| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| zhtan1 |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 07:00:40
Hi all, I'm fairly new to TMS which I now find amazing seeing as I have had fairly classic TMS symptoms for 18 years and no-one has ever mentioned mind-body theories to me! So imagine my excitement when I came across Sarno about 2 months ago. I have read his books, re- read and have started to take to the next level (have recently seen a TMS practitioner here in the UK who confirmed TMS, and have started to do some journaling). I have certainly seen some significant improvement on the pain front but I have had some relapses. This doesn't concern me as I know I have had this for so long, my mind and body are very used to the status quo and it will take time to break the pattern. I am on a journey and actually think the longer it takes (within reason) the more stable and long lasting will the recovery be. I am starting to understand myself for the first time.
But here's my issue. I have had for 18 years fairly low grade back pain that has resisted all classic type treatments, and as I say I have seen significant improvement in the past few weeks. I also have IBS from time to time and I also have poor temperature control. I get hot and start to sweat quite a bit for little or no reason. I am sure both the IBS and the sweating are TMS equivalents. The latter causes me great anxiety particulalry linked to work situations. And the more anxious I am the more the back pain returns (usually every Monday morning when I wake up for work!). Now this isn't subconscious its very conscious indeed, I am pretty sure what I am anxious about. And so it doesn't seem to fit the Sarno theory. I definitely do have supressed emotions that the journaling, etc etc are helping with and I am gradually learning to recognise/confront/accept those emotions rather than supress. But the direct anxiety caused by the TMS symptoms themselves appears to be a kind of secondary or layered effect. Should I ingore and just work on the supressed emotions, or should I also be tackling the anxiety itself.
Sorry for long winded opener, but this is becoming a bit of a blocker for me. Thanks for any input. Jon |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Darko |
Posted - 10/25/2010 : 16:33:54
Dude......nice post |
| PRCalDude |
Posted - 10/25/2010 : 12:26:58
Guys,
I just want to re-iterate a point (I think) I've made in the past. Sarno is very caught-up in Freudian thinking which really plays no part in modern psychology. This is not to say that Sarno is wrong about mind-body illnesses. He's quite right and everyone here agrees. The major disagreement people have is in how to go about tackling the psychology of it.
Freud's theories were found to be unscientific or unsupported by research which is why they were discarded. Cognitive behavioral therapy is much more effective but even that is giving way to 3rd-wave therapies like ACT. "The Happiness Trap" explains these very well and is very helpful.
I think part of the reason people get so stuck is that Sarno creates some unrealistic expectations about the time horizon for recovery in his book. Sure, his patients may recover quickly because of his charisma, but other TMS doctors don't have his bedside manner.
Also, Sarno tells you in some instances to "talk to the pain" and tell it to go away alongside his advicec to just "accept the diagnosis." Here, I think, is where many stumble. The advice to "talk to the pain" or forcefully telling it to go away just results in a constant mental struggle for many people that just feeds into the TMS. The people who get well quickly just accept that there's nothing structurally wrong so that their pain seems less real to them and they distance themselves from the thoughts their brain produces that feed into the TMS. The way in which people distance themselves from these scary thoughts about the pain is right along the lines of what these 3rd-wave ACT therapy psychologists advocate. Fighting with thoughts about the pain only re-inforces them, but distancing yourself from them lets them fade into the background and causes them to gradually disappear. I think the latter is what Sarno means.
To create distance from your thoughts Hillbilly's strategy is pretty helpful: notice how your pain corresponds to your emotional state (write it down, if you must) and go over the reasons why you know your diagnosis is TMS and not structural. The more you understand the psychological triggers for your pain the more you'll ignore your brain's TMS strategy and the less scary your pain will seem, and ironically the less you'll have.
Also, try to keep in mind that you're goal is to do the things you value, not necessarily to get rid of your pain. You can lead a value-driven, productive life even if you have pain and many do it. So don't worry so much about getting rid of the pain. |
| alexis |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 13:09:24
Hi zhtan1 - I think you're probably dead on about dealing with two interrelated issues.
First you have TMS, distraction symptoms, you let steer you away from ... something. Then you have anxiety, triggered by the TMS, or perhaps stemming from other unrelated bio-psychological issues. And then you have anxiety induced physical responses. And then, maybe, you respond to anxiety by trying to distract... or did the anxiety come first…or a real pain…
A great big circle and you may never know the “source”. From my own perception it wouldn't hurt to tackle both aspects at once (classic anxiety and distraction/conversion). But if you take the "anxiety as equivalent" stance (which I don't) you may run into a conflict in theory. And same if you take the other extreme where “everything is a symptom of anxiety”.
Most people here fit one of the above 3 theoretical positions, so you’ll get at least that many answers. :)
|
| avik |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 12:35:31
quote:
Originally posted by zhtan1
Hi all, I'm fairly new to TMS which I now find amazing seeing as I have had fairly classic TMS symptoms for 18 years and no-one has ever mentioned mind-body theories to me! So imagine my excitement when I came across Sarno about 2 months ago. I have read his books, re- read and have started to take to the next level (have recently seen a TMS practitioner here in the UK who confirmed TMS, and have started to do some journaling). I have certainly seen some significant improvement on the pain front but I have had some relapses. This doesn't concern me as I know I have had this for so long, my mind and body are very used to the status quo and it will take time to break the pattern. I am on a journey and actually think the longer it takes (within reason) the more stable and long lasting will the recovery be. I am starting to understand myself for the first time.
But here's my issue. I have had for 18 years fairly low grade back pain that has resisted all classic type treatments, and as I say I have seen significant improvement in the past few weeks. I also have IBS from time to time and I also have poor temperature control. I get hot and start to sweat quite a bit for little or no reason. I am sure both the IBS and the sweating are TMS equivalents. The latter causes me great anxiety particulalry linked to work situations. And the more anxious I am the more the back pain returns (usually every Monday morning when I wake up for work!). Now this isn't subconscious its very conscious indeed, I am pretty sure what I am anxious about. And so it doesn't seem to fit the Sarno theory. I definitely do have supressed emotions that the journaling, etc etc are helping with and I am gradually learning to recognise/confront/accept those emotions rather than supress. But the direct anxiety caused by the TMS symptoms themselves appears to be a kind of secondary or layered effect. Should I ingore and just work on the supressed emotions, or should I also be tackling the anxiety itself.
Sorry for long winded opener, but this is becoming a bit of a blocker for me. Thanks for any input. Jon
ZHTAN-
Unfortunately I do not think I will be addressing your specific anxiety-layering issue, but I think this is something to consider regardless.
I have found that trying to tackle the myriad of TMS equivalents and side-effects on an individual basis, is an exercise in futility.
The macro approach works far better for me, albeit ONLY if I CONSISTENTLY do one thing; write.
When I say write, I mean really write. In my opinion, until you have nearly complete cessation of your symptoms, you should be journaling multiple times per day. I have find that most people i know battling TMS do not journal nearly enough. You should at least write twice a day regardless of symptoms (i do free writing in the morning for 15 minutes and targeted writing for about 15-30 minutes before i go to sleep).
However, when a pain arises, write at that very moment! Doesnt matter where you are-pull out a pen and paper, stop what you are doing, THINK PSYCHOLOGICALLY, and put your thoughts on paper! I cannot stress how important this is. The more you write, the more you force your emotions to the surface; repetition is the key.
Yes its a PITA and its time and energy consuming, but in relation, I find the pain to be far more time consuming...
Write until your wrists hurt and your eyes burn!
Finally, I view my writing as an escape from all that is going on around me and even though it help bring out my anger and makes me focus on all the crap in my life, its somehow very soothing. More importantly, I find this to really help with anxiety.
Anxiety is the effect, much like back pain or leg pain.
Focus on getting rid of the cause (emotions; anger, rage, sadness, etc) and the effect will go too (anxiety).
I wish you well.
Good luck. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 08:36:25
Good luck Zhtan1, I'm sure you'll do well and it will be a great adventure.
Cheers
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6415
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| zhtan1 |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 07:45:28
Hillbilly and tennis tom, many thanks for your input. I see you post here a lot and have picked up many good ideas and thoughts from the both of you. I have just received the Dr Dave Clarke book (they can't find anything wrong). I intend to do a TMS programme (there is one based in the Uk that has been recommended to me) and make sure I also look into relaxation/meditation techniques, etc to tackle the general anxiety at the same time. Lets see where it takes me
Thanks |
| guej |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 18:01:24
Hi Marsha!
I just got back from vacation. I'll reach out to you as soon as the kids are back in school, and off my back! I survived a 10 day trek through Canada. Tons of walking, canoeing, biking, etc. I definitely had pain on my most active days, but I don't remember it as being debilitating and it never stopped me from doing something. Sometimes, all I needed was to sit down for a few minutes and then I was good to go again. The change of scenery and keeping busy with fun things really took the edge off. Made me realize how much I associate pain with sitting around my house, with too much time to obsess over my symptoms. If only I could go on a permanent vacation! Hope you are doing well. |
| marsha |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 15:44:13
quej,
Me Too...
Thanks
Marsha |
| guej |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 08:48:13
Hillbilly, what a great analogy to the stray dog in the garage! I still credit the book you recommended "At Last, A Life" with helping me the most of all the books I've read. I re-read it often because old habits die hard, and obsessing over symptoms is still my most destructive habit. Sarno was right when he said ignore the symptoms. That book helped me to understand how to do just that. I'm not always successful, but I'm better at it than before. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 08:41:00
BRILLANT post Zhtan1! I've got to run off and play in a tennis tounament (believe it or not) so I can't give your post the time/thought it deserves--later.
But a few quick thoughts (and for TMS perhaps those are the best).
*Maybe think of your symptom as having been a gift of protection from dealing with an even more fearful imagined reality--a defense mechanism in psych terms.
*I have just finished listening to Dr. Sarno's Audiobook, (which I highly recommend) and he says to "treat" affective TMS disorders such as anxiety and depression. I don't know exactly how he says to treat them but perhaps through conventional methods which could be medications, used as a temporary emotional "pain killer", as he would recommend for physical pain to help get you through until the TMS reconditioning process sinks through the subconscious. But this is with the understanding that the cause of the affective symptom is not organic but instead TMS.
I totaly agree with your outlook on TMS. It is a journey of self-discovery and enlightenment, not an overnight band-aid "cure". It is part of the human condition. The "cure" is the "knowlege penicillin" leading to overcoming FEAR of living.
Cheers
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6415
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
|
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 07:40:33
quote:
And the more anxious I am the more the back pain returns (usually every Monday morning when I wake up for work!). Now this isn't subconscious its very conscious indeed, I am pretty sure what I am anxious about. And so it doesn't seem to fit the Sarno theory. I definitely do have supressed emotions that the journaling, etc etc are helping with and I am gradually learning to recognise/confront/accept those emotions rather than supress. But the direct anxiety caused by the TMS symptoms themselves appears to be a kind of secondary or layered effect.
zhtan1,
My experience is contrary to the books Sarno has written also, but I believe the newer generation of docs who he has trained are beginning to treat this holistically as a stress problem, most notably anxious thoughts and belief patterns that keep the body in a state of upset. You might want to read Howard Schubiner's book to see if you identify more readily with his explanation.
Read Claire Weekes and Abraham Low, anything you can get your hands on. Read them so that you take your time and realize what they are telling you is that ALL of your symptoms are nervous in origin, not organic or illness-related, and your symptoms are nothing at all except a stray dog in the garage that you wish would go away but you keep feeding, so it stays.
Best of luck!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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