| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 16:49:24
I promised in a very public way to stay off, and I have for a couple of weeks. I'm prepared to have my *ss kicked.
It's symptom related, so hold on.
I cured up my back pain after reading HBP and MBP. The lumps and the soreness went away in my back. I have no restricted movement at all.
This all started in July 2009, three months after a nasty gallbladder removal. I woke up with a heavy feeling on my right side and then I grew more and more anxious and distressed until I was in a really bad state.
I then had an MRI which showed a mid-back protrusion to the left. Notice, not where my symptoms are or have been. Then things really got bad. I was convinced by doctors that I was a rare case and that any movement the wrong way would leave me paralyzed. (I"m not overstating this. I heard it many times). My great chiropractor, whom I had to speak to last week to finally pay off a bill, was literally speechless to find out that I was jogging and biking, etc. He then added that my right-sided pain may never go away and this was as good as I would probably get. How's that for "hope and change"? I told him BS.
I have ALWAYS had pain in the front right side and a very tender area near the scars.
I was massaging this area the other night --dammit because it hurt-- and I get up and see an angry nerve racing out of the scar area and wrapping around my chest. Right where the pain has always been. My pain never "moved" around. But the area of the pain front and side just happened to match up with the same disc levels (BUT AGAIN, ON THE WRONG SIDE), so at first the docs were convinced it was back related.
Now, I've calmed quite a bit since my reading and classes, and I'm jogging and riding my bike on hilly trails and lifting weights, yet the pain in front and to the side remains.
Bottom line: nerves do get trapped in scar tissue; that is a fact. Often abdominal pain is not diagnosed correctly, especially if there is no intra-abdominal cause.
I saw that screaming nerve with my own eyes. It was as big as a thick vein. I remember seeing it before, but whilst in the midst of high anxiety. I was applying some pretty hard pressure the other night.
I've never had any scans done on that area since the surgery, and when you are examined by a doc they always make you lie down. There has been a noticable bulge there since the surgery and even before, since the gallbladder was 3 times normal size and had actually pushed out my gut on the right side. It's really only noticable when I stand.
It all leads to this: real or TMS? Do normal people -- and I don't even know what normal is anymore these last two years -- get nerves jumping out when they massage an area? I don't ever remember that happening.
Thanks.
Sorry to break my promise, but I really need some thoughts here. I have nobody to talk to about this, so you guys are it.
Thanks again.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 11:24:26
Whatever works, g'd luck to you.
Cheers |
| balto |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 08:13:19
Histrionic personality disorder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder |
| lara |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 07:49:20
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
Art,
I've learned a lot on these forums, about anxiety and TMS, etc. Also in reading and in classes. I have, I think-I hope, learned how to recognize the anxiety fears and health anxiety fears and symptoms and to push them back and understand them. I also recognize from my past that I had many TMS/anxiety/ physical symptoms. Never knew until I got here what those weird things were.
The one thing I never did was eliminate the possibility of some type of nerve involvement in the surgery scar tissue in my gut. I was at once diagnosed as having a "back problem" and things took off from there. The front and side pain, the initial cause of my sinking to this state, never went away.
I fear that just like some with other problems or supposed back problems had to eliminate a "structural" defect, I think I may have to eliminate a "structural" problem in that area. If it can even be done. If there is no plausible cause then I can safely assume TMS.
I'm going to think on it for a week or so and decide what to do.
I appreciate everybody's responses, and if any more have any, please feel free. Yes, I have been testy. It's one of my personality defects. I've come a long way, thanks in a big way to the people on this forum. I would probably never have had the courage to jog, bike or do anything without reading about it on here.
Yes, I am bitter against doctors. I don't know, really, if they are all in it for the money, but when they tell you you'll never recover or that you are a freak case (over and over) it got to me. If I practiced the same lack of customer service and "listened" as little as most doctors do to what you are telling them, I would be broker than I already am.
That's why I have to think on even trying to have anything looked at in my scar area. More guessing will be the result, probably.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
Well my chronic pain started after a surgery,and my journey started visiting a combo of doctors ,13 in total ,until i found one that said directly to me ,nerve pain due to scar tissue ,this adorable doctor put me on neurontin that helped but i was still in pain,so he suggested to go and see this acupunturist that he knows and again God bless my dr and acupunturist,i did try TMS approach but sorry guys it just didn't work form me,how would it work if i was having a real problem with scar tissue? i have been working with my doctor,my acupunturist and 2 months ago the acupunturist sent me to this chiropractor ,trust me i was extremely sceptical seeing him but i went and boom all together put me on track ,i am now doing a lot around the house,i am walking 2 miles daily,i do shopping,i go to restaurants ,i am visiting my hair salon again in months! and having my manicures,pedicures etc,i visit family,friends,i even went to the gym yesterday,swam,used the sauna etc,I AM NOW HAVING A LIFE.i can't beleive that 3 months ago i couldn't even sit,walk for more than 20 minutes,bend or go out to have fun.I knnow i still have a long road of recovery but for me TMS,wasn't the answer,at least didn't give me this great sensation of getting my life back.
By the way my chiro uses D.N.F.T and my acupunturist is my savior.
Lara |
| yogaluz |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 20:30:12
Since you've signed off B2I, not sure if you'll read this but sometimes when I'm in the throws of TMS, I remember my grandfather who had a massive gallbladder removal surgery when he was in his 50's. Back then they cut you open from armpit to navel and I would say his scar always looked deep and angry. The man just never slowed down. He told me it was painful at times but he just didn't THINK about it. He went to work, came home and mowed the lawn in the summer and shoveled snow in the winter, and then he would come inside and have a beer and laugh. Was he in constant pain as a result of his surgery? He would never admit to that but sometimes I'd see him hunched over and sweating. I think his secret was that he didn't dwell. And so I'm trying not to dwell and obsess when my gallbladder feels swollen (it actually catches on my ribs!) and sure as f'ing not, the pain goes away and the 'swelling' goes down. This trickery is a bitch but I always try to remember my grandfather and it helps. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 19:57:15
Darko...
quote:
However we are talking about your case specifically......which it is my opinion based on what you have described and been told, that it's not physical. NOW, I could be totally wrong, and I'm ok with that......but why don't you prove me wrong and then you will know for sure what is going on without all the emotion and mental turmoil.
Based on what I was told is that I had a back problem. I DON'T. NEVER DID. Nobody or any doctor has delved into the scar area or my abdomen. They assumed it was referred pain, like siatica in the leg. But as I pointed out the disc pathology was not correct for the symptoms.
I'm in a devil's qaundry because of all the previous doctors and things that weren't covered, not to mention the deductible from the surgery. It all adds up. That's why the money problems.
If the issue is physical, then, yes, you can reach some level of acceptance. It's when you don't know what the hell is going on is when you are in turmoil.
My mental wrestling now is along these lines: do I go further and see if anything is binding up, or not? Do I do what so many have done here and make sure that there is nothing "physically" wrong, or what?
I mean, that's the advice from The Man himself: make sure you're not really broken somewhere, right?
And if there is a physical problem, say the damned nerve is getting yanked this way and that when I walk and stand, then OK. Even if there is squat to do about it, then I'll at least have some kind of peace.
Not even sure there are tests for that sort of thing.
You reach real low points sometimes. I've made life changes I've had to make, and will make more. So whilst I've been living with this torment I've still been living.
So now it's time to go back to my promise and sign off.
Thanks to all. God Bless.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| Darko |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 18:06:08
I agree with Art's last post ( we're making a habit of this mate )
I think it's pretty obvious that you CAN have complications as a result of surgery......hell, a million things can go wrong!
However we are talking about your case specifically......which it is my opinion based on what you have described and been told, that it's not physical. NOW, I could be totally wrong, and I'm ok with that......but why don't you prove me wrong and then you will know for sure what is going on without all the emotion and mental turmoil.
Forget about the issue for a while, you can't do anything about it even if it is physical so why torture yourself. Instead focus on the things YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT. Focus on the parts of your personality which would contribute to TMS, or to the pain if it were to be emotional......you know what they are. Focus on changing the way you think so you don't have the anger, bitterness and money concerns. Address this stuff because it's all you can do RIGHT NOW.....there is no point focusing or trying to work out what is going on with the scar, it seems your going in circles.....it's there...........ACCEPT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make peace with your life situation.....cause no amount of struggle will change it. If you don't like it work at changing it with the right state of mind
Remember you can't push something away from yourself, you can only attract something different. Right now you seem to be pushing.
I have been to hell and back so many times, that all the demons had a surprise birthday party for me last year. The most important thing I can tell you is this. Sometimes the only way out of a situation is to go through it......there is no side door or turning back. You have got to get control of what is happening in your head and pass through this.
The universe is a funny place.....you can run from lessons for a period of time, and then you will be given NO CHOICE. It might not make sense and seems cruel but that's because the mind is playing the victim.
I suggest you focus on the emotional stuff for a while get it sorted out for your own sanity and peace......and if the issue is physical then you'll have a more level and calm head to approach it. If by chance it is physical then there is no point hating and being angry at the very people that might be able to help you....
|
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 12:50:54
Art,
I've learned a lot on these forums, about anxiety and TMS, etc. Also in reading and in classes. I have, I think-I hope, learned how to recognize the anxiety fears and health anxiety fears and symptoms and to push them back and understand them. I also recognize from my past that I had many TMS/anxiety/ physical symptoms. Never knew until I got here what those weird things were.
The one thing I never did was eliminate the possibility of some type of nerve involvement in the surgery scar tissue in my gut. I was at once diagnosed as having a "back problem" and things took off from there. The front and side pain, the initial cause of my sinking to this state, never went away.
I fear that just like some with other problems or supposed back problems had to eliminate a "structural" defect, I think I may have to eliminate a "structural" problem in that area. If it can even be done. If there is no plausible cause then I can safely assume TMS.
I'm going to think on it for a week or so and decide what to do.
I appreciate everybody's responses, and if any more have any, please feel free. Yes, I have been testy. It's one of my personality defects. I've come a long way, thanks in a big way to the people on this forum. I would probably never have had the courage to jog, bike or do anything without reading about it on here.
Yes, I am bitter against doctors. I don't know, really, if they are all in it for the money, but when they tell you you'll never recover or that you are a freak case (over and over) it got to me. If I practiced the same lack of customer service and "listened" as little as most doctors do to what you are telling them, I would be broker than I already am.
That's why I have to think on even trying to have anything looked at in my scar area. More guessing will be the result, probably.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| art |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 09:41:35
'I was only trying to float the idea about whether or not anybody believes that there can be problems from surgical operations, and it seems that the consensus is that there are not'.
If that's the consensus view, then clearly it's wrong.
That said, if you've a certain anxious, hypochondriacal mindset, then you're always going to have physical issues to get panicked about. There are no end to them. You're the one who has to finally draw a line in the sand. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 07:47:28
healing...
quote:
back to it, did you say you were free from your back pain ? the back pain that kept you from walking and standing in one place ?
I have had no REAL back issues, except the ones I was frightened into. My anxiety and fear level hit the top of the charts. As a consequence, my entire back at one time was in spasm. Now all those muscles back there are as smooth as silk. I can bend, run, lift, bike, hike, etc. The only lingering back thing I have is the pain that is referred from whatever has ALWAYS been going on in my surgical area up front. Once the doctors got a hold of that area, a neuro doc pronounced me with a mid-back disc problem after running a safety pin across my derma-line scar area and seeing the skin jump. An MRI proved him right. But the disc was protruding on the WRONG side. It was just an unlucky coincodence, but one that screwed me up mentally. I was on of the 15% of the population that has a disc protruding there. It is and always has been asymptomatic. It took me returning to all activities without any fear to realize how wrong it all was.
Darko....
I know you speak to help, and don't mince words. You say what's on your mind. I was disagreeing with the idea that there can be no complications from surgeries. Negative thoughts are not good. I make no apologies however to telling all doctors to F-themselves. They care about the cash only. I don't care what their modality. The psycho-therapy community is a worse bunch of vultures. They deserve to be given an overdose of their own meds.
I was only trying to float the idea about whether or not anybody believes that there can be problems from surgical operations, and it seems that the consensus is that there are not. That any ongoing pain from them is TMS. When I saw that nerve screeching out of my scar area, which is one big pulpy, mess, and around my back I had to take another look a the situation. I'm on no meds, so I didn't make it up or dream it. If that means I've fallen off the Sarno wagon for the moment so be it. Can't help it.
I appreciate you comments, but I'm in a fix right now, and it's gotten to me.
Art...
I've been battling the negative thoughts. Sometimes it's really hard.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| art |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 06:15:59
"Chill my friend, rise above the situation and observe it and don't allow yourself to get pushed around by the negative thoughts in your head. Hope this helps"
Amen.
|
| Darko |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 23:59:31
B2i,
it seems that I may have rubbed you the wrong way in my earlier post. I never seek to offend anyone....only help. I have a direct and very straight communication style simply cause I don't do fluffy. So sorry if this may have offended you
My aim is to get you to challenge the "rubbish" that is going on in the mind......it's the same for everyone, me included
I feel for you mate, you sound very very frustrated and I really understand....I have been there plenty.
However understand this......your current situation is like a spider web, the more you struggle, and the more the questions, the more entangled you'll become. What are your thoughts that are making you angry, self-pity and hate people? These are the toxic thoughts I always refer to and what is causing you all this excess emotion.....which leads to TMS
In my experience, the mind and ego always get pissed when it's confronted...simply because it wants to be right. It DOES NOT MATTER if you/we are right or wrong....WHO CARES???!!! What does matter is if what is going on in your head is self-supportive!
Does thinking the way you currently do contribute to your long term goal of "pain free"? If so, then it matters not what we say.......you should know you're on the right path and there is no reason for all the "confront"
Chill my friend, rise above the situation and observe it and don't allow yourself to get pushed around by the negative thoughts in your head. Hope this helps
D
|
| healingback |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 23:49:18
back to it, did you say you were free from your back pain ? the back pain that kept you from walking and standing in one place ?
This to shall pass.... |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 21:14:16
I'm afraid I need time to allow myself both self-pity and anger. It may not be helpful, but I'm not a machine. It may not be macho, but i don't give a crap. I'm the one dealing with this every waking minute of every day. Nobody else.
There are no guarantees for anything in this world, none. But I have grown to hate doctors of all stripes. Medicine is called an art, but it's more like shaminism. The great majority know nothing, and, worse, will poison your mind by telling you you will never recover. F- them all. They know squat.
Unfortunately, I can't allow myself to break down in public, and there is nobody who cares if I am in pain or not, but me. I live and I work and function, and then I go home.
At this point I was simply wondering if scars can entrap nerves. It seems that scars can, but maybe not. Maybe that's all TMS too. Maybe I'm making my brain think that it can. Maybe my mind made that nerve jump to the surface of the skin. Who the hell knows?
All I know is that I keep going and I keep making small improvements. I believe I will be pain free some day soon. I'm sorry I have my doubts. I just don't fit into one of the neat autonomic nervous system complaints. I'm not a Lumbar or RSI usual.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| art |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 16:01:10
Everybody has trouble accepting this stuff at times. That's the whole game really
Why is it hard? Because there are no guarantees.
I can guarantee however that anger won't help. It's often the reverse side of self-pity. Perfectly understandable for someone in pain, but not helpful. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 14:31:16
I'm sorry, but I get the impression from some that even though I have had surgery that any pain that possibly resulted from it is still TMS. This is what I interpret others to mean as a personal weakness. In other words, get fully on the Sarno program an that problem will vanish too.
I beat the "back problem", which doctors told me was one fall away from being paralyzed, so I think I developed the right attitude and was not "held back".
I had no control over the surgery and I have had pain there from the get go. Ever go back to a surgeon and ask about their procedure and possible pain? I did. They tell it's perfect and that whatever is bothering you can't be from the procedure. Hell, maybe they are right. Maybe they are wrong. Not a damned soul can tell me.
What I say is F-it to it all. I will overcome this pain just like the other. I will do it regardless of whether some on here think that it is fake or made up or "rubbish" or if I whip my ribs around a bit more it will go away. I will because I've overcome everything else in my life.
Angry? Yeah, angry at the pain. Angry at no explanation. Angry at the dumb ass doctors that got me on the path of back pain because of a side issue.
Don't count me out now just because I'm not in the "gospel". I live with this every waking moment, and I'm overcoming it. Even Jesus had his moment of doubt.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| art |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 14:12:23
"I draw the conclusion that nobody here thinks that surgery can screw up tissue and nerves? And that it is only personal weakness and a failure to understand some point of anxiety or fear or rage that keeps it hurting? No ongoing pain or chronic pain is real, then, beyond what is conjured in the mind? "
This sounds a tad angry. It also shows some mistakes in your thinking as personal weakness as you cal it has nothing to do with recovery. If that's truly indicative of your thought process that might be holding you back right there.
If you've had surgery and have pain that you shouldn't be, then no one here would advise you not to see your surgeon and have it checked out. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 13:53:31
Dave...
quote:
Good post. This highlights the importance of resuming normal physical activity. This sends a powerful message to your unconscious that you do not believe the pain is due to structural issues.
I remember when in the throws of some pretty bad lower back pain, I would do extra leg presses in the gym while in my mind I was saying "f*** you" and "take that!" to the pain. Sounds silly, but it does work . . .
Okay... I have resumed my normal activities... I run, I bike, I walk, I hike, I lift weights. I do all the work around the house, and bend every which way with my formally "bad" back. I do this because I know from reading and Sarno and others that I NEVER HAD A BAD BACK.
Guess what,though, that pain band coming from the scars are still there.
I draw the conclusion that nobody here thinks that surgery can screw up tissue and nerves? And that it is only personal weakness and a failure to understand some point of anxiety or fear or rage that keeps it hurting? No ongoing pain or chronic pain is real, then, beyond what is conjured in the mind?
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| art |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 11:54:50
I liked Wodg's post as well. I do it myself. For me, it's almost a counter-phobic response. It's actually easier sometimes for me to just dive into something, to actively defy it, then to try to passively ignore it.
Speaking only for myself, it's an example of how I can sometimes use fear to my advantage. |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 11:41:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wodg
...I reread Sarno's stuff on the net. The next time after a six hour drive in the work truck I was as stiff as hell and in pain. Instead of taking my time getting out of the work van like I usually did I literally jumped out. I had zero pain and stiffness. I kept this jumping out the truck thing for a while. I also started to slouch in my work chair and also started to lift things the supposedly incorrect way. My pain disappeared quickly.
I also get IT band pain, I solved this by running harder...jumping over logs and stomping my legs down hard with absolute disregard to the health of my legs. The pain disappeared too. My brother got exactly the same thing around the same time. Coincidence...I think not...We both agree it's bull****.
Good post. This highlights the importance of resuming normal physical activity. This sends a powerful message to your unconscious that you do not believe the pain is due to structural issues.
I remember when in the throws of some pretty bad lower back pain, I would do extra leg presses in the gym while in my mind I was saying "f*** you" and "take that!" to the pain. Sounds silly, but it does work . . . |
| Wodg |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 05:19:28
I hurt my back doing heavy squats 18 months ago. I heard a crack and BANG I was in pain. I couldn't sit at my desk at work so started to kneel. I kept my back straight and quit all sports including mountain bike racing. It was funny I had really started to enjoy my life found all these new sports to do and this pain stopped everything.
I would take about 2 minutes to get out of my work truck after a long drive because I was so stiff and in pain.
I went to a chiropracter and he told me I would have to live with this for the rest of my life. I would have to manage it he said. I said stuff that!
I reread Sarno's stuff on the net. The next time after a six hour drive in the work truck I was as stiff as hell and in pain. Instead of taking my time getting out of the work van like I usually did I literally jumped out. I had zero pain and stiffness. I kept this jumping out the truck thing for a while. I also started to slouch in my work chair and also started to lift things the supposedly incorrect way. My pain disappeared quickly.
I also get IT band pain, I solved this by running harder...jumping over logs and stomping my legs down hard with absolute disregard to the health of my legs. The pain disappeared too. My brother got exactly the same thing around the same time. Coincidence...I think not...We both agree it's bull****. |
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