| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 15:01:36
My first post, although I have read the forum a lot, and have benefited from others posts and advice.
A little background: I "injured" my back around 10 years ago and went through what I am sure most of us on the board have gone through: sciatica, severe pain, cannot walk properly, no exercise, etc. and then the back specialists, chiropractors, PTs, etc. with no, and contradictory reasons, for the pain. Needless to say nothing helped. I suffered like this for 11 months and I then came across Dr. Sarno's book. I never did the journaling, saw a therapist or the like- I did what he suggested and stopped all PT, heating pads etc. I was back in the gym doing what I wanted not long afterwards. I should say that I have a herniated disc at L2-S5 (I think it is L2-S5 as I have forgotten) that showed up on an MRI.
Fast-forward a few pain free years until one day I was jogging very lightly and them boom ! My back again. Same pain. Cannot walk. Cannot sit for more than a few minutes. This time I said, "no way", not physical. I read the forum and someone said Sarno says with an episode like this take some pain meds and stay in bed. I skipped the pain meds but stayed in bed for the weekend and by Tuesday I was in the gym doing jiu-jitsu (wrestling) two days after not being able to walk without being hunched over.
Fast forward a few pain free years and again another episode. This time I was lifting weights and switched where I place my hands on the barbell while doing dead lifts. I said, "not again" and began to question TMS as the culprit until I read the forum again and read that a post saying the brain is so smart it picks the best moments to start the pain cycle, i.e. it will pick a moment that it is very difficult for one to say that one was not "injured." In my case I questioned TMS because I was lifting with my back and switched my hands for the first time. I did not give in and did the same thing as last time: I took it easy for a few days and was soon back in the gym pain free.
Looking back on these episodes I remember the very first time was an extremely difficult time for me: painful breakup with a girlfriend, father dying, dead end job.
The second occasion was during the time I had a bad manager at work, could not receive what I thought was a well deserved promotion and the feeling of being unappreciated with my work. I was extremely angry with my manager who basically lied to me.
This time it is different as this episode is going on its third week. The last two were for two days. I did nothing out of the ordinary to cause an injury to my back. I have a good idea of what is causing me emotional pain currently. I am concerned because the duration of the pain is long and the severity of the pain is bad. I cannot walk properly and I cannot sit down for a long period.
I am desperate to return to physical activity but my back is stopping me.
Do I go to the doctor? Is it now physical? Do I keep trying to ignore the pain? Do I do what I can with the pain? Why is it not going away like the two last times? Anybody with similar recurring episodes?
Any advice/suggestions is very appreciated.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| FSecondo |
Posted - 06/29/2010 : 12:01:45
Wanted to day that I am back in the gym with no back pain !! Still have aching pain in my leg and dull numbness in my arm, but nothing near what my back was giving me before. Thanks to everyone. This forum really, really helped me.
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| Fox |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 07:35:36
Hillbilly - that was dang good advice! |
| FSecondo |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 06:57:18
Thanks Hillbilly. I will take your advice. (I did feel very strange yelling at myself.) |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 09:18:19
Perhaps try not reacting to the pain as you did when you "yelled at your brain to stop." Ignoring the pain and yelling at your brain are polar opposites. You can't ignore your pain and lessen its effect on you if you are standing at the ready to scream when it kicks it up a notch. For this reason, I wholeheartedly disagree with the advice to yell at your brain.
Instead of staying alert and ready to react to pain, try your best to just keep going at a steady pace. If it gets rough, take a short break, but go back to it. Avoidance behaviors and strong emotional reactions to pain or other bodily stress responses are your only enemies. Let it be there without allowing yourself an emotional reaction. You may feel like it is borderline torture to accept, but do it anyway. There is nothing on the other side except freedom. Stay focused on your goal of returning to activity, albeit with a lessened expectation for now, and stay with it and accomplish the goal no matter what, no excuses. Slow and steady will get you there, pain or no pain.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| FSecondo |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 08:06:41
Went to see a TMS doctor of Friday. He spent 1 ˝ hours with me ! (When is the last time a doctor spent more than 15 minutes with you?) He diagnosed me with TMS (no surprise.) He told me to go back to the gym and do what I can.
I felt great at home after the appointment- I actually tied my shoes for the first time in 4 weeks. I felt so good I went out Friday night, had a great time, and decided to go to the gym and lift weights no matter what on Saturday. I woke up Saturday and felt horrible, but this time the pain switched to my hip. I yelled at my brain in the car on the way to the gym saying I am lifting weights no matter what, so let’s make this pleasurable for both of us. Unfortunately, this didn’t work. In the gym my back was as stiff and as painful as ever, but I plowed through it. I was hoping to have a breakthrough after the gym, but this didn’t happen.
I am saying to myself that I will do the work with my therapist no matter what, even if I am pain free tomorrow, so why is my unconscious mind still not letting go?
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 09:54:09
quote:
Originally posted by FSecondo
...I feel steady improvement and cannot wait for the morning I get up with zero pain.
Congratulations on your TMS breakthrough! It bares noting that your goal of "zero pain" is a TMS "perfectionist trait". TMS is part of the human condition. To have some discomfort or pain is normal. The goal is not to let it stop you from doing what you want.
I'm grateful that when I wake up in the morning, my shoulder hurts but my hip pain is getting better. I have recently experienced a classic case of symptom substitution and am grateful to the TMS gods for providing me with it. The only thing I use my left arm for is tossing the tennis ball for the serve, and it does not hinder that at all. My hip has gotten better and is no longer my TMS's constant focus. With the Good Doctor's penicillin knowledge, I have fooled the TMS gremlin.
I just wanted to point out that setting goals of "zero pain" may create TMS pressure of perfection and bring up the tension in the reservoir. Leave room for a little pain that goes away with some warm-up or doesn't hinder your "steady improvement". I find the path of "steady improvement" to be as, or more, rewarding and wonderous as the getting there. Some day I'm sure I'll be happy if I can get up at all in the morning.
Keep up the good work FSecondo!
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| FSecondo |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 08:57:44
Wanted to give an update.
The TMS doc that I am going to see wants an MRI. Because of insurance purposes I went to see a back specialist, in order to get the MRI, who gave me the usual five minute examination. I told him that I have a herniated disc at L5 S1 from 15 years ago. He did not want an MRI; he gave me a prescription for muscle relaxant and for physical therapy. I asked him if he was concerned about the disc and whether he wants an MRI. He said that I “flared up” the disc- whatever that means- and that he is not overly concerned with “only three weeks of back pain.” He even left the follow up appointment up to me.
I take this as a 100% certainty that the cause of the back pain is TMS. The doctor is not concerned enough to order an MRI, gives me medicine and PT and leaves it up to me if I want to make a follow up appointment. He said my muscles are in spasm because of the “disc flare up.” I am EXTREMELY thankful for my knowledge of TMS and this forum, for if I were someone with no knowledge of TMS, I would have left his office devastated. As it stands now, I feel steady improvement and cannot wait for the morning I get up with zero pain.
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| catspine |
Posted - 05/28/2010 : 16:03:09
quote:
FSecondo quote:
...it will hurt anyway so why not do what you want. (that is more my personality.)
Tempting isn't it?
Yes you'll be able to do what you want but maybe you need to solve the problem that may have some to do with the personality first of course: In my experience sometimes the body had enough of what the mind wants and starts to react accordingly. Its friend (the unconscious mind) will gladly give it the help it needs to let you know that you've reached the limit of what it will tolerate.
Up to a certain point doing what you want regardless of the warnings you receive is feasible but again what is the need to suffer through this (that would sound like punishment for doing what you want)the pain you feel now seems more like an alarm signal that indicates that the balance that you enjoyed has been broken somehow and until it is repaired it will stay on or with some luck it will just go on and off for some time.
I'm glad to read that you feel something positive is happening or I would suggest that after a while of ignoring the pain there should be some improvement or changes should happen if you're on the right path, any lack of it should be discussed with your TMS doctor or therapist to see what's going on.
When the mind becomes subject to intense dilemmas the body's muscles and nerves and tendons start to behave like a crowd of people impressed by what politicians are promising, there is a lot each individuals can relate to in all the different speeches but as only one candidate can win people are torn. If there is no confusion at best decisions and executions will be placed on hold for a while and sorted out later. Usually In the mean time there is a lot of tension due to uncertainty and to the prospect of change until peace and balance is restored.
Then regardless of what the formula really is as long as it is satisfactory to the forces at play things will work out for the best once a decision is made and if it doesn't then the decision was probably not as good for everyone as it should have been.
Pretty much the same thing happens during the process of recovery from a condition. The body has needs and the minds have wants and as long as all of them disagree it will result in tensions proportional to the emotional issues which of course will sustain the pain.
Flexibility can greatly improve the situation because it creates an alternative to the stiffer limitations settings commonly used as guide lines in decision making and certain things will therefore become possible where it used to be out of the question before. Because it is often in short supply some flexibility can be taken out from areas where it is hardly ever used and applied to issues where it is critically needed until a solution to the problem at hand is found.
Understanding comes with time and the pain can be misleading enough to cut corners. Be patient.
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| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/28/2010 : 07:25:28
Thanks catspine. I appreciate the thoughts. I am muscling through my days and it is getting better. I only have the excruciating pain when I bend at the waist or try to lift my leg when I am sitting.
I am doing what Sarno and others here have advised: thinking psychologically, ignoring (as much as possible) the pain, not becoming depressed/anxious because I cannot do what I want (I am accepting this episode as a chance to do things I never would normally do), seeing a TMS doctor, keeping a journal and seeing a therapist.
I just was not sure if I should just push myself no matter how much it hurt.
I did read another post where someone said that it will hurt anyway so why not do what you want. (that is more my personality.)
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| catspine |
Posted - 05/28/2010 : 01:58:26
Fsecondo
No need to suffer extra pain I would say the one that is already there is "good" enough so you can deal with that first and see how it goes to begin with . For one thing if you are on the right track the pain may disappear in the process and the extra suffering would not be necessary anyways...it may be easier just to find what is causing the uproar in your unconscious or what does the trick to lower the pain. In one of his books Dr' Sarno said he sometimes prescribes pain killers against severe pain for a short while to help with functioning.
If pain can get in the way of thinking straight then nothing works .
If it is TMS the pain serves a purpose aimed at making you focus on your symptoms and your unconscious brain is just as smart as you are to get it done. At the onset of the pain it is important to identify the symptoms for what they really are and to have a strategy ready to deal with them . It may take a while to identify the one that works best for you but you'll get better at it once you get a clue.
Instead of imposing to yourself more "physical torture" if you must wait until then maybe you can address the emotional part until you get further help from your TMS doctor which I suppose will be more specific .
About the pain while driving and no pain while sitting in front of computer an example of an approach would be to consider the potential for your destination or for the possible reluctance to going somewhere you resent that always involves driving as a cause for tension which will inevitably lead pain down the line.
I remember a very painful episode of getting completely stuck while maneuvering on a parking lot. I was unable to make the slightest move, my engine was running, I had my foot on the clutch and for more than 45 minutes I couldn't do anything at all without screaming from the pain until I finally somehow tried to consciously release the tense muscles involved and got enough out of it to move my truck 20 feet farther. I was still paralyzed from the waist down 3 weeks later, at the time I had no idea it was TMS. The good news is I do not have anymore back problems but it took a long time and a few more terrible episodes after this one to find out why and how to fix it for good.
Also as I read your recent post it appears that there are many things you haven't tried yet that other members have success with . Maybe a new approach will be necessary this time if your unconscious brain learned from the last times...
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| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 09:16:30
I feel that I have been steadily improving from the onset of the latest acute attack 13 days ago thanks in part to this forum. However, I still experience excruciating lower back nerve pain that turns into muscle pain when I drive. It also is excruciating to put my socks on or bend my back.
I was thinking, though, what is the difference between driving and sitting at my desk? Why can I sit at my desk for an extended period but have a tough time driving? Is it conditioning? I appreciate any thoughts.
Also, would anyone recommend me bending my back no matter what the pain? I mean do I do it and scream? Will this break the hold my unconscious mind is placing on me?
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| Dave |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 08:24:07
Yes. Carpal tunnel (and other repetitive stress injury) is often TMS. |
| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 20:52:45
Dave and others,
I wanted to add something to this latest bout with TMS. A few weeks before this latest acute attack my right arm, I'm right handed, started to throb, tingle and ache for no reason. My sister who is a doctor said I had classic signs of carpal tunnel syndrome- pain, tingling in hand, being awakened at night, etc. I had an EMG and it came out negative- no nerve problems at all. I switched arms for work, I work in an office on a computer all day, and started to use my left hand with the mouse. Now, I have no real bad pain, but my right hand tingles and itches. I never thought of TMS for this until now.
Could it be that because I beat TMS in the lower back before that my brain picked my right arm to "attack" and when I didn't pay attention it returned to my back with crippling pain? I.e., unknowingly I beat it in my arm and my mind switched strategies and went after my back? Is it productive to think of this as a battle against the unconscious by me, as I am doing now?
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| Dave |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 15:06:17
The fact that the pain got worse in the doctor's office should reinforce the belief that is TMS.
As to how to stop the conditioned response, there is no way to do that other than accepting it and recognizing it when it happens. It may take a long time for the conditioned responses to lessen or cease.
Don't worry about the MRI. It will rule out any serious problems and perhaps put your mind at ease. |
| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 11:01:07
Dave,
Thanks so much for your support.
I should tell you that I made an appointment with a TMS doctor here in PA. His nurse/phone person told me he wants a new MRI. I have to get a prescription from my primary along with a referral to this doctor. Well, while I was in the primary’s office waiting to be seen I experienced the worst pain to date- I could barley walk. If other days were a 5 or 6 this morning was a 9. The primary ordered the MRI and I am awaiting pre-authorization. Now, I would NEVER consider an MRI but for the TMS doctor wants to see it. However, is it a coincidence that while in the primary's office I am in excruciating pain? I do not think so.
I am planning on journaling/writing letters and not sending them. I will laugh the pain off and try my best to do what I normally would do. I am not even looking forward to the TMS doctor appointment- I would not be upset if I cannot get the MRI.
One last question: what is the best strategy to not experience the conditioning pain?
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| Dave |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 10:31:41
quote:
Originally posted by FSecondo
Dave, is your suggestion to move forward and do what I can with the pain? Sit at my desk normally? Do what I normally would do if I had no back pain?
Exactly. If you do those things and feel pain, just laugh it off. "Tell your brain" you refuse to fall for its tricks and you accept the pain is not due to the way you sit or the physical activity you undertake.
It is important to take a long-term view. The pain will vary from day to day. It is common for the pain to get worse before it gets better, as the unconscious mind is reluctant to give up its strategy. Don't let it win. Ignore the pain and get on with your life, and have faith that over time, the symptoms will fade. Whether it is days, weeks, or months doesn't matter. Just accept that it will come.
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| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 14:00:11
Thank you very much for your replies.
The confusing thing, and aggravating thing, is that I just really only told myself that I will not give into the pain and become depressed; that I would not accept a physical handicap. That is honestly what I did.
This time it does not seem to work. I am "all in" on TMS as a reason for the type of pain I am experiencing; however, I am lost as to what to do after that especially given that it seems that just accepting TMS was enough to stop the two prior episodes.
Dave, is your suggestion to move forward and do what I can with the pain? Sit at my desk normally? Do what I normally would do if I had no back pain?
I am dying to become phyically active again and I have zero fear of "reinjuring" my back.
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| catspine |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 13:01:35
Have you tried to go over your first success using the TMS theory to find out how and why it worked for you ? This may give you a better clue of what to use again that will make a difference. Of course you may have to read the book all over again while you're stuck. Often the body knows what your mind doesn't and it may do the job for you . |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 11:58:02
quote:
Originally posted by FSecondo
...although I am not sure if it is because of me stnading up after sitting, or me lying down after working all day...
You have to accept the importance of conditioning in TMS. If you believe that standing up or sitting affects your symptoms, then you are thinking physical and not accepting that the pain is simply a conditioned reponse.
quote:
I have a good grasp of the emotional issues I am facing right now.
Don't fool yourself into believing that. You have to accept that TMS is caused by unconscious emotions that you cannot feel. In fact, telling yourself that you have a "good grasp of the emotional issues" likely means the opposite. It is the things you are unaware that you are repressing that cause TMS symptoms. You have to dig deeper to try to find them.
quote:
Now, I am getting extremely frustrated and can only think how my back is stopping me from doing what I really want to do.
This is exactly what your unconscious mind is trying to do. If you let it succeed, the symptoms will continue.
The treatment is to ignore the symptoms and resume normal physical activity as soon as you feel up to it. If you focus on the symptoms, or believe they are exacerbated by sitting or standing or whatever, then you are going down a different path than TMS treatment.
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| FSecondo |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 07:53:13
Lack of responses is a little disheartening.
A friend suggested that I try his inversion table last night. I did and felt immediate relief. I was walking correctly, did not feel the acute pain in the bottom of my spine and was feeling good. After a few hours my back became tight again and the acute pain did return, but not as bad.
Any thoughts ?
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