| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 06:59:44
I emailed Dr Schubiner yesterday and he was very nice and got back to me saying he could not diagnose over the internet but it sounded like I had the classic symptoms, personality and childhood for TMS. He referred me to 2 doctors in TX who are doing TMS work (though they're about 5 hours away from me  ) He recommended I get his new book which is coming out in 3 weeks since it has all of the online course in it. I'll pre order it and hopefully maybe I can get to see one of the doctors in TX because I don't know what else to do:(
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ennio |
Posted - 10/13/2011 : 22:55:45
FYI, Dr. Schubiner is going to be at the Kripalu Center in western Mass. at the end of this month:
http://www.kripalu.org/program/view/UYP-111/unlearn_your_pain_a_mind_body_approach_to_chronic |
| art |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 10:51:28
While I understand how it would be helpful to get an "official" TMS diagnosis from an MD, for most this is not needed. If you've seen a regular physician and he can't find anything, or if what he finds is something that you know from reading Sarno's books is usually benign, (which is to say something that many people have without symptoms), and your personality fits the profile, that's really all the evidence you need in practical sense...
I would not drive 5 hours unless I absolutely felt I had to..
Or perhaps you can find a TMS doc willing to give phone consults...
Also, bear in mind there are never any guarantees anyway. TMS docs are as fallible as any other doctor. Ultimately, this is a leap of faith that gets easier with time and experience. |
| head2toe |
Posted - 10/09/2011 : 12:17:51
I also found Dr Schubiner to be an extremely generous and compassionate man. At a time when I was at an extremely low ebb, he gave me access to the online course at no cost for a limited period so that I could see if I thought it would suit me. He also gave me encouragement and hope which is something I will never forget. The way I see it, he is totally dedicated to helping people heal their pain. |
| balto |
Posted - 10/08/2011 : 08:50:14
quote:
Originally posted by seven
quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
seven,
Mindfulness meditation doesn't teach you about nirvana, or about 8 paths, 7 aspects, 3 french hens, 2 turtle doves or anything else. It ONLY teaches you to be present and to start paying attention to what's going on - right here, right now.
"The relevance (of mindfulness) has nothing to do with Buddhism...but has everything to do with waking up and living in harmony with oneself and with the world."
I don't mean to appear pugnacious here Hilary, but I don't believe your statements are completely accurate in regards to Mindfulness Meditation. You posted "The relevance of mindfulness meditation has nothing to do with Buddhism...," for one.
According to the Encyclopedia Wikipedian, Mindfullness Meditation was developed by "The Buddha" (Siddhartha Gautama) and implemented as the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism with the GOAL of bringing the practitioner to the highest state of Nirvana (one with god or god-realization)
Mindfulness Meditation was taught by Buddha, and Buddhists today, as a practical technique to ethical and mental development with the goal of freeing the individual from attachments and delusions; and it is taught that it finally leads to understanding the truth about all things. Together with the "Four Noble Truths" it is what constitute the gist of Buddhism.
* I will gladly post a review of Dr Schubiner new book and instructional Mindfulness Meditation CD
Mindfulness meditation was not developed by the Buddha. Mindfulness was practice by followers of Hinduism and Jainism hundred if not thousand years before Buddha. The first 6 years in his quest to find the way to enlightening he wandered around the country studied under many teachers and learned and practiced mindfulness meditation with them.
Also, to a true buddhist, Buddhism is not a religion. Buddhist don't believe there exist an almighty god or a creator of the universe. They don't care about who or what created this world, this universe. They believe there are many planes of existence and Nirvana is the plane that they all want to be at and following the teaching of the Buddha will lead them there. Religious are man made. Institutionalize buddhism as most people know today is man made. The Buddha don't tell people to worship anyone, including himself. He didn't want people to build million dollars temples, he didn't want people to worship his statue,... (I think Jesus didn't neither)
To a true buddhist, Buddha is just a great teacher who shown us the way to free ourselves from pain, sorrow, suffering... forever. We respect him but we don't worship him or any God. |
| LuvtoSew |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 19:47:44
Dr. Schubiner , so impressed you posted. I live near you and have been thinking of taking your course. I am going to order your book first. Anyway just inpressed with your response. |
| hschubiner |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 06:10:06
Hello out there, this is Dr. Schubiner and a friend of mine told me there was a thread about me and either answering or not answering emails. I always answer my emails, but there was a problem with a link on my web site so that certain emails never reached me. We have changed that link so now emails go directly to my hschubiner@gmail.com address. I apologize to the person who felt slighted by me. It was entirely unintentional as I never saw those emails. I don't read the TMS Help Forum on a regular basis.
So, please email me again. I think the question had something to do with the relationship between Christianity and mindfulness, which is seen as coming from the Buddhist tradition. That is a great question and one that has been posed several times over the 16 years that I have taught mindfulness. In brief, my answer is that mindfulness practice is clearly a part of all religious traditions because at its core, it means to wake up and pay attention to what is happening right now in the present moment. I think about Christian rituals that ask people to pay attention to the blood and body of Jesus; powerful mindfulness practice from my point of view. I learned mindfulness and teach it from a secular point of view (my original teachers were Jon Kabat-Zinn and Saki Santorelli). I see absolutely no conflict between mindfulness practice and Christianity or any other religion. But I'm happy to answer any more specific questions!
Best, Howard. |
| hschubiner |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 06:00:24
quote:
Originally posted by seven
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
that's odd seven. He sent me an email the same day, and I honestly wasn't even expecting one.
Hi jerica,
To be honest, I do not believe Dr. Schubiner wants to answer my question and therefore he just didn't reply. I believe he is skirting the question I posed.
I read on Dr. Schubiner's site he had a new book coming out with a instructional Mindfulness Meditation CD included. I email Dr. Schubiner and ask him about any possible conflict between Mindfulness Meditation and Christianity.
I ask Dr. Schubiner if he would write a few lines in an email sharing his few of a possible conflict. He did not reply. I waited and wrote again. No reply.
I wrote a total of 5 short emails asking to briefly share his view of the potential conflict. He absolutely refused to give me the courtesy of a response on the subject but I know from all the TMS message boards he usually does reply to emails. As a matter of fact I read sevral replied to email from Dr. Schubiner just last week to individual on the TMS Wiki site.
Of course if one is not a Christian there definitely is no conflict and this post would be completely irrelevant.
"Meditation" is a component of many religions, and has been practiced since antiquity but it is also practiced "outside" of religious traditions. There are secular methods of meditation.
Different meditative disciplines encompass a wide range of spiritual or psychophysical practices that may emphasize different goals—from achievement of a higher state of consciousness, 'enlightenment' that some Eastern gurus teach one can obtain liberation from life and death by meditation, a state where man is freed from the endless cycle of personal reincarnations, to greater focus, creativity or self-awareness, or simply a more relaxed and peaceful frame of mind while in activity.
Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautama(Buddha). According to the encyclopedia Wikipedian, the origin of *Mindfulness Meditation* is from Buddha's philosophy and practice. Mindfulness Mindfulness is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism.
"The Noble Eightfold Path," Buddhist describes the way to the end of suffering, as it was laid out by Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha). It is a taught as a practical guideline to ethical and mental development with the goal of freeing the individual from attachments and delusions; and it is taught that it finally leads to understanding the truth about all things. Together with the "Four Noble Truths" it is said to constitute the gist of Buddhism. Great emphasis is put on the practical aspect, because they teach it is only through practice that one can attain a higher level of existence and finally reach "Nirvana."
Definition: Buddhist Nirvana: Nirvana is believed the supreme state free from suffering and individual existence. It is a state Buddhists refer to as "Enlightenment". It is the ultimate goal of all Buddhists. The attainment of nirvana *breaks the otherwise endless rebirth cycle of reincarnation.* Buddhists also consider nirvana as freedom from all worldly concerns such as greed, hate, and ignorance, etc.
So basically my question to Dr. Schubiner is, can Mindfulness Meditation be separated from the Buddhist religion, philosophy and doctrine and practiced in a secular context.
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| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 10:49:10
What Jon Kabat-Zinn teaches and calls "mindfulness meditation" may not be the same thing that a Buddhist might be referring to. While there may be an "official" encylopedia definition, how a word is used and understood in the real world is not always the same. Not sure what Dr Schubiner means or teaches when he uses that word, but it is possible he knows a lot about what HE calls "mindfulness meditation" but very possible he knows little about Christianity (another word which means many different things to many different people!) and so didn't feel qualified to answer the question. While he COULD have said "thanks for your email but I don't feel qualified to answer that question, but invite you to listen /read the materials and see for yourself" he chose not to reply at all, which is not so surprising, but was understandably disappointing to seven.
Mindfulness meditation may come from a particular historical past, but by the time it has "evolved" through different western practitioners, each with their own "agenda" it could well be called something else, and original practitioners of mindfulness meditation might well be offended by this new thing! However, it is probably not a "trademarkable" phrase, by this time; therefore anyone can call anything "mindfulness meditation". |
| Hilary |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 06:12:37
Hi seven,
It's John Kabat-Zinn you'll want to discuss that with - not me!
Hilary |
| seven |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 05:22:20
quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
seven,
Mindfulness meditation doesn't teach you about nirvana, or about 8 paths, 7 aspects, 3 french hens, 2 turtle doves or anything else. It ONLY teaches you to be present and to start paying attention to what's going on - right here, right now.
"The relevance (of mindfulness) has nothing to do with Buddhism...but has everything to do with waking up and living in harmony with oneself and with the world."
I don't mean to appear pugnacious here Hilary, but I don't believe your statements are completely accurate in regards to Mindfulness Meditation. You posted "The relevance of mindfulness meditation has nothing to do with Buddhism...," for one.
According to the Encyclopedia Wikipedian, Mindfullness Meditation was developed by "The Buddha" (Siddhartha Gautama) and implemented as the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism with the GOAL of bringing the practitioner to the highest state of Nirvana (one with god or god-realization)
Mindfulness Meditation was taught by Buddha, and Buddhists today, as a practical technique to ethical and mental development with the goal of freeing the individual from attachments and delusions; and it is taught that it finally leads to understanding the truth about all things. Together with the "Four Noble Truths" it is what constitute the gist of Buddhism.
* I will gladly post a review of Dr Schubiner new book and instructional Mindfulness Meditation CD
|
| jerica |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 22:46:06
quote:
Originally posted by seven
Being Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautam (Buddha) and is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism, there could be potential conflict in teachings.
I am eager to know what you think of the CD and if you do find anything conflicting in it. I hope you will post a review of the book and the CD when you've had a chance to read/listen to them. |
| Hilary |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 14:08:06
seven,
Mindfulness meditation doesn't teach you about nirvana, or about 8 paths, 7 aspects, 3 french hens, 2 turtle doves or anything else. It ONLY teaches you to be present and to start paying attention to what's going on - right here, right now.
You don't have to embark on an in-depth study of Buddhism to find out about mindfulness meditation. Kabat-Zinn answers this question in the first chapter of Wherever You ARe, There You Go:
"The relevance (of mindfulness) has nothing to do with Buddhism...but has everything to do with waking up and living in harmony with oneself and with the world."
It's one of those things that was designed to be simple, and shouldn't be overcomplicated!
|
| catspine |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 12:10:06
By Jericaquote:
Why are there only 2 freaking doctors for this in all of TEXAS?
Hey , because Texans are tough they don't need no doctors... |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 06:23:08
Seven,
Perhaps checking out Kim Boykin's book, Zen for Christians, would be worthwhile for you.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| seven |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 21:33:33
The reason I wrote and asked Dr. Howard Schubiner, besides being the teacher on the instructional CD that comes with his new book, he has practiced mindfulness meditation for more than 25 years and has been teaching mindfulness for the past 5 years. He has studied at the Center for Mindfulness at the University of Massachusetts Medical Center under Jon Kabat-Zinn, Saki Santorelli, and Ferris Urbanowski. So he is much more of an ''expert'' on the subject than I am.
On the other hand I have a degree in Bible studies and probably more versed on the Bible than he is.
Being Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautam (Buddha) and is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism, there could be potential conflict in teachings. Instead of embarking on an in-depth study of Buddhism and its meditation, I felt the quickest was to find out is ask an expert on the subject. I hope that satisfies your curiosity on why I inquired to Dr. Howard Schubiner, jerica.
From the beginning of human history Satan has been deceiving humanity. In the garden he convinced Eve that "ye shall be as gods". Don't you find it interesting that to be divine "as God" is a common thread among many religions, including Buddhism?
I ordered the book and CD too so I will post my review after reading also. Thanks for the comments. |
| jerica |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 17:45:08
Seven I'm not sure why you need Dr Schubiner to answer that question. We can think on our own without it belonging to a religion, so why can't we meditate without it being part of a religious belief system? I am not sure what you are trying to find out about the CD. If the CD were to mention nirvana or Buddha then it would be kinda Buddhist and if it mentioned Jesus it would be more Christian but I think they're not going for any religious view at all with general meditation.
I also find personally that some Christian sects seem to find offense and danger in oodles of things (massage, hypnosis, meditation, reiki, acupuncture etc.). One is basically told to "have faith" and you'll be healed. But I think that God gave us medicines and methods to use for our betterment and sometimes Christians think that using those tools somehow negates God or takes the focus off God. Why can't we meditate on God? And why can't we meditate on simply being good people to ourselves and others? We can meditate on psalms and the messages of the Bible. I don't understand why you need Dr Schubiner to say specifically that the mindfulness CD is not against Christianity or poses a conflict. Some Christians will always see a conflict and some will not. There are many types of Christian denominations. I think Dr Schubiner may simply just be avoiding having to address the religious issue because his book/CD isn't meant to take a religious standpoint.
I'll be getting the book and CD so I can tell you about it if you want. But then you're kind of at the mercy of my own personal perception of the stuff! |
| Hilary |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 15:20:09
I can understand Schubiner not answering that question. Once in a blue moon I get professional emails that I just can't seem to rustle up the energy to answer. I kind of know I should, but I just can't figure out the right response. These emails sit in my inbox staring at me and making me feel guilty until I decide to kick some TMS ass and just delete them. It's partly that I want the other person to figure out the answer and partly that I seem to have 8 million other things to do but mainly it's that the question isn't within my arena of knowledge and I can't actually get myself together enough to say that in any way that makes sense to the other person.
Maybe Dr Schubiner doesn't know the answer to your question. Or maybe he thinks it's a personal issue that you'll have to decide for yourself. For what it's worth, I've done a few mindfulness meditation classes, and they seem to be attended by every religion under the sun and then some. Mindfulness is just about paying attention to what's happening in the here and now rather than what's happened in the past or will happen in the future. I wouldn't worry about it.
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| seven |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 09:17:56
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
that's odd seven. He sent me an email the same day, and I honestly wasn't even expecting one.
Hi jerica,
To be honest, I do not believe Dr. Schubiner wants to answer my question and therefore he just didn't reply. I believe he is skirting the question I posed.
I read on Dr. Schubiner's site he had a new book coming out with a instructional Mindfulness Meditation CD included. I email Dr. Schubiner and ask him about any possible conflict between Mindfulness Meditation and Christianity.
I ask Dr. Schubiner if he would write a few lines in an email sharing his few of a possible conflict. He did not reply. I waited and wrote again. No reply.
I wrote a total of 5 short emails asking to briefly share his view of the potential conflict. He absolutely refused to give me the courtesy of a response on the subject but I know from all the TMS message boards he usually does reply to emails. As a matter of fact I read sevral replied to email from Dr. Schubiner just last week to individual on the TMS Wiki site.
Of course if one is not a Christian there definitely is no conflict and this post would be completely irrelevant.
"Meditation" is a component of many religions, and has been practiced since antiquity but it is also practiced "outside" of religious traditions. There are secular methods of meditation.
Different meditative disciplines encompass a wide range of spiritual or psychophysical practices that may emphasize different goals—from achievement of a higher state of consciousness, 'enlightenment' that some Eastern gurus teach one can obtain liberation from life and death by meditation, a state where man is freed from the endless cycle of personal reincarnations, to greater focus, creativity or self-awareness, or simply a more relaxed and peaceful frame of mind while in activity.
Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautama(Buddha). According to the encyclopedia Wikipedian, the origin of *Mindfulness Meditation* is from Buddha's philosophy and practice. Mindfulness Mindfulness is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism.
"The Noble Eightfold Path," Buddhist describes the way to the end of suffering, as it was laid out by Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha). It is a taught as a practical guideline to ethical and mental development with the goal of freeing the individual from attachments and delusions; and it is taught that it finally leads to understanding the truth about all things. Together with the "Four Noble Truths" it is said to constitute the gist of Buddhism. Great emphasis is put on the practical aspect, because they teach it is only through practice that one can attain a higher level of existence and finally reach "Nirvana."
Definition: Buddhist Nirvana: Nirvana is believed the supreme state free from suffering and individual existence. It is a state Buddhists refer to as "Enlightenment". It is the ultimate goal of all Buddhists. The attainment of nirvana *breaks the otherwise endless rebirth cycle of reincarnation.* Buddhists also consider nirvana as freedom from all worldly concerns such as greed, hate, and ignorance, etc.
So basically my question to Dr. Schubiner is, can Mindfulness Meditation be separated from the Buddhist religion, philosophy and doctrine and practiced in a secular context. |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 19:11:38
that's odd seven. He sent me an email the same day, and I honestly wasn't even expecting one. |
| seven |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 14:34:54
Don't want to rain on Dr. Schubiner's parade here, but I did NOT find Dr. Schubiner a very compassionate person at all. I wrote to him briefly 5 times via email requesting a short response in regards to his new book and he absolutely refused me the courtesy of a short reply. No money in responding to emails I guess. |
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