| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| marytabby |
Posted - 12/21/2010 : 06:23:11
For those of you who have gotten good control of your bodily symptoms but now feel it's been replaced with depression symptoms, what has worked for you to overcome it? Is it the same approach as the way you got rid of the body symptoms? |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kenny V |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 06:13:42
I am sharing this post for encouragement to those who are consenplating-using drugs to treat an underlying condition that may not be helped at all. JMHO as far as treating TMS symptoms it never breaks the cycle or gets to the core issue as to why you are feeling the way you do. Stay on course and avoid drugs at all costs especially if they are blockers.( blocks true emotions) Again one of the reasons I have suggested the natural route. What I had found was you want to bring out your real emotions and deal with them rather that cover them up.
When they had me on some powerful stuff for pain (my last resort after physical therapy and injections) I wanted to die and was numb. At that time my family was scared for me for the first time in my life. ( even my young daughter noticed a change and was scared for me) . However it wasn’t till I started to do the real work of treating TMS till I was delivered from the pain and broke its vicious cycle. And thankfully pain free ever since.
My Best
Kenny V
These Popular Drugs Can Make You Violent
1. Varenicline (Chantix): The number one violence-inducing drug on the list, this anti-smoking medication is 18 times more likely to be linked with violence when compared to other drugs
2. Fluoxetine (Prozac): This drug was the first well-known SSRI antidepressant
3. Paroxetine (Paxil): Another SSRI antidepressant, Paxil is also linked with severe withdrawal symptoms and a risk of birth defects
4. Amphetamines: (Various): Used to treat ADHD
5. Mefoquine (Lariam): A treatment for malaria which is often linked with reports of strange behavior
6. Atomoxetine (Strattera): An ADHD drug that affects the neurotransmitter noradrenaline
7. Triazolam (Halcion): This potentially addictive drug is used to treat insomnia
8. Fluvoxamine (Luvox): Another SSRI antidepressant
9. Venlafaxine (Effexor): An antidepressant also used to treat anxiety disorders
10. Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq): An antidepressant which affects both serotonin and noradrenaline
Full text
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/02/top-ten-legal-drugs-linked-to-violence.aspx
Exert
How legal drugs affect your mental state is a very important issue that is not getting the attention it deserves. In recent years, prescription rates for antidepressants and related drugs have skyrocketed.
About 230 million prescriptions for antidepressants are now filled each year, making them one of the most-prescribed drugs in the United States. But despite all of these prescription drugs being taken, more than one in 20 Americans are still depressed, according to the most recent statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
The statistics alone should be a strong indication that what we're doing is simply not working, and that instead, these drugs are contributing to other serious health problems—and play a significant role in senseless acts of violence.
Depression (which from a more holistic perspective can be described as un-repaired emotional short-circuiting) can devastate your health and life. However, using antidepressants as the primary or only treatment option is simply not advisable, especially if the one suffering from depression is a child or teenager.
Whereas severe depression can indeed progress to suicide if left untreated, antidepressant drugs have been shown to CAUSE both suicidal and homicidal thoughts and behaviors.
Now, a study by The Institute of Safe Medication Practices has identified 31 commonly-prescribed drugs that are disproportionately associated with cases of violent acts. Topping the list is the quit-smoking drug Chantix, followed by Prozac and Paxil, and drugs used to treat ADHD.
Chantix is a whopping 18 times more likely to be linked with violence compared to other drugs, with 408 reported incidents.
These figures were collected from the US FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), and it's well worth noting here that only an estimated one to 10 percent of all side effects are ever reported to VAERS. So the fact that 408 acts of violence were linked to the drug and then actually reported is pretty amazing, considering the fact that the vast majority of side effects, regardless of what they are, are blamed on something else and connections are brushed aside as "coincidental
Always Hope For Recovery
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| waterboy |
Posted - 01/19/2011 : 13:53:12
I agree. A lot of shrinks are pill pushers. It's the sad state of American psychiatry today that fewer doctors are combining talk therapy with pharmacotherapy and have simply become medication managers.
However, that's not to say that there are not dedicated, caring individuals out there who are genuinely devoted to the art and science of psychiatry. I have met both types. It takes some informed consumerism to find the right one, and, unfortunately, mood disorder patients are often loathe to put in the time and effort to find the right doctor. Even if the verdict on whether antidepressants work is debatable, new studies on the placebo effect in antidepressant treatment show that a good relationship with a doctor has a direct correlation to the success of therapy regardless of whether the patient is taking a placebo or the real thing.
BTW, if anyone wants the information for a good psychiatrist in the Bay Area or Los Angeles, let me know. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 07:50:18
The anxiety/depression I am referring to is directly related to the pain symptoms and not for those who have experienced long time depressive bouts.
Anti-depressants are sometimes very necessary. However, there are too many psychiatrists who are simply pill dispensers. Once they give you the pills they turn you over to a counselor.
One counselor I saw tapped on my knees and told me to hang in there and I would get through it.
I don't have much respect for the psycho-therapy community.
As for the anti-depressants, I attended some group sessions that in themselves were totally depressing. The people there never seemed to get off their meds and were always having side effects and getting a change of meds or doses. For years and years they were like this. Non-functional, and not helped at all by the phycho-therapy community.
There is no shame in taking anti-depressants; the shame is with the psycho-therapy community and the lack of genuine care. It is often impossible to "pull yourself together" and "beat" depression. It's a shame the quacks and pill pushers that you have to visit often can't and won't help. |
| waterboy |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 14:22:10
I want to go into something that art and others have alluded to. I think in any discussion like this it's important to have a disclaimer so people don't get the wrong idea. It's probably been said before, but I think it bears repeating. Major depression is very serious stuff. I frankly think it's bull**** to call severe major depression a TMS equivalent and I think that doing so encourages misguided thinking. I think that there is no doubt that anyone with symptoms of moderate to severe depression should seek psychiatric help immediately (I would suggest both a psychologist and a psychiatrist). There are a number of depression surveys that you can fill out to assess your particular situation. The beck depression inventory is a good one to start with since you can do it yourself. If the depression is mild then I think a psychotherapeutic approach including but not limited to TMS is just fine. For moderate to severe cases, the psychotherapeutic approach is helpful, but it is very important to treat the depression to complete symptom resolution. That means a very low score on the BDI or similar tests. Recent studies are showing that almost 90% of people with one episode of major depression have a recurrence. For people with two or more recurrences, the chance of another recurrence is 100%. I think that in the hands of a competent psychiatrist (i.e., not a pill-pusher or someone who doesn't care very much about outcomes), antidepressants are fine and sometimes necessary. If you and/or your psychologist decide that antidepressants might help, then it is very important to find someone you trust and that will make the decisions for you as well as be sensitive to your side-effects. A psychiatrist must be committed to 100% remission or you should continue to shop around. After remission, continuing CBT therapy has been shown to be helpful in preventing a relapse. The following study has good information: http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v05s09/v64s1504.pdf. I don't think that antidepressants are a good idea for pain without comorbid severe depression and.or anxiety. I think that's where a lot of people have had problems with side-effects, etc (i.e., taking an antidepressant just for pain). That's where I think the TMS approach is useful and effective, but once you hit major depression, it is very very hard to work out of it on your own. There is no shame in taking antidepressants, and they have a better than 50/50 chance of working.
In my experience with severe depression an antidepressant worked, and I could tell that it worked (i.e., not a placebo). I don't know if a therapy-based approach only would have worked at the time. I moved around a lot after I had my initial course of therapy, went off meds for a little while, and didn't find a very competent psychiatrist for a long time. Unfortunately, I did not have a full remission of depression symptoms during the initial course of antidepressants (although the pain was completely gone when I was on Lexapro). I think if I knew about TMS when I went off meds, I probably would've had a better chance of full remission. In any case, I have been practicing the TMS work as well as incorporating the thoughts of Weekes and others. I've had some success, especially with my attitude towards doing activities with pain and not letting it keep me from doing anything. However, my mood changes and relapses (pain, crying jags, low mood, agitation, etc.) have become more and more frequent and a recent self-inventory indicated severe depression. The interesting thing for me is that despite a significant decrease in thoughts associated with depression, the thing came back on its own. That suggests to me that, in my case, the depression may have a strong biological component.
I finally saw a competent (probably exceptionally so) psychiatrist today and am taking a more aggressive approach, but will continue to treat my pain using a TMS/anxiety reduction/CBT approach. My hope is that others in similar situations will seek help once their depressions become unmanageable via TMS. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 18:52:21
Darko-- I think I did get the suggestion for 5-HTP from you and then from the TMS doc the same week. I take GABA and L-Tyrosine as well.
It's helped me to overcome my "anxiety of movement" and the depression and general anxiety I have had over the 1.5 years of this pain.
I know I couldn't have started with a TMS approach without calming myself enough to think clearly. That and applying Dr. Weekes practical suggestions to "cure" anxiety, which is a TMS equivalent yada yada... |
| Darko |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 17:57:39
Mary,
5HTP was mentioned in an earlier post and I would like to second that. I have personally used it and still do and I swear by it. I take L-Tyrosine ( needed for the 5htp to work effectively ) in the morning and 5HTP at night, I have posed about it several time but it's not really been picked up on. Google it but from what I've seen 5HTP is as good if not BETTER than all the anti-depressant drugs out there.
It helps with my sleep and just keeps me a little more chilled.......
D |
| marytabby |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 12:54:34
Sarno clearly says depression is a TMS equivalent so I don't know what approach to take. I have had good success with ridding myself of most back/neck pain from the TMS concepts but not the depression. Thanks everyone for posting. The all natural stuff may be worth a look. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 12/26/2010 : 13:25:46
Tennis Tom:
quote:
Who is your TMS doctor if you care to mention?
I would be a little uncomfortable naming the doctor in this circumstance for fear that his recommendation is blanket for all.
I will say this: I am in Chicago and the doctor is at Northwestern and listed, I believe, in the TMS Wiki.
For those who wish to know privately, you can email.
Sorry to be so vague in this case, but I'm not sure it's good to attach a doc's name to my own ruminations.
I do agree with kenny V in many ways, but if you've been so beat up mentally by anxiety and depression and have physical problems , you cannot make a good start until you have some relief from the swamp that has become your brain. In my case, the 5-HTP and GABA and assorted vitamins have helped. A reduction in serotonin is a well known result of anxiety fight and flight.
In addition to these things, I am a student of Dr. Weekes. Up until I found her mentioned on this forum, I had gotten other anxiety books and found them to be more work than a PhD and not really addressing the how of dealing with anxiety. |
| kenny V |
Posted - 12/26/2010 : 11:54:40
Yes I would recommend trying some of these the things (ALWAYS Natural of course) Btw I will give a better explanation at the end of this post along with a reference. There are a few others things that MAY HELP. However we still need to get to the underlying condition as to what is causing the depression or is keeping it from prolonging progress for that matter. You may want to ask Is it inward anger, the way we are viewing our circumstances and attitude towards life. We must remember to live in the here now with a positive outlook. If we focus on trying to control things we have no control over, often times we can get depressed. IMO this usually stems from unmet expectations that turns into inward anger that leads to depression.
Lastly we can fall into selfishness or become so into ourselves and circumstances we don’t see its actually us that needs to change. Sometimes it s a matter helping others to move the focus off ourselves that change things for the better Then ultimately we start to feel better about ourselves. JMHO It is dangerous if we continue in the selfish/ anger mindset because we are never able to get out of the cycle that keeps us in the depression.
Sorry to say sometimes to get a breakthrough we may need to stop the pity parties, feeling sorry for ourselves and just move on. I don’t mean to preach here or seem incentive because everyone’s circumstances are different. And if anyone is saying you “don’t know mine,” Yea I do as I have been though the rough many of times. So low that I did not want to live anymore. I been to the lowest of lows many of times .Trust me I know it’s NOT an easy thing to do as I have suffered this many times in life but always came out of it if I worked on myself. At one time or another we all may get depressed but some folks may experience it allot worse than others do. Anyway I do not know anyone’s circumstances, but I do know that getting out of our depression can be HARD. Sometimes it can be a rut in life and the BIGGER we DIG THAT RUT the harder it’s to get out. If we don’ recognize this , often times we get trapped in the viscous cycle.
Today Depression is way over diagnosed and many folks are put on medication that does not help or get the person better. Because drugs will not treat the root cause. IMO it only complicates the issues and cover up ones emotions that may need surface to break the cycle. I do believe there is clinical and manic depressive disorder but that is entirely different animal than what I am discussing here. But also strongly believe docs are too quick to label and the majority of ones that are diagnosed , do not have this disorder.
In conclusion yes depression or feeling depressed is REAL. But it can become an uncontrolled emotion and state of mind. We may experience it just like the pain cycle. It’s real, however we may have this feeling for many different reasons and its up to us to discover and work on it to get better.
To understand more about depression I would also consider researching it from a nutritional standpoint perhaps look into SAD (seasonal affective disorder). You may learn a few things that make sense and pick up a few things that you never new about what can cause some other forms of depression. At this time a year I would definitely say we are more prone to get depressed than any other time . This is because of the holidays, A New Year coming up, and painful memories of lost loved ones. But we must also consider it is because of the of lack of exercise, proper sunlight and lack of Vit A and D.
In closing .I would still WARN against the use of Drugs because they will not treat the root cause. In fact may complicate the issues all the more by masking emotions. However in SOME cases (which I DID NOT discuss) they may be needed for specific conditions. I would agree if you were going to take something I would try 5-HTP and GABA with INSITOL as they good places to start. Oh!! Besides exercise, sunlight and plenty of water I would recommend Vit A and D and especially Vitamin B to help with lack of energy You may want to try St Johns and a pinch of L- theanine as they can help if you are anxious too.
Again I would highly recommend to everyone at least to consider getting a book called “Encyclopedia to natural medicine” by Michael Murray He touches on depression in a few sections. JMHO drugs will only complicate the issue example masking your real emotional feelings)
Ps For more info Please take a look at this topic
Is it OK to take an Anti-Depressant?
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=922&SearchTerms=drugs
Here is search on Depression. You can also check the archives see what others has written before
http://tmshelp.com/forum/search.asp?mode=DoIt
Ps that didn’t work you will have to do the search and name the author .
Here are a few posts I had prev written on the subject Drugs and depression
Is Depression really a chemical imbalance
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4903&SearchTerms=Depression
anti-depressant medication
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1288&SearchTerms=Depression
HTH
Kenny V
Always Hope For Recovery
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/26/2010 : 09:43:48
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
You might want to look into 5-HTP and GABA. 5-HTP, which elevates your serotonin level, which might be depleted with ongoing anxiety and stress.
Good post B2-I, thanks for the tip, I'll try anything once. Who is your TMS doctor if you care to mention?
Cheers
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6415
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| Back2-It |
Posted - 12/25/2010 : 22:04:14
You might want to look into 5-HTP and GABA. 5-HTP, which elevates your serotonin level, which might be depleted with ongoing anxiety and stress.
I wasn't able to really focus on TMS because I was obsessing and anxious about my symptoms. 5-HTP and GABA was recommended by a TMS doctor I am seeing, and it does work with most people, and quickly. You don't need weeks to get it into your system.
Sometimes you need help to retool the brain. Ultimately it is the brain which has to do the work, but I found I couldn't even start with an off the charts anxiety level and being depressed about my situation. Those who perhaps don't have the associated anxiety and depression might disagree about taking anything, but each person is different.
You can check with your doctor about it, and research it yourself, but it has found to be effective for many with little or no side effects, unlike anti-depressants. There are some counteractions, so you have to be careful what you take it with.
It's available OTC in health food stores and at your CVS and other drug stores. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/25/2010 : 18:20:33
According to Dr. Sarno, depression is an affective TMS equivalent. From my own experiences with it I agree. I've had some positive results with some meds for it but had a negative reaction to Lexapro. Meds can help get one through but in the end dealing with it from a TMS perspective will treat the causes and not the symptoms as the meds do. I've posted here about my experiences and you are welcome to do a search.Personally I think there's plenty to be depressed about and I wonder why so many people are running about so giddy.
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6415
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| marytabby |
Posted - 12/25/2010 : 17:32:36
Thank you all for responding. I would agree that mild depression and anxiety for me anyway, have not responded well with a myriad of different meds. I think I have a very mild case of the "blues" which can last several months and then it will break for several months and then something major changes in my life and I get mildly depressed again. None of the meds have worked for me and I always end up saying to myself: "what's it all for? I don't feel any better 6 weeks into this, I just feel either the same or worse since they have side effects like libido problems, constipation, etc. I hate these side effects. Adding positive things in my life is probably the cure. I'll keep thinking about ways to improve socially, etc. Thanks. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 12/25/2010 : 17:31:23
Thank you all for responding. I would agree that mild depression and anxiety for me anyway, have not responded well with a myriad of different meds. I think I have a very mild case of the "blues" which can last several months and then it will break for several months and then something major changes in my life and I get mildly depressed again. None of the meds have worked for me and I always end up saying to myself: "what's it all for? I don't feel any better 6 weeks into this, I just feel either the same or worse since they have side effects like libido problems, constipation, etc. I hate these side effects. Adding positive things in my life is probably the cure. I'll keep thinking about ways to improve socially, etc. Thanks. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 19:55:24
I would also agree with Art. Depression is a very complicated, multi-faceted disease, which can't be attributed to one cause. There is a genetic component (about 50%), but even with that, a trigger is required (eg, stress) to manifest it. Some people with strong genetic propensities for depression, never manifest it because their environmental conditions are so benign. The less lucky ones are two-time "losers" with faulty genes and environment. Fortunately, there are so many things that can be done, incl nutrition, exercise, mindfulness meditation, cbt, intentionally increasing the ratio of positive to negative factors in one's life, positive distraction, finding meaning, socializing, getting a dog, spending time in nature...and yes, even meds, though as Art said, they are only proven to work with more serious cases. There is no proof meds are better than placebo for milder cases. |
| alexis |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 07:45:11
I'm going to second what art said - while some depression may have a distraction component, I doubt we can thow it all into the same heap. This is a generic symptom like fever, or swelling or shakes. No one says "fevers are caused by the flu virus" or "swelling means you have the mumps".
There's some good evidence that depressions have evolved as a coping mechanism, shutting a person down from excess stimuli when overwhelmed. In that sense some depressions I think are TMS-like.
But many other causes seem to exist. One theory I've found interesting lately is that a lot of depressions may be related to understimulation of the nucleus acumbens. Meaningful, goal oriented physical activity is likely to stimulate this center, and many of the jobs held in modern developed countries simple don't offer the necessary stimulation.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressingly-easy
This would in part help explain how exercise is almost always found to be as good, or better, than drugs in fighting depression. Even better would be goal oriented physical activity. |
| suegr98 |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 21:23:21
Marytabby, I am getting off anti-depressants while I go through my TMS recovery to see what will happen. My depression has never been severe enough to immobilized me (nor has my TMS) and I am pretty sure it is from the same source, sublimation of forbidden feelings. In fact I started on antidepressants after a particularly tough time with family during the holiday season. I am doing better with family right now, but they can still push my buttons. So I can't say much that's helpful, except to say that if we are finding one symptom replacing itself elsewhere, we are still in process. I know I am! I am finding a lot of good advice on this forum about being patient and letting go, which I am not very good at yet.
take good care,
Sue
http://healingwithfeelings.wordpress.com
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| art |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 07:13:51
Hi Mary,
I don't want to become the resident skeptic as I've benefited greatly from Sarno's TMS ideas. But I find the assertion that depression is a form of TMS rather sweeping. Moderate to severe depression responds well to medication as controlled studies have shown (controlling for placebo effect). This argues against the TMS theory it seems to me.
Less serious depression is perhaps a different matter. Placebo works just as well as the meds. |
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