| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 15:58:47
My mother has had chronic pain for years. I have posted about her in the past. Everytime I feel I am about to make a psychosomatic breakthough with her, she jumps back on the spinal bandwagon.
She scheduled a lumbar discectomy last Spring. I told my brothers, "mark my words, she will have the surgery and either the pain wont go away, OR it will go away only to be replaced by a new, DIFFERENT horrible pain that will require immediate treatment." I describe this to them as the well known Symptom Imperative, which I suffered from.
She had the surgery. She claims no more horrible leg pain (although back pain still horrible). Shortly therafter, excrutiating and nauseating headaches that went on for months. "This WASNT THERE BEFORE THE SURGERY" she hysterically claims. Of course not. I told her that this was essentially the symptom imperative, that its teh tension she holds that will constantly manifest pain somehehere. She seemed right on board. Seemed to really think that this TMS thing might be on to something.
Then a week later she 180'd and scheduled a cevical surgery because her MRI said she had a cervical disk bulge, etc etc. I was totally against it but did not interfer. I told my 2 adult brothers "you watch, she will have this surgery. Mark my words, there will afterwards either be no relief or yet ANOTHER problem that she will feel the need to chase down.'
Last week she had the surgery. Three days ago my oldest brother informs me that she said "I need an MRI because I need to see what the hell is going on!!" Apparently the head pain is "gone" but now she has this awful awful neack pain.
She's only a week out and they did an X-Ray. NOW, a NEW doctor says she has spondylolisthsis (where there is a modest slippage of one vertebra forward of another) and that she was "surprised" the previous surgeon didnt ALSO fuse THIS level. She said surgery was defnitely indicated.
Now shes scheduling a THIRD surgery. The last doctor, who was a "savior" before the surgery is now a "quack" for "missing the obvious"
She hasnt been calling me but has been calling my two brothers, sometimes sobbing, sometimes drunk, often overmedicated. All of us brothers now call them "terrorist calls" because that s what they are. The phone rings and there is this hysterical mentally ill mother on the line.
The one that doesnt listen. The one that you can talk to for hours and come up with different ways of veiwing things but then she goes right back to woshipping our latest priests and prophets: the Unquestionable M-DIETIES (MDs), the "men of the cloth" (read: white lab coats instead of robes) who preach their holy book (Index Medicus or whatnot) and we all stare and listen in awe.
Im done. I survived three surgeries myself by these people. The medical institution is about to carve my mother to pieces. With both parties only too willing to cut and carve, while pockets are lined and false hopes become just that.
whatever. |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 19:14:53
Oh dont worry Sue. The doctors have now found the new "cause" and it correlated with site of pain. Liek it was the last 2 times. (oh, wait, this time its a NEW pain but we also now see the problem in this NEW area we missed before). Operation is imminent.
Third time's a charm. Or the 4th. |
| sue |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 16:05:14
I am new to this, but from what I have read, I think that it is important and required to see if the site of abnormality could truly be a cause of the pain in the location it is felt.
Please respond,
Sue |
| yogaluz |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 15:08:46
HNY,
You are right to equate your mother's behavior with addiction. Your childhood experiences read like a carbon copy of mine. Though my mother isn't an ortho addict, her addictions to alcohol, food, and overspending have left her in poor health and filing for bankruptcy.
I read two very good books that helped illuminate my mother's mental illness:
Surviving a Borderline Parent.... by Kimberly Roth
and
Understanding the Borderline mother by Christine Ann Lawson.
Many of the cases in these books are extreme but in each story, I saw pieces of my own mother and was able to finally get the fact that I had absolutely nothing to do with her problems and that I continued a relationship with her at my own peril.
We still communicate, mostly by e-mail because it seems to keep things on a more even keel but she will never again be a significant part of my life and is not part of my children's lives.
Sounds like you have your own family now and you're right to place your priorities with them. I've done the same and feel a great sense of pride in overcoming my childhood to become a good (well, maybe decent), loving mother. However, my own personal experience is one of great sadness over my mother's condition despite all the boundaries I've managed to establish. There is that continual tug that makes me want to believe everything can be ok and that I will be able to support her in her darkest hours. Then, knowing that I can't in order to keep my own sanity, I worry and wonder what's to become of her. It's heart wrenching when I manage to get past the anger.
Seems like you have a plan and are moving forward. Just offering a little support from someone with very similar experiences to yours and Skizzik's. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 11:44:14
hellny,
thanx for being so candid. I so relate to what you are going thru. I had to escape from my mom when I was 17. I went to live with my dad, and he was'nt there for me either, but at least he did'nt constantly bring me down.
Other kids were put to bed with encouragement, or a fairytale, when = expressed anxiety, my mom would just tell me to pray that i don't get taken by satan, and that i must say 21 prayers a night or i would burn in hell. She was too messed up to work, but was on time for church each and every day. She would take my dad's child support and give it to church, that tool Pat Robertson at the 700 scam, or her pathetic "yes friends" who she dug up from the slums that kept telling her how wonderful she was.
Leaving her opened my life up and I became happy as i saw there were normal people in the world afterall. I hate myself for leaving my younger brothers behind, though eventually returned for them and took them to my dad's later. I've gone thru long periods of her not around, and things are better. When I do try to be there for her things are bad, she goes into manipulation mode, and she drags me and the family down so much.
I don't mean to hijack your thread Hell, like you I could go on and on, but I just want you to know that many of us know exactly what you mean, and it's a case of wanting more or better for someone than they want for themselves which is a true sign of love.
I think that having the kind of mothers we did added to the sand foundation we were brought up in. Which creates anxiety and tension based on the conditioning patterns that we gotta make it for ourselves, we have no foundation to fall back on for support. Which takes me to my life where as good as I have it, it will always feel like the bottom is gonna drop out. |
| catspine |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 00:33:31
In adversity remember to keep an even mind. Horace. |
| marsha |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 15:05:16
My comments were in response to your posts. What you talk about is your mother's inability to grasp Sarno's theory of TMS and your frustration in her continual attempts to fix her problems with surgery.
You speak about how hard you try to help her.
There is no way anyone can know what you have been through unless you tell them.
Now you have.
Marsha |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 14:07:38
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Your mother needs your support not your anger and frustration. She cannot help that she doesn't subscribe to Sarno's theory about TMS.
I am probably about the same age as your mother. I believe that my pain is psychosomatic. I have recently starting improving after a three year relapse.
Three years is a long time to be in constant pain. My children think I am wacky. They cannot understand why I would not go to a pain management doctor, chiropractor , orthopedic surgeon or physical therapist.
When I talk about my beliefs they roll their eyes. My husband at least listens but doesn't think I am correct. He tries to be supportive . Yet, in September he had hip replacement surgery. He was convinced that his pain would be gone. It is. Go figure..Hopefully it won't turn up someplace else.
I supported him when he decided to have the surgery and helped with his recovery.
Why wouldn't I. I love him. He believes what he believes..Only about 20% of the people who hear about TMS actually believe it is the cause of their chronic pain.
What you are asking of your mother you probably couldn't do yourself. You believe what you believe..not what she does.
She is you mother and she is suffering. Hold her hand, tell her you love her and let her do what ever she thinks she needs to do.
Asking someone to believe what you believe is like asking someone to believe in your God not theirs and no matter how you explain the reasons why they cannot believe.
Marsha
She does not receive anger and frustration from her children but rather continual support which I have given her for years. And yes, she can help what she chooses to pursue or not to pursue.
I'm 40 years old. Its taken me years to reach this point. What you are also not aware of is the 30 year history of her always concerned about herself and herself only, long before chronic pain developed. Prior to the pain it was emotional distress and depression. Prior to that it was bulemia and anorexia.
How about having a 13-year old child being exposed to a mother who threatens to kill herself with scissors saying "Im gonna do it!"? This is decades before chronic pain. How about the number of times this woman never returns phone calls or emails, or if you get through, claims she "is busy but will get right back" and never does? How about christmas gifts that are sent that are never acknowledged? How about the scores of times she forgot to pick up her own children from school or afterschool activities because she was "lost" in something that that engrossed her at the time? One time my brother walked home 8 miles. How many times have the three of us boys received alcohol-laden phone calls but oinly when she wants something...like money?
What kind of a mother has no pictures of her own children anywhere in her house but calls them up (only rarely) only when she needs something?
It is impossible to communicate accurately family dynamics in a message board. But suffice to say: enormous psychological, physical and emotional support has been afforded to her for a very long time. Eventually there arrives a time when you have to know when to engage and when to keep your distance -- if even for self preseveration. Especially when you have a borderline or frank alocholic parent whose odyssey into chronic pain is only the latest in a string of pathologies. Eventually, only the person can pull themselves out.
I appreciate your comments because Im sure you stated what you thought was right. But like so many things from families, it is very difficult to make a judgement on the outside about what to do without knowing the inside.
As for myself and my brothers, it is high time we start caring for our own families and stop subjecting ourselves and our children to an extremely negative and narcissitic personality that has all but forgot the needs of others. I firmly believe her own behavior affected us in mnay ways not the least of which is the sense of tehworld as an insecure place and teh development of chronic pain and other oddities. For sure, we will not subject the grandchildren to such modeling. |
| marsha |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 21:22:31
Your mother needs your support not your anger and frustration. She cannot help that she doesn't subscribe to Sarno's theory about TMS.
I am probably about the same age as your mother. I believe that my pain is psychosomatic. I have recently starting improving after a three year relapse.
Three years is a long time to be in constant pain. My children think I am wacky. They cannot understand why I would not go to a pain management doctor, chiropractor , orthopedic surgeon or physical therapist.
When I talk about my beliefs they roll their eyes. My husband at least listens but doesn't think I am correct. He tries to be supportive . Yet, in September he had hip replacement surgery. He was convinced that his pain would be gone. It is. Go figure..Hopefully it won't turn up someplace else.
I supported him when he decided to have the surgery and helped with his recovery.
Why wouldn't I. I love him. He believes what he believes..Only about 20% of the people who hear about TMS actually believe it is the cause of their chronic pain.
What you are asking of your mother you probably couldn't do yourself. You believe what you believe..not what she does.
She is you mother and she is suffering. Hold her hand, tell her you love her and let her do what ever she thinks she needs to do.
Asking someone to believe what you believe is like asking someone to believe in your God not theirs and no matter how you explain the reasons why they cannot believe.
Marsha |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 17:42:19
quote:
Originally posted by skizzik
quote:
Originally posted by HellNY
I dont call her anymore. I dont want to. She knows what I think. As I explained to my brothers, Im not going to get sucked into her "emotional vortex of hell."
Sounds harsh but I think a good number of you know exactly what Im talking about.
are you kidding? I'm beginning to think we're brothers that don't know about each other!
you know hell, you've mentioned the similarities of us before with the scrotal pain, the male anorexia, not to mention...hmmm, forgot....oh yeah, crushing lumbar pain , and now we can add to the list "crazy mothers"!!!
"Spondylolisthesis" too, was something that my mom just found out about. Argghh!
I too have come to the conclusion that me and my mom's relationship will be "on again" "off again" for the rest of our life. Oh well. Maybe we can hook them up and they can worry together?
Oh they excel at that. And of course transmit this behavioral pattern to their children. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 16:37:53
quote:
Originally posted by HellNY
I dont call her anymore. I dont want to. She knows what I think. As I explained to my brothers, Im not going to get sucked into her "emotional vortex of hell."
Sounds harsh but I think a good number of you know exactly what Im talking about.
are you kidding? I'm beginning to think we're brothers that don't know about each other!
you know hell, you've mentioned the similarities of us before with the scrotal pain, the male anorexia, not to mention...hmmm, forgot....oh yeah, crushing lumbar pain, and now we can add to the list "crazy mothers"!!!
"Spondylolisthesis" too, was something that my mom just found out about. Argghh!
I too have come to the conclusion that me and my mom's relationship will be "on again" "off again" for the rest of our life. Oh well. Maybe we can hook them up and they can worry together? |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 15:04:33
Thank you all. The only down side to this is that I have a genuine feeling that the only way for me to deal with her is to more or less deal with her as I would a "junkie." She keeps falling back into the same addictive patterns. After a while you have to distance yourself, still loving them, but you have to. I just cannot subject myself to her sobbing freakish phone calls and continual "desperation" all the while ignoring the options I have given her to think about. Its too painful to deal with "horror after horror after horror" all the time -- especially when it partially self inflicted.
I dont call her anymore. I dont want to. She knows what I think. As I explained to my brothers, Im not going to get sucked into her "emotional vortex of hell."
Sounds harsh but I think a good number of you know exactly what Im talking about. |
| catspine |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 00:40:36
Isn't it ironic?
To do something right one needs experience which of course comes from doing it wrong...
Don't forget not to repress your anger TMS is always looking for an opportunity...if it gets too bad then that's what forgiveness it's for.
Live happy. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 23:42:12
I've found that with Mothers, you want to help them so much to be "better" or get well, or come in to save them with things, especially physical.
I go through the same with mine. I worry about her so much that I forget that she has the right to totally screw herself by bad choices like me...Mom's are human after all.
Even when you would think they know better, or even say to YOU they know better, but still go ahead with a bad decision. Can't save Moms, even though every part of a caring Son wants to.
If she makes a disastrous mistake (surgery, pills, etc.) it's her decision, you can only be there for her at the end of the decision or choice. It sucks but there's really nothing you can do other than FORCE something on her, and that's not gonna happen.
And yes, most of the medical community NEEDS there to be a structural problem, they poison people's minds with those mantras, your Mom is just another victim.
It's frustrating to have a person you love say "Oh yeah, I totally see where you're right, I agree"....then they turn around with a complete 180 and go the opposite direction...espeacially when it has to do with their health.
I've learned, you just gotta let people live life on their terms, even if they are complete junkies or misfits. People all have their own mistakes to make.
---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon
"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 19:25:41
quote:
Originally posted by mala
Has she read any literature on TMS? Could you perhaps give her Sarno's books , introduce her to some good TMS websites?
Maybe if she read about TMS it would sink in better.
Better still would she perhaps consider going to a TMS doctor?
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
All been tried. She does what she wants. Im sure many people have dealt with the same problem. |
| mala |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 19:08:12
Has she read any literature on TMS? Could you perhaps give her Sarno's books , introduce her to some good TMS websites?
Maybe if she read about TMS it would sink in better.
Better still would she perhaps consider going to a TMS doctor?
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| HellNY |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 18:24:37
I just think its so eye opening to see this process from the outside lookingin . Years ago, I did exactly as she did. Thought the same way she thought, made the same choices. When you see it for what it is now, its like a serial pathology with the medical commmunity more or less accomplices in the whole matter.
The only good thing that will come from it is that, after 3 surgeries, and no success, she is really going to arrive at that point that I did. Where you really have to ask yourself "why are the surgeries not working?"
And perhaps then other possibilities arise in your mind. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 17:50:53
It's a no win situation all around, because she probably always reminds you that your'e better cause you had 3 surgeries. Three times is a charm right?
|
| HilaryN |
Posted - 01/17/2010 : 16:43:08
HellNY,
I'm so sorry to read your posts about your efforts to persuade your mother and your disappointment that she doesn't listen.
You must feel so angry and frustrated that she doesn't pay attention to you and sad that she has to go through so much pain.
Best wishes,
Hilary N |
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