| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 14:57:00
I was looking on his site and saw that his course is $250. That's quite a bit of money for some reading. Has anyone done the course and what exactly IS it? Is it just reading books? Journaling? Anything that I can't get from reading Sarno's books? Is there any one on one support or help in diagnosis or anything in the course? Is it a lot more helpful than just reading and journaling or seeing a therapist on your own? |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 09:45:06
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
It isn't wrong to have that angry child inside who doesn't want to grow up, right?
Of course not. It's part of being human. There is a "child" in all of us that resents growing up.
Drawing examples from books and music is a good exercise. For me, music touches 'nerves' inside me that I might not otherwise reach. Some songs trigger emotional responses that I do not understand -- probably they are touching memories that I don't realize. I try when I get into these emotional states to stay with it and follow it down as far as I can. Like you, I have trouble feeling (I grew up in a family that was not comfortable expressing emotion). So the rare time when I am able to cry, or get really angry, I try to stay in that moment and really feel the deeper stuff that is triggering these emotional reactions. |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:55:59
Thank you, Dave. I'm going to read your posts a few times over til they sink in enough. I do wish I had a therapist would would go down that road with me as you have, as I know it takes a long time and I just need an ally. I have a new therapist so we're going to start on some work focusing on building up my resources and then dealing with the child inside.
It isn't wrong to have that angry child inside who doesn't want to grow up, right? (It's like Peter Pan! If you have read that novel -- it's great -- it isn't a children's story as much as an adult's story and Peter himself isn't pleasant at all! He's a very unlikable character, really. But I think JM Barry really hit on that angry child inside the adult who wanted to "never grow up" and who hates having been forced to. That book speaks volumes about childhood and aging but it's wasted on kids because they haven't yet experienced the pains of growing up.
I was thinking of something else today, listening to the musical Tommy by The Who and remembering how I identified so much with it when it was out on Broadway back in I think 1994 or so. I saw it 3 times and was very taken with the story (Tommy had stress illness for sure!:) and how he became "free." The whole thing with Tommy and his 4 yr old self, 10 yr old self and adult self trying to all come to terms with things that happened to him is compelling. The image is of the adult looking in the mirror and seeing the child self in it, trapped. (In the show/opera the mirror is broken which symbolizes his integration and healing and he is then able to see and speak and hear again.) He sings to his child self, "See me, feel me, touch me, heal me." Doesn't that just speak volumes when it comes to what we've been talking about? |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:05:00
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
I'm grasping at straws to come up with something.
That's OK. It is trying that is most important.
It seems you are on the right track. However, you need to dig deeper.
Think of it as a child inside you who does not want to grow up. The child is in a blind rage over the pressures you put on yourself to live your life a certain way. The child resents the responsibilites of adulthood. The child just wants to be left alone and taken care of. We cannot feel exactly what the child feels, but we can think about all the aspects of our life that might feed the rage that the child feels.
The feelings you describe such as being "cursed" or to "deserve punishment" are really symptoms, as is the outward anger you express towards others. Think of these thoughs/feelings as a smokescreen or defense mechanism. They are hiding deeper feelings that your unconscious mind is trying to protect you from.
quote:
I'm just plain afraid of living in the world with all the scary people who judge me and I feel I'm not good enough or always lacking somehow or unworthy.
This deserves some more thought. I am sure you believe that there are people judging you and who feel this way about you, but really, you feel this way about yourself. Low self-esteem comes from many places within us, especially our upbringing and unfulfilled needs. You need to try to explore the reasons you might have developed these traits. Try your best to "follow these thoughts down" and uncover deeper, more specific feelings. You may need to see a therapist to help with this step.
It's important to realize that you cannot be successful at finding which "ones" are causing your TMS. By definition the rage is unconscious and we cannot feel it, so we cannot know for sure which thoughts/emotions may cause TMS. The important thing is that we try to find them. It is the act of trying that sends a signal to your unconscious that despite its efforts, you are still going to focus on those ugly feelings that it is trying to protect you from. Do this again and again, every time you are aware of the pain. Over time you recondition yourself and the pain will fade. You will also learn more about yourself and why you developed the personality traits that you have, and be able to modify your behavior based on what you have learned.
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| jerica |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 18:40:53
I'm grasping at straws to come up with something. I have wondered many things like:
- I want to stay sick for sympathy (though I really don't get any because people are tired of me)
- I feel empty and without an identity of my own
- I feel "cursed"
- I feel I deserve punishment
- I'm terrified that I'll go to hell and the only way to "save" myself is through punishment on earth
- I'm afraid to face my life, accept that I have made mistakes and not blame other people but take responsibility for myself. But then when I do that, I get really NASTY to others, and get demanding that if I am responsible then they can/must be, too.
- I feel I am treated unfairly and want someone to take this crud off my shoulders and tell me that my feelings are VALID and not told not to be angry, not to be sad, etc. I get the whole "why are you always so angry" stuff and it just sets me back thinking it's not valid to be angry or sad etc.
- I don't want to forgive people who hurt me. I'm still angry with them.
- I love and hate people and can't figure my feelings out. I get hurt and disappointed by people and get suspicious and then lonely because I am afraid of being hurt again.
- I'm just plain afraid of living in the world with all the scary people who judge me and I feel I'm not good enough or always lacking somehow or unworthy.
That's for a start, and I don't know which ones are the ONES causing my stuff. I just think of something it could be and I'm not sure what I really feel at all. Sometimes when I have a symptom I can't even tell if I'm really feeling it or imagining it and I have trouble describing it properly. I don't think I know WHAT i think and anything I do think, I deem wrong somehow. SOmeone else's thoughts are ALWAYS more valid than mine. |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 16:12:46
You seem to be very insightful, and accept certain thoughts that others may deem "inappropriate."
It is these inappropriate, forbidden, embarassing, dangerous emotions that our mind doesn't want us to feel, so it keeps us focused on symptoms, or on fear of the symptoms, or on analyzing the symptoms. Anything we focus on related to the pain means the mind is winning the battle. It is keeping us from focusing on the forbidden feelings.
"Welcoming" the pain is not a bad thing -- if you can accept that it is benign. The pain is nothing to fear, it is just a reminder that there are things going on in your life that might be affecting you on levels that you do not realize. Welcome the pain as a signal to explore those forbidden feelings. What is your mind so desperate to keep you from feeling, or accepting? |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 15:10:04
My mind knows this Dave, but the rest of me, my will maybe is held back somehow. I even ask myself if I WANT to be sick just because I've lived with it for so long I feel I might be "empty" without it to fall back on or to blame. And there is the problem -- the pain and symptoms keep me from facing life and actually living. It's a way to hide and sometimes even though it is terrifying and painful it is a comfort to nestle in it and feel that IT at least is mine and it "cares" about me. Strange thinking, isn't it? I don't want to think that way. I don't want to be welcoming and nurturing to the stuff that's holding me back. Until I feel worthy and capable of being without it though, I don't know what to do. So I'm trying to figure out how to convince myself that I'm not "cursed" (my sister has said we are all cursed on numerous occasions and my mom sometimes says stuff like that so I've come to live like it) and that I am NOT my family and don't have to follow their thinking and doing. Right now I feel connected too much to the bad stuff. I want to cut the ties, but how exactly? |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 10:23:29
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
I noticed Hillbilly and am doing a search on his posts. He sounds like he's really found something that works and it may be along the lines of what I need. From what I can tell, he read the books but it took more than that for healing and that's where I'm "at" right now. I have read the books, understanding the thinking but can't find my breakthrough where it works for me.
Many people get discouraged when relief does not come fast enough, and continually search alternatives. The search becomes a distraction in and of itself -- serving the same purpose as the symptoms. They over-analyze, over-intellectualize, and read everything they can find about mindbody disorders.
Recovery from TMS takes time, focus, belief, dedication, and a long-term view. One criticism I have of Dr. Sarno's books is that he makes it sound too simple, and sets unrealistic expectations for recovery. Typically, you will not be pain-free in weeks. It could take months or even years to get to a point where the symptoms no longer control you.
If you are unable/unwilling to put in the effort and time, I'm afraid no books are going to help. No matter what path you take, there is no magic bullet. You have to do the work.
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| catspine |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 03:34:52
Jerika's
quote:
I have spent thousands getting my heart checked and I'm getting desperate because I still have chest pain and shortness of breath and random pain etc. It's so random, it comes and goes. I can have a few days or weeks where I feel pretty ok and then blam, something is triggering it. Docs keep saying it's anxiety and to take xanax and zoloft.
Yes Jerika TMS can do all that to you I can confirm that because I went through exactly this. the only difference is that I never took any meds for it . I couldn't afford it anyways. In my experience the way it works is that TMS targets the vascular system through the autonomic brain which I read and was told and experienced at my own expenses just in case I didn't believe it maybe. The nerves involved create a constriction of the blood vessels your brain targets and the effect is hard to control unless your mind is well trained to eliminate the fear that adds up to the negative effects but it is possible to do it .
An other way it affects the body this way is by contracting the muscles close to the arteries and veins many of which run alongside your spine too. (The arteries are for delivery to the organs and the veins for the return of the blood to the heart). When the signal is sent by the brain the muscles in your thoracic cage may go into a spasm just as they do in other places in the body and compress the blood vessels increasing or decreasing blood pressure momentarily. In these cases it is important to release the tension as fast as possible both mentally and physically, laying down helps quickly just like it does when you suffer from hypertension or high blood pressure. after a few minutes you start to feel better. Having a "procedure to relax " ready to use is a great asset every time it happens.
There are known techniques to kill the fear and panic attacks before it tries to invade you and even after it already did and it's nice to have at least one method that works for you in your emergency procedures "psychological tool kit".
Once you acquire this simple skills a lot of the symptoms loose their effect quickly and eventually disappear because they don't work anymore. then you 'll have more time available and less pain to be able to process the rest. |
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 19:37:02
Hiya, jerica,
You might find the following helpful:
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/Dr.+Schubiner%27s+online+Mind+Body+Program
Forest
My story at tmswiki.org |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 17:53:45
I noticed Hillbilly and am doing a search on his posts. He sounds like he's really found something that works and it may be along the lines of what I need. From what I can tell, he read the books but it took more than that for healing and that's where I'm "at" right now. I have read the books, understanding the thinking but can't find my breakthrough where it works for me. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 16:04:49
ya know, I had a conversation with him on the phone before I met him. His number is easy to find. Perhaps give him a shout out.
At the same time, if your'e all checked out by MD's, and are convinced it's all psychological anxiety, then reading Hillbilly's posts may be very valuble to you. |
| jerica |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 15:21:02
I can spend $250 in one visit to get an EKG due to my chest pain since I don't have insurance. I have spent thousands getting my heart checked and I'm getting desperate because I still have chest pain and shortness of breath and random pain etc. It's so random, it comes and goes. I can have a few days or weeks where I feel pretty ok and then blam, something is triggering it. Docs keep saying it's anxiety and to take xanax and zoloft.
I am getting so desperate it wouldn't be a bad investment if it worked but I feel like I don't want to pay $250 to read what I can get from the library or watch videos I can see on You Tube. If there is a one on one component where the doc talks to you that would be worth the price because that's the most valuable thing. I will have to research it some more and just email and ask him about it.
thank you for your swift and thorough response! |
| skizzik |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 15:15:08
If your'e new to tms, and the psychological world then it will be an eye-opener for newbies that never realized their pain could be caused by a psychological component.
It is more writing excercises, that end up with a positive twist. Lots of forgiveness, anger exploration, and letting go. As well as reading Sarno lit.
I felt as if I had done it all before, but I've been part of this forum for a long time, and read almost everything reccomended here by that time, and felt "this is what I've already been doing".
On the other hand, you get access to his online forum where him a real MD responds to every post and thread, and I think phone calls too. I was a patient, so I get to call him, not sure if you do if you just do the course. Also you get the film of his treatment lecture, well, it's more like several short videos.
I've spoken to people who were in incredible pain, who were cured after taking the course. The woman in particular was on morphine, and crawled into Schuby's office, and I think within a couple weeks was pain free after the course. She had a tragedy in her family, which I think the course helped her with.
It's intensive, and I told him, hey, If I did this, it's like 90 min a day, I got a job, wife and kids. He was like "I know, I know, I'm cutting back some of the reading". I think you can do 20-30 min a day until you feel better. Just take longer to do the course.
I personally love the guy, and feel contact with him was vital to my recovery. Maybe your'e one of the lucky ones who will benifit from it. Lots of unsent letters, brainstorming excercises about people in your life, and it is significant how you see the tension that others give you that you wer'nt aware of. There were times of relief during some writing excercises. I may have blown it being desperate to get better quick. I think someone more patient than I will do very well on it. What is $250 these days anyways? At one point It took that much to fill my old minivan 2.5 times. |
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