| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| shannclapp |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 10:22:03
AGHHHH feel insane. Thought I was getting somewhere and then last night i start getting a tingling in my throat and mouth. Convinced it is a nerve problem, which I am always so safraid of cause of my facial pain. However no Dr ever thought it was anything but an atypical pain. Why does this beast keep giving me such alarming symptoms? They change to really try adn convince me there is soemthing wrong in this area of my head/mouth. cnat it move to my foot LOL>.
I could literally feel the fear go threw my body when it happened. So scary. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 18:25:00
quote:
Originally posted by art
All that said, I'm as convinced as convinced can be that this whole distraction thing is basically a dog and pony show that gets in the way of recovery for some people. I understand Sarno's desire to come up with a convincing mechanism with respect to why symptoms appear, and another mechanism to explain the pain itself (blood flow), but in my entirely inexpert and unprofessional opinion, I think he's wrong.
Not to be argumentative, but Dr. Sarno doesn't care much about discovering the mechanism that creates TMS symptoms. He has stated that the brain is so complex we may NEVER discover the cause/causes. He just knows his method can work for those who are open to accepting emotions can cause physical or affective symptoms.
For those who are not emotionally ready or capable of accepting his theory, he allows them to keep their pain. He considers it a protective defense mechanism. Offering them protection from emotional pain their subconscious perceives to be worse than the physical.
I have no clue how my computer works or what's inside it, I'm just happy if I don't lose a post, get angry about it and raise my reservoir.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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| quinn |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 12:49:22
My name is Charlotte. I am new but I seem to be making a little headway in just a week. I really like what Art has to say. I am in therapy (cognitive) and a member of AA for 8 years. I really like Arts comments. |
| art |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 14:10:26
I actually agree with the notion that it can cloud the issue for the newcomer, Dave. I do my best to qualify everything I say to a newbie by emphasizing that it's just my opinion re distraction, and that I have no special expertise at all, and that Sarno's theory is actually XYZ.
I tend to bring this issue up especially when someone's struggling with journaling, or feeling like they're delving deep into their emotional issues and not getting better.
All that said, I'm as convinced as convinced can be that this whole distraction thing is basically a dog and pony show that gets in the way of recovery for some people. I understand Sarno's desire to come up with a convincing mechanism with respect to why symptoms appear, and another mechanism to explain the pain itself (blood flow), but in my entirely inexpert and unprofessional opinion, I think he's wrong.
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| Dave |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 11:57:30
My personal belief is that you should adhere to Dr. Sarno's explanation and treatment suggestions, if for no other reason than it has worked on thousands of patients over the past 40 years.
Some people do not like the "distraction" theory and prefer to think in different terms. I believe those who have been working at TMS recovery for some time, are fluent in Dr. Sarno's ideas, and have some successful experience at reducing the symptoms may find a variation that works best for them. TMS recovery is a highly personal journey.
However, I believe those who are just starting out learning the theory are best served by accepting Dr. Sarno's ideas and following his treatment suggestions. Thinking about alternate theories only clouds the issue, and may introduce doubt. Over-analyzing and thinking about TMS in intellectual terms can be counterproductive.
Ultimately, recovery is about modifying our thoughts and behavior. It is not about learning the exact science behind TMS. I believe it is impossible for humans to know or comprehend the exact science. Dr. Sarno's explanation makes sense to me, and to thousands who have been helped by him. But really, it is just a metaphor. Whether the symptoms are a "distraction" or "generalized anxiety disorder" makes absolutely no difference. What we call it makes no difference. What matters is how we treat it. And that treatment is very simple:
1. Repudiate the structual diagnosis
2. Cease all physical treatments
3. Resume normal physical activity as much as possible
4. When aware of the symptoms, shift your thoughts towards "bad" emotions that you may be unknowingly repressing. Be fully honest with yourself. Think about -- and try to feel -- those uncomfortable, forbidden, frightening, embarassing thoughts and feelings that you may be avoiding. Note, it is not important (or possible) to figure out exactly what repressed emotions might be causing the TMS symptoms. This is simply an exercise to recondition your mind to think about and react differently to the symptoms. It is an alternative to focusing on the symptoms, or on the anxiety that builds as you fear that there is something structurally wrong.
That's it, in a nutshell. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. |
| art |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 21:30:00
Susan,
I do not believe that Sarno's distraction theory is needed, He wanted a mechanism to explain psychosomatic pain and with what I take to be his interest in Freud and psychodynamic theories of the mind, came up with the distraction idea.
It's my belief that TMS is basically an anxiety disorder, that is that fear and worry and stress lead to psychosomatic symptoms... and that the process can be directly reversed. An appeal to subconscious processes in my opinion is not needed.
I don't think Dave has any problem with a free exchange of ideas concerning the theoretical underpinnings of TMS. At least, he's never objected.
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 20:32:19
Yes, not only the fear, but far worse; the fear that it, whatever it is, will go on forever. In my case, the forever is always temporary...until the next forever fear. This catastrophizing is of course, hypochondria, or ocd or both. Does it really matter? The crux is fear. Last week I felt like I had tmj and I had thoughts of an aching jaw for eternity. Today, it is elbow pain, which has bothered me off/on for the past few months, which for the first time today, I catastrophized arthritis, though I know that is bogus. A few days ago, slight hip pain. Some pf on/off. Some shoulder pain on/off. Each of these symptoms in turn, and others too, take their turn in the limelight until they are scooted off stage by another. It's a day-to-day challenge, and it seems to me the only way to make progress is to periodically draw lines in the sand and resist the urge to panic. This strategy has actually been paying off of late, though it might not sound like it from the words above. |
| susan828 |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 19:45:19
Shannclapp, I can echo your post. I am always afraid that the pain will never go away and get worse when I get older and what if I am old and helpless and who will help me and if I'm in a nursing home, who will take me to the dentist and what if I can't verbalize anymore or get senile but am in pain. And what if I don't have the money for doctors and dentists and what if I stay this way, no man will ever tolerate this (I am single and not even looking now because who the heck would understand and put up with what he will perceive as neurotic). You're lucky you have a husband. I should have found one when I was younger and less crazy. Not that it's too late (a boyfriend will do, doesn't have to be a husband)...I have a lot of guys pursuing me but they don't "know". They'd probably run for the hills unless they were as understanding as all of you are.
So, all the what ifs, which is the core of anxiety. If we could eliminate those two words, we'd be a lot better off.
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| susan828 |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 19:36:20
You're right on the need to feel afraid or else. This is the question I have posted on here, why, when I am out with friends having a good time, my mind will not leave well enough alone and has to ruin my night? A pain, a symptom starts and I feel doom and gloom. I go into the bathroom to get away, attempt some self-talk which doesn't work and wind up going home, crying in the street, "Why, why am I like this?"
Art, if you believe that just relaxing is the cure, do you believe in Sarno's theory? That pain is a distraction? I haven't been on this board since its inception so don't know if it's supposed to endorse Sarno or if we are free to disagree, so maybe someone can tell me. Also, Art, can you tell me how you relax...is it with self-talk or meditation or relaxation techniques? |
| art |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 16:34:39
The fly in the ointment is we all will eventually get something. We're mortal after all. I just got so exhausted getting some symptom or other, then going through the same old cycle of fear and dread, then deciding it was just more TMS, and sure enough then watching it evaporate....only to start the whole process all over again with the next weird symptom.
Like in AA, I just sort of surrendered. I'm going to die, and fear and worry won't save me. They'll only ruin the precious time left to me.
It's almost as if we worry that if we fail to be afraid, that's when something really terrible will happen, as if fear itself is some sort of talisman.
I'm convinced we all suffer from a primary anxiety disorder. Which is why the cure is simply to learn to relax. I know it can be done because I'm doing it. |
| shannclapp |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 16:06:33
Good question, when I feel the pain I start to worry, I panic because it is all in the same area, and I think uh oh this is it I have something really wrong and I will forever be in this pain. It used to be brain tumor or MS but since I have been tested endlessly I know it is not. But know it is trigeminal nueralgia and I will forever be in pain and/or on meds. Therefore how can i live the life I want or be the mom I want or be the wife or be the person i want to be. I will be like this forever.
wow that was a good question! |
| susan828 |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 16:02:54
Shannclapp, when you worry, can you tell me exactly what goes through your mind? You worry that what will happen? If it's a few things, please tell me. |
| shannclapp |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 15:21:44
I agree Art very very right. I have gotton over other things by treating them as induced by anxiety. But they were more obvious to be anxiety like chest pain, tingling, etc. And they took some time to get over.
I know with this tooth pain I have not stopped worrying (except for my vacation in January at which time it was very minimal, there but minimal and gone some days too). I have to really give it 100% and I am not doing that. So I will LOL. So hard not to worry & be afraid. This is where I struggle, obviously why I still ahve the symptoms.
Thanks everyone. |
| art |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 15:06:53
I've a pretty reliable litmus test when it comes to TMS. If I can honestly say I've stopped worrying about something and it hasn't gone away in a week or two, then it's probably real.
I have to say though that it's never happened.
Of course this is a roundabout way of saying you have to give it a chance, really get in there and have some faith. I mean what the heck. If you've had a certain pain for several months let's say, then it's probably not going to kill you n the next few days, right?
So just stop worrying for a while.. See what happens. You can always go back to worrying about it later if you choose. |
| shannclapp |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 14:51:42
So different teeth hurt?
We do sound like we are in similiar situations, so I agree we can help each other!
I know I have had real tooth pain, this is not it. It is a dull ache in all my upper teeth on one side.
Where in your face does it hurt? Mine is always the same spot.
Have you ever used Capsian (spelled worng) cream for your facial pain? Burns but helps.
In terms of your facial pain and possibly dental have you ever looked at trigger points? I always belived that was the root of my problem and searching abotu them i ended up here. So what casues trigger points? Stress! So I belive this is the right direction. |
| susan828 |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 13:44:38
The pain moves to different areas. It feels kind of sharp, sometimes stabbing, sometimes like someone is taking a knife and stabbing the gum between two teeth. I have to say I have had herpes on the roof of my mouth, very visible. They prescribed Valtrex but I don't like to take things so I just let it run its course.
With shingles (which I DON'T have), there is something called post-herpetic neuralgia. I was told and read also that even with herpes simplex, the nerve is always "on alert" and ready to misfire. This is the explainable part of my pain. My upper molars proximity to my sinuses is the other explanation. Many people's teeth hurt because of this and as you probably know, endodontists are hesitant to perform root canals on people such as us when nothing is seen clinically.
This said, I know that my pains come on during stress. Some people get stomach aches, some headaches and some anything else, in my case, tooth and jaw pain. have had real toothaches. They are persistent, going out of your mind painful, that resulted in root canals. This is not what I feel but when it starts and is hard to differentiate, I freak out.
I hope I/you find a resolution to this. Art talks about fear and worry being such a huge component. I have to conquer this. You sound so much like me, maybe we can help each other.
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| shannclapp |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 08:21:32
Susan, is your pain always in the same spot? What does your tooth pain feel like? Is it alwasy the same teeth or does it vary?
It sucks! I have been to facial pain specialists and gotten no where LOL
Yes well thank God we dont have trigeminal nueralgia, although that is a big fear of mine. |
| susan828 |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 08:17:54
I am in the second week, been there for a few weeks. I know this should be a priority but I wait until the evening, then I'm too tired or don't want to deal with the issues. Avoidance, I know. I have to force myself to do this because living like this is too hard. I went to the dentist yesterday for a cleaning, had x-rays and nothing is seen. I am thinking of taking some supplements. There is a dentist who specializes in orofacial pain and he suggests a few things (he answered an email I wrote to him). Nothing to lose, heals heal nerve damage and just keeps our nerves in good shape. My focusing on it is another story. I know that other people wouldn't give it a second thought.
I see your point about our obsession vs. the cleanliness and germ thing. I read all of your posts and we have a very similar situation. Atypical odontalgia, atypical facial pain. I have had so many consultations over the years, tried Elavil 15 years ago (helped a little) but there is no way I would go on an anti-epileptic drug like Neurontin. It isn't constant, if it were or if it were trigeminal neuralgia, maybe. But not for this. |
| shannclapp |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:12:04
I am not sure I am pretty comfortable with the fact that I have some sort of OCD about my health. I am obsessed with my symptoms, I am not sure it means you are in need of being medicated but I am pretty sure I have some sort of OCD about my body & health. I think mnay of us do. It is just a different obsession as opposed to cleanliness and germs.
Just my opinion.
How many weeks in on the program are you susan?
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| susan828 |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 06:33:24
Art, I haven't tried everything yet. I am trying Schubiner but have been lazy. It's hard to do the part I'm up to (emotionally hard to bring out all the pent up stuff) so I put it off. I am not giving up and would hate to think I have OCD. I hate labels and definitely would not want drug treatment, can't afford cognitive therapy, so I am hoping I'll improve after finishing this program. As always, I respect your input tremendously but what you said is scary...although I see an OCD component in myself (and a lot of us here).The associations with that term (hand washing, the other things that make people nuts) make me upset. |
| art |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 08:25:53
TMS self-treatment may be inadequate in certain cases.. I share these hypochondriacal traits, but I've learned I have a measure of control over them.
If you've tried everything, read all the books etc, and still aren't getting anywhere, I'd suggest focusing on the OCD aspect. That CAN be treated successfully.
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