| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| joan |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 11:58:59
If one knows that anxiety and drepression is the root of their pain ...What methods would you use to move on..Was a Sarno Patient ..cured myself from back pain have been pain free for four years.at that time I told muself their is nothing wrong woth my back and pain faded away..have facial pain now and also while i had the back pain..would appreciate any advic..I am stuck |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 18:17:30
Oh, and good luck with your shoulder. Keep us updated on that. I hope you can get out and hit regularly soon.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 18:16:23
Thanks Tom! Look forward to reading the book. Will definitely pick it up.
It's funny, I was 4 years varsity captain of my high school team. Played #1 singles and sometimes doubles. But, my game was definitely limited by the mental side of things. Major frustration, temper. (Think McEnroe.) But, unlike John... my temper never improved my game... only sent me spiraling.
Oddly, I became a better player years later when nothing was at stake.
(And the pressure was off.) Maybe it's not that odd. But, I look forward to reading the book. Sounds like it's up my alley, no pun intended. :)
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| art |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 10:14:48
I had frozen shoulder for well over a year. Certain movements were enough to bring tears to my eyes. Nothing made a difference. It's generally been true for me that once I stop worrying about something, it goes away pretty promptly (if it's TMS presumably)...
But this just refused to go away...5 years later, it's still a bit stiff. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 00:44:16
quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
ps - I'm a big tennis fan/player, too Tom. More a fan as of late because of my body conditions. I'm teaching my 5 year old to play, as well. Getting back out on the court regularly is one of the things I look forward to the most about healing.
Good on you Bryan! Five's a good age to get kids started in the game, that's about when Andre got started. In tennis, champions usually come from a family that plays the game.
I am just overcoming a "frozen" left shoulder that has been nagging me for at least three months using TMS methods.
Since you play tennis may I recommend a good tennis book I'm currently reading that's very complementary to TMS. It's Dr. Allen fox's latest book "TENNIS: WINNING THE MENTAL MATCH". It's pure psychology with a tennis overlay.
Here's an interview with it's author:
http://tennisconnected.com/home/2011/01/11/interview-with-dr-allen-fox-on-his-forthcoming-book-tennis-winning-the-mental-match/
Cheers,
tt
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| jjh2go |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 21:11:09
"(Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is currently considered the best non-med method"
Maybe it is considered the best method, but I couldn't disagree more. I didn't have any relief from depression and anxiety until I started seeing a therapist who is trained in psychodynamic psychotherapy, which is very close to what the Sarno therapists used.
Is it only rage that causes TMS? I disagree, and Sarno also mentions this in MBP. Extreme repressed sadness can also cause TMS. This has been a prime repressed emotion for me, and it has a direct connection to my symptoms.
I have found all of the answers to my questions about TMS by looking inward, and studying how my mind and body both react to life situations. Everything I have concluded is based on my own experience, and it doesn't really matter if Sarno said it. I'm just thankful he pointed me in the right direction. |
| art |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 16:49:07
The trouble with my disagreements with Dr. Sarno, is that I have no standing. I didn't go to medical school, much less come up with a brilliant insight that has already helped countless people. If I fail to express the appropriate humility in these discussions, it's purely an oversight.
Having said all that, I'm certain Sarno himself understands that he's come up with an essentially unfalsifiable hypothesis...which from a purely scientific method standpoint means the theory is inherently weak. Which is not necessarily the same thing as saying its false.But consider: Having come to the conclusion that TMS is related to unconscious rage, what in his clinical experience is there to counter that. EVERYONE has anger. Question a patient sufficiently well and he's always going to come up with certain life situations that one could safely say are sufficient to cause rage. And especially since Sarno is positing that the rage in question is unconscious, it's even all that much more impossible to disprove...
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| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 11:10:34
Good points all around, Tom. I know what's happening to me right now is largely because of my mind, not flaws in my body. I feel that understanding THAT this is a fact and it can be reversed is key for all of us. (Neural pathways and all.) I will say that I think some of us are more data-driven than others, though... and knowing the nuts and bolts helps us believe that it is indeed real. I mean, some people are healed by just reading the MBP, which is just fascinating.
Me, I know my brain a bit.. and I'll need more reading, time, understanding and things have to be driven into my stubborn skull. :)
ps - I'm a big tennis fan/player, too Tom. More a fan as of late because of my body conditions. I'm teaching my 5 year old to play, as well. Getting back out on the court regularly is one of the things I look forward to the most about healing.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 09:10:03
quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
I should add in fairness to Sarno... he did, however seem somewhat disinterested in HOW the mind created the physical symptom, only that he was sure that it did. Of course, that is the crux of the matter.
Yes, trying to figure this all out can be another distraction slowing down the "healing". The Good Doctor says the mind is so complex we may never discover the root cause. And, if we do, so what? Will we then be able to purchase a little bottle of stuff, next to the cash register at Seven/Eleven, and all will be right with the world? Our relationships will all be loving and we won't be annoyed by the car double parked, blocking us from driving off into Nirvanaland.
I have no problem accepting the study proving slight oxygen deprivation, on a cellular level, causing physical TMS symptoms. The folklore of modern existence is based on thousands of studies, having much less proof then Dr. Sarno' TMS theory. You believe the studies you want to believe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 08:45:30
I should add in fairness to Sarno... he did, however seem somewhat disinterested in HOW the mind created the physical symptom, only that he was sure that it did. Of course, that is the crux of the matter.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 08:43:44
Art,
EXCELLENT points... and I've even questioned the impeded blood flow concept, myself. It's one of the few things that sounded a bit too simple, or possibly unfounded to me about Sarno's theories. That could be the case in some situations. But, others (say IBS for example) likely involve many more physical mechanisms put in play by the mind, or like you said... some may simply be ONLY in the mind.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| art |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 05:57:55
Bryan,
Al fair points. On the basis of my own experience, along with the 5 years or so I've been hanging out here at the forum reading other peoples stories, I feel pretty sure that Sarno is wrong. For Freud it was all about repressed sexual urges. Sarno is in that psychodynamic mold too, only he switched out sex and replaced it with rage. These are antiquated ideas in my opinion.
I understand his desire to wrap TMS into a tidy explanatory package, even going so far as to come up with the impeded blood flow idea, but I just don't think all that stuff is necessary. It's funny that in the end, he explains TMS pain in purely physical terms (impeded blood flow). Isn't the brain capable of perceiving pain without some bodily explanation? I think it is...
I'm pretty sure that over time the anxiety/stress hypothesis will win out. As to the precise mechanism, perhaps some day they'll figure that out. I hope so.
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| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 23:23:00
quote:
Originally posted by art
I disagree that the connection between anxiety and TMS hasn't often been made. I do it ad nauseum, and so do many others (though perhaps not to the point of nausea as in the case of yours truly. 
Hey Art,
I only meant that it seems to be secondary in consideration to other issues, or at least the majority of folks I see looking into TMS seem to be doing so for reasons more related to specific, physical pain.
Even Sarno called anxiety a "TMS equivalent." So, the very doctor that put the concept out there for mainstream consumption even refers to anxiety as sort of a parallel rather than a direct TMS disorder.
However, I do agree that many people have made the connection... and as I stated, Dr. Schubiner is going to put out what I assume is the first work dealing with TMS/MBS and their direct result in emotional disorders. (Anxiety/Depression.)
I'm just excited for more people to engage in the discussion of TMS being a PRIME cause of anxiety, when anxiety is the major presenting symptom.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| art |
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 20:59:28
I disagree that the connection between anxiety and TMS hasn't often been made. I do it ad nauseum, and so do many others (though perhaps not to the point of nausea as in the case of yours truly.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 19:32:17
If you "Search" the Forum for posts by a member named "Hillbilly", you'll find a lot of discussion on anxiety.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
|
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 19:09:48
Good question, Joan. CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is currently considered the best non-med method. And maybe interpersonal therapy. And mindfulness based cognitive therapy. Personally, nothing works as well as hard core endurance exercise for me. Try that for self-medicating!
It is really a tough question because I have tried just about everything for anxiety, mainly, and while different methods work to some degree, I haven't found the knockout punch. If I could run non-stop 24 hours a day, that would probably be a cure. Otherwise, I mix and match. Maybe that's the problem. What they don't usually tell you when you read these self help books is that you actually have to DO SOMETHING other than simply read the book. Change is hard work and most people don't have the desire or discipline for it. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 16:01:45
Just bumping this thread in hopes to hear some responses.
I'd say anxiety is one of my two major "presenting" symptoms. (Of course, anxiety is a myriad of symptoms for most of us sufferers.)
I still remain shocked that more people haven't connected TMS/MBS to anxiety disorder, and I'm glad Schubiner is going to address it in his book.
Im fact, I'm mainly here at this forum because a friend I've made online essentially freed himself from chronic anxiety partially by using TMS techniques. (He also had some chronic pain.)
Right now, it seems the bulk of the TMS concentration seems to be on back pain and skeletal pain. But, anxiety is a physically 'causeless" disorder in most people, and I believe it is the #1 mental "disorder" in the US. I've heard estimates of up to 18% of adults having anxiety at some point in their life. (Abnormal anxiety.)
Now, are you telling me that 75 years ago.. anxiety disorder was this common? I have a hard time believing that. So, wouldn't this fall into the same category as the "en vogue" nature of things like back pain, TMJ and Fibro?
In other words, it sure seems to me like anxiety should be approached by the TMS community every bit as fervently as back pain issues. Hopefully in time, it will be.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
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