| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| theghost |
Posted - 09/15/2011 : 06:55:01
I actually have another issue to put up for discussion.
I started my road to recovery about two or three weeks ago, using the tms workbook. I'm starting to feel a lot better, but I'm having some problems at night.
I was prescribed a mouth guard (nti) device by a dentist. I've failed split therapy 3 times in the past because I cannot sleep with the device in. The device is helping me by taking the stress off of the muscle, but I am waking feeling like I haven't gotten any sleep at all after like 8 hours of sleep. It's messing with my mood and I am crying all the time.
I didn't wear the splint last night and I felt like I slept better than I have in a very long time, but I still feel like I got hit by a bus, and my jaw is sore this morning.
It would seem to me that I have a choice. Wear the splint and have the jaw heal but don't get any sleep, or don't wear it and get the sleep and have a great attitude and painful jaw.
I'm looking for any advice you guys can give me. I've been told NTI devices are life savers by some and that they will ruin my teeth and jaw by others.
I just need to start feeling good about my choices so I can stay on track with my recovery.
Any input is very much appreciated. I'm starting to feel better, but I am not there yet by any means.
Thank you all in advance. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| theghost |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 07:12:33
I just got back from the orthodontist. He is the most honest doctor (aside from my dentist) that I've dealt with in this whole thing. He told me that my stress is probably the biggest factor to this. He told me that I have a jaw deformity, and fixing what's wrong will probably require a very expensive surgery and years of braces, and he said that the risks are probably not worth it. He told me that those mouthguards/nti devices are crap and that I should stop wearing them immediately.
I'm a little upset that the first one I had completely ruined my teeth, but that's the price that I pay I guess. I guess it will always be a reminder to me not to let my TMS take a year of my life ever again.
I called and cancelled all of my doctor appointments. I will continue to go to physical therapy because the exercises feel great and are helping me. I will be moving my massage therapy to once a month or possibly cancelling it outright. I'm done with all of this.
Time to start living. |
| theghost |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 14:15:03
Guys, thank you so much for this information. I have to reread after I come back from my physical therapy session. The exercise I do there is the only thing that is even remotely helping me. I had a bad weekend. I had a tooth crack from my grinding. I want to have the proper time to let all of this info sink in. Thanks so much. :) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 06:58:51
Here's a link to some "mouth guard" TMS oldies but goodies from a quick "SEARCH" here, hope they help your mind, mouth and purse:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3132&SearchTerms=mouth,gard
You will find many other threads on "mouth guards" and dental stuff with a "SEARCH".
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| Cath |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 04:58:00
Wow! Thanks Wavy Soul. This really gives me hope of making a recovery if I stick to Sarno's philosophy. It would be like all my Christmases coming at once if I woke up one morning to find my pain had gone. I do worry though that after 4 years this is pretty deep-rooted. You see, there I go again, "worrying". Must really try to become fearless as you describe.
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 00:27:51
I'm the extreme case of realizing TMJ was really TMS - it's somewhere in here if you care to search. I had a level of TMJ that was quite dramatic after dentistry on 16 teeth. Needed Vicodin to not be screaming, for weeks.
Dentists prescribed all kinds of horrible devices for my mouth that I couldn't wear, or made it worse, and suggested a$7K one was necessary.
Then I had to teach a weeklong seminar at a retreat center, and one of my main subjects was... TMS!! (yes, really!). And I was like an invalid - couldn't eat solids and couldn't survive long without meds, so I just used myself as an example, and told what I was angry about, as far as I could discern. Started scoffing at it and declaring it was just TMS even as the pain continued. The day after I got home, the pain disappeared NEVER TO RETURN.
I often think about that I about the strange circumstance in which, with the worst TMS of my life, I put myself in a situation to have to call it TMS, and by doing that every day for a week, it finally put its tail between its legs and slunk off.
Makes me feel we should have some kind of 12-Step-type meetings - I like "Symptom Anon."
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Cath |
Posted - 10/08/2011 : 09:33:14
Hi Ghost. I do a lot of stretching, especially of my jaw, neck and shoulders, which is painful, but has given me back my mobility. After my mystery fever I had a frozen shoulder on my worst side. Don't know if you have one side which is worse than the other? I have tried to stop this stretching, because Sarno recommends cessation of all physical therapy and the stretching is part of my myofascial release therapy, but I am worse if I don't keep it up. I used to be very fit and was a long distance runner for a lot of years, but wouldn't attempt to run now. Bouncing of any kind is definitely out for me.
I have tried many therapies: chiropractor, kinesiology, physiotherapy, osteopathy and the mouth guards given to me by my Dentist ( I also have a slight malocclusion), and have endlessly trawled the Internet for information and bought several books about the physical side of TMJ. I could tell you the names of all the muscles in the face that are affected and which nerves. But upon reading Sarno's books, I realize that I have made my problem worse by focusing on these physical symptoms and by constantly worrying about them. Extreme tension and anxiety did begin my tension headaches, but I have made my problems worse by doggedly pursuing a solution, although it was severity of the pain that made me focus so single-mindedly on this mission.
Don't worry too much about your open bite, mine disappeared quite quickly when I stopped using my mouthguard. I figured that I had managed well enough for the previous 49 years without it and that there was no reason why I should need it now.
I do a lot of deep breathing techniques which help to relax the muscles and listening to music is also helpful. I have been drawing again, which actually helps me to block out the pain, but this is done in a comfortable chair on a board on my knee and not for too long at a time.
Sarno explains that TMS affects the postural muscles and these are the ones that are particiularly affected by TMJ in the neck and shoulders, but I have tried to improve my posture and forcing it doesn't work either, just makes it worse.
So it's time for me to to explore my emotions, which undoubtedly got me into this mess in the first place. I have had a few very insightful moments just by journalling, which incidentally I did think I may have a problem with, as it has been difficult to write in the past (head bent over position), but find that I do relax into it after a few minutes. So this has helped me to realize that it may be all pre-conditioning, ie relating pain to certain actions. Some of which are very hard to get out of, I still find it very difficult to send a text message on my phone, and sitting at my laptop fills me with dread.
I hope some of this is helpful Ghost, and I'm crossing fingers and toes and any other of my extremities that Dr Sarno is our saviour.
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| theghost |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 12:51:19
Cath, just out of curiosity, how often do you exercise? I've been told that lack of exercise in my upper back/neck area is a big part of my problem, along with stress. I also have malocclusion. They're telling me I might have to get braces, because the mouth guards have messed my teeth up. I am also beginning to get an open bite, which really sucks, because I look like an idiot.
What was that old nursery rhyme?
There was an old lady who swallowed a cow.
I don't know how she swallowed a cow.
She swallowed the cow to catch the dog.
She swallowed the dog, to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed the fly
I guess she'll die.
^ this is what TMS does to you if you don't take the bull by the horns so to speak. If I could just grasp that concept, I think I'd be okay. |
| Cath |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 05:27:52
My TMS started out as tension headaches and tinnitus 4 years ago which were daily and as such were diagnosed as chronic. My neurologist sent me to the TMJ clinic and they also told me that I had TMJ. My mouth started to close up and I couldn't eat anything hard or chewy. After 6 months of cognitive behavior therapy (which incidentally didn't work for me, but only made oother muscles tense and created further problems) and not being able to do my favorite things, as you describe, ie drawing, writing, working on my laptop, or even just reading a book, I went to see a jaw specialist, who told me that while there was essentially nothing wrong with my jaw joint he would give me a steroid injection into the joint and do some manipulation under anesthetic, which should solve my problem. By this time I could only open my mouth to one finger width wide. It was the worst decision of my life - after the minor op my pain escalated, I contracted some mystery infection and had a high fever for 2 weeks. My whole head and face felt on fire. I slowly recovered, but still had excruciating jaw, neck and shoulder pain. I then tried miuthguards to try to relax the muscles in my jaw which just made the neurological pain worse and I ended up with an open bite.
My next step was to throw away the mouth guards, which actually was a good decision and some of my pain subsided. I began John Barnes Myofacial Release with a wonderful gentle therapist, who helped me back to some sort of recovery and I can now open my mouth to almost 4 finger widths wide and eat most things apart from very hard food. But my neurological pain has never gone, and eventually spread down my back to my hips. My doctor diagnosed me with fibromyalgia earlier on this year. My Physiotherapist told me about Dr Sarno and TMS and I read his books. Everything in them pointed my symptoms to TMS and I have been journalling for 2 months now.
I can't believe that what started out as tension headaches escalated into such a monster, which is how I view my pain. I do sympathize with you Ghost, TMJ is not easy to deal with and the more anxious you become, the worse it gets. I try to relax as much as I can, but it's not easy, as the pain is always there. I am hoping like you must be that Dr Sarno's philosophy works for me. I also hope that my story prevents you from undergoing any unnecessary treatment, but we are all different and what works for some doesn't for others.
I'm sorry if this is a little incomprehensible in parts, but I still can't sit at a computer to type, so have to use one finger on my iPad. I don't know what it is about that head bent over a book or desk position, but it immediately makes the pain worse.
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| theghost |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 11:02:49
I think this was TMS when it first started. I'm honestly starting to think I did something to myself by doing all of the "recommended treatments". I'm not sure where to go from here. My dentist has just told me I have a slight malocclusion caused by the bite guard that was given to me. |
| Sarah Jacoba |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 00:05:51
TMJ was my first TMS symptom. I became convinced the treatment and the philosophy behind it was a sham. after 9 months of excruciating jaw and facial pain, my jaw pain disappeared completely overnight. why? because I stopped treatment and TMS moved the pain into my shoulders and arms instead (ironic). But TMJ is TMS, plain and simple!
--Sarah Hyacinth Jacoba
"When dream and day unite" |
| theghost |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 12:00:31
quote:
You mention the position of your neck possibly causing your pain - but this is taking a physical/structural approach. You also said something about the things that you enjoy, things that could distract you are actually causing the pain. I don't think this is some awful coincidence. Something to ponder.
I agree that this is not coincidence. My body is trying to keep me from enjoying myself because I feel guilty about something. What, I have no idea. Maybe that I shouldn't be doing things that are fun, maybe that I should be cleaning the house, that I should be doing something productive. I wish my gosh-darned body and mind would stop "should"ing me! >:( |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 10:50:01
Oddly enough I too suffer pain and weakness when I put a pen in hand and start to write. My arm and shoulder sometimes hurt but mainly feel weak. I fight it and write anyway. The pen keeps slipping out of my hand. My handwriting is practically illegible. Even I can't read my own writing sometimes. There is loads written about RSI/TMS but people tend to have problems typing. I can type til the cows come home. I work in a listening profession. I would like to take notes sometimes to remember things. I think I have compensated by honing my recall skills. I have to type up notes after a meeting and am pretty good remembering details. I have journalled about this writing thing but don't know what's going on. And yes i struggled with a pen and paper to get these thoughts down. Could be something deep in my unconscious. It's definitely TMS because I sew, sometimes by hand. No problems handling a threaded needle. This is a very fine motor skill and if there was something physical going on sewing would be out of the question.
You mention the position of your neck possibly causing your pain - but this is taking a physical/structural approach. You also said something about the things that you enjoy, things that could distract you are actually causing the pain. I don't think this is some awful coincidence. Something to ponder. |
| theghost |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 06:29:16
To get my mind off of the symptoms, hm... what can I do? That's a good question.
The things that keep my mind off of it are the things that hurt me. And that's the part that is killing me. I am a comic book artist and I also sing. The TMJ is trying to take that away from me. I also enjoy playing video games. When I sit to play video games, my shoulder hurts, my jaw hurts, etc.
I also enjoy writing, and my arm/shoulder kill me when I type.
I force myself to work on my comic even though it hurts like hell. It doesn't seem to get any better, but at least I put a comic out a month.
My responses are becoming pavlovian at this point. I put the pencil in my hand to draw, and the shoulder/jaw start hurting. It has something to do with how I'm bending my neck, I think.
Does anyone know any helpful neck exercises?
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| Bugbear |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 16:09:50
When your brain says - this is going to like the last time - answer back. It is not like the last time because before you believed yourself to have a physical condition. Now you are aware that it is your current stressors that's bringing it on. You are then one up on your brain. I know it sounds naff but after years of migraine headaches I sometimes catch myself thinking that I'll never beat this Beast. It's easy to get defeatist when you are in the midst of a chronic attack. But mostly I just ride it out and not allow myself to get obsessed with it. I look for distractions. When the migraines first started decades ago I was never one to lie in bed. I preferred sitting up, looking out a window or something to take my mind off the pain. It didn't seem as bad then. What can you do to relax, take your mind off your TMS symptoms? |
| theghost |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 15:53:26
You're right. The fear is debilitating. I'm going to get through it, but I slip back sometimes. it's not an overnight sensation. I've been through this several times in the past, and all the times were exactly the same. They were all brought on by an extremely stressful event. Turning it off is the hardest part, but I've done it before, I have to learn how to do it again.
I think it's important that I'm making connections with this new stuff and the stuff in the past... But what to do once I make those connections, that's a different story.
I like food, and it's absolutely killing me that I can't eat my favorite foods. I'm afraid I'll never eat them again. There's that fear again.
Does anyone have any advice on how to not have such a strong fear response? (aside from reading sarno's books, already doing that) The minute I have a weird ache or pain, my brain says "This is going to be just like the last time. this is going to be chronic". I"m so afraid of getting a long term illness again that my body makes it so.
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| Javizy |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 11:14:47
quote:
Originally posted by theghost
it's scaring me.
This is what you need to overcome ASAP. Fear elicits a stress response, and it won't just make your physical symptoms worse, it destabilises your brain chemistry so that you begin to feel increasingly more anxious and get stuck in a vicious cycle that leads to worse and worse suffering. |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 10:22:01
Hi Ghost, I am sorry to hear about all the stress you have experienced recently. It isn't being helped by medical professionals either. The bad news is until you accept that TMJ is just TMS in one of it's many guises, the medical profession is there to look for structural explanations and your anxiety/fear is feeding the physical pain, this may not get resolved. The good news is you apparently have doubts about your pain being physical, otherwise you wouldn't be contributing to this forum. You are in good company here. My husband lost his job this week for the fourth time in about ten years. I have been trying my level best to talk to my brain "Do not even think of throwing any symptoms at me!" Even if I really wanted to go for that mouth guard I couldn't afford it anyway. Clouds with silver linings.
What would happen if you chuck your mouth guard in the drawer and forget about it. What do you think is the worst that can happen. Then ask, is this realistic or are you just making assumptions?
I sincerely hope things get better for you. Some events are simply out of our control, like floods and nut jobs driving into floodgates. But you have control of your thoughts. |
| theghost |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 09:22:49
Well, I've been wearing this NTI mouth guard for a month. It has succeeded in not only making the pain worse, but it's starting to give me an open bite. I am starting to get really frustrated by all of this. I'm doing the TMS workbook, and I'm having good days and really bad days. I'm best on the nights when I sleep. I can't sleep with the mouthguard because I pretty much chew on it and eat it all night. I wake up and two of my top teeth feel numb.
I'm starting to just get really frustrated and irritated. I need to stop going to doctors and stop dwelling on it and maybe it will eventually go away. There's always this feeling in the back of my mind that there might actually be something wrong. These incompetent doctors haven't even run any tests on me during this whole process. Not even a single blood test. they just said "you have tmj"... and then started throwing mouth guards at me. That's part of what makes me nervous.
I have a physical therapist and a massage therapist telling me I need to start eating on the right side (i still can't, it's numb and painful from my wisdom tooth surgery 6 months ago) ... and I've got a dentist telling me it's going to take a year for the sensation to feel normal again. I am truly at the end of my rope.
Not to mention the fact that this week I almost got fired from my job, we almost got flooded, and while our flood gates were up a man crashed into them and broke them. :(
anyway, thank you for your help, guys. I appreciate all the responses to this thread. I'm not in a good place right now, but I'm trying very hard to get there. I'm running out of options, and it's scaring me.
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| Javizy |
Posted - 09/16/2011 : 01:08:17
I was wearing a mouth guard until a little over two-weeks ago. If I didn't wear it, I'd wake up with painful front teeth which made me think I was on the way to losing them. I just couldn't be bothered to wear it on my holiday because it's pretty gross to have around and a pain to clean and prepare for use, so I went to sleep without it. Woke up feeling fine and my jaw didn't feel awkwardly misaligned like it sometimes does with the guard. I haven't worn it since.
It didn't just happen like that though. I've been practising de-stressing for a few months now, which has relieved a lot of tension. I also realised I had a habit of tongue-thrusting. Your tongue should touch just in front of your alveolar ridge with light pressure. If it's touching your teeth, or between your teeth right now, you have a problem. Having it in the right place aligns your jaw and lips, and allows you to swallow properly. I've trained it to sit there, and I think that was a big factor in freeing myself from the guard, too. |
| ennio |
Posted - 09/15/2011 : 23:00:42
I used to wear a guard at night--I was diagnosed with TMD--for close to a year. My jaw pain never went away and any improvement was marginal.
Then I discovered TMS and gradually started to get rid of devices including the mouth-guard. I haven't worn it in 6 months and my pain is no worse.
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