| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 13:29:42
Here is the problem. We all know now from Dr. Sarno that exercise will not "hurt" you. We all know that there is nothing out there that you can lift or do that could hurt or further damage a back regardless or what Dr.'s say about little things like becoming paralyzed. We realize that one man out there is telling us that it is okay to bend and lift and run and climb when all other professional educated Dr.'s would say that was crazy. The big problme is that these things still cause days, weeks, months or pain. Horrible sleepless, torturous nights and days of constant spasm and irritation. Who the hell cares if you don't hurt yourself. What I care about is the fact that these activities bring on TMS that last a long time. A very long time. See, so even though we are all told to just do it, some of us can not give up a month of our lives recovering from the TMS caused by these activities. Now is the point of the letter where you begin to think that I have my facts wrong and that I keep saying that physical activity causes TMS pain. I know that emotional rage causes the pain, but physical activity brings it on as a trigger. If triggers are constantly ocurring each time we do something strenous, then we cannot escape this vicious cycle. It's the pain that is the problem, not the fear of injury. I would rather be injured and know I can get better, than have TMS which continues to trigger with strenous activity. |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| diverlarry |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 11:14:03
I also knew a weightlifter friend of mine who had surgery and is fine now. Maybe surgery will take away the pain. But the odds are against you.
No pain... who in life dosen't have some pain or discomfort.
Saturday i went sking for 5 hours. Sunday i went out for a run and a long walk. Monday i did some cardio and lifted weights. Tonight i will run/walk again. Am i sore...sure. But i feel great and im 50 years old. Im going to the DR next month again for some more body surfing. Im smiling, im happy,life is good. Does Sarno work ??? Dam right it does. Hell yea !!
YAHOOOOO !!! Look...im dancing !!
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| diverlarry |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 05:38:16
Maybe you have not hit bottom yet or are not desperate enough. For me i had to be so desperate i would try anything. I was at the point where life was not enjoyable anymore. I was so angry at everyone becasue they did not hurt like i did. I kept asking myself "Why me ". I have been exactly where you are and i know many other people have to. I was as angry as you and had the same questions. But i know these are just words and they probably don't mean jack to you. Something has to happen to make you believe. Until then your doomed to reapeat the viscious cycle your in. I know i was in it for 15 long years. You need to stop drinking. You need to take the great advice everyone has given you here. |
| mala |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 04:11:07
What are these activities that are causing so much anguish that you are talking about? Even though Sarno says that you can basically do anything he cautions against doing things too soon or too vigorously if you are not ready, ready psychologically that is. From your posts I know that you are not psychologically ready yet so, why don't you just lay off doing those things that aggravate your pain. If and when you are confident about the line you are taking with tms and start to believe in this diagnosis more, perhaps you could start those activities again without fear of hurting yourself.
Are you psychologically ready? Have you really accepted that your pain is emotional? What have you done about the emotional issues and how far have you progressed with understanding them and dealing with them? Can't you see that you have so many issues to deal with (re: your other post) that your brain thinks it is helping you out by giving you physical pain so that you don't dwell on the emotional? Can't you see that it is working?
Deal with the emotional first and then try those activities again that are causing you pain. Things will change.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 01:17:23
"Dear DiskPain,
I had decided to no longer reply to your posts because it was obvious that I was wasting my time and judging from your lack of response to my suggestions they were falling on deaf ears."
I have to say the same thing as TennisTom.
It is hard to have a dialogue when you do not respond to the advices you get.
Kajsa
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| FarmerEd |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 20:23:09
One thing I've noticed from all your posts is a long list of inconsistancies. You say you just started with Sarno then you claim you been doing the work for 2 years and so on. Are you sure you aren't just here to stir up trouble? Your post this time started a little sarcastic, you wrote, "regardless or what Dr.'s say about little things like becoming paralyzed. We realize that one man out there is telling us that it is okay to bend and lift and run and climb when all other professional educated Dr.'s would say that was crazy." Just which side of the fence are you truly on. No matter what is suggested you claim to have tried it. Dave suggests you might look into psychotherapy but you claim you've done that. It just looks to me like you might be looking to simply discredit Dr.Sarno and cast doubt on his program. Sure that's not the case? |
| Hocky |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 18:53:08
Look, I read your previous post. It looks like you have more than what can be just summed up as "everybody has problems". I have a long list, not very different from yours as well. And a multiplicity of mild to severe symptoms. I have been doing the work for the past 3 months now, most recently applying Dr. Selfridge's "freedom from fibromyalgia" program (based on Sarno theory). It's hard work. For the past 4-5 weeks, I have been spending more than 3 hours daily on journaling, reflection, meditation (which I am still terrible at), simplifying my life, reviewing my relationships and taking hard decisions. A month ago, I had doubts, but I had to keep at it. I had no choice, nothing had helped. 5 months ago, I had terrible debilitating neck pain, I could not work, sleep, read, ride in a car, cook. Today, I am working, socializing, have fewer symptoms, but I still have pain in different parts of my body. Although sometimes it is still somewhat severe, its quality is different: it frigthens me less and feels less "physical". I recently started swimming, 15 mins daily, resting between laps. Each time I go swimming, I get pain somewhere, but it tends to go away faster - when I don't, I still randomly get pain somewhere'so what the heck, I might as well swim, I say to myself. I did 10 partial squats the other day - it did not work - my knees did not like that. I said I am not ready so backed off. I will try it later. And I know I will succeed in the end.
7 years ago I had another episode like the current one. I didn't know about Sarno and TMS then, but I overcame it by persevering and shifting my attention gradually away from pain. Unfortunately, I didn't have the tools to prevent an recurrence, so I ended up in the bottom of the pit again a year and a half ago, in response to a chain reaction of minor physical triggers even though I was at the top of my physical shape. Two months later, I was worse than a 90-year old man and I thought the reason was the classical "I overdid it again". Now I know better, but I still have a long road ahead. I am afraid you do too.
BTW, I read Fred Amir's book among others, and adopted some ideas from it. But I decided not to apply his program because it was too aggressive on physical activity for my personality. Not because I am not athletic or don't enjoy exercise (I used to teach fitness classes and be a personal trainer, although now of course I am badly out of shape). To the contrary, I knew that if I did too much too soon, I would get extremely frustrated and end up feeding the conditioning. So I decided to go with Dr. Selfridge's gentler, more touchy-feely but structured approach. One strategy I am using to get over fear of exercise is to wear my running attire at home. Ordinarily, I get pain when I wear my running shoes even if I am just sitting with them. I got the inspiration for the idea from Amir's desensitization principle. My point is: you have to find what works for you rather than focusing on the mechanics of this or that programor taking what Sarno says about listing your sources of anger only literally. Regardless, it will take time I guarantee. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 16:15:03
Dear DiskPain,
I had decided to no longer reply to your posts because it was obvious that I was wasting my time and judging from your lack of response to my suggestions they were falling on deaf ears. But what the heck, here goes another try at it.
You seem like an OK guy with the burdons of the world on your shoulders. You seem to be doing some TMS work, just the wrong work.
I second Dave's reply and I've said it to you before - it's time to see a TMS doctor or psychotherapist. The Good Doctor does not claim that he can cure everyone with TMS. In fact, he goes to great lengths to separate those he thinks he can help, from those he is fairly certain he can't. He's an honest doc and doesn't want to waste anyone's time or money. In fact, I don't think Sarno claims to "cure" anyone. He just gives them the knowledge "penicilin" that guides them down a path to life long health. Hopefully, Dr. Sarno, will get the recognition he deserves someday and receive a Noble Prize for MindBody Medicine.
So I'm not quite sure why you're hanging around here for so long. A lot of people have spent a lot of time and heartfelt thought to try to help you.
__________________________________________________________
"We realize that one man out there is telling us that it is okay to bend and lift and run and climb when all other professional educated Dr.'s would say that was crazy."
_______________________________________________________________
The above quote of yours is way off the mark. That is what motivated me to reply actually. This is simply untrue. As the "professional" dox found that all the things they were recommending were NOT alleviating backpain they have started to reccommend doing things that they never would have a decade or two ago such as supplements, chiro, and accupuncture. It was't that long ago that "traction" and bedrest were the primary recommendations. I should know, I did neck traction once. The last time I went to a "professionaly educated" surgeon he said the best thing I could do was to keep exercising (and then see him for a new hip when I couldn't stand the pain}. But I've posted all this stuff before and I assume, in your pain you missed it. Dr. Sarno, is a "professional" doctor. He was trained and practiced in rehabilitation medicines. He is the head of the Rusk Rehabilitaion Institute of NYU Hospital. He has been dealing with and writing books on these issues for 25 years. On rare occasions someone like him comes along who has the courage to question when others do not.
Something else you have wrong is that the Good Doctor does not recommend resuming strenuous exercise while in the accute phase. He recommends learning TMS theory and then easing back into exercise. If strenuous exercise is causing you pain why don't you do something LESS strenuous like walking. I found walking to be the best exercise I did to ease back into vigorous exercise, and regain my confidence proveing that my hip "arthritis" was TMS. I am a senior tournament tennis player.
I just re-read your post and about 50% of your assertions are fundamentally incorect and are not to be found in any TMS literature I have ever read. If you were taking a test in school, and missed half the answers, what kind of a grade would you get? Good luck, hopes this helps. |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 15:59:22
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
I am attending psychotherapy, but you know what, when my back pain goes away for a couple of hours, I am so happy and feel invincible. Everyone has problems, but not everyone has back pain. Sorry but there are other TMS equivalents but back pain is worse than acne. I feel great when I don't have pain. My pain is what makes me depressed and worried about other things and then it is the domino effect. Thing is that the back pain starts the process of anger.
Circular reasoning will get you nowhere. Until you realize that the pain is the result and not the cause you will not get better.
Psychotherapy in and of itself is only half the battle. Until you truly connect your back pain to your repressed rage, and stop giving the pain a life of its own, you cannot get better. |
| Hilary |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 15:47:26
This is the last time I will post back to you as your posts make me very frustrated. What you've said here sums up everything you've ever posted. You clearly don't want to accept TMS as a diagnosis and you've never really bought into the TMS theory.
I agree that your rage is very apparent in your posts.
Good luck with finding relief from your pain.
Hilary
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
I would rather be injured and know I can get better, than have TMS which continues to trigger with strenous activity.
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| Sara |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 15:42:58
TMS Pain,
I can understand some of your skepticism. I too have had some of my own doubts. I think that is only natural when first accepting this diagnosis. However, no offense but, you need to s---t or get off the pot. If you are so skeptical of TMS then you either need to abandon it or find yourself a TMS doctor. I think you are torturing yourself by waffling back and forth. It is great to raise questions. Many people are here to help, but you also need to be proactive in your own recovery. And, why not question the conventional doctors? At one point, Sarno was a conventional doctor too. But he discovered there to be no ryhme or reason to back pain and its treatment.
Personally, I have realized that I cannot accept TMS fully even though I really want to. So, this moring I called Dr. Schecter's office to make an appointment with him. In the next month my husband, two kids and I are going to travel from Colorado to LA just to see him. This will be my vacation for the year and although it is not necessarily my first choice in vacation destinations, I feel I need to see a doctor who will give me a definitive answer. And although this board has been great, I need an actual doctor. I have realized I cannot do it on my own and it seems as you may not be able to either.
I wish you the best and hope you make a decision soon. I can really hear your negativity in your posts.
Sara |
| Susie |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 15:32:49
You have so much rage that I can feel it in your post. One thing I know for sure is that we don't have a choice on where our pain comes from. The fact is that we are not physically injured and wishing you were instead of having tms is just not going to do you any good but cause more frustration that will make your symptoms worse. You actually seem to be angry with Sarno. He has not caused your problem, just diagnosed it. You are not happy with the diagnosis so you continue to plead for another cause. Exercise is not causing your pain but the fear of exercise might indeed be a trigger for you. I read your previous post about journaling and all of the things you see wrong in your life. Just listing them will not effect a cure. This is not about magic. There is alot of hard work involved but your impatience is a quality I also have and I think is very common in tms sufferers. Once you realize what is not working in your life, try to fix it. Close up the loose ends. Address the problems head on, one by one. Your rage is overflowing and you really need to deal with it. I have never been in therapy but I think ,after reading many peoples posts, that we would probably all benefit from a little more insight. Put some of your energy into finding some help for yourself. I'm not trying to be unkind, but whining about it will get you nowhere. |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 15:27:41
I am attending psychotherapy, but you know what, when my back pain goes away for a couple of hours, I am so happy and feel invincible. Everyone has problems, but not everyone has back pain. Sorry but there are other TMS equivalents but back pain is worse than acne. I feel great when I don't have pain. My pain is what makes me depressed and worried about other things and then it is the domino effect. Thing is that the back pain starts the process of anger. |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 14:19:24
The "big problem" is that you don't believe in the diagnosis, and you never have. You are unable to achieve the mindset necessary for recovery. You are unable to see the pain episodes for what they are: a conditioned response. You are sure that TMS pain will last "days, weeks, or months." You are consumed with the physical.
I'm afraid you simply will not be able to achieve the proper mindset on your own, without seeing a TMS doctor. I also think that your problems run far deeper than you realize and that you most likely require psychotherapy to make a dent in your TMS pain. |
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