| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 07:56:10
My irritating sciatica like feeling comes one instant and is gone within a couple of minutes. Then it instantly comes back. It is like it only leaves when I am at an ultimate calm state. Even when I relax, I usually have discomfort. However, my pain comes and goes while sitting at work. When I can really feel my anxiety calming, the pain usually goes away. It is weird because everyone else who I know who was diagnosed with a disk herniation only feels pain once or twice a year. My pain is every day and pretty constant. I believe that to be because I am a worrier. I analyze everything. I worry about finding cancerous lumps and about losing those people around me that I love or like. It is horrible to live that way, but I do. I also am realizing that I get myself so worked up by worrying about the pain coming back that it stirs up anxiety which brings on pain. I am also extremely impatient, so I am not surprised that the pain is still here. Each day I open my eyes and start to slowly move my leg to feel if the pain is still there. As I fall asleep at night, I move my leg and think and wonder how long this pain will last. How many days my life will be ruined by this fear. I really believe that I would benefit from a TMS doctor actually viewing my MRI. I don't have any around me so I guess I will have a much slower path to recovery. I just still wonder if surgery would work considering that it would totally cancel out the structural diagnosis. Once that is gone, then I would be able to focus more on the emotional issues. |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MikeC |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 11:14:49
Carol,
His name is Dr. Eugenio Martinez at New England Batist Hospital. He seems like a good guy to deal with and very compassionate which is something that we all need. There is also Dr. Jay Rosenfeld at Cape Cod Rehab Hospital in East Sandwich. I met him as well (I had set two appointments in case I couldn't keep one) as he was also nice to deal with. Go for the guy that is closer to where you live.
diverlarry,
Thanks for the comments. I can't disagree with what you say. Maybe the only difference with out situations is that I feel that the Sarno approach is the way to go. I could probably blame myself that I am not recovered yet because I wasn't faithful to the program. Dr Rosenfeld told me that you HAVE to do this EVERY day. He handed me the instructions from Dr. Sarno's NY lectures and that point is emphasized. So I am back reading 30 pages per day and starting to list my issues. Actually, Dr. Rosenfeld brought up some stuff that I didn't even think about. That is why people need to try to go to a practitioner if they can. Dr. Martinez has volunteered to be my coach through this whole process and he realizes how difficult this concept is to understand when you are trying to do it alone and perhaps facing criticism from others.
Good Luck to all,
Mike C |
| diverlarry |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 05:53:08
MikeC
The doctor i went to was at New England Baptist. Her name was Cristin Jouve. She was aware of Doctor Sarno and TMS and believed in the mind body connection. I think there is another Doctor at NEB that is listed as a TMS doctor. She said the same thing about breaking the pain-fear cycle and that things would get worse before they got better. She agreed that fear was biggest factor for most people. Everyone has their own time table for recovery. And mine was not a 6-week intensive PT session. At that time i did not fully believe in TMS. So i was destined to fail because i thought the exercise'e were causing the pain. The fear was so intense that my mind used TMS to create symptoms so i was bed ridden so i did not have to go. It was one the worse flare-ups i had ever had. I could not get up or even move for 2 weeks. I kept wondering why i was in so much pain, yet there was nothing wrong with me.
Looking back i realized it was the best thing that happened to me.
I finally read Doctor Sarno's books and everthing finally made sense.
I did the work/recovery at my own pace. I have had my ups and downs.
As time goes on i do more and more. I do things now i have not done in years. Life is so much better now.
Its difficult to start doing physcial activities that you have not done in years when you are older and have TMS. When you start doing things that you have not done in years you will be sore. Then you wonder if its TMS or just being sore or if it is a injury. Exercising at 50 is much different then exercising at 20 or 30. Then add in TMS and its a big battle. If i sat on my ass all day i would probably never be sore. I want to be able to play sports and be very active.
I see that a lot in people here on the Forum. People here are very active.
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| Carol |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 08:27:29
Mike C, can you tell me the name(s) and location(s) of the TMS doctors in Mass? I went to Dr. Sopher when he was in NH, but he now has moved to vermont. We are only about 45 miles from Boston. I would love to try a TMS doc again. I think Dr. Sopher might have sabotaged my recovery by telling me that my age (65) might prevent my recovery.
Carol |
| MikeC |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 07:25:23
diverlarry,
Mike C here. Thanks for the input. Actually, my TMS physician is a huge Sarno fan and believes he is much closer to the truth than most other docs. He uses the therapy to break the pain-fear cycle that Sarno talks about. They say that you can probably expect an exacerbation of symptoms but when you find out your not crippled by them( although it sounds like you were)you do more things which breaks the fear-pain-fear cycle.
I'd be interested to hear who your physician was. By the way, I am a huge believer in Sarno. I felt the need to go to a physician to help me get through the rough spots and hold my hand.
Thanks,
Mike C |
| diverlarry |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 05:52:28
Mike C
Im from Massachusetts. I went to a Doctor who siad i was fine and she sent to me "aggressive" physical therapy.(Back Boot Camp). Most of the exercises were back exercises that are not suppose to be good for you. It did not work for me. I actually got worse and worse and ended up in the ER in spasms and then bed-ridden for weeks. The people at the "Back Boot Camp" worked under the therory of weak muscles and fear were causing the pain. They wanted you to push through the pain no matter how much it hurt. The course also included stretching. None of this worked for me because i still believed the exercise was the cause of the pain. You also can't get rid of 20 years of programming in a few PT sessions.
Im fine now. I read DR Sarno's books, applied the theory,stopped stretching and started to live life again. I used the same approach as FarmerEd for doing physcial activities.
"Back Sense" by Ronald Siegel has some good parts to it. It does discuss the theory of stress related pain but then recommends stretching and back exercises.
The "Bible" is still Dr Sarno's book.
TMSPain: See a TMS doctor. Read the books. Apply the theory. Start physcial activities again. So many people have been where you are now. It takes time. Don't give up. What other choice do you have ?
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| NLK |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 17:26:10
Just for kicks, you might try focusing on some pinpoint area of your body besides were you say the disk herniation is. Pick your right shoulder, or one of your heels, or a big toe.
Now put ALL the worry and emotion you put into your disk and focus it on that new, unrelated spot. Every time you think about your back and start feeling anxious about it, think of that other spot. See if you can MAKE it hurt, just by focusing all your energy on it.
Forget about the disk for now... and DON'T get surgery.
And every time you think about the disk, follow it up by thinking about the new spot. You might even set up a little reminder for yourself - set a timer to go off every 10 minutes - and every time it goes off, make sure you think about that other spot. The goal is to try to make yourself focus on that other spot MORE than the disk. It sounds like right now, you don't think of anything more that that disk, and your entire life revolves around it, what it's doing, how it feels, and all of that makes you very anxious.
So spend a few days deliberately making yourself think about something ELSE besides the disk (and why not make it something physical). And if you catch yourself thinking about the disk, follow it up with some intense focus on the new spot.
And then in a few days, see how you feel.
But in the meantime, make sure you focus every fiber of your being on that new spot.
Try it and see what happens.
Nancy |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 14:24:00
TMSPain,
The time has come for you to see a TMS Doctor or a TMS psychotheraist. |
| Tunza |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 12:24:57
TMSPain,
My apologies if you have already responded to this question in another post:
Since this is clearly affecting your life to such an extent is there some way you can go to another state to see a TMS doctor? I don't know what expense this would entail for you but is it an option as you seem really stuck and it could be the difference for you.
I live in New Zealand and I wish we had TMS doctors here. I entered a competition recently from a chocolate bar promotion and the prize is a trip to the U.S. If I win I want to travel to see a TMS doctor. I would also bring my mother who has TMS too. Here's hoping.
Kat |
| TMSPain |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 12:06:15
I have been watching Dr. Sarno and reading his books and listening to his tapes for 2 years. I get better during some days or months even without his training. That is what makes me upset. I feel that when I don't practice Sarno, I still have some days with relief. My pain does feel like an emotional barometer. As I sit, I starts to flare up like a nervous stomach feeling. I want so badly to fully accept that TMS is the only thing causing my pain. It is just so hard because of the pain being exactly where my herniation was. I have so many worries and fears, but feel that the only thing I think about is my back and will I get better? That is what runs my life. I can feel my body stiffen up and almost physically freeze when I go to bend over. Even though there is usually no pain when bending, I still worry. I can sit, but pain comes and goes while sitting. I played golf all last summer with no pain. Then when the summer ended, my pain returned. I did get little hints of pain throughout the summer. I believe Sarno now more than ever, but I just feel like I can read everything, but as long as I don't truly accept it, nothing will happen. I know what he is trying to express in his theory. I do understand it, but I always think about what if it is not the case for me. Why don't I have relief yet? I constantly say that. As soon as I get some relief and I feel as if I have broken a programmed action, it starts up. It is like I expect the pain to be there and it comes. I miss physical activities so much. The strange thing is, I know many with disk problems who can lift weights and do a lot, yet they only get a little pain once or twice a year. I am so frustrated and nervous that this will last forever. |
| MikeC |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 11:30:27
TMS PAIN,
You are always going to have doubt (like I did) until you go see a TMS practitioner. I have a few in my state (Massachusetts) but didn't go to one for months (I actually went earlier this week and he was great) becuase of reasons that I created in my mind. At this point, he is sending me to "aggressive" physical therapy. Not for the basic knee to chest stretchs but for the "functional restoration" exercises which includes bending the "wrong" way to pick up heavy objects. The idea is for you to realize that if you can pick up heavy things without hurting your back, how can your back be truly "bad". Do yourself a favor and read "Back Sense" by Ronald Siegel. Someone else mentioned it on this forum and it develops the theory of stress related pain in a more detailed process that Dr. Sarno does. Remember, there are too many people who get better using this methodology. However, I recommend you find your way to a TMS physician so it can alleviate your doubt.
Good Luck,
Mike C |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 10:42:21
TMSPain, what you describe sounds very like the state I was in at my very worst - around two years ago. I had an MRI scan also, which showed a partially collapsed vertebra and a herniation of the disc below - very scary stuff. The pain/anxiety/more pain cycle is just horrible - I've been there, so I really do sympathize.
Are you being pushed towards surgery? You say that if you have it it will rule out the structural diagnosis. Do you mean if you have the surgery and you still have pain then you can accept that it probably is TMS? Sounds really risky to me. The medicos might even suggest more surgery! It happens. You seem to want very much to believe that your pain is caused by your emotions, but you just can't quite get there yet.
The fact is that you recognise that your personality type would make you a prime candidate for TMS - very like many of us who post here - me for one. You can't enjoy your life because of the constant, 'What ifs?' Getting to the stage that you can live in the present and live your life fully is not easy, but it can be done. Honestly, it can. At my worst, like you, I felt my life was ruined - but it wasn't. Two years on, I hardly ever have back pain - and this was the pain that had me practically immobilized on many days, unable to do anything much around the house, unable to do my job, unable to drive, unable to pick up my new little baby grandaughter.
Unlike you, I bought the TMS diagnosis right away. No treatment, exercise or medication had done a damned thing for the pain, but a light went on when I read The Mindbody Prescription. My recovery was gradual and, as someone who, like you, suffered from anxiety, I had to tackle that as well as TMS - a two pronged attack in a way. TMS thinking for the pain and reading widely on anxiety conditions - that might be beneficial for you. There is some great stuff out there - books that have stood the test of time.
Like Tennis Tom, I practise my TMS treatment on a daily basis - mainly by coming to this site - that is all I need now.
Best wishes
Anne |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 09:25:55
TMSPain,
I used to have sciatic/TMS pain at work. It's gone now thanks to reading Sarno's books repeatedly, watching his videos, listening to Dr. Schechter's cassettes and being active on this board. I can sit for hours, drive cross country, sleep, walk for hours with NO pain. The only activity that gives me some pain is playing tennis for more than 4 hours a day without forcing myself to ease up. I think that is a TMS success story. I can do all the normal everday things with NO PAIN. The pain I get is from being an aging athlete and as I improve my tennis technique, I am lessening my pain there too.
I practice my TMS on a daily basis, to exercise and develop my mind just like I exercise my body on a daily basis. You need to learn TMS fundamentals in order to do the "mind" work right. It's like doing a sport right. There are fundamental techniques to doing a sport or exercise correctly, otherwise you irritate the body parts and get "bad" sore rather than "good" sore afterwards.
TMSPain, you are relatively new to Sarno I assume, and I reccommend you keep studying TMS fundamentals. It took your brain perhaps a lifetime to develop the thought patterns that have created your TMS pain and it will take some time to change those thought patterns. But you have a good coach, Dr. John Sarno.
Regarding seeing a TMS doctor, why don't you combine it with a vacation. Where do you live? Or, do a phone consult with a TMS doctor listed on the links of this site. Mail them your MRI or maybe they can be transferred over a computer some how. |
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