| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 11/04/2010 : 11:57:04
So, random, thought-provoking question. Do animals get TMS?
This crossed my mind because I work with horses. We often have horses who are "chronically" lame. Sometimes this lameness can be attributed to "structural abnormalities," most often in the hoof and leg. Sometimes there seems to be no clear reason why a horse is chronically lame. Sometimes the lameness comes and goes with no clear reason.
So, can horses and other animals have tms? Or do their "structural abnormalities" actually cause them problems? Why would animals have abnormalities that cause them problems, but people do not? This confuses me because TMS seems to be a "human" problem, due to the way we think and the stresses of our lives, etc. So, can animals have TMS? And if not, why do they have mysterious pain that sometimes does not resolve? If animals have abnormalities that actually DO cause them problems, shouldn't we be the same way?
For the record, I believe in TMS 100%, but this just confuses me. |
| 5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Erata |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 08:01:09
^^You bring up some thought provoking questions! Since I sure don’t have any answers (we need an animal behaviorist and veterinarian who’s studied Sarno), I’ll share some more random thoughts…..
It would be interesting to know how many horses who exhibit lameness issues were abused by a trainer or rider. My daughter pointed out how horses usually exhibit stress through behavior, i.e. cribbing or pacing (we never had a cribber, but we had a mare who practically dug a trench by pacing the fence line. It was interesting that her previous owner was very guilty & upset over having to sell her, and moving any animal to a new home and herd is so stressful anyway. My daughter decided to breed her but feared she was such a fruit cake she could be one of those mares who sees her new foal and freaks over the new horse in the stall! She didn’t, she was a great mother and never paced again.)
My daughter also reminded me (she’s the horse-woman; I’m more the horse-mom) that horses can develop stress-induced ulcers and how stress contributes to colic. I know it’s not exactly the issues you’re referring to in your OP, but here’s a link that’s relevant to stress: http://www.jarvisinsurance.com/equine-newsletters/2004-2006/2005-01.html
I think it’s difficult to sort out possible TMS-related questions in dogs especially, because of how they’ve have been so genetically manipulated and bred to create traits and personalities to meet human needs. But, who knows, maybe over-breeding an entire species instigates internal rage over having their natural traits and instincts repressed and could contribute to illness.
I personally have a very hard time with how (small animal, at least) veterinary medicine now mirrors human medicine in cost, specialty practices, testing, treatment and especially vaccinations. I think pets are developing more illnesses as a result.
Also, dogs instinctively show displeasure by growling. A good trainer will caution an owner never to punish their dog for growling but instead correct the circumstances making the dog growl (a small child irritating the dog should be corrected rather than the dog being irritated), one reason being that growling is a warning and a precursor to biting. This reminds me how, as children, so many of us prone to TMS are taught not to express our anger and instead we internalize our ‘bite’ to appear later as physical symptoms.
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| heelsdown |
Posted - 11/06/2010 : 11:12:25
Back2-it, I'm not talking about animals having structural problems like a broken leg. A horse breaks a leg and we usually put him down! I'm talking about the same kind of "abnormalities" that we blame our problems on. In horses, things like bad pastern angles, cow hocks, straight shoulder, over at the knee, pigeon toed, etc. When we thoroughly check our horses out and there are no major problems, sometimes we blame these conformation faults. It is the same as blaming flat feet, bow legs, scoliosis, etc in humans.
And I definately do know some horses who are fine in the pasture, but come up lame under saddle! You can argue that this is due to the additional weight of a rider. But who knows.
Interesting about the lyme disease in dogs. Why do they get treated and it goes away? Do you think that maybe it may be a human thing? Like, we see our dog behaving strangely, learn it has lyme disease, give it medication, and then have the notion that he is "better" so we ignore or aren't as concerned about odd behaviors, and don't worry about them? Could this be human tms projected onto dogs?
I think it may be a valid point that animals that are so trained to pick up on and listen to human behavior that they could pick up some. But, do they really repress rage? There are some animals who seem to be nice/calm in every situation, so are they actually repressing bad feelings? They are trained by us to remain calm and not act upon their natural instincts. If these animals were not trained by us, might they express these feelings? Does this contribute? Do "nicer" animals tend to have chronic pain more often? Or maybe is it just a conditioned response in them without the cue of anger to start it? |
| Erata |
Posted - 11/06/2010 : 08:26:43
I’m really glad you posted this question because it’s something I’ve wondered about too; though we have horses on our farm, we’ve never had one chronically lame (knock on wood). What could be an unconscious equine trigger—maybe not wanting to be ridden, similar to a person who hates a job and develops back pain? And, since horses are prey animals, they instinctively don’t want to show weakness to their predators, so can a horse move normally while grazing in the field and become lame only when under saddle? (I’m just thinking out loud because this is an interesting subject……)
I’ve wondered about TMS in dogs and especially the diagnoses of Lyme Disease, which Dr. Sarno considers to be TMS. My daughter is a vet vech student for both large & small animals and has worked for several years at a small animal practice. When a dog is suddenly lame or shows symptoms of lethargy, etc., Lyme is frequently suspected, tested, and, if positive, treated with antibiotics. Usually, the treatment works and no more problems (I’ll have to ask her if these same pets come back later with other symptoms.) So, why would it be that dogs get Lyme Disease, respond to treatment and get well, but people don’t? (And why don’t cats get Lyme Disease?)
My brother has a Jack Russell Terrier that once, when he & his wife were giving their other dog, who was sick, a lot of attention, began limping until they re-directed their attention to her. When they turned back to their other dog, she started limping again. (Several years later, she was diagnosed and treated—‘successfully’—for Lyme Disease.)
I wonder, if dogs and horses (for example) are susceptible to TMS, if it could it be because the two species are so tuned in to human emotions and respond readily to our commands. They’ve been domesticated and trained for thousands of years to ‘read’ our cues and signals, so why wouldn’t they also pick up some our unconscious & maladaptive behaviors?
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| Back2-It |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 22:19:32
Humans have the ability to anticipate. Animals may sense, but the human mind has many dimensions, and Sarno does say (somewhere) that it is "fear" that can be debilitating too. That's one part of it, I think. We think ahead and get conditioned in our minds to feel a certain way. At least this animal has.
People can have real structural issues too. Some are more troublesome than others. Break a leg; that's a real structural problem. It heals and then 10 years down the line it is blamed on other physical problems which are probably not related but targeted by the brain to avoid certain emotional problems.
Good question, though. |
| art |
Posted - 11/04/2010 : 12:46:06
Animals certainly get psychosomatic illness, that is physical manifestations of emotional pain and stress. I can see how this would cause an animal to have baffling symptoms that come and go.
But if you buy Sarno's model of repressed rage, then no, animals do not get TMS. Moreover, as a practical matter, since an animal clearly could not be treated for TMS, it's not a useful diagnosis for them.
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