| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 08:54:08
Doing an informal survey here, on the MINDBODY continuum, do you consider your symptom to be more physical or psychosomatic? For example, my most debilitating symptom, my "arthritic" right hip, I consider to be physical rather than TMS-psychosomatic. But, I've "cured" myself of numerous other "injuries" through TMS "psycho" thinking.
So, for purposes of this survey would you categorize yourself as a PSYCHO or a PHYSIO? I put myself into the PSYCHO category for sure.
Where do you stand (or lie)?--PSYCHO or PHYSIO? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| balto |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 15:28:06
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
I mean let's say work for example causes you to be tensed up for 5 things happening at once. You develop some indication that your back is stiff and if you were to bend you know that would aggrevate the symptom not bc you think you have something wrong with your back, but you know that bc of the oxygen debit or whatever to that muscle, moving it at that time will naturally hurt more. What I have been doing in this situation, is just avoid bending at that point until the things settle down, or I calm myself down, where my back is not so stiff anymore, where I can easily bend. What I'm asking, is when the people who recovered completely encountered this situation, did they go ahead and just bend anyway or did they do what I have been doing lately.
My tolerance to pain is pretty high compare to others. I once had a tooth filling without getting numb. So usually the pain don't bother me much. It is the thought that the pain is signaling to me there is something wrong or something will be wrong or get worse that I have to overcome. Those fear thoughts came automaticly so I have to constantly be aware of it and have to reason with myself that they are wrong thoughts and there is nothing I have to be affraid of. After you're aware of those thoughts and dismissed them long enough, often enought it will become a natural thing to do. It will become a habit, a defensive habit against irrational fear.
So I would just do whatever I want to do as long as I can take the pain and stop when the pain is more than I can handle. And while doing that I always observe my thought and dismiss all those negative thoughts that I caught my brain allowed in.
Automatic negative thoughts came from prolong stress and uninterupted fear. Feed your brain with realistic thoughts, with positive thoughts. Do it convincingly and believe in it, do it often enough then automatic positive thought will become the norm for you and you will be free of pain. |
| Plantweed |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 08:59:34
Yeah, I don't want to sound like Hillbilly is a guru or messiah or something, it's just his posts sort of unlocked a key for me, that's all, contrary to many other well-meaning folks here who seemed like they were running in place.
GET OUTSIDE AND STOP WORRYING!  |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 08:32:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
What I'm asking, is when the people who recovered completely encountered this situation, did they go ahead and just bend anyway or did they do what I have been doing lately.
I bended anyway. About 15 years ago I had excruciating back-pain, my tennis coach sent me to his chiro who he said was "really a kinesiologist", therefore the real deal. After taking an x-ray, mistaking my left testicle for a tumor, taking another x-ray, he dx'ed me with L-4/L-5 pinched nerve. I later showed the x-ray to a buddy of mine who was a personal trainer, and he said my back looked very strong and I had good spaces between my vertebrae.
I attended a three day Yoga back-bending workshop, figuring this would make or break my back. For three days, I did every conceivable back-bend, numerous times, all day with NO problems. The more I bent my back, the better it felt. After that weekend workshop, I have absolutely NO doubts about the strength of my back to this day.
I think the vast majority of people who read x-rays, have NO idea what they are doing in regards to things like arthritis, joint and spinal stuff that is really TMS. They are fishing for a DX and will tell you something that sounds right by today's folk medicine. Because they are wearing a white coat, we believe them. If it's a chiro it will be your spine, a neurologist will tell you it's pinched nerves, a surgeon will say you need nips, tucks and new parts, a barber will say you need a hair-cut.
Nocebos are more powerful than placebos. This week two yoga teachers, who didn't know me at all, layed a bunch of nocebos on me, I just ignored. They're being overly cautious because they are afraid of being sued and losing their job at the yoga studio, or repeating old yoga wives tales.
Hope that helps, JUST DO IT!
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 07:56:36
Hello again,
I just wanted to point out that I did not devise, author, or even orchestrate my own recovery. I borrowed and stole from others. Back-2-it is quite right to point out that Sarno does what Weekes, Low & others do not, and that is point out pervasive pain as being related to emotional states rather than structural anomalies. In this sense, he puts TMS (I refer to pain as TMS, like I refer to persistent diarrhea as IBS) under the rubric of anxiety-related symptoms and maladies. That was his contribution to my recovery as well, and I should point that out even while disagreeing with his explanation of the psychology and treatment of the disorder.
So there is no Hillbilly Plan for Anxiety Recovery. Mine was a fits and starts, prescribed list of duties that had to be carried out in order to lead a responsible life. Until that time, I had been waiting to feel better to get on with things, but all the while it was the fact that I wasn't getting on with things that was causing the delay in feeling better. Even if you live alone in a cave, you are a social being, and the people with whom you interact are reliant upon you, and you are reliant upon you to accomplish daily tasks in a way that sustains a self-worth in your psyche. So if you suspect that you are dealing with a condition that is psychosomatic, the best advice I can give is to stop making room for your worries in your routine and get things done. You'll feel better immediately because the worries won't stack up from the undone tasks.
I think it is also important to note that none of the doctors or psychologists or gurus out there writing and lecturing about this stuff, nor me or anyone else posting anonymously in these forums has ever cured a single person. The cure comes entirely from the patient, and the biggest step to curing yourself is, ironically, getting out of the way of your body's natural tendency to attain homeostasis, a balanced state of body and mind. That is the definition of the cure, regaining balance. Occasionally you will feel the effects of getting unbalanced along the way, but without chronic rumination, the situation will pass like the seasons in nature, and you will regain your normal health.
All the best to all of you!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 16:40:37
I mean let's say work for example causes you to be tensed up for 5 things happening at once. You develop some indication that your back is stiff and if you were to bend you know that would aggrevate the symptom not bc you think you have something wrong with your back, but you know that bc of the oxygen debit or whatever to that muscle, moving it at that time will naturally hurt more. What I have been doing in this situation, is just avoid bending at that point until the things settle down, or I calm myself down, where my back is not so stiff anymore, where I can easily bend. What I'm asking, is when the people who recovered completely encountered this situation, did they go ahead and just bend anyway or did they do what I have been doing lately. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 13:17:53
Ace can you please be more specific as to what sport, exercise or activity you wish to do and for what duration?
Thanks |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 12:03:25
Thanks Guys, I appreciate all your input. Tell me if this is the wrong way to do it. Lets say I'm stressed out for some reason and I have some pain. Is it important first to calm yourself down and get rid of the symptoms (or most of them) first before embarking on some strenous activity with the painful area? I have been kind of doing this, but I wanted to see from the ones that completely recovered if this is what they did or if on the opposite end, one should not restrict under any circumstance. I am not afraid to do anything, but in times were the pain/ stressful situation is bad, I felt not doing anything strenous at that time, might help the process of calming your nervous system. Thanks again for helping me out in advance |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 08:37:51
Paul David, the author of the book mentioned below, writes: "The trouble with anxiety is fears begin to build and this is why it is so important to have a better understanding and an explanation of why you feel like you do. In my case the more I understood the easier things got. I also learnt that I had been doing everything wrong. I was fighting my symptoms, I was anxious because I was anxious, I was running away from how I felt, everything I was doing was just adding to my feelings of anxiety. I was spending every day questioning how I felt, thrashing my mind, because I just did not understand why I felt like I did and having no idea how to make myself feel better. Every day just seemed like a daily battle with myself. When we don't understand why we feel like we do, we have nothing left to do but to try and figure it all out ourselves. This is the reason we feel unable to detach ourselves from our thoughts and how we feel; the constant thinking eventually tires our mind and is the reason we feel so emotionally spent and fatigued." (Source: http://www.anxietynomore.co.uk/)
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
For anyone interested in doing exactly as balto and I have to recover, please read Paul David's book, "At Last A Life." In that book he chronicles his struggle with panic and fear and nervous symptoms (which I strongly hold are exactly what TMS is) and how he used the knowledge he gained from reading Claire Weekes' book Hope and Help For Your Nerves in order to get past his 8-yr-long struggle to live beyond the bounds of his house. He talks about the many doctor visits that showed nothing out of the ordinary, ruminating about ever being cured, and many other experiences inside his head that caused him to cower inside his house and hope for the pains and nervous attacks to go away.
The only thing that worked for him was to go back and live fearlessly as before, and although it took a while for his system to calm after years of mental and physical conditioning, he persevered and won his freedom. I did the same. Balto did as well. You can too. Get to it!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
| balto |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 07:22:17
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Last question for Balto and Hillbilly,
So is the treatment a way becoming more at peace and calming down and comfortable or more a sense of strength and fight and not letting the symptoms bother you? I asked this before but I really didn't understand from the responses which one it was? I may get the answer by just reading the books, but to me this is one thing i have been pondering and am not totally sure of.
Hi Ace1,
I didn't fight it. I approached it with peace and calmness. When I have symptoms I just slowed my thinking down and observe my symptoms. I acknowledged that it is there and then I accepted the fact that it will be there for a while. I think of it like an itch on my back, a pimple on my face, a running nose I am having. Nothing dangerous, nothing long term. It could be intense, scary, and painful but it it benign and temporary and will be gone when my brain can accept it.
Accepting your situation, your symptoms. Don't fight it, don't get angry. also don't forget to be patient, give it some time. Impatient will feed your pain, your symptoms.
Acceptance is a powerful antidose to stress. The old school desert muslims always face their hardship with the saying: "it is the will of Allah". The hindu in India accepted their fate because they believed in karma. They believed in cause and effect. They believe they did something bad in their last life and now they're paying for it. So they try to be good in this life and accept their fate. The buddhists try to live in the moment. Accept it and do their best to deal with the situation at hand in a positive way. Look at this blog post from someone live in Thailand about how people deal with the flood there: http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2011/09/ubon-ratchathani-floods-2011-thailand.html and compare that to how people deal with Katrina a few years back in the US. Can you still have a smile on your face if you're in the same situation?
You don't have to be religious. Just be more acceptance of your situation. The symptoms is there. So be it. Get busy with your kids, your spouse, your friends, your hobbies.
It is not the situation. It is how you think of the situation. |
| Plantweed |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 07:09:19
Hi, Tom. For me, it was Hillbilly's posts that made me realize I needed to break the obsession. His theory that the chronic condition is merely an overactive nervous system that's fed by our fears, and not some murky, hidden thoughts from the subconscious, seemed simpler and more believable. It just made sense. I went from obsessing on the pain and what I could and couldn't do, to becoming obsessed with Sarno's approach, constantly doing mental gymnastics and going around in circles, getting nowhere really. I just needed to CHILL OUT. I just stopped feeding the monster. I forced myself to do things I was nervous about. I'd wonder what exactly my avoidance behaviors were and I'd confront them. Afraid of heights? Go zip-lining. Can't stand musclehead gym rats? Work out in and amongst them. Afraid of looking like a fool? Dance at every wedding you go to. Little stuff like that.
To win, stop thinking about it, stop worrying about it, just LIVE and you will get better.  |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 23:10:30
Good post Back2-It, well thought out and articulated. Thanks for the kind words, glad you are better.
Cheers
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 14:04:14
Here is where Sarno really helped me:
1. He provided knowledge about the spine.
Without this, I would have thought that my disc herniation was a sentence to being disabled for the rest of my life.Other doctors
and medical providers were no help, in that they literally were afraid of working with me or touching me, for fear of paralyzing me.
Here is where Weekes helped me:
I have anxiety bad. But I did not recognize exactly what long term stress and anxiety does to a body. She provided keys to getting through anxiety, but did not provide concrete information on spines. And since so many think they have permanent spine damage, it is only a part of the story.
Here is where Dale Carnegie helped me:
Get on with life and be hopeful.
I examined the things I had to change in my life that could be changed and I have been doing it. This helps.
My reason for not having an eight week cure stems from working out what exactly "could" be wrong with me, as my main area of problem was my abdomen. I had to work through the thoracic disc thing, then possible nerve damage from surgery, and finally any residual discomfort from an abdominal hernia -- all of which can effect the same small area.
Had I had no surgery, had a clean MRI and had no abdominal hernia, I think my mind would have grasped the ideas of Sarno, Weekes and Carnegie in short order.
Hillbilly's posts have been extremely helpful for me. What resonates is not fearing, getting on with life, and live a hopeful life. Balto's posts are common sense slaps upside the head. Tom and Art have contributed in huge ways to my progress. Darko too.
We are all different. Some things work for one and not for another. I don't think there is any template. But Sarno's advice about the spine is invaluable.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 13:22:19
Hillbilly, sorry I didn't get your intent right, another case of my reading skills and subconscious imitating life. We see what we want to see--probably a good reason many miss Dr. Sarno's message.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 13:14:45
Thanks for the feedback Plantweed and its nice for you to check in with your success story. I have a question for you, how does Hillbilly's program differ from the Good Doctor's? Many here who have detracted from Dr. Sarno did so because they said his theory was too simple and had no scientific clinical proof. I'm always one for the K.I.S.S principle, what exactly is the program that worked for you on Hillbilly's recommendation? If you could outline it it would be greatly appreciated by many here I'm sure.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| Plantweed |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 12:25:43
Hi folks, I haven't posted on here in a long time (since I didn't have to!); you can read my story by going back through my posts, but I just want to quickly dart in and say that Hillbilly's posts were the breakthrough for me. I was definitely over-thinking it for a long time, and he boiled it down to a nice, practical technique. I thank Sarno for pointing me in the right direction, but I think it's simpler than he says. It's merely an over-active nervous system in fight or flight mode that's being recharged constantly be a panicked "what if." Stop worrying about your symptoms and they will deflate like a party balloon. I had such agonizing back spasms and daily stiffness and discomfort I turned into a miserable wretch, for years. Finally I got sick of it and said I'm going to stop babying my back and I'll do the most physically stressful thing I can think of: Iyengar yoga. It's been two years now. The physical effects have been great, but they're a side benefit to confronting my fear of hurting my back. Now I don't even think of it. If I do yardwork all day I'll have some soreness, I take an Aleve and forget about it, back to normal the next day. I lift weights, spent 5 days riding a motorcycle all day each day through Canada, sleep on couches or the floor or wherever, stand for hours on end, who cares?! Good luck to everyone, chin up... |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 11:30:13
Tom,
Missed your reply. Thanks. And if you look at what I wrote I didn't say all people aren't getting better. Some are, some aren't. It is the aren'ts that I'm after. Cheers!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 10:40:22
Ace,
Read and you will be directed as to the approach to take. I agree with Balto, that peace and less rigidity is going to win over fighting yourself. I have a tendency to go balz out for everything, but I ran into a stone wall using that approach in the first two weeks or so. Pick your path once you understand.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:21:02
Last question for Balto and Hillbilly,
So is the treatment a way becoming more at peace and calming down and comfortable or more a sense of strength and fight and not letting the symptoms bother you? I asked this before but I really didn't understand from the responses which one it was? I may get the answer by just reading the books, but to me this is one thing i have been pondering and am not totally sure of. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:07:02
Ace,
Out of pain mostly in six weeks. Fully recovered after eight. But there were many barriers that remained to living a full life that I confronted and conquered. I was once a frightened and pathetic public speaker. Now I can talk in front of people comfortably. I decided I was going to take things on that before I would've avoided. I coach basketball now, and one of my mantras is to motivate my kids to overcome their insecurities and rise above their imagined limits on and off the court. It's an awesome thing to watch and be a part of. Don't ever stop searching for fulfillment. Fear is real, but the boundaries it creates are not. See for yourself.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:02:13
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
Tom,
Simple answer: Because people who post here aren't getting better. That's it. That's all. Nothing else to add. My work here is done.....for now.
I appreciate your answer Hillbilly and that explains it, I honestly wasn't baiting you, I just didn't understand where you were coming from or why you were bothering. I have a copy of one of Claire Weekes' books and hope to get to it before I die but there are just so many hours in the day. The Good Doctor resonated for me the first time I cracked one of his books. It's not the answer to every ailment but does work for about 80% of what ails man.
I must disagree with you about judging the Good Doctor's success by the "people who post here". You are not giving him credit for all the "Success Stories" of those who have been "cured" and are now leading productive lives with the valuable tool of TMS in their medicine cabinets. I've personally overcome numerous issues using Dr. Sarno's theory. I just got over a "frozen shoulder" that many would have spent thousands of dollars on for useless treatments or surgeries. I have twinges of pain almost on a daily basis on the tennis court that I shake-off as TMS and they evaporate almost instantaneously.
I'm here because I've always been interested in the MINDBODY and feel TMS is on the cutting edge of health, yoking the present with the past. Some here probably feel as I do, some may be hypochondriacs, some may have tougher goes of it than I due to complexities of life situations in their past and/or present. If you look at the "Members" list in the header above you will see hundreds who have come and gone and been "cured", helped and "taught how to fish" at this site. Therefore I must strongly disagree with your premise that no one is healed here.
I think your terminology of "shilling" is a bit of hyperbole. This site takes no money and thanks to Dave, runs in a very pure unmoderated manner. As far as I know, the Good Doctor has never done a book tour, nor tried to take his theory to "market". He is 88 years old and continues going to his office and treating his patients as he always has. He practices in quiet anonymity but hopefully will receive the Noble Prize for his invaluable contribution to humanity someday soon and not posthumously. He writes a book about every ten years updating his theory. I will take a look at Claire Weekes someday to see how her thoughts differ from Dr. Sarno's. For my simple mind, TMS is all I need to sort out the wheat from the chaff of dis-ease.
Good luck on your healing path Hillbilly,
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
|
|
