| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| susan828 |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 16:52:04
I really think I am losing my mind. I had a dream last nignt that I took a friend to the dentist and afterwards, asked the dentist to see me. I woke up at 5 a.m. and 3 of my upper right back teeth hurt when I touched them. This could have been from clenching due to the anxiety dream about the teeth (although dreams are supposd to be seconds long so I don't know if seconds would cause this). Or...the pain was there from clenching, leading to the dream.
However, here is a better example. I had a kidney stone once. I fear another. I was in the market today and was looking at a food that I am not supposed to have when you have had a certain type of stone that I had...and within seconds felt pain on my side for a moment. This happens a lot. I would like to know if it happens with others. Can the mind be that quick to produce pain in a part of us that we're merely thinking about? This sounds like more than coincidence. Or am I going nuts? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BecB |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 19:41:01
Hello,
Yes, the whole body and mind are connected. Sometimes if I think to myself that I have had a couple days without much pain then BAM, the pain will come back. If I immediately think about what is possibly bothering me psychologically right when the pain comes, then after a couple days it seems to get better. Just keep looking for patterns or triggers. My pain is in my mouth too so I can understand how hard it is.
Becca |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 16:21:33
Holy #### holy #### holy ####!!!!!
HellNY,
I'm recovering from a host of TMS symptoms and some medical mistreatment.
I do some light to moderate lifting and used to lift heavy almost daily before my breakdown 2 years ago.
Today, I've had burning on the inside of my elbow just below my bicep on both arms. I did curls yesterday! I swear to god, I don't ever remember feeling this before. Just so happens, I read your post before going to bed last night. Slowly today, this burning skin sensation has come on. I can't even believe this. It's almost laughable. I mean, I guess I could have held my arms in a bit and rubbed them there against my body, but I swear I've never felt this.
Our minds are freaky, amazing apparatuses.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 12:11:29
If anything this should be confirmation of the power of the mind to bring on physical symptoms.
Last week I read an article about how long-term use of proton pump inhibitors such as Prilosec could cause some kind of bacteria-induced chronic diarrhea. I used Prilosec for many years. Wouldn't you know it, I developed diarrhea that day.
One of my TMS symptoms is heart arrhythmia (PVC). On several occasions I remember thinking to myself how I have not had them in awhile. Within minutes, they arrived.
When these things happen I just laugh and reaffirm my belief in TMS. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 02:54:58
I am dealing with exactly what you are talking about in your original post..Thinking about something and then it happens..After I bite down on a small bone fragment now my tooth is hurting..it is not cracked but could be bruised..I don't have a dentist because i am living in a new city..and moving again this Friday!! Major stress..I do not want to bring this on via the TMS process..The mind is very powerful and I believe the more I think about it, the worse it gets! |
| catspine |
Posted - 02/06/2010 : 04:17:32
Susan ,
With due respect for the time and effort and money invested in their studies which are probably very difficult I still think that some psychiatrists could do much more for their patient than they actually do. Some are devoted to the well being of the patient and really interested in the science and how the brain works but they blend in a system made to operate in a different costly way. Choosing a good one is like choosing a lawyer you must wait for the result to see how good they really are. I read in Dr Sarno's HBP that he can refer you to a specially trained therapist in order to identify repressed emotions and make you aware of how you repress them. I believe this is possible and probably very expensive and time consuming but it offers a solution and the adventure must be great . I think these specialized doctors must be analytical rather than behavioral therapists. The idea is to try to release the deeply buried emotions that cause the problem. No guaranty there but i assume they do their best.
As for the healers I have no patience for the ones you mention and I think it would be an insult to your intelligence to mention someone like that.
A healer or Kahuna in Hawaiian is a very knowledgeable man with tons of experience in different fields: human nature ,religions, herbal medicine, social behaviors, physical and mental healing therapy, massages and plants. Their empirical knowledge is impressive and the title must be deserved. Often the skills are learned and passed on from one generation to the next. They are highly respected by the natives even nowadays. Of course their methods and specialties vary from one another but there are not so many of them anyway. The cultural barrier doesn't seem to be an obstacle in most cases. Some of them give workshops and talks on the mainland as well.
As of your concern a technique called Lomi Ha base on a breathing technique assisted by the healer is specifically designed to release unconscious emotional issues which I tried successfully. Skeptical at first but open minded and having nothing to loose I accepted to do it on my wife's insistence. It is an experience I will never forget and will use it again without hesitation if needed. It was very draining but I do not have any doubt about the efficiency of this method anymore. you must be prepared for something different though.
I wonder why the medical profession never thought of hiring the service of such people to solve the problem of repressed emotions. Frankly you can accomplish in couple of hours what could takes months in psychotherapy the only difference being that you may not know the nature of the emotion released with Lomi Ha obviously and in my experience it is the most powerful that wants to come out first.
The release is not pleasant but well worth it in terms of benefits.
As with any such work in Hawaii the spiritual aspect of it can not be avoided as it is part of the art and the way of healing the person.
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| susan828 |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 19:32:03
Thank you catspine for the nice words about winnie and me. I do believe at this point in my life that I have read all there is to read about (in my case) health anxiety and will most likely never see a shrink again who has no knowledge of that subject. I have the best books written by the pioneers in the field. All cognitive based.
I have a lot to learn and practice regarding Sarno's theories. I've read the books but haven't implemented it yet, it hasn't sunk in yet. I sent away for the book coming out in February by the doctor in Michigan, forgot his name. I have to agree that we know enough by now...I don't see how a therapist can help except maybe give support. Maybe if it were a therapist who specializes in TMS but I just don't have the money right now.
Ss far as your mention of healers, what kind of healer? I will be honest, I don't believe in people who lay hands on you, psychic kind of alternative stuff. However, I am open to listening to what you say (original skeptic here but ya never know..). |
| catspine |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 15:55:37
Hi Winneboo and Susan
You're both smart and well spoken, educated and articulate, successful I suppose too so why is it you need the expertise of someone who's knowledge comes mostly from books and school in a system based on profit to give you approval for what you do or what you think or what is or is not?
When you have such abilities and sensitivity as yours it just gets more lonely up there just as if you were the best in your category. How could it be otherwise?you suffered enough to acquire what you know. So what happens is that you're looking up for more answers to fill the void you're digging more for more meaning and it gets harder and harder to satisfy the need. The body can take a lot but it can only take so much. The fact is that the brain wants to grow more and the body wants to do less and goes the opposite direction over the years. These concepts oppose one another: it is the hardest thing for the brain to accept or for the body to comply with. It may work with some luck or if we believe in the illusion of what we are but it is more likely to create health problems because we are only human beings.
You say that the therapists are expensive don't you think those guys know that they have what you want? They know it! and that's why they make it so expensive. But even so maybe one visit with a very good will yield more than 10 visits elsewhere... Do you know that some good psychiatrists sometimes seek the help from a better one than themselves? why do you think that is?
There are two theories that rule the Universe that as human beings we know of: there is the theory of balance and the theory of chaos and everything in between, that's not much different than what happens inside all of us.
All this is probably very interesting and exiting but it seems to me that at some point one has to decide: I am enough! and seek mind/body harmony to heal.
I hear you say you're tired of the practitioners that get you nowhere. Have any of you ever tried to seek help from a healer? I mean a real one. Somebody who knows and can explain what he is doing. There are still few of them over here and I wish I had gone to them if I knew better then for what I saw when I went was the wisdom we lack in our world the kind we need so badly to re-council the mind and the body. No magic or witch craft there just faith and pure ancestral wisdom and knowledge of what we are made of and the experience to convey it for our well being.
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| winnieboo |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 11:08:55
Hi Susan,
I agree on your views regarding therapists. Thoroughly depressing, actually, and my experience (once again) has been much like yours. If I could find a practitioner who was super intelligent and not completely screwed up themselves, I would have gone back already. I'm in a giant metropolitan area, too, and can't believe how many shrinks there are to sort through, and of course no one takes insurance.
One of the things I've been thinking about lately is that the psychodynamic theory of therapy that Sarno advocates, and that I just left, just promotes another form of avoidance in a way. In my case, "thinking psychological" perhaps led to digging deeper into old dirt and on some level it was horrifying and counter-productive. Regretfully for me, it didn't cause my physical pain to cease. I merely got caught up in symptom imperatives, all the while feeling so depressed about my wretched past. I've found that therapists bring stuff up and tell you to go home and "greive, or get angry" and it's so hollow you know? You drive to the grocery store on the way home and when you walk through your door your family's there and later you say, "Oh yeah, I was supposed to grieve tonight!" (Or punch pillows, which felt phony to me, plus my neck would always hurt more). Additionally, I've never been with one who promotes forgiveness. They have always told me "you don't have to forgive, it's your right..." Anyway, here I go again, off on a ramble.... You know, did the sins of my parents create my problems or do I just have something biological to deal with or both? In the end, I think the way out has to be to focus on changing the behavior--somehow...and the route to that is certainly different for everyone. |
| susan828 |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 08:27:22
Hi Winnie, I definitely have hypochondria, always have. I kept a diary as a child and it's all in there. I agree that many of us have that as well. Now it's politically correct to call it "health anxiety", all the same, LOL.
I have also heard that it's a form of OCD. I hate labels though...I wouldn't say I have OCD as far as obsessing but have shown some signs of it, things to keep order, strange stuff which I think many people do. I have been through cognitive therapy and even in this big city, have never found anyone good. There are a few centers with the experts but I could never afford them and they do not take insurance. The truth is, I have been to therapists that knew less than i do. I know this sounds unbelievable but I have been to therapists who never heard of Beck. Half of them are so messed up themselves...I know so many personally and all I can think is "They're treating people??"
So, if you can find a really good one, that would be great. From all of your posts, I can see that you are remarkably sharp and will be able to spot someone who is not qualified.
Thank you so much (and everyone else who replied). I know what you mean...it is exhausting, making excuses to people for not wanting to do things when we are feeling low or not well. Even family does not understand unless they've been there. I have so much of what other folks on here seem to have, IBS, anxiety disorder, panic attacks (which have abated over the years), but just what is probably generalized anxiety disorder, hard to fully relax..fibromyalgia as a result, which has also diminished. I studied fibromyalgia, read every book I could, was in chat rooms, did research for my rheumatologist and could fill a library with books on that and anxiety. There is definitely a personality that most of us on here have. And it's all good...we are truly sensitive people. I think I even heard that on one of the TMS drs. lectures. Unfortunately, it manifested itself this way. Sometimes I wish I were more of a rotten person with no pain :-)) |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 07:08:56
Hi Susan,
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Fifteen years is a long time, but as you say, if something truly were physcially wrong, you would have had serious problems years ago (i.e. tooth absess, etc.).
It struck me this morning to mention, and perhaps it really warrants it's own thread, but most of us are suffering from hypochondriasis. Hypochodriasis is an OCD spectrum disorder and research is rapidly showing that cognitive behavior therapy works best to manage and cure.
Perhaps this is why some Sarno people (who don't have true hypochodriasis) read the book and get well immediately, while others (like me!) get the idea but can't make it work to relieve the symptoms. I have OCD, have had it all my life. Like you, as a child I was always sick (so was and is my Mom, but that's another story). As a young Mom, I was obsessed with germs and cleaned incessantly and later the OCD blossomed into Body Dismorphic Disorder, in which I was convinced I never looked good enough. I became obsessed with the gym and then hyperfocused on my hair and skin. The skin obsession had me going to the dermotologist and worrying about every spot and wrinkle on my face. When I was in therapy for the BDD and I almost couldn't stand it myself anymore, my neck injury sent me into the latest hypochondriasis phase. A funny symptom imperative.
Would just like to add that I keep all of this OCD/illness stuff secret from the outside world in which I seem to function quite well. But hiding it is exhausting! On many occasions I have shared with good friends that I have OCD (severe probably) and they laugh: "WB, you are so normal and so nice!" (Yeah, well, glad you don't have to live inside my head, LOL).
So, all I can say is, it's an exhausting treadmill. We know what's going on physically (nothing) but can't control it. We constantly seek reassurance from doctors, tests, loved ones and people on this Forum. The reassurance seeking is a classic behavior under the OCD and hypochondriasis banners.
I am lately convinced that CBT is probably my last hope. I'm just psyching up to find someone and start another therapeutic relationship, as the last one was sadly lacking and didn't really work.
In any case, we are all with you Susan. Hope you are feeling better soon. |
| catspine |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 22:38:13
Hi Susan
quote:
I cried my eyes out last night because the tooth pain came back. The same pain I have had for 15 years on and off. I didn't know if it's my sinuses, teeth, temple radiating. The teth are crowned and they can't se underneath and I keep thinking something under there is not good. But it doesn't seem like a tooth because by now, it would have abscessed, something would show up on a periapical x-ray (where they see the root).
I have no man in my life and all I think is who would want to be around me. And when I get into moods over the pain, I truly could not be around a man. I get too panicky and just want to be alone. I envy those here who have a spouse. You are so lucky to have someone who knows you and is understanding. I am so sick of this. I have read and reread Sarno and the others and I recognize that I have rage for good reasons, things in my past. I just don't see how recognizing it is helping me. How attributing the pain to the suppressed rage makes it go away. I want this to work for me.
About the teeth that are crowned there doesn't have to be something underneath to hurt but there has to be a nerve. I suppose the teeth that are crowned all had root canal done as is customary which would eliminates these particular teeth as the direct source of the pain except for what is left of the nerve in the bone.
So logically these cculd only cause a problem indirectly let say by pushing on an other tooth with nerves left in it or on the nerve under the root of the crowned tooth which is often where root canal problems are located. I presume you're familiar with the anatomy on the subject.
Now let say you're on the edge nervously or emotionally, Although the pain may not be strong enough to notice when you feel okay the rest of the whole area may be ready to go off anytime at the first signal of overload from the brain which is one thing tms does very well because of the way it works.
Maybe the TMS approach will work for you but you must understand that it is not a question of how intelligent or articulate you are or you'd be pain free already. Once the principle is understood accepting it is what makes it work if you have a doubt about it it will not work .You say it yourself : I just don't see how...(Skepticism)
It is not the same as if you'd read and conclude : of course ! that's why!
(totally convinced)
You can not force yourself to believe and you can not believe it because it hasn't been explained to you in a rational way that would make you accept it yet which you may come across in one of these posts some day so don't get discourage. the theory works it just has to reach its destination.
I'm sorry to hear that you feel so bad not having a partner. Often the reason we feel alone is because suffering reveals to the ones who endure it that will always remain a mystery to others . Remember you might be better off alone than badly matched but if it's meant to be you'll find the right person. If this situation changes however you could simply tell the candidate ahead of time that you're rather be left alone when you're not well this is totally acceptable by someone how loves you just the way you are . Maybe by then the pain will be gone .
You know here is a crazy idea: would your dentist accept to numb the specific area where the tooth hurts when it does as a way to identify where the potential problem comes from or at least see what he has to say about that ...
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| susan828 |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 20:01:24
Catspine, I don't know what it tells me. I feel so abnormal with all of this. I have been this way since childhood with some years of remission when I just lived normally without thinking about my health at all.
What does it tell me? I have read every book by now, all of Sarnos and the others I sent away for and I don't see how I can get all of this into my subconscious. I even question if there is such a thing.
I cried my eyes out last night because the tooth pain came back. The same pain I have had for 15 years on and off. I didn't know if it's my sinuses, teeth, temple radiating. The teth are crowned and they can't se underneath and I keep thinking something under there is not good. But it doesn't seem like a tooth because by now, it would have abscessed, something would show up on a periapical x-ray (where they see the root).
I have no man in my life and all I think is who would want to be around me. And when I get into moods over the pain, I truly could not be around a man. I get too panicky and just want to be alone. I envy those here who have a spouse. You are so lucky to have someone who knows you and is understanding. I am so sick of this. I have read and reread Sarno and the others and I recognize that I have rage for good reasons, things in my past. I just don't see how recognizing it is helping me. How attributing the pain to the suppressed rage makes it go away. I want this to work for me. |
| catspine |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 16:54:10
quote:
Originally posted by susan828
I really think I am losing my mind. I had a dream last nignt that I took a friend to the dentist and afterwards, asked the dentist to see me. I woke up at 5 a.m. and 3 of my upper right back teeth hurt when I touched them. This could have been from clenching due to the anxiety dream about the teeth (although dreams are supposd to be seconds long so I don't know if seconds would cause this). Or...the pain was there from clenching, leading to the dream.
However, here is a better example. I had a kidney stone once. I fear another. I was in the market today and was looking at a food that I am not supposed to have when you have had a certain type of stone that I had...and within seconds felt pain on my side for a moment. This happens a lot. I would like to know if it happens with others. Can the mind be that quick to produce pain in a part of us that we're merely thinking about? This sounds like more than coincidence. Or am I going nuts?
Susan you're not going nuts : With TMS "loosing your mind" is not necessarily a bad thing it could indicate that you're making good progress in a different direction. Welcome it because many people do not have this ability which you can always combine with the present powerful mind you got. TMS is an "interactive" condition, that in itself limits the possibilities for coincidences to almost nothing.
And YES this does happen all the time it is just another form of mind/body connection, to offset the possibility of pain transfer here's a very simple trick : transfer the subject of your thoughts onto someone else s body. as rationally the pain can not jump from your brain to their body without at least verbal communication the thought will escape your from your brain without the negative side effect. Also don't forget that it is not what we know that allows this process to take place : it's what we don't know. Fear is mostly irrational. But if you think of it it definitely can be used to your advantage instead:
Consider someone you know and trust having symptoms exactly similar to yours and telling you something like: " Oh yes I had that pain in my mouth for a long time and I was really worried about it until I found that my crown was the culprit and it went away..."
Would that affect you? how and to what degree?
Now just replace the word crown by the word emotions and ask that same person to repeat it. Would that affect you? how and to what degree?
One thing is for certain: you have physical symptoms, the pool of your emotions is getting full and there is a cause to that. What does that tell you ?
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| whitehead |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 15:13:26
I once ran into a stranger at a coffee shop, we got to talking and found outthat we were both had read and benefitted from Sarno's books. Both of us had gotten past a lot of our various symptoms. But as we talked "shop" about these old symptoms, they began to comeback! Symptoms that had dissapered years ago came back just with mention of them. We laughed about this and, of course, the symptoms went away. |
| guej |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 14:25:12
Thanks. Great response. I'm a big fan of Fred Amir's book. It was one of the tools I used over the summer after first finding Dr. Sarno, and I achieved about 50% reduction in pain over a few months, but more importantly, I was about 75% back to doing all activities. I started very slowly (walking a few minutes) and worked my way up (running for 30 minutes). Unfortunately, I jumped back too fast into another activity and did hurt myself. Completely unrelated to the original pain, but it set off an awful chain reaction that is still snowballing downhill. Bottom line....I undid all the de-conditioning. My fear of being "disabled" kicked right back in and my body responded with teh same pains and symptoms I had diminished. I feel so stuck again, and pretty down that I lost all the ground I had gained.
I'm with you in that I think sometimes we have to accomodate the pain. It's one of the reasons I still take pain meds. When this pain is out of control, it is VERY hard to not react emotionally to it or to think about it all the time. When things have calmed down physically, it's amazing to notice how much calmer my mind is and how much more rationale and optimistic my thoughts are. Thanks for the advice. I know we got a little off topic from the original post, but I think the advice can be helpful for many. |
| HellNY |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 13:47:01
quote:
Originally posted by guej
HellNY: Hi! It's me again. As always, I think you are right on the money with your response. And I couldn't have described it better than you did - the attention to the symptoms becomes an "obsession". So here is my follow up question, and one that I struggle with:
Let's say we accept the TMS explanation that nothing is seriously physically wrong with us, however the pain still presents itself with a vengeance for now. Here's the problem I know I run into in trying not to give the pain any signficance. When the pain escalates, even if I recognize that nothing is seriously wrong with me physically, it is still debilitating in that I can't walk for very long or be on my feet once it kicks into high gear. Unfortunately, efforts to keep ignoring it and to move through it tend to make it worse. So while I try not to attach an emotional reaction to it, it still affects what I can or can't do on a daily basis. That's just the reality of constant pain. Do you push through it? That feels just like the defiance you recommend against in your post. Or do you "give in" to it at that time without getting too upset and just believe that over time it will become background noise. By sitting down when I'm in pain, I feel in a way that I'm giving credence to it. I am tired of "fighting" it, so your approach is one that resonates with me on an intellectual level and it makes sense based on my experience so far, but on a day-to-day basis I still have to find a way to live with the pain while it's still here. Thanks.
I can only tell you how I have dealt with this and what has worked. Understand that there will be some diasgreement from others about my strategy, but here its what I did: Because I believe that the pain is intensified because of attention and emotional response, I also suspected that if the pain got too bad, it might be impossible to not get emotionally upset or "ignore" it simply because it was such a nasty bombardment. So what I did was say "ok, I am going to lie down for a little while," or "Ok so I am going to stop sitting in this chair for now because it hurts beyond what is acceptable." Or "I will take some pain meds because I need some help here."
However, every time I did this I also knew that the pain was just part of my psyche, and that it would diminish over time, but that any attempt to "push" the process would tend to backfire. So I basically allowed myself to accomodate it when I needed to. I didnt try to fight thr whole thing at once nor did I start "measuring my sitting tolerance day by day to see if I improved."
SO in my view, it was my new cognitive perspective on thepain that started to result in its unraveling, and the fact that I tended to yield a bit when the pain got really nasty also allowed me to maintain the mental composure to keep my emotions where they needed to be. You see: it was changing my emotions and cognitions, less so the specific activities I did.
Now I know this is controversial because many have said "ignore the pain and resume all physical activity etc etc." I think you have to take this on a case by case basis and guage your own reaction. And to illustrate this point strongly, consider Fred Amir, one of Sarno's disciples who wrote the book "Rapid recovery from neck and back pain." He was 100% believing in Sarno and recovered. But if you really read what he did, and I mean read carefully, you will see he did exactly what I did. He didnt "do it all at once." He starte dout trying small things and as his confidence built, he then gradually began doing more physical things that used to hurt. One time his daughter asked him to pick her up and swing her around he would say "not yet, but we will eventually." He did eventually but only when he was ready.
See? He instrinsically knew that there owuld be some things that push him past his limits, so he still "allowed" himself to avoid certain things that would cause pain, but over time did them in smaller amounts. Over time, he could do a little more and a little more till eventually everything returned.
When I read this I knew it for what it was; Systematic Desensitization. The psychological/behaviorist term for a technique that behaviorists use to treat phobias and irrational conditioned fears/problems. If a child has a conditioned and irrational fear of a snake, you dont "cure him" by forcing the snake on him. Instead, you first put the snake in the same room with him but perhaps 15 feet away. He might get mildly nervous but doesnt panic. After he no longer seems to even care about teh snake, say a week later during treatment,m you move teh snake about 5 feet closer. He may get nervous again at first but even that will dininish and dissappear. Eventually the child will be able to handle and even pet the snake without fera because you have gradually reintroduced the feared object at the pace that the child can handle. Now, if you try to shortcut this and get the snake too close to early, it will backfire and send teh kid screaming and you will lose ground because now you have re-ignited teh conditioned fear.
My way of treating painful activities is the same. No Freud required.
As a final example, I did this wit myself in 2003 when I had burning pain all over my skin whenever I did anything physical. I used to be a weight lifter. But when I had this problem, whenever I tried going back to tehgym I got horrible burning pains in my limbs and couldnt do it any longer. This got so bad at one point my arms burned just by holding the phone.
So what I did was one day I decided that I would do 1 push up. Just one. I did that and no burning. The next day I did 2 push ups. I had a littyle burning after so teh next day I just did 2 again (I didnt increase them). No burning the next time. So the Fourth day I did 4 push ups. Nothing. Day 5 I did 5 push ups! Only a tiny burning and by 10 I could do 10 with NO PAIN AT ALL.
Within 1 month I was back to lifting weights with no pain or burning.
This was systematic desensitization. As straightforward as it was I was amazed.
So thats my view. I believe the way I have approached pain is consistent with Sarbo even though I do not believe in Freud, etc. This is because I think Sarno works not because of the repressed emotion/Fruedian hypothesis. But rather, it works because people stop fearing tehir pain and then the pain startes to reduce. But for sonme folks, a little bit of "stepping down" gradually is required, such a the basics of systematic desensitization, to overcome teh conditioned fear and dare I say it -- conditioned pain.
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| guej |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 13:06:03
HellNY: Hi! It's me again. As always, I think you are right on the money with your response. And I couldn't have described it better than you did - the attention to the symptoms becomes an "obsession". So here is my follow up question, and one that I struggle with:
Let's say we accept the TMS explanation that nothing is seriously physically wrong with us, however the pain still presents itself with a vengeance for now. Here's the problem I know I run into in trying not to give the pain any signficance. When the pain escalates, even if I recognize that nothing is seriously wrong with me physically, it is still debilitating in that I can't walk for very long or be on my feet once it kicks into high gear. Unfortunately, efforts to keep ignoring it and to move through it tend to make it worse. So while I try not to attach an emotional reaction to it, it still affects what I can or can't do on a daily basis. That's just the reality of constant pain. Do you push through it? That feels just like the defiance you recommend against in your post. Or do you "give in" to it at that time without getting too upset and just believe that over time it will become background noise. By sitting down when I'm in pain, I feel in a way that I'm giving credence to it. I am tired of "fighting" it, so your approach is one that resonates with me on an intellectual level and it makes sense based on my experience so far, but on a day-to-day basis I still have to find a way to live with the pain while it's still here. Thanks. |
| HellNY |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 11:22:40
This also is consistent with the theory that fear and preoccupation with the pain actually ends up maintaining the pain state. When you fear something, by defnition you are attending to it - in fact devoting considerable attention to it. This magnifies its representation in your conciousness, which intensifies the pain signal.
The intensifies pain signal then leads to greater fear and attention --practically an obsession, causing the pain to escalate even further.
Its a vicious cycle.
In my view one of the main reasons teh Sarno approach works is because you fear the pain less because you dont see it as real any longer, this reduces the attention you pay to it because you dont ocnsider it a threat. This in turn reduces the pain signal, which in turn reduces your attention to it, and so on and so on.
This is also why, when I hear people use aggressive, pain-engaging language about their approach to pain, such as "Im going 'Full On Sarno' or say "Im going to fight this with everything I got" or "I am going to beat this thing no matter what it takes" they are already set up for failuire.
In doing so they are doing exactly the opposite of what you should do.
You dont engage. You disengage. |
| Fox |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 08:08:31
But also I can just direct my attention to my left ankle and the sciatic pain starts - whereas it was not hurting beforehand - monitoring/searching for the pain. |
| Fox |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 08:04:16
Happens all the time with me and my sciatica - think about running - the pain starts - think about throwing a right cross (boxing) - the pain starts. This indicates a high level of conditioning regarding certain feared activities. |
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