. I think in obesity it can be both bc of just the belief and also as the syndrome related to a revved up mind. Like I said just observe, and you will see. |
| balto |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 20:36:41
Ace1, I don't know much about multiple sclerosis, but I believe many of our illnesses are tms/anxiety. When you wrote that cancer is tms, I agreed with you right away. I have read much about the connection between cancers and the mind, and many of my teachers also told me the same thing. But I am really struggle to believe obesity is one of them. There is currently a big obesity problem in China. The economic expansion reward China's population with lot of foods. They also watch more television. They switched their bicycle for motorized transportations. "Fast foods" are much more available there now. The same thing is happening in Vietnam. In the 80's I have never seen any obese or over weight Vietnamese. I came back for a visit in 2004 and there are lots of obese people there.
I really think obesity is the product of our modern world. Processed foods, fast foods, food are much more available. Add to that we are much more sedentary now than ever. We drive instead of walk or bike. We use remote controls instead of having to get up and walk to the television to change the channels. Kids spend more time with their ipod and gameboys than playing outdoor with their friends... That got to make us fat, we don't need any help from tms to be obese here.
There is a study done in Britain. During the whole 20th century, there is a close relationship between obesity and modern affluent lifestyles characterised by abundant food and increasingly sedentary habits. Except during the 1940's during the war. With food rationing and food control, obesity disappear in England. With the stress of war and the lost of loveones, we would have expect there be more tms cases during the war right? then they should have more cases of obesity if obesity is tms equivalent, but that is not the case there.
At the moment I am not convince yet, but I will try to learn more, search more for answer.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 16:19:34
Ok balto in response to you. Did you know that tms usually occurs in epidemics. So did you know multiple sclerosis is not common in Africa even though there is obviously tms there. Did you know when then move to the us they start to get it. Well same with the Asian countries when they move here they can get fat. You mention calories in vs activity. Well the secret link is the metabolism. This is what is affected. I know it's hard to believe. But don't take our words on it, just do your own research observing the world and you will see. |
| balto |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 15:37:55
I'm still struggling to accept that obesity is tms. If someone told me that tms made him nervous and anxious so he would try to comfort himself with food and end up gaining lots of weigh, I would agree right away. But if you tell me that if you eat 2000 calories a day and burn 3000 calories through physical activities and still gain weight because tms caused the gain in weight, I find it very difficult to accept or understand. Well, let agree to disagree on this one.
I still don't see how tms could produce mass out of nothing. Althought tms is very powerful I still think it got to comply with the law of physic. If you burn more than you take in, no amount of tms can make you heavier. I have to research more on this one, because I do trust Ace1 on this, but at the moment, I'm going to disagree.
Also, in China, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Lao, before they achieved economic success, there are no over weight or obese people in those country, accept maybe for chairman Mao and his gang. If obese is tms then this tell me it only happen to people in rich countries. Tms somehow can't produce the symptom of obesity in poor country. I have tried and failed to find any picture of an obese person in North Korea and somalia, and I googled all over the internet and youtube. (accept for Kim Jung-un). I'm sure with the horrible living condition there, they must have some people with tms there.
and talking about dieting, My thought is when they failed, they failed for the same reason. Their calories intake is higher than the calories they burned and more than needed to maintain their weight. (you can check the calories needed to maintain current weight or to loose weight at http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm )
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 07:22:24
I agree with everything said above about weight. These thoughts are so engrained in our society that it is hard to change but still doable |
| stiwa |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 03:02:18
Gosh, my last posting was a bit my smart pants side showing. Sorry. 
Anyway, what I wanted to say was this:
Anxiety is at the root of gaining fat. If TMS is at work and fear of fat is a suitable diversion then you will gain fat no matter how much or what you eat.
The placebo principle applies for diets. Diets substitute physical control (i.e. what and how much you eat) for mental work (TMS work). If the diet works you will be afraid of the moments when you don't adhere to it. And if it doesn't work you will be trying to figure out why. (You can substitute the word "exercise" for "diet" here, when you do exercise for weight loss and not for fun. If you don't understand the difference watch small kids. You will see pure joy of movement - nothing else.)
If you focus on trying not to want sugar or fat or whatever else the current pet peeve of the media is you turn food into a fetish. You endow it with a magical force it doesn't possess. And you give yourself the licence to obsess with something irrelevant instead of thinking about the things you truly want: love, patience, and peace. The only way to get those is by going to the dark place inside of your soul. They are frightening and lonely so don't beat yourself up if you lack the courage for the moment. Courage will grow once you pay attention to the fact that a life full of TMS pain is worse than facing the wicked witch/the ghremlin or whatever fear you have. |
| stiwa |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 15:33:59
Thanks everyone for the replies.
Ace1 and Wavy Soul: Your comments resonated a lot with me and I will definitely look into your older posts Ace1.
The reason why I am convinced that obesity (or just plain being fat if you want) is TMS is that so much of what happens to food once we have eaten is beyond our control. Think about it: You have control over your food until you have swallowed it. Once it is down there in your stomache you can no longer do anything about it. Will it go and feed your muscles or organs? Will it be turned into lean mass? Will it be burned off because the body simply raises its temperature for a while? Or will it go into your fat cells? This is decided by your hormonal set-up. Some people overeat but don't get fat. Others never overeat and get fat. I read somewhere that apparently insulin resistance is caused by high intracellular cortisol levels - cortisol is one of the stress hormones.
I believe in the law of physics, Balto. The thing is: our bodies are not ovens. I once read a story about a Polish woman who gained an incredible amount of fat (400 pounds) and lived on 1200 calories a day. She should have lost weight on that diet but instead her weight was climbing continuously. I do thin you are right when you say ultimately it's your life that makes you fat. My life is called TMS and I can't believe I have been battling it for so long now.
What your body does with the food you eat is determined by your brain. I am not even sure that the food itself plays such a big role. I have read Sisson - that was the start of my misery. I have since read a lot on nutrition and I must say that wondering whether gluten, dairy or histamine intolerance is the cause of your misery is a great distraction from your repressed emotions. (I am an intense person - the problem is I can't feel it. At least not all the time.)
I don't think that grains cause any problems to be honest. I once found the idea convincing but then I read about two scientific discoveries that made me question it: 1. Some archeologists found out that Europeans have eaten flour as far as 30,000 years back. 2. Biologists found out that Tibetans have genetically adapted to lower oxygen in their air in the past 3,000 years. If Tibetans could adapt that fast, then why should we have any problems with carbs or wheat after more than 10 times the amount of time?
Balto: Thanks for mentioning support. That really hit home because the person I love most is gone.
Oh and ACE1: I think it is no surprise that obesity runs in families. "You don't want to eat that candy, darling. We gain fat quickly in this family. Eat it and you'll turn out just like your dad." (Nocebos are everywhere.)
I think I will stick to therapy and the recommendation from Geneen Roth, author of "Breaking free from emotional eating". It's a great book by the way. Even if you have never had a weight problem or eating disorder she can teach you a lot. Her first recommendation: eat when you are hungry. Eat what you want. Don't feel guilty or freaked out. It will only make you binge.
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 09/02/2012 : 23:11:33
Yeah - I definitely don't think calories and weight are correlated in any absolute sense, just as MRI's and back pain are not necessarily cause/effect based. Not in my experience.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/01/2012 : 09:40:40
Hi as a dr I have seen it all. People who eat everything and thin as a rail. Very obese people that hardly eat anything. I have seen obese people with thin children and vise versa. Although the tendency is if you parents are obese you tend to be too. Its very complicated on why I think the way I do, but the only think that makes logical sense, just like the structural abnormalities is tms. Is kind of like every time you eat something you think is bad for you, you tend to have a negative thought about your self image which I think leads to the obesity. I haven't worked it out perfectly yet but just some preliminary ideas |
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