| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 06:27:56
Well, thank you everyone. I am leaving the board for good and have made plans to have surgery. Unfortunately, there are not enough recovery stories for herniated disk sufferers here on this board. Everyone seems to have little aches and pains of arthritis. Not a real structural abnormality. I am not saying that there weren't those who helped me here and there, but after an honest year on this board, I have not gotten better even the slightest bit. My pain actually went away last summer for almost the whole summer without even truly believing in Sarno at all. I appreciate the concept of TMS, but feel that this board seems to take every physical symptom and blame it on conditioning. I feel bad for those who sit there and for 15 years just keep blame everything on conditioning and never get better. Some get better, but few are ever pain free. Sarno talks about being pain free. I was told that Sarno's ideas have totally made 90% pain free. All I hear on this board are that people can now deal a little bit better with their pain. I can't sit there and try to assume that after years and years of practicing Sarno's work, I may be able to do activity with a little less pain. I know many people who have had surgery and they are completely healed and it has been years. They go to the gym and lift heavy weights and no pain ever. You don't hear that on this board. Also, I need to clarify the comments about my inconsistencies. I have been reading Sarno and watching his tapes, videos, and cds since January 2003. So that is 2 years of Sarno for all those who doubted me. However, I have practiced him for months at a time and when no improvement happened, I stopped. That is why I said I have only consistently journaled for a month or two. You have to understand that I continue to trigger month long pain when I do something strenuous. This is even after my confidence was built up. Sarno has taught me to focus so much on the emotional, that I now have physical pain and I am depressed due to dwelling on things that really are not worth dwelling on. I still don't really know what the work really is. I thought in most cases just the acceptance that the pain is emotional was to rid us all of the pain. I am seeing a psychotherapist so TennisTom can shut his mouth. I have been seeing one for months now. I have had a lot of progress with life's stresses in the therapist's office. I have not seen any affect on my back pain due to this success. I can only repeat that I am a very happy person when my back pain goes away for some time. When it returns, I get depressed, negative, angry, and dwell on everything. The PAIN initiates the emotional anger. It does not hide it or distract it. I get angry from the pain, not the opposite. My life was great before my so called "trigger" of TMS" pain. I had some stresses like EVERYONE. Yet I am 26 with all of this pain. I know so many people who have had horrible trauma and deaths in their family and other stresses who don't have a TMS equivalent that is severe. My pain is consistent and annoying. Then I get horrible month long battles with excruciating pain the will not give up. I am someone who has been open minded enough to fully give TMS 2 years of my life. I know many who would never be open minded enough to do that. What have I gotten from this time wasted? Nothing more than the same pain I started with which comes and goes with my anxiety levels. I will always have anxiety and stress and the acceptance of Sarno's idea has not changed that. Yes I have accepted his ideas that TMS is a distraction so that we don't have to attend to emotional issues. I have accepted until now because after 2 years, I cannot waste time with this any more. Future readers of this board can add this message to their list of patients who did not get better from Sarno's work.
Thanks for the advice through this. My surgery is March 18.
This is my last message on this board.
TMSPain |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Laura |
Posted - 01/20/2005 : 12:56:51
2scoops,
Loved your post! You are right on!!! I went to several ENT's and two other M.D.'s when my dizziness started. I went on the website for Mal de Debarquement (a syndrome which means "failure to disembark" which occurs to some people, supposedly, after flying or being on a boat). The discussion forum and websites for that "rare disorder" with "no known cure" were frightening and I believe they exacerbated my symptoms. My husband kept telling me to stop reading about it (I hadn't even been given any diagnosis by my doctors - they just said they didn't know what was wrong or when it would go away, and to stay off of airplanes and boats!) because I was making myself sick inside each time I did.
This forum gave me new hope. I know I have TMS and I can make my dizziness better or worse by my very own thoughts. I hope that TMS pain can take some of the advice given here and save himself from surgery but it doesn't sound like it will happen.
I cannot believe a doctor told you that you had the back of a 50 year old man. According to Dr. Andrew Weil, in his book Spontaneous Healing, that's known as "medical hexing." The people who beat the odds that the doctors give them are the ones whose minds are strong enough to go out and prove otherwise. One has only to be reminded of Christopher Reeve. I enjoyed your post and I'm glad you were spared surgery.
Laura
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| 2scoops |
Posted - 01/20/2005 : 11:46:51
You are not going to get better with Sarno if you keep mentioning "herniated disc". You still believe that you are injured and that is what is causing your pain. I was 26 when my pain got worse. I had really bad burning in the low-back, both legs and down into the feet. My pain got worse when I sat. I also had considerable weakness in my left leg. My pain was constant and got worse when sitting. I am now 28. I feel so much better with Sarno than any other doctor made me feel. I have a lot more confidence with Sarno. The problem with these current diagnosis these doctors give us is that they always have existed, we just now have the tools to see them with.
America is so surgery crazy, pill crazy, etc. We want a quick fix and if you keep measuring the effectiveness of your TMS pain then it will hinder your progress. If your like me, and I believe that with the younger generation that we were raised on this internet with it's availability of information then we research just about anything. When I was given my diagnosis, I researched. I followed it's recommendations, it's theories on how to treat my back. It's nice to receive info, but we got to make sure that's it's correct info. So if you were like me you researched your "condition", you got on message boards board, you lived in fear, and got no relief. So if you are still doing searches on "herniated discs", exercises, alternative treatments, etc. then you are not going to get better and you will remain as conditioned as ever.
I'd hate to say it, but with today's media, they want us to live in fear. Marketers want us to feel inadequate. If were vulnerable, then were more likely to buy their product or follow their treatment, because hey, they have to make a living some how. This affects our self-esteem. More and more women are more conscious about their breast size and guys about their "manhood". We are being fed lies just to keep the cycle going. I strongly believe that self-esteem plays a big part in this TMS cycle.
Right now TMSPain, you have an opportunity to look inside yourself and evaluate your life, you get a chance to see what emotional pain is causing your physical pain. Most people have no idea that they could be close to pain-free, and that they have the power to combat pain attacks. You have been blessed, with this info. I say, if you are still researching your back, going to the doc for it, still think it's the cause of your pain, then I do not care how long you read Sarno's books, read them anoither 10 years, your still going to be in pain. If you think that becuase of your age that it can't be TMS then you are dead wrong. I had my first attack at 15. As long as we are able to generate tension, we are susecptible to TMS. To let you know, my diagnosis was three bulging discs, spondylolysis, and disc degeneration. I was told that I had the back of a 50 year old man. Talk about conditioning. My biggest regret was that I have seen too many docs. But I wish you the best. |
| diverlarry |
Posted - 01/20/2005 : 06:18:34
TMSPain
I had a friend who i use to weight lift with. He started to have back problems. He was having pain down his right leg. He had a operation. The pain went away immediately and he is back to hard weightlifting. This was 2-3 years ago.
This happened when i was going through a very bad time. If the doctor i seen had told me to get a operation, i would probably have done it. I thought since the operation worked for him, it should work for me to. I was very depressed when she told me there was nothing wrong.(there was a ruptured disk and a buldging disk). I had been suffering from back pain for 15 years off and on. I wanted a operation. I wanted to be fixed. I probably could have found a doctor that would have done it if i kept looking.
Thats when i started to read Dr Sarno. I had read the book before but it didn't work, becasue i didn't believe it. This time it worked .
Having a doctor tell me there was nothing wrong is very powerful. Im back to doing what i use to do. I get sore when i do some new things i have not done before . I still have programming fears now and then. But i don't have back problems like i use to. Pain free....being 50 and being very active i have aches and pains. Im sore now and then. I tend to push myself. Overall i feel great. I also stopped drinking when i read the book. This was a huge factor.
My mother had 2 back operations and still gets "flareups " and spasm. Now her knee hurts her so much she is thinking of getting a knee replacement.
You can always find information to support what you really believe.
Maybe the operation will work, maybe it won't. When you get the operation you will know. If it works it will support your belief that there was something physcially wrong. If it dosen't then maybe this is what you need to believe the TMS theory.
I was lucky not to get operated on. I was lucky enough to pick a good Doctor.
Its good to hear a different opinion now and then.
good luck.
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| Stryder |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 21:42:45
> What have I gotten from this time wasted?
> Nothing more than the same pain I started
> with which comes and goes with my anxiety levels.
Yes, that's it.
Less angst, more rescues.
Good luck, take care, -Stryder
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| Hocky |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 21:19:12
TMSPain,
I apologize. You are right about my post the other day. I had no right. Again, I am sorry; I should have respected your privacy. It was very thoughtless of me. I wish you best of luck with your surgery. I sincerely hope you fully recover, placebo or not, and get your life back. |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 12:10:32
Thanks Dave! It is just hard to believe that at 26, I am having back problems that started when I worked out at the gym. It makes it very difficult to get past completely. |
| polly |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 11:49:04
MRosenthal, Disk Pain, TMS Pain,
If you're seeing a therapist, you're seeing the wrong one. I know a lot of people who have gone to therapy and found someone that would just listen to them drone on without ever guiding them towards some help. That is certainly what you've done here and I'm guessing that's what you do in therapy.
I do hope you get better. Seeking attention is all you've done here. You might want to consider that you're holding on to your pain to define yourself. You've done nothing more than play games with people who were trying to help you.
You seem to have done a lot of things to keep yourself from getting better. Again, you've helped me a lot. If you don't have TMS, nobody does. The people here and the people that have healed had a different agenda than you. They wanted to get better. You just want everyone to know you're in pain and that it's worse than anybody elses.
btw, my MRI's show 3 herniated discs, spinal stenosis and severe osteo arthritis. "Doctors" look at my xrays and such and can't understand why I'm not in a wheelchair. The only real problem I have is from the surgery I had before I found Dr. Sarno.
Good luck,
Polly |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 11:25:50
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
When the therapist asks what are you upset about, I say my back.
You need to understand that this is circular reasoning. As long as you think this way you can't get better.
You say "how long does it take" but you haven't gotten to step 1. I know you have tried but you haven't made it. You still live in fear of the pain, you still believe that your structural problem may be the cause of the pain, and you believe the pain is the cause of your problems rather than the other way around.
I understand your frustration and even felt the same way at one time, when my symptoms did not improve despite what I thought was hard work. You're still caught in the cycle. The cycle must be broken for symptoms to improve. You believe you have done the work, but you really haven't.
This may sound harsh but it comes from experience. You have gone through the motions but you have not changed your mindset nor have you ever truly believed in the diagnosis. You have been unable to break the cycle and that is why your pain continues. It is not because the theory is wrong. The thousands of people that Sarno has helped would strongly disagree with you.
This forum is only a tiny subset of the TMS-afflicted population. Basing your conclusions on the posts in this forum is foolish and illogical. Many people who have recovered completely from TMS have far worse structural diagnoses than you. |
| Albert |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 11:14:54
I've recently felt enraged about my back pain too. But perhaps I have been putting the cart before the horse. Accusing my back pain instead of what causes it.
Right now I feel as if I need to find out where the rage comes from.
P.S. I do get enraged at times and talk sternly to the part of my mind that creates TMS symptons. "Sternly?" That reminds me of Howard Stern. How did he and other people get better if TMS theory isn't true?
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
No Dave, not true, I comprehend his book perfectly. I don't always write perfectly what I mean. I know that in many cases it takes more than just being aware, but I am in psychotherapy and have no idea what specifically to focus on. When the therapist asks what are you upset about, I say my back. I also give her a list of 50 to 60 other things that could be making me upset, but never as much as dealing with back pain and the fear of its return. I constantly go over what is going on in my life and what is bothering me. Never works! How long does it take for the unconscious mind to learn? I know I have low self esteem, I know all my stresses. I have dealt with most of them. I am just waiting for the only stress that I can't live with to go away. BACK PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 10:50:09
No Dave, not true, I comprehend his book perfectly. I don't always write perfectly what I mean. I know that in many cases it takes more than just being aware, but I am in psychotherapy and have no idea what specifically to focus on. When the therapist asks what are you upset about, I say my back. I also give her a list of 50 to 60 other things that could be making me upset, but never as much as dealing with back pain and the fear of its return. I constantly go over what is going on in my life and what is bothering me. Never works! How long does it take for the unconscious mind to learn? I know I have low self esteem, I know all my stresses. I have dealt with most of them. I am just waiting for the only stress that I can't live with to go away. BACK PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 10:08:54
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
I thought pain would go when you become aware of what is causing the pain.
This sentence alone proves that you did not comprehend Dr. Sarno's book. |
| Laura |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 09:51:22
I've got news for you. I have structural problems in my back also. I had a chiropractor take a whole slew of x-rays on me and showed me my problems. According to him, I should be walking hunched over with a cane by now! Thank God I got outta there. The difference is that in your case, your back is your center of focus 24/7 and that is where your symptoms lie. I agree with Tom. You can go have surgery and but once that placebo wears off, where will your problems take up residence next? I've been to orthopedic doctors, physical therapists, chiropractors, massage therapists. I know what back pain is. My back pain eventually went away when my dizziness began. I agree with you that the problem initiates the anxiety. It is a VICIOUS CIRCLE!!! It's like a dog chasing it's tale, around and around.
Feeling so dizzy that you feel like you are on the Titanic isn't much fun either. That's what I've been dealing with for nearly three years. If I read what it says on the dizziness website, I'd be setting myself up for "years and years" of misery with no end in sight. The condition I thought I had, Mal De Debarquement (failure to disembark, after traveling on a plane/boat), says there are people who suffer from this condition indefinitely and "there is no known cure." I had no choice but to explore other avenues. The doctors couldn't do a damn thing to help me. I was told "there's nothing we can do. It will eventually go away." Eventually? I'm not going to sit here and wait for eventually. I'd rather do the work and read the books, over and over and over again, and talk to other TMS patients who suffer the same symptoms as me. Through this website, I've found several other people who suffer with the same TMS problem, one of them cured when her back pain started.
It sounds like you have "checked out" and you are done with this forum. You need to do what you need to do and move on. Good luck with your surgery. I really do hope you get the long awaited results you are looking for. In the meantime, if you don't get into some therapy you are going to have far worse problems than just your back. You need to talk to someone and vent your emotions, of which there are many.
Peace!
Laura
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| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 09:30:51
I am SO aware of my issues and stresses. I have always been aware of my regrets in life and personality traits. That is why I doubt TMS. I doubt it because I have always been aware of my problems, and still no easing up of pain. I thought pain would go when you become aware of what is causing the pain. I have ALWAYS been aware of my problems and for 2 years now have been accepting of this new diagnosis. I just like to ask questions because I like to feel confident that others have been cured this way. I see a psychotherapist and feel that the only reason I am depressed is from the pain. The other things in my life bother me, but not like the pain. I know that my unconscious mind would rather deal with pain than emotional issues, but I know this and the pain still remains. I list my symptoms, stresses, good things in my life, bad thins, regrets, etc. I read the books, I watch the tapes, I write on the board. I do everything for this disorder. I just wish I really heard someone say, I have a herniated disk and I am completely pain free for years now. I can do anything for any amount of time without pain! When I hear that, I will be able to have a more consistent acceptance of the diagnosis of TMS. It just makes me feel crazy that a small bulletin board of a couple of people are telling me that the entire world and all doctors are wrong. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:54:29
dp, Sarno SAYS, surgery is the best placebo we have-it's good for two years. It works because the med/industrial comlpex of mumbo-jumbo surrounding it conditons you to believe it will work. You do pre-surgery PT, post-surgery PT, get cut, get morphine, get percodan. After all of that you get your confidence back - for a while. You may get two years of surgicaly induced placebo effect and then your TMS will pop up in new places, maybe just a vertebrae away. Statisticaly surgery doesn't work very well in fact I've heard most fail. I can't cite where I got that nugget of a fact, but you're the one 'gonna go under the knife so you do the research for me and find out the stats on UNSUCCESSFUL BACK SURGERY. If you want some stats on UNSUCCESFUL knee surgery, search Polly's posts.
Once again you get an F grade from TOM WHO WON'T SHUT UP, for reading comprehension. All this is basic Sarno 101. I think you were partying instead of doing your homework. You said you were leaving the board but you are back. I think you like the attention you are getting, what does your wife have to say about all this?
I do these posts for myself to help me remember the correct information versus the GROSS dis-information you are spreading about TMS. Were you ever a fact checker for Dan Rather at CBS news?
Your TMS pal,
t.w.w.s.u
TOM WHO WON'T SHUT UP
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| kenny V |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:31:47
quote:
Thanks for the advice through this. My surgery is March 18.
This is my last message on this board.
quote:
I will say this one more time "MY BACK PAIN WENT AWAY FOR MONTHS WITHOUT SARNO, AND NOW WITH ALL THE WORK IT IS STILL HERE".
. I have anxiety, but my anxiety and other problems WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF WORRYING ABOUT MY BACK PAIN
. I USED TO GET STRESSED OUT AND JUST MOVE ON. NOW I ONLY GET STRESSED WHEN MY BACK PAIN COMES.
Oh!! The viscous cycle of TMS
It seems you are saying as far as your condition that one thing is contingent upon another…. And the cycle continues.
Let is go brother,
As long as you continue to blame your conditions on all factors other than you are causing your condition to manifest itself, you will continue to chase your symptoms.
And this TMS cycle/ syndrome can morph, change its strategy in many forms and manifestations before you break it’s viscous cycle.
Remember you are dealing with an AUTO immune response, so don’t think you can change it’s outcome without disrupting the cycle and develop a new pattern of thinking.
TMS can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, so watch what you predict it just might come true.
Hope you find the “truth” to your condition
Always Hope For Recovery
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| Dave |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:19:38
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
Why would the surgery work if it really is TMS? Placebos don't last forever. Why does cortisone work for all? My mind has always been open, it has just been dominated by fear of returning spasms based on the fact the pain never lets up. Sorry, but when you have a full time job and family, you can't just keep living this way. You can't keep doing intense physical things when you lose so much time due to spasms. And I don't have 15-20 years of waiting for Sarno to work.
OK, this is MY last post on the subject.
Who says "cortisone works for all?" That is absolutlely untrue.
You say "your mind is open" but in the same sentence say "dominated by fear." Those two mindsets are incompatible.
You, like many others, feel that surgery is a viable option to TMS. This highlights your flawed thinking. You believed all along that surgery can fix the problem, which is why TMS didn't work for you. You read the book, you participated in this forum (though it was a one-sided participation) but it never sank in. Your mind did not let it happen. The "fear" as you put it is a defense by your mind. You were simply not permitted to accept the TMS diagnosis, because you have very deep-rooted problems. Your unconscious mind lives in fear as well: fear of allowing you to experience the blind rage that exists in your unconscious. So it never gave you a chance to accept TMS.
It is clear that you are one of those people who simply cannot accept the TMS diagnosis, so maybe surgery will be a successful placebo for you. Your psychological issues apparently run very deep and you have not even begun to accept them, or confront them.
I hope things work out for you. Please refrain from any more negative postings on this forum; my patience has run out. |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:07:47
Why would the surgery work if it really is TMS? Placebos don't last forever. Why does cortisone work for all? My mind has always been open, it has just been dominated by fear of returning spasms based on the fact the pain never lets up. Sorry, but when you have a full time job and family, you can't just keep living this way. You can't keep doing intense physical things when you lose so much time due to spasms. And I don't have 15-20 years of waiting for Sarno to work. |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 07:12:33
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
I will say this one more time "MY BACK PAIN WENT AWAY FOR MONTHS WITHOUT SARNO, AND NOW WITH ALL THE WORK IT IS STILL HERE".
Explain how, if the pain is due to a structural problem, the symptoms can disappear for months.
Or better yet, don't bother. It's clear that your mind is already made up; actually it was made up before you started visiting this forum. You were never able to repudiate the structural diagnosis. You say you "did the work" but you didn't even get past step 1. You are fooling yourself.
I hope that surgery works for you. |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 06:30:47
TMS Pain,
Where's my violin?
You really pissed off a lot of people here didn't you? You have no absolutely no clue what you are talking about, but I'm glad you were able to vent.
Little aches and pains, huh? Lemme see. I've got dizziness, which alternates but can sometimes overlap with back pain, headaches, eye problems, mouths sores, stomach problems all mixed in with loads of anxiety. Everyone elses pain may be "little" to you, but to us it's huge and at times debilitating. I wish you the best of luck with your surgery. With your attitude, you're going to need it.
Laura
It is simple Laura, you have symptoms of anxiety and one happens to be back discomfort. I have a structural problem. If I didn't, then I would not doubt TMS. I wish I had anxiety that slowly brought on some back pain. Mine was sharp intense, the muscles swelled up so I couldn't walk, and then I was stuck with sciatica and month long spasms. I could relax if I knew that 2 years of Sarno had helped a little. I will say this one more time "MY BACK PAIN WENT AWAY FOR MONTHS WITHOUT SARNO, AND NOW WITH ALL THE WORK IT IS STILL HERE". I believe that when people think Sarno is working, it is just a temporary let up in the symptoms. I have anxiety, but my anxiety and other problems WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF WORRYING ABOUT MY BACK PAIN. I NEVER HAD PROBLEMS LIKE THIS UNTIL I HURT MYSELF. NOW I FEEL LIKE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING. "NOW" IS THE KEY WORD. I USED TO GET STRESSED OUT AND JUST MOVE ON. NOW I ONLY GET STRESSED WHEN MY BACK PAIN COMES.
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| Laura |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 23:38:29
Holly,
Don't worry about the overlapping of symptoms as I'm finding this to be quite normal. There are days when my dizziness is worse and others when my headaches or back pain are worse. But sometimes, I've got three or four problems going on at once. Right now, I'm under probably the most tremendous amount of stress I've been under for some time. My back hurts, my head is spinning, and I'm popping Tylenol all day for my headaches. The dizziness is still the one that aggravates and distresses me the most and thus far, it is the one TMS equivalent that I suffer from the most. Today, when my husband was talking about the fact that it's been four weeks at his new job and no check has come in, the room started spinning. I KNOW it's TMS, and this last post by TMS pain made me believe it even more.
Anyway, don't feel like you're alone with the symptoms. I think it's the body's way of really confusing us. I mean, it's working right? Then it has served it's purpose. Just realize that the combo of symptoms is normal and is okay and that it happens to many of us.
Laura
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