| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 19:13:06
Hi All,
So, I am new to (knowing about) TMS, but have probably had it for about 12 years (only 2 of those years have been pain- others depression/eating disorder). I have read Healing Back Pain, the Mindbody Prescription, and am reading sarno’s new book now.
I would like to tell you my story and see if other people think I fit the TMS description. There is not a doctor close enough to where I live to diagnose me, so if I hear what other people think it might help me.
My story: I am a 25 year old female who has had disabling foot pain for 2 years. I am young, otherwise healthy, not overweight. Don’t fit any of the “typicals” for someone who gets foot pain. I have seen five different podiatrists, an orthopedist, and various other doctors. I have been diagnosed at various times and by various doctors throughout this process as having tendonitis, plantar fasciitis, and (most recently) tarsal tunnel. I have tried EVERYTHING to get rid of the pain. Orthotics, stretching, strengthening, rest, ice, heat, anti-inflammatories, cortisone injections, chiropractor, acupuncture, physical therapy, ultrasound. I know there must be more I am forgetting. Oh right, surgery!! I even had surgery to correct overpronation. I still do overpronate, but not to the extent I used to, and a very high percentage of the population overpronates without daily pain.
I have had various symptoms over these two years that have evolved and changed. Most recently I have had tingling and extreme soreness. In the past I have had burning and other pain. I have been disabled to the point where I could not stand for longer than 30 seconds without pain. Currently I can be on my feet for an hour or two before it gets too bad.
So, the reasons that lead me to believe this is TMS are that it has not responded to any conventional treatment and I have left many doctors baffled, saying “it doesn’t make sense why you still have this pain.”
But I also fit the psychological profile to a T. I am a perfectionist. An overachiever. I am harder on myself than anyone else is. I always believe I have not done enough. I am an EXTREME people-pleaser. I have had a few episodes similar to panic attacks when I thought that I had made someone upset!
I have a lot of life stressors, especially since I graduated college… all the normals. What to do next. Money. Family. Etc. My dad died when I was 12 and I never properly dealt with that… always just pretended like it didn’t bother me so I wouldn’t make other people uncomfortable.
I have a history of depression (lasting 5 years) and an eating disorder that lasted about 12 years. About a year and half ago I started getting the depression and eating disorder under control. And that is when my foot pain became bad! Up until now I thought it was a weird coincidence. I thought, “I just traded my eating disorder in for feet problems!” Little did I know that is probably exactly what happened. The eating disorder used to consume my life. Now the foot problems do.
A few other things that seem to fit TMS: Last year my foot problems cleared up for a bit and I had very little pain. During this time I started having left shoulder/arm pain. That went away when my foot problems came back.
Another thing: Do I have repressed anger? I get hardly EVER get angry. It is a very rare emotion for me. This summer I told this to a friend who had graduated with a psych degree. She said, “Oh you have anger, everyone does! It is just repressed.!” I thought this was silly and that I just don’t get angry. But is she right?
BUT, my problem right now is that the most recent type of foot pain- nerve-y tingling feelings, have reduced in the past 2 weeks since I have learned about this. It’s still there, but less. Or at least it is not worrying/bothering me as much? BUT, I now am dealing with ankle tendonitis issues. This was bothering me this summer a bit, but just recently became a lot more painful/bothersome. How do I not think about this pain when I feel it every time I stand/walk?
I guess my real question is, is this tendonitis pain due to overpronation/flat feet and how I walk? Or is it tms also? For some reason I am having a harder time accepting the tendonitis is tms than the nerve issues. I tried to do more and push through it, but that seems to leave me with more pain the next day. It seems worse after I have sat for a while and get up. Sometimes it is the outside of my ankle, sometimes the inside, and sometimes both.
So, if you actually read all of that, what do you think? Help!!!
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| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| marjrc |
Posted - 11/01/2010 : 20:54:23
Hello heelsdown, welcome to the world of TMS. :)
I too have foot pain now, though I've had countless other pain conditions more than half my life. I'm 46 now and am finally doing the TMS work so I can live free of pain. It is a journey and there are ups and downs, but forums like this one and the wiki one are great support. I think it is essential to read Dr. Sarno's books and any other source of TMS information and reinforcement you can get your hands/eyes on.
Like Back2-it, I also caught that you hadn't ever really expressed anger or other emotions when your father passed away. I do not think it is a coincidence that you started an eating disorder around the age of 12, as well as pain and depression.
I see a psychologist and it helps me get some of my feelings out, though Dr. Sarno says it's not necessary to 'fix' the anger, deal with it and resolve it. It is simply enough to accept that it is there and that the brain is distracting us from acknowledging that by forcing us to focus on pain (or anxiety, depression, IBS, ...).
You are progressing very well and I am happy to read about your walks and runs and how you handle situations w/o really thinking about your pain and previous limitations. It does open up a whole lot of the world, doesn't it? :) Keep up the good work!! |
| Forfeet |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 14:46:39
Heels,
I get intermittent foot and ankle pain in many places and as I've posted I work on my feet for a living. I used to pay very close attention to all these pains and wonder what was going on and what it might mean structurally, etc. Since taking a TMS approach, I usually don't dwell on them very much and they usually fade away in hours or days, although I struggle with certain areas that are more resistant as I've also posted about. I also notice that when I get preoccupied with pain on another area of the body or just get focused on other people or conversation or activity, that the pain I was originally focusing on goes away also. To me, all evidence of the mind's effect on how pain is manifested and to what level of intensity. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 14:24:05
Hey heelsdown....
From your first post...
quote:
She said, “Oh you have anger, everyone does! It is just repressed.!” I thought this was silly and that I just don’t get angry. But is she right?
Everybody does have anger to some degree, repressed.
I also caught the part about your father dying when you were 12, and that you never properly dealt with it.
I can tell you when a parent dies young and never sees the you you have become in life (college grad, for instance), it creates an anger. Not necessarily at him, but at yourself or even others.
My father died young, too. I had anger directed at my mother, poor thing, as I was very close to my father. I once said to her that "dad will never see what I will do or accomplish or marry". She answered that she would, and a very hurtful and mean me said "it wouldn't be the same". I live with that spear every day of my life, though my mother is long gone too.
Your ongoing troubles could be very well due to an anger of this type. Not dealing with one of the biggest traumas of life (death of a parent) can bend a person out of shape and manifest with TMS.
Interestingly, a person could equate not dealing with it as running away; and what do we run with?
Good luck!
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| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 14:07:46
Heels,
Dr. Sarno would say that you are catching onto the TMS and therefore your "brain" (inner child, whatever), is trying to fool you with new symptoms. VERY common and considered a good sign toward recovery. I have been recovering for 7 years and I am well into my successes, and I still get "new" symptoms pop up.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
The difficult we do right away, the impossible just takes a little longer. |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 12:13:22
So, I just thought this was funny and wanted to share...
First off, I still am struggling with not knowing whether some of my pain is surgery-related real, or TMS.
BUT, something funny happened yesterday. I went running to try to challenge the "maybe tms, maybe not" pain. The pain was okay, maybe a little bit better than it has been, but still there. The funny thing was though, that I started having knee pain on that run!!
Let me explain why this is funny. About a week ago I was running and noticing my foot pain. And while I was running I thought to myself, "interesting I have never had knee pain." I was hard-pressed to even be able to imagine knee pain because my knees have always felt good. Last week I also figured out that I am slightly bow-legged, and thought that might give me some sort of knee pain (even though it never has in the past!). Well, yesterday I got knee pain for the first time ever!
Hahahahaha. I ran through it. And it doesn't worry me. So I'm sure it will leave. I just thought that was great. Sneaky tms... or not so sneaky? B/c I know the game now!
Also, this morning I got bad inner right ankle pain, which I have NEVER had before. I just woke up and got out of bed and there it was. Funny stuff this tms. |
| Forfeet |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 02:30:12
Hi Heelsdown,
Just want you to know that you are not alone with your foot pain. I've had my own for the last 2 + years. So as not to hijack your post, I will post my own thread about my ordeal and hopefully you can gain some knowledge from my issues.
I'm happy to hear that you have been able to exercise and at least it is not making anything worse. I know it can be very tough to have faith and persevere when the pain is present. And don't be too hard on yourself as you are tying to treat this as TMS yet still fighting the doubts. As they say in 12 step groups, progress not perfection.
I'm assuming you are reading The Divided Mind by Sarno and other doctors. Many of the chapters by other doctors are also very helpful. There are more than a couple of stories about people who have successfully overcome foot and/or leg pain. By the way, in your first post you spoke of flat feet. I have a coworker (in a job where we are on our feet all day) who says his arches collapsed several years ago and he rarely has any foot pain-far less than I do, that is for sure. Don't know if you've had any psychotherapy and whether that has had any effect on this pain in the last couple of years. Good luck and I hope to provide continued support as another trying to overcome foot pain.
Forfeet |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 10/13/2010 : 22:01:30
YES! Still making progress.
Have pretty much gotten rid of the "tendonitis." It still likes to come back sometimes, especially after I have been sitting. But it has generally vanished during exercise!
After the tendonitis mostly went away, I started having pains in other areas of my feet! Bad at times, but I just ignored them, and they haven't really persisted.
So, for the past week or two I have been walking every evening. About and hour and half, give or take. And this week I have started incorporating little runs. Short distances, then a break, etc. Increasing it a bit every day. Even though it has been a little bit painful. I am just pushing through it b/c it does not seem to make the pain any worse! Today I probably ran close to a mile (with walking breaks thrown in). If you asked me a month ago if I would be able to run, I definately wouldn't have thought I could!
So, what I am battling with now is some pain/stiffness I am having in the area of my feet that I had surgery last year. One foot is 8 months out and the other is 4 months out. I am not sure if this is actually due to the surgery, or TMS, or maybe TMS making it worse? I do know that it hasn't gotten worse with more activity. Maybe even better. But I really don't know if it is TMS. So, I am TRYING to act like it is. Some days I do well, others not... I obsess and then I think, "well, this obsessing really IS TMS, whether the pain is or not!!"
My other problem is standing. Sill giving me pain. But I can walk/run for an hour and half without pain! So that doesn't make sense, does it?? So, I am trying not to worry about it, and hopefully it will go away. I went to a party the other night where there was a lot of standing and it was painful. Tried not to worry though, but I did have to sit down at points b/c the pain was getting too bad. The GOOD thing though about going to that party was that before I went, I didn't even think about the pain. Usually, the pain would factor into a decision like that. But it didn't really even cross my mind when I decided to go to the party.
Having my ups and downs, but definately having breakthroughs I think, and today felt GOOD! |
| Dave |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 10:50:17
quote:
Originally posted by heelsdown
I think I had a breakthrough today too. I tried not to think about the pain as much.
Ultimately this is the most important step. |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 10/09/2010 : 02:32:29
Thanks for the advice guys!
You are right that I need to act as if I don't have doubt, even if I do. That's what I have been trying to do. Trying to walk normally and not give in to the pain and limp. That will only reinforce it. And it is so weird. I have tendon pain in the morning at work and after work. I come home and rest for a few hours. Then go on a nice walk with my music, and I generally have a LOT less pain during my walk than the rest of the day. TMS much?
I think I had a breakthrough today too. I tried not to think about the pain as much. It's hard, but I think I made a little progress. I tried not to let it worry me as much. Early in the day I had a lot of pain, BUT on the walk this evening, I had the least amount of pain yet. I walked for an hour. Had a bounce in my step. Ran a tiny bit, just to push myself. I had a little pain and didn't want to go too far and scare myself. So I didn't run very much at all. Just wanted to prove I could do it. When I got back from my walk I had a little pain again though. But it didn't bother me as much. THEN some other areas of my foot started getting twinges of pain. Places where I have had bad pain before. So I got scared for a minute. But then realized it was most likely TMS and tried to laugh it off. I hope it does not try to return tomorrow. |
| Dave |
Posted - 10/08/2010 : 10:01:47
quote:
Originally posted by heelsdown
How do I get the doubt out of my brain?
You can't.
So do the next best thing: act as if you have no doubt.
Treat the symptoms as TMS, despite any doubts you may have. Do the work. The results will come, maybe more slowly than you would like, but they will come. Hopefully that will reinforce your belief. |
| Darko |
Posted - 10/07/2010 : 20:32:00
Heels,
The universe works in funny ways……if you NEED something to totally convince you then you certainly won’t get it. If you have faith and know that it is so then you will see plenty to reinforce the belief………that’s my experience anyway.
How do you get the doubt out of your brain??? YOU DON’T! Remember what I said before? What you resist persists, the more you fight against something the more energy you give it. ALLOW it, accept it. The key here is ( listen up cause this bit is important ) YOU DON’T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT!!!! It’s just some BS story in your mind……just bubbling up based on past events. Humans make the mistake of thinking that what goes on in the head is right….and true.
Question: Would you live and create a life for yourself based on the things you learned 5-20 years ago? I can tell you that I am much wiser today that I was 5 years ago……yet that’s what we do everyday. We live based on the crap in our minds, which formed beliefs based on things that happened years ago. You’re living in the past maaaaan………contemporise!
In order to live life based on the most current wisdom we have and with new beliefs it takes conscious effort. The relationship with the mind is like having a partner, they love you and want good things for you, but not completely at their own expense or sacrifice. There is always some self interest and manipulation, that’s just humans! SO, my point? You have to create the belief and commitment and stop believing the BS story of doubt. It might continue to come up for a long time, but just thank the mind for sharing. Say “oh there’s that doubt story again” and then let it go and tell yourself something opposite. Sarno says talk to the brain…..you have to dominate that crazy brain or life will suck! You either live the way you choose or life will be lived through you.
This means conscious effort everyday. If I get too busy, don’t stay in control and take time out from what is happening in my head I start to ‘buy into’ the outside world and the rubbish in my head…..
If you think you can read a post and change the way you live you're kidding yourself. You have to put in place a process that has you stay on track everyday. As MattNJ said.......find what works and stick to it.....and having a mind that keeps feeding you rubbish thoughts....which you believe simply doesn't work.
Having said that, don't believe anything I say.....hell I don't even believe it......I just judge things on the results, and this way of living is giving me better results. Give it a try
D
PS. I hope this give you some clarity, if not just let me know |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 10/06/2010 : 14:23:00
Heels,
Sounds like you got it to me! SO sorry, but clearly you have recognized it and based on your post, already working on it. so that is REALLY GOOD NEWS. I was 43 when I figured it out!
My biggest piece of advise is:
When you find what works, stick with it and COMMIT to it, even after you are feeling better. Otherwise , it comes BACK!
Next: the TMSWIKI will be hosting a free, TMS Success Stories LIVE Panel, on Sunday October 17th at 12:00 EDT. Please join us. All you need is a computer to log in.
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/TMS+Success+Stories+-+Live+Panel
Here is a bunch of stuff:
My success story is here:
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/account/MatthewNJ
AND
although I haven't read unlearn your pain yet, I have heard interviews with Dr. Schubiner and lots of kudos. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about.
AND
Here is Dr. David Clarke's book. I am reading this one now:
“they Can’t find anything wrong” Dr.Clarke He treated what he calls “stress Illness” (TMS) from 1985 - 2009 and is currently retired and teaching other physicians about how to diagnose and treat it. He is also one of the TMSWIKI professionals. You can read about him on the TMSWIKI.
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/account/Dave.Clarke
Here is an amazon link to his book:
http://www.amazon.com/They-Cant-Find-Anything-Wrong/dp/1591810647/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286395391&sr=8-1
AND
I got a great deal from Dr. Peter A. Levine. the reason I like this one so much, is because his process fit me. And it comes with a program on CD. It taught me to recognize symptoms (Sensory Experience) and acting on them quickly. Like when you recognized the vaginal itching, thought about it being TMS and it went away. That is VERY empowering when that happens. And I can tell you, the more it happens, the more it happens!
this is his book:
Healing Trauma: A Pioneering Program for Restoring the Wisdom of Your Body . This comes with a CD and a program.
here is the amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Trauma-Pioneering-Program-Restoring/dp/159179658X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286395509&sr=1-1
I hope some of this helps.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
The difficult we do right away, the impossible just takes a little longer. |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 10/06/2010 : 12:22:56
Darko,
Thanks for your response again!
And ughhhhhhhhh.... I know I sound a little uncommitted! The thing is, I want to be SO committed. TMS makes total sense to me when no physical explanation has.
But I keep doubting it. The nerve pain I was more certain about, and it has reduced a lot. But for some reason this tendonitis pain has me questioning it over and over. I need something to totally convince me that the tendonitis is tms, but I don't know what that might be.
How do I get the doubt out of my brain? I am reading everyday and thinking/writing about my feelings. And I think the thing that is really impeeding me is the doubt. Sometimes I get fairly convinced that the tendonitis IS DEFINATELY TMS, but then I have more pain and get scared that it isn't. I wish I had a doctor in northern CA to diagnose me! I think that would help solidify it for me.
Any advice? |
| Darko |
Posted - 10/06/2010 : 00:16:56
I get back pain in the morning around 3am.......once I get up have a shower the pain is usually about 70-80% less then the pain of that night, if you know what I mean. One morning it's lower back the next it's middle back and then the next it could be on my right side.
Movement is part of the gig. One thing I would like to mention is that you sound a little uncommitted to the TMS thing........and that's cool, but it's going to work against you if you want a result in the long run.
quote:
I am going to keep working on this and keep trying to reinforce for myself that this IS tms
This is classic stuff! The mind is a sneaky little sh*t, if you give it any room with this then you won't even get to the battle ground.
Like anything in life.....100% commitment is the key to success.
D |
| heelsdown |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 23:10:49
Hi Darko and golden girl!
Thank you for your replies/support!
Well, I am trying to push through the "tendonitis" pain. Today it seems a bit better than yesterday. Or, at least it is not mentally bothering me as much b/c I am more certain it is TMS? And not harmful?
It is weird though. It is always worse in the morning. Today I went on an hour walk in the afternoon and felt pretty decent. Tried to ignore any pain there was. Throughout the day the pain moved around a bit. From the outside of my ankle to the inside to the middle outside of my foot. And then in my right ankle some. Oh, and then into my left arch. This seems to happen to me often, and I always just saw it as different areas of my feet hurting b/c of my biomechanics. But now I am looking at is as "why would those different areas hurt at different times? It must be tms moving about!"
Annnnnd, on my walk I noticed that I started thinking about something emotionally painful and I immediately had pain. So I just tried to keep thinking about that thing and tell myself it was okay to feel how I did. I still had a little pain that seemed to come and go for the rest of the walk. But I thought it was interesting when it appeared.
Another thing... kind of gross, but the other day I started having some vaginal itching. Then realized it might be tms. And then it went away!
Also, on my walk today when I had less foot pain, I noticed my stomach acting up. This also happened on a previous walk where I had less foot pain than normal.
Is this all tms going crazy and trying to move around? Maybe, maybe not. But I guess it is possible!
Anyway, thanks for your replies!! I am going to keep working on this and keep trying to reinforce for myself that this IS tms. |
| golden_girl |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 21:47:05
Hi Heelsdown!
A book that is helping me so much is: http://www.unlearnyourpain.com/index.php?Unlearn%20Your%20Pain%20Book
(I've known about TMS for over 3 years, and known I had "TMS" for over 10 - I've actually had it for 20 years since I was 9!)
I've read so many books on TMS and surrounding ideas, and this book is a combination of all the best bits. I'm only in the first stages, but I was in a major flare up of symptoms when I started reading and following it, and I feel so much better already.
For me, Dr Schubiner's book is the most modern, informative, inclusive (ie not just concentrating on pain à la Sarno) and straightforward book I've read on the subject - with an actual 4 week programme on dealing with TMS.
Basically, without sounding like an infommercial - this is the book I wish I'd read first!
Darko's right, you sound very bright and you are on the right path, and don't get bogged down in the repressed anger. Constant negative thoughts and personality traits and just general worry can all create TMS.
Best of luck! 
"F.E.A.R.
Forgive Everyone And Remember
For Everything A Reason"
Ian Brown |
| Darko |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 21:00:19
Hey Heels,
I can relate a GREAT deal to you, we seem to have heaps of the same personality traits........then again most of us in this forum do :-) As for asking us if your pain is TMS related.......I would say this is pointless. I think you already know it is! What is happening is your mind is hanging on to the little bit of doubt you have in order to keep the condition real for you. Look, if the doctors can't make sense of it, and parts of your personality are the same as mine, and you're not in touch with your emotions as well as you could be (anger) Then I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I'm willing to bet money on the fact you have TMS.
I also worry....especially about money and my pain moves and changes.
One tip I will give you, don't assume the source of your pain is ALL repressed emotions. I know Sarno says it's repressed anger....and it might be for most people, ( there people that will strongly disagree with this statement, but don't let that fool you. We TMSers can be obsessive at times and you will start to see that in peoples posts :-) ) however I'm on my third onset....which is getting better, and I have learned that TMS is very dynamic, and a little different for some people, so don't rule things out because someone says so! I find most, if not all my pain these days comes from my day-to-day rubbish thoughts! Worry....especially about money, stress really give me physical hell....but not emotional.
For me it has been a real journey of faith....not in a religious way, but more spiritual. The more faith I develop, the more I understand that things will be ok and the less I stress about money or whatever. I have tried many different things and in the end having a belief that things will workout fine seems to calm my crazy thoughts the most. Future goal oriented pressure is something you should also watch out for!
As for your depression and state of mind, do yourself a favour and read some of my recent posts on my morning ritual and supplements I take. I was VERY depressed at the start of the year....mostly because of lack of sleep, but other reasons also. The supplements have been KEY to me getting on track.....and they're all natural!
You sound like a bright girl, and you're on the right path. Don't become attached to healing or upset by your condition. The more you focus on it the more you "buy into it". Also the more you resist it the more it persists. I know it sucks to walk when you're in pain, but rest easy in the knowledge that your thought patterns are creating the pain, you can change it and there is nothing physically wrong with you.
Learn to ease and calm your mind and thoughts.....DO NOT start obsessing about TMS and healing yourself......I did that for years......epic fail.....this is the start of a journey that will help you grow as a person, embrace it!
Good luck and welcome
D |
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