| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 15:56:07
Do you find that you go through periods of relative quiet and periods of raging TMS? This certainly seems to be the case with me at the moment. Unrelenting! Some things are more troubling than others; some symptoms really get my attention and others, not so much. Once again, FEAR is the fuel. Even though I am quite sure current symptom is tms (an old pf that appears every now and then despite what I do or don't do), or at least made worse by tms, fear of it keeps me from challenging it much. Ironically, this pf does not bother me at all when running barefoot or with minimalist shoes. It started this time after wearing regular running shoes for several runs. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Goodney |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 20:58:21
Thecastleaugh:
You are so very welcome. You are NOT crazy and you are NOT alone. I'm glad to help. |
| thecastleaugh |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:36:55
quote:
Originally posted by Goodney
Thecastleaugh:
You are not crazy at all, don't worry. You're right, I have had TMS for a long time, most of my life in fact. I suffered terrible physical and emotional abuse as a child, and looking back, I realize that the unexplained stomach pain and abdominal discomfort throughout my childhood were only the first manifestations of TMS.
I hear what you're saying when it comes to feeling good about feeling bad. It seems absolutely counter-intuitive, until you keep in mind how tricky the subconscious can be. For me, somewhere along the way I developed a mindset of worrying and obsessing about negative outcomes in every given situation (my "catastrophizing"); it became a habit, it became my familiar way of looking at the world, and it became comforting because it gave me the illusion that I could anticipate and avoid the danger by simply anticipating and preparing for the worst.
Oh my gosh, thank you for that! I'm so glad I'm not the only one! I thought I was crazy... That post really made my day just now. I came from a similar situation (not physical pain, but mental), and this reaction has really been getting in the way now that I'm no longer in danger. I'll keep your post in mind the next time I feel like that. Thanks again!
-------------------------
"What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
"What do you mean: an African or European swallow?"
"What, behind the rabbit?"
"No... it IS the rabbit!" |
| Jonathan Baruch |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 22:18:56
This something I too relate. I was on the road to recovery, and suddenly thebpain move from left to right, to shin, to butt, great in the morning, crappy at night, next daynthe opposite. On Friday, I dealt with two enormous work personnel issues, which I am convinced has been living in my sub conscious so I am hopeful my bodymwill respond favorably. Run into your TMS, as opposed to running away from it! Enjoy your holiday.
quote]Originally posted by art
quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Thanks Art. I definitely know what you mean about the "high stakes" nature of hamstring symptoms. That one scares the crap out of me because I have a real partial rupture from many years ago that very easily get stirred up with the slightest over stretching. The other thing that scares me is pf, but only on the left foot. It's very strange because it doesn't behave like normal pf; painful in the morning and getting better through the day (like the right foot does), just the opposite. I don't understand it.
Heading to Arizona tomorrow for a week where I'll spend a lot of time running on the great system of canals. You can run in one direction, totally flat gravel, for miles and miles in the heat. Great!
Pf doesn't scare me particularly because 1: It's almost always TMS in my experience and 2: you can still run with it even if it's genuine.
Of course you can feel pretty sure that your current bout is TMS simply on the basis of the symptoms being backward..
AZ sounds terrific. Enjoy.
No fear!
[/quote]
Life is good!
JB |
| art |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 14:37:48
quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Thanks Art. I definitely know what you mean about the "high stakes" nature of hamstring symptoms. That one scares the crap out of me because I have a real partial rupture from many years ago that very easily get stirred up with the slightest over stretching. The other thing that scares me is pf, but only on the left foot. It's very strange because it doesn't behave like normal pf; painful in the morning and getting better through the day (like the right foot does), just the opposite. I don't understand it.
Heading to Arizona tomorrow for a week where I'll spend a lot of time running on the great system of canals. You can run in one direction, totally flat gravel, for miles and miles in the heat. Great!
Pf doesn't scare me particularly because 1: It's almost always TMS in my experience and 2: you can still run with it even if it's genuine.
Of course you can feel pretty sure that your current bout is TMS simply on the basis of the symptoms being backward..
AZ sounds terrific. Enjoy.
No fear! |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 13:02:06
Thanks Art. I definitely know what you mean about the "high stakes" nature of hamstring symptoms. That one scares the crap out of me because I have a real partial rupture from many years ago that very easily get stirred up with the slightest over stretching. The other thing that scares me is pf, but only on the left foot. It's very strange because it doesn't behave like normal pf; painful in the morning and getting better through the day (like the right foot does), just the opposite. I don't understand it.
Heading to Arizona tomorrow for a week where I'll spend a lot of time running on the great system of canals. You can run in one direction, totally flat gravel, for miles and miles in the heat. Great! |
| Goodney |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 11:13:02
Oh, and I almost forgot to add that it sounds crazy that in order to protect ourselves from strong emotions we use pain in different parts of our body when there is no structural problem, right? Not to your subconscious! |
| Goodney |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 10:28:50
Thecastleaugh:
You are not crazy at all, don't worry. You're right, I have had TMS for a long time, most of my life in fact. I suffered terrible physical and emotional abuse as a child, and looking back, I realize that the unexplained stomach pain and abdominal discomfort throughout my childhood were only the first manifestations of TMS.
I hear what you're saying when it comes to feeling good about feeling bad. It seems absolutely counter-intuitive, until you keep in mind how tricky the subconscious can be. For me, somewhere along the way I developed a mindset of worrying and obsessing about negative outcomes in every given situation (my "catastrophizing"); it became a habit, it became my familiar way of looking at the world, and it became comforting because it gave me the illusion that I could anticipate and avoid the danger by simply anticipating and preparing for the worst. It gave me the illusion of control and self-preservation. Handy for protecting myself from going insane as a child in mortal danger of being beaten to death, not so handy for living a healthy adult life after the original physical danger ceased to exist. But it was developed by my subconscious as a defense -- much like physical pain from TMS, which I also developed as a defense around that same young age.
I am convinced that our adult thought patterns (and our physical sensations) are often dictated by our subconscious mind trying to protect us using techniques developed at a very early age against perceived threats to our mental and physical well being. And the stronger the perceived reality of those early threats (whether accurately perceived or not), the stronger the subconscious reaction, and the harder to eradicate, even when as an adult we realize that those old protective techniques are hindering us living a full and happy life.
So, we're more afraid of winning than losing, right? We need people to like us, right? (I am often reminded of a quote by John Thompson, the former coach of Georgetown University's basketball team: "If you want someone to like you, lose".) We want to stay in the "normal" range, right? We're happier when things go wrong, right? Sounds crazy, right? Not to your subconscious! |
| thecastleaugh |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 08:49:23
Wow, this topic really got me thinking. PTosh, I know how you feel. I feel like "Akeelah and the Bee," when it says you're not afraid to lose, you're afraid to win. I feel like if I do something well, people won't like me because I'll be better than them. I hold myself back and intentionally do poorly just so I can stay in the range of "normal." Sometimes the fear of not being liked is crippling. I didn't even know what it was until a few weeks ago, when my twin questioned me about it and I just answered without thinking.
Goodney, Art, you guys must have had this for a long time. Your posts make me feel better just reading them--I'm not alone in thinking of my feelings as an addiction! It's like even when I know I should be happy, I get happier when something goes wrong. Does that happen to anyone? I can't seem to help feeling happy when I should feel bad, almost like happiness is the bad feeling. Like, when something bad happens, even if it wasn't me (and it usually isn't), I smile and I don't even know why. Or like when I'm crying, even when I'm by myself, it almost makes me happy that I can cry. Am I just crazy?
-------------------------
"What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
"What do you mean: an African or European swallow?"
"What, behind the rabbit?"
"No... it IS the rabbit!" |
| art |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 14:16:32
Wrld,
You've come a long way. I remember when you were still questioning whether TMS applied to your case. At least I think I remember that..
In any case, that was all well expressed. I've been dealing with a hamstring (the other leg now). I'm as certain as I can be the initial injury was real. It happened after shoveling snow for 2 hours a day for days on end. There was no place to run with all the snow we had, so I was using the shoveling as way to work out...One day I shoveled longer and harder even than I'd be doing previously, ignoring warning pains. Then finally went for a run the next day. When I got back I knew I was sunk. Took 6 days off, then despite continued pain tried to run. That one pretty much crippled me....
Long story shorter, I took 4 weeks off from there, then starting swimming and doing a kind of aerobic routine in the house. I had to get back to working out, and the swimming and aerobics type deal seemed gentle enough. When the pain started in again, I decided this time it had to be TMS. You know the drill: it came and went, varied in intensity, seemed to occur at odd times...
It's been a battle because of the high stakes nature of hamstrings. Nothing's certain in this life, and yet it's important not to simply plow ahead but to do so as fearlessly as possible..
Yesterday the pain was pretty intense, but swam anyway this morning, and now the pain is pretty much gone. Instructive to note that even though I continued on all this time under the TMS assumption, the pain steadily increased until I found a way to stop the fear...No great trick there: just a lot of self talk and logical examinations of symptoms... |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 19:48:20
Hearing others describe tms patterns that are very much like mine, gives me greater confidence in this way of viewing symptoms. Still, the compulsion to respond with FEAR to the next symptom has been wired in for so long that it will take great desire, patience, and work, to change my programming. I'm okay with that. I like a challenge.
Today is a good example. Three days ago, I was very disturbed because an old foot pf had been stirred up. It went from very minor to quite intense in a matter of hours and then was pretty much gone the next day. Two good days and it is slightly stirred up again today along with some ischial tuberosity pain that flared up for a few hours and then disappeared. What I did differently this time was that three days ago I was so fed up with this constant barrage of symptoms that I made a serious attempt to simply monitor my thought without trying to do anything about them. Every time the thought of my foot would come up, I would simply notice it and not take the bait of trying to delve deeper into it, eg, what did I do to hurt it, how long will it last, how will it effect my running... This seemed to work quite well as I felt much calmer even with the symptoms and these symptoms departed much quicker than I would have expected (returned somewhat after two days absence).
Something else. To me, the simple fact that symptoms can come and go so quickly (sometimes within minutes), move around, change in intensity, seems to strongly indicate PSYCHOSOMATIC! "Real" injuries behave in a more logical way. |
| maldon |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 01:52:57
Susan - the point you mention in regards to Schubiner's book totally struck a chord with me yesterday. I've never read it but the idea of telling the pain to go away seemed ludicrously simple. From experience of TMS I'd never make any sweeping statements about cures or anything but getting up this morning without the usual stiffness and tender spots has got me thinking there's something to treating my TMS like an unwanted parasite. There's a scene in the Lord of the Rings when Smeagol is telling his nasty alter-ego Gollum to "go away and never come back". I have a uni assignment due in and my sciatica has been playing up as I look for excuses not to hand it in on time (fear of failure issues I think). But I MUST hand it in and I ended up getting angry and telling my pain/anxiety that it was actually ruining my life; that it served no useful purpose and to "go away and never come back". I even taunted it with playground insults and battled it with positive, happy, healthy messages like a form of mental pronking!! (Pronking is the super athletic moves gazelles/antelopes do when a hungry lion is watching them. It's a "look how fast and agile I am" tactic so the lion chooses easier prey.)
As I said earlier I feel great today (and any pain-free day is a good one to be enjoyed) but with TMS tomorrow is another story. I'm going to continue the personal attacks on my pain/fear parasite and hope for the best. I like this forum  |
| PTosh |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:34:57
quote:
Why can't I just BE, why can't I just live like other people and not start thinking about a pain in the middle of having a good time?"
I rarely can have a moment of pure enjoyment, without being disturbed with a TMS distraction. When a social relation is going well, I tend to screw it up. When I'm having fun playing some computer game, pain tends to come (even though I don't get any of this pain if I'm doing anything else on the pc). When I think about it, there are very few moments where I have pleasure, I'm like Dr. House lol.
I thought a lot about this strange situation. The conclusion I got is that I get insecure when something is going well, and I'm getting happy for it. I fear something will screw it up, and as we all know, TMS acts when there is an insecurity. An insecurity is a hole left by the conscious, and therefore it's easily exploited by the unconscious to serve its purpose (hide unconscious emotions), because the conscious is basically letting it happen.
quote:
Good questions. I'm going to guess for me that it is because of some self-loathing, self-esteem issues that have reared with the onset of this worst TMS problem. Going out with friends, etc., is an enjoyable act, and somehow, deep down perhaps I think I don't deserve to have this pleasure anymore.
I also thought that before, that deep down I thought I didn't deserve to be happy. But pain caused by TMS isn't caused because we think we deserve to get it, it's caused because the unconscious is just doing its job. The same happens with this situation: it's not caused by self-destructive thoughts, it's caused because of the unconscious.
quote:
I have trouble doing anything creative, all the things I used to do. I have to force myself to play my musical instruments and other hobbies. Has this happened to anyone else? I just figure, why bother, I can't enjoy anything. Logically, I know this is ridiculous. I'm just stunted..stopped by something. Myself. And don't understand it.
I'm not sure if this is your problem, but when I study I get anxious (although I'm getting better now), even when I'm studying things I like. I get to the point of doubting if I like those things I'm studying, because of the anxiety I get when I'm studying them.
I think the key points to resolve TMS is not on behaviour psychology, that just makes TMS go from one distraction to another . The key things are reducing supressed feelings, reducing the importance we give to the distractions (if you gave no importance to a distraction, it wouldn't be distracting you and so it would stop because it wouldn't be doing its job), and if you have money and time, work on your unconscious issues with a psychoanalyst. I'm trying to a find a loophole in TMS theory to have another way of getting better, but right now I only know of these... |
| susan828 |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 12:16:13
Thanks for that reply, Art. I see a lot of myself if your posts and I always hope that you will write. As I do Schubiner's book, I write every day. That's how it's laid out and it's a lot like being in therapy except you have your own answers. It's bringing out a lot of my issues that I haven't talked about to anyone who really understands. I have always kept a diary so I've written my thoughts down but now I am forced to do it daily.
Regarding piano, I feel not unworthy but I feel that who is going to hear me but myself. I have no mate at this time and my Dad was my biggest fan and encouraged me to play (he was a pianist). I know I should learn just for myself..and the truth is that when I go to a party, I bring life into it. I'm good. So one of my issues is losing my father. I haven't been the same since. We connected so deeply through music. I learn a new piece now, master it and feel, who can I show this to, who will appreciate it like he did?
In reference to what you just said though, the unworthy feeling comes when the health anxiety kicks in and the pain and then I say to myself why bother to have fun. I guess that's the unworthy part. I feel like such a loser for not being able to get a grip on this. I'm smart, I was in the counseling profession myself for years...I'm talented musically, I have so much going for me but when this crap hits, I feel like I'm just so nuts. And the loneliness..you are lucky you have a wife. I can't see how any man would put up with this. When I get like this, I want to be alone. I don't want to talk...how can I when I think I have appendicitis or some other God forsaken thing half the time?
I have had many men in my life, most of my life, but none understood. They tolerated it and much of the time I didn't see them on the days things were bad, but could never tell them what's wrong for fear of losing them. So I'd make up excuses. I wish I could find someone with whom I can be real. Like all of us, we are NOT tms, we're sensitive, good individuals and this is something that grabbed us. I hope you will don't mind the length of many of my posts but it helps me to write and I hope that maybe someone reading this sees themselves in it and we can help each other.
When you mention the times you feel contented..yes..if you saw me when I am feeling good, it's such a contrast. Nobody would know what goes on underneath at other times. I'm very upbeat, funny, spunky, the life of the party. Until that stupid flash of anxiety comes over me from a twinge of pain, at which time I go into the bathroom, close the door and say "WHY? Why is this happening again? Why can't I change?" and just get so bummed out and disappointed in myself that I can't conquer it. |
| art |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:53:55
Susan,
I find that when I feel contented enough, I'm much more eager to write, or play the piano,
or even read a big fat novel.. When I'm full of fear and anxiety or depression, I don't want to do anything but stew in my own juices. In some sense, it's almost as if I'm feeling unworthy to do the things that make me happy... |
| susan828 |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:38:34
Back2It, well, not stars but I think it is such a relief to find people who finally understand exactly what we're going through. To others, this sounds crazy. They just don't understand this whole phenomenon.
It's reassuring to me to hear my thoughts echoed in various ways but all the same. GMack, you mentioned the term comfort zone. Lately with me, my comfort zone is (except for when I am at work) the computer. I have trouble doing anything creative, all the things I used to do. I have to force myself to play my musical instruments and other hobbies. Has this happened to anyone else? I just figure, why bother, I can't enjoy anything. Logically, I know this is ridiculous. I'm just stunted..stopped by something. Myself. And don't understand it. |
| GMack |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:16:31
Yes for me the fear/anxiety is worse than the pain. It's like the TMS gremlin is saying "if I can't get your attention with pain, I'll scare the $#*@ out of you!" I can be feeling great puttering around the house, then as soon as my wife says "hey let's go out to dinner" or somewhere away from my comfort zone, I will get a headache, back spasm, dizziness, or some other sudden symptom. I'll tell my brain to shut up, shrug it off and force myself to go out, but I won't enjoy the experience completely because I can't shake the fear that something bad might happen. Very frustrating. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 07:12:12
quote:
Originally posted by Goodney
I envy those who bounce out of bed and can't wait to face what the day will bring. Frankly, I dread it. I am thankful for this forum; it allows me to know I am not alone.
I think that some others who have beaten their problems have pointed out that acceptance of the pain is needed, a conscious reduction of stressors, and, maybe the most important, a focusing of the brain onto something positive: a law of attraction type of thing. Some will translate that into a higher power carrying the burden; others have a different spin. Either way, it allows the focus to be on something larger than our pain. I think that is the crux of it.
I guess Sarno says the same thing only differently: if you believe you will have pain when doing something, you will. Out with friends, then boom, there it is.
The forums are a mixed blessing. We know we are not alone, but can too much participation keep us where our subconscious wants us to be?
Should we really get stars for moaning about our problems on here? |
| Goodney |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 06:59:36
This really is a good topic. It's almost as if we can't for some reason allow ourselves to be carefree, and truly at ease. I can't remember the last time I simply got out of bed without feeling burdened, and had a day of ease. Worries, stress, anxiety, pain, all seem to weigh me down. I envy those who bounce out of bed and can't wait to face what the day will bring. Frankly, I dread it. I am thankful for this forum; it allows me to know I am not alone. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 06:52:40
quote:
Originally posted by susan828
Why can't I just BE, why can't I just live like other people and not start thinking about a pain in the middle of having a good time?"
Does this happen to other people here, when they're out with friends? Do you have any idea why? I try to not analyze this but part of me needs to understand this, I feel, in order to get well.
Good questions. I'm going to guess for me that it is because of some self-loathing, self-esteem issues that have reared with the onset of this worst TMS problem. Going out with friends, etc., is an enjoyable act, and somehow, deep down perhaps I think I don't deserve to have this pleasure anymore.
Don't have any answers, except that I really try to focus on the conversation at hand and not be passive, figuring this will bring me more into the present and out of the land of "What if" or the land of "Second Fear".
My guess is that if we were all put into a real "fight or flight" situation, say our cities were being bombed or under siege,and if it were prolonged, that our pain would disappear for good. If we survived. |
| Forfeet |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 01:45:53
All,
This is a great topic. I can't say that social occasions are preceded by pain but I sure can relate to the fear. Although my most recent pain distracted me to the point that I could not concentrate much on what I was browsing through in a book store.
This week, I had a new pain in my knee (or maybe a revisit from one I had forgotten about) and it scared me to the point that I looked on the web to see if I could figure out what it supposedly is (although I'm dealing with it as TMS). I have been avoiding medical web sites for months. While I'm in a different place than I was a few months ago in that no matter what I read, I still don't think it is serious, I'm still mad at myself for doing it.
Nothing traumatic happened, although I work at a physically demanding job and I always fear I'm getting to old to do it-bad thinking I know and I fight it all the time.I am grateful to this site and Sarno for normalizing some knee pains that are often exagerrated by the medical community that doesn't acknowledge TMS.
A couple of months it was another pain in my right toe and ball, later followed by the left that had me worried. Before that, something else=anyway, you get the idea. Lately, I have been yelling and raging at God and my body about these pains and telling my body that I won't let it stop me and I know it is not serious. I do wonder if it is time to try a kinder and gentler approach. Anyone have better success with one over the other?
The loneliness mentioned by Art struck a chord. I feel very lonely in that I don't have anyone in my circle who I can talk to about this, although I'm grateful for this site. I really believe face to face support would be helpful for me. It is hard when most people see everything as structural and are very suspicious of TMS or mind body issues. |
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