| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BecB |
Posted - 12/15/2011 : 11:52:42
Hello,
Is anyone else suffering form severe TMS as well as panic attacks? After reading about TMS I realize that I have had lots of this type of pain through stressful times of my life. I also have always suffered from anxiety. About a year ago, however, after getting new crowns put on, I developed severe pain in my teeth/face and started having constant panic attacks. Nothing appears wrong on x-ray.
I feel for me these issues, pain and panic, are intertwined. I try very hard to work on not letting the pain bother me but then the panic, and pain flare very severely. Just wondering if anyone had any suggestions. I have three small children and am so worried about not getting better.
Thanks,
Becca |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Joy_I_Am |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 08:49:28
Good link, thank you, but looooong! It'll take me a while to get through it, but some bits really resonated with me.
Today I googled, in exasperation, 'I feel ill all the time' and got LOADS of links up to anxiety sites! In one, No More Panic, the posters were saying that they feel ill all the time in vague ways - nausea, abdominal discomfort, headache, eye strain, sore all over (oh yes!), fatigue and fogginess - and that they KNOW it is anxiety - seems they've hit on the Sarno theory without realising it!
One of them said it felt, every day, like they were coming down with a virus, and this is something I get too. You start to wonder how other people feel, not waking up like that every day, and you feel jealous of them! I've been up against lots of TMS symptoms lately, and knowing what they are, I do my best to ignore them, laugh at them. I know, as Wodg seems to be saying, that the best thing for me is to get on with life. But it's hard when it's a general feeling of 'unwellness'. It saps your energy, both physical and psychic. It 'plays on your nerves'!
I do know that I can't pin anxiety down as a cause or an effect of TMS - I think it's both. I would rather not take drugs if I can help it, but I feel sometimes your system gets so overwhelmed that it needs a 'time out', so in those circumstances I will take a small dose of propranolol (beta blocker). It seems to help.
I know this post is a bit of a ramble, but hope that last bit might help someone!
|
| Wodg |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 21:35:32
I tried to cure anxiety for years, then gave up on life totally.
Neither works.
If I could go back in time and talk to my young self I would tell me to completely ignore it, feel the pain, keep busy and never think about it ever again. |
| rollergirl |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 09:09:10
Love what you've said! I don't think I totally understand the subconscious concept that I've been hearing about regarding this. But yeah, facing fear is definitely my interpretation of it - as if it helps reprogram the subconscious? Maybe another thread talks about this in detail? *wondering*  |
| balto |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 17:06:59
quote:
Originally posted by rollergirl
True! I consciously know what gives me anxiety and my fears, but it's the unconscious that I'm working on now. 
I think it is going to be difficult doing that. How would you go about working with the unconscious? you can't see it, you can't hear it, you can't feel it, you don't even know if it exist or what it keep in there.
why don't we just do what the good doctors have taught. Dr Sarno told us to keep doing all the physical things we want to do without fear. Dr Claire Weekes told us to not fear our symptoms. Don't pay any attention at the pain, the panic, and in time they will disappear. That's all it take to cure yourself. It is extremely simple and it worked for thousand and thousand of patients just these two doctors had.
The solution is very simple, the hard part, the difficult part is how to overcome fear. Fear is the fuel of the fire. Fear is what keep the tms/anxiety engine running. Fear is what keep the our bodies to continuously producing stress chemicals and stress hormones. Fear is what made us tensed up our bodies and constrict the blood flow and created the pains. Fear is what kept us up at night. We need to get rid of the fear and get our life back.
How to get rid of fear? There are many many ways to do it. Our brain can only think of one thing at a time. It can not hold 2 thoughts at the same moment. It can hold one thought right after another thought in a split second, but it can not hold 2 at the same time. People with tms/anxiety is full of fearful thoughts, they need to replace that thought with some other realistic or positive thougtht.
- Some just made up their mind and refuse to fear and go on with life as if it is nothing bothering them.
- Some pray and pray and seriously pray.
- Some do meditation, yoga, taichi... and learn to control their thoughts.
- Some do positive self talk, recruit the help of a friend, loveone to keep remind them there is nothing to be fearful of.
- Some push themselve hard and do all the exercise, sports,... to prove that the pain is nothing to be affraid of and they can overcome it. In time they gain more and more confidence. Their self esteem return and pushed out all those fearful thoughts.
-.....
Do everything you can to stop being fearful. Tell yourself to accept the pain for a while longer until you get back control of your thoughts.
Many of us went through much worse than what happenning to you right now and we got well. You can do it. But you have to help yourself. You just have to do it. Don't just sit there doing the same thing days in days out with no good results. Don't focus on your pain. Go out and be with your kids, with other people. Your focus should be on anything but your pain/anxiety.
Goodluck BecB |
| rollergirl |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 15:13:42
True! I consciously know what gives me anxiety and my fears, but it's the unconscious that I'm working on now. |
| Darko |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 15:06:13
Rollergirl,
you have to look at WHY you get anxiety....what thoughts are going and what are you fearing in the future? If you don't do this you will never know the source of it and it will persist.
D |
| rollergirl |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 14:52:05
Becca, I completely relate! I have suffered from severe anxiety my whole life but it has taken on various forms probably to disguise itself, just like what the brain does in TMS. I have been diagnosed with social phobia, was on Paxil, and used to get panic attacks all the time. Once I got used to those, my body would break out in rashes. And then once I got used to the rashes meaning stress then another physical symptom would pop up - usually back-related or all-over soreness. Now it is coming up for me with a sciatic nerve and really as TMS. Hang in there! Sometimes no matter how much yoga and mediatation I do I just cannot control the anxiety. I deep breath while the anxiety hits and just move through it. It can be painful but I remind myself that it'll pass. |
| Darko |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 14:01:51
Bec,
Hillbilly and Shari, I feel are right on the money! I used to also have anxiety and getting control of what goes on in my head has been the key. The more intelligent you are the more you can see "down the road" of events....and the mind naturally will focus on the negative events as that's all our society is about.
Stop focusing on the negative stuff and there will not be a need for you to generate anxiety....plain and simple. When you have less Tension in your body you will have less TMS pain......this has been my experience....Hillbilly's and Shari's also!
Good luck
D |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 07:45:35
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
quote:
I think my whole nervous system is so taxed at this point it is amlost impossible to calm down enough to do the thought challenge work. I am really considering going back on small amounts of anxiety medications for the time being just to collect myself enough to get through this. Right now it is a spiral of pain, panic, severe pain, panic attack to the point I am throwing up. Is it defeat to take a step back and do such a thing, medication wise?
Here is something worth considering: http://blogs.psychcentral.com/panic/2012/03/sensitization-are-you-conditioned-to-overreact-to-stress/
This article recounts information from Dr. Claire Weekes book, from 1972.
As far as meds for anxiety go: Dr. Weekes advised that sometimes your system is so depleted that help is needed, and it is nothing to be ashamed about. Sometimes trying to "tough it through" without meds is just one more form of fighting instead of accepting, bucking instead of "floating". One does not usually "snap" out of it, especially after the body has become overly sensitized and fear (of the symptoms) has set in. Take it for what it's worth.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
I think it's worth a lot. |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 07:40:09
Hi Bec,
You're calling your symptom "trigeminal nerve pain" which is probably a worst case scenario. Why can't it just be TMJ?
Right now I'm going through a pretty bad bout of TMJ due to getting myself all worked up going to the doctor regarding my pelvic infection that was causing pain. All the worst case scenarios were going through my head, endo, adhesions, hernia etc. I was literally on the verge of getting panic attacks every time I thought of having to deal with doctors because at this point, I despise them for how they treated me.
So, I put off going to the doctors for two weeks all the while my infection was getting really bad. I finally have no choice once I start oozing. I was in the office for a little over an hour and was prescribed antibiotics. That was it!
But what do I get for working myself up? I start getting electric shocks in my right eye and teeth. The next day I wake up with full blown jaw pain. I feel like I have a bad cavity in every tooth on my right side. My jaw is so swollen I can't close my mouth all the way. And I feel like someone is putting a hot poker behind my eye.
I'm still going through it, but it's gotten much milder. I realized I made a huge mistake in getting myself all anxious and tense. So, the TMS symptom we call TMJ is just the price I have to pay for it.
But it will end. I'm not going to put a scary title on it like trigeminal nerve pain. That is only going to make it worse.
Try not making your pain into a worst case scenario. Just understand that you have severe anxiety which causes a lot of tension. All that is going to your jaw. The tight muscles will cause teeth pain, it will cause electrical shocks and it will cause jaw pain. I have gotten up to 10 shocks per minute at times. But it's not scary if you know what it really is, TMS.
I don't have kids or a husband to take care of. So, I know that adds more stress for you. And perhaps that makes it easier for me to get better. But TMSers with kids can overcome the most excruciating pain and so can you. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 07:06:09
quote:
I think my whole nervous system is so taxed at this point it is amlost impossible to calm down enough to do the thought challenge work. I am really considering going back on small amounts of anxiety medications for the time being just to collect myself enough to get through this. Right now it is a spiral of pain, panic, severe pain, panic attack to the point I am throwing up. Is it defeat to take a step back and do such a thing, medication wise?
Here is something worth considering: http://blogs.psychcentral.com/panic/2012/03/sensitization-are-you-conditioned-to-overreact-to-stress/
This article recounts information from Dr. Claire Weekes book, from 1972.
As far as meds for anxiety go: Dr. Weekes advised that sometimes your system is so depleted that help is needed, and it is nothing to be ashamed about. Sometimes trying to "tough it through" without meds is just one more form of fighting instead of accepting, bucking instead of "floating". One does not usually "snap" out of it, especially after the body has become overly sensitized and fear (of the symptoms) has set in. Take it for what it's worth.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| BecB |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 01:12:40
Thank you very much for all your posts and suggestions! In retrospect, I wish I would have gotten my anxiety issues better under control earlier in life before things reached this state. I am remaining positive, however, and need to believe that there will be better days ahead. This will be a process for me, that is for sure.
I was doing a little better and was working to get off any medications. The last one I was on was a small dose of zoloft. Anyway, all the horribly painful TMS symptoms and panic have come back so severely that I am taking it minute by minute through the day. I am writing at 2am because I cannot sleep. I think my whole nervous system is so taxed at this point it is amlost impossible to calm down enough to do the thought challenge work. I am really considering going back on small amounts of anxiety medications for the time being just to collect myself enough to get through this. Right now it is a spiral of pain, panic, severe pain, panic attack to the point I am throwing up. Is it defeat to take a step back and do such a thing, medication wise?
I wish my TMS would go to a different part of my body! I can take weather all the various physical panic symptoms but the trigeminal nerve pain that hits my teeth and face on one side is my TMS symptom that makes me fall apart. This pain started after dental work. I have small kids and this adds to the panicky, 'I have so much responsibiliy this cannot be happening' feeling. Plus all the previous 'trigeminal neuralgia' info seaking that I have since learned through CBT is a big No No has not helped to say the least.
Like I said previously, I have the classic TMS personality as well as a history of anxiety disorders. I just wish things had not progressed to this point. Again, I need to stop myself from ruminating since we cannot go backward and take it one day at a time. Thank you again for your suggestions.
Becca
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 12/19/2011 : 19:51:00
http://nothingworks.weebly.com/
So, who is this person? |
| Wodg |
Posted - 12/18/2011 : 15:10:52
quote:
Originally posted by TaylorJoh
http://nothingworks.weebly.com/
Reading this now ... looong but fascinating!
I great read. Nothing works for me either other than getting up and living, moving forward.
That's not what I do though most of the time. I read health websites, look in the mirror and pick out imperfections. Avoid work and day to day chores...as soon as I start to move forward I know how to scare the living **** out of myself with TMS/OCD/anxiety.
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| Hillbilly |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 09:33:13
Bec,
I was in the same boat, which meant to me that TMS, in its original form of being soft-tissue pain brought on by tension, is a by-product of anxiety, and nothing more. Since most here have entered the gate of dealing with psychosomatic illness by reading Dr. Sarno, you will often read TMS used globally to include many different ailments. But you are quite correct to think of back pain as being another symptom of your anxiety issue. Read the books Back-2-It recommends and, more importantly, do what they say: go back to living and behaving as you did before your symptoms arrived, and you will be cured. It's not much more complicated than that.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 00:01:21
Taylor,
Fascinating indeed. Word for word, it might be the best single thing I've read on the subject. For me at least, it speaks directly to me. I truly believe he's done all sufferers a great service with this writing.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| TaylorJoh |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 15:15:30
http://nothingworks.weebly.com/
Reading this now ... looong but fascinating! |
| balto |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 15:01:18
If you follow Back2it's suggestion you will eventually "cure" yourself. I just want to add a few things: you have to be patient. It will take sometime to get rid of the paint. It took you a long time to "think" yourself into this illness, it will take a sometime to "think" yourself out of it. Don't get angry, don't get discourage if you don't get well right away.
And don't focus on your pain. Better yet, don't focus on yourself. If you can completely forget yourself for awhile you will get well. Pain and stress can only exist to us when we care too much about ourself. So loose yourself and try to live for other around you. Try to think of what good you can do for someone each and everday.
I read a very touching news story today: http://news.yahoo.com/anonymous-donors-pay-off-kmart-layaway-accounts-221000605.html . Very inspiring, it made me feel like I want to do something myself to contribute a little, however small.
Goodluck BecB.
There are many many good post in this forum. Spend sometime reading it. I'm sure ou will get well in time. I did. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 13:43:02
quote:
Originally posted by BecB
Hello,
Is anyone else suffering form severe TMS as well as panic attacks? After reading about TMS I realize that I have had lots of this type of pain through stressful times of my life. I also have always suffered from anxiety. About a year ago, however, after getting new crowns put on, I developed severe pain in my teeth/face and started having constant panic attacks. Nothing appears wrong on x-ray.
There is a causal nexus, I believe, between having some type of medical procedure, anxiety, and developing physical symptoms that are akin to the procedure. You remember the acute pain of the procedure and it becomes a learned pain, because the thought of it never leaving and being in pain for life is in an anxious person's brain. Or the pain may go for awhile and then, even years later, appear in that spot, or near. Those are just my observations from this forum and elsewhere. Then tests are done and there is no conclusive finding, then the cycle of pain-fear-pain continues and then blows up into a constant panic. That was my case, certainly. The panic, anxiety and the TMS symptoms are all one big painful knot -- and common.
quote:
I feel for me these issues, pain and panic, are intertwined. I try very hard to work on not letting the pain bother me but then the panic, and pain flare very severely. Just wondering if anyone had any suggestions. I have three small children and am so worried about not getting better.
Thanks,
Becca
Suggestions?
I have two reading suggestions that have helped me, beyond Dr. Sarno's books. One is "Hope and Help for Your Nerves",by Dr. Claire Weekes, recommended by many on here; and another, called "Mental Health through Will Training," by Dr. Abraham Low. Both books were written long ago, proving that there is nothing new under the sun. Dr. Sarno's great contribution to all of this is that if you have a back problem he explains that you shouldn't, and why. The others do not, because they wrote before modern imaging.
Read the success stories.
Work on overcoming the fear of your pain. It can be done, but I'm the first to say that it ain't easy.
You'll get there. 
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 10:42:38
===================================================================
"Anxiety
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anxiety (also called angst or worry) is a psychological and physiological state characterized by somatic, emotional, cognitive, and behavioral components.[2]. It is the displeasing feeling of fear and concern [3] The root meaning of the word anxiety is 'to vex or trouble'; in either presence or absence of psychological stress, anxiety can create feelings of fear, worry, uneasiness, and dread.[4] Anxiety is considered to be a normal reaction to a stressor. It may help an individual to deal with a demanding situation by prompting them to cope with it. When anxiety becomes excessive, it may fall under the classification of an anxiety disorder.[5]"
===================================================================
The above is the wiki def of anxiety. Whether something is TMS or anxiety, to me seems to be a tautological argument--which came first the chicken or the egg? The symptom affective or psychogenic, is caused by tension, stress, anxiety which to me are synonymous. To me they're all the same. In Dr. Sarno's original acronym, the "T" in TMS stood for "tension". More recently he changed it to THE MINDBODY SYNDROME. Anxiety is a reaction to stressful life situations--see the Rahe/Holmes list for the situations.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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