| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| cgjohnson |
Posted - 12/07/2009 : 10:11:09
I've been reading lots of self-help books and have been thinking about mindfulness and Tolle's Power of Now and how those ideas compare to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. CBT teaches you how to examine a thought, indentify it as 'bad' or distorted, and come up with a countering thought that is 'good' or logical. Power of Now or mindfulness just says to watch the thoughts come and go and not be bothered by them ("watching the thinker").
These seem to me to be somewhat opposing ideas (confronting a thought versus letting it slide by) and I'm wondering if there is a way to either combine them or figure out which to follow. Clearly people are helped by both methods, should I just flip a coin to figure out which should to follow? Yes, it's my perfectionist tendancy coming out here to try to find the "right" or "best" theory. Perhaps I shouldn't even be asking the question then :) , but I've been doing mindfulness mediations daily for a while now and don't feel like I'm getting anywhere and it seems like CBT would be a good idea. |
| 3 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Monte |
Posted - 12/09/2009 : 11:24:20
Incorporate both as well as other practices like journaling or guided imagery. Your work is to communicate with the distraction strategy, your nervous system and the subconscious. When you can find practices that you feel good about using on a daily/weekly basis you are well on your way to successfully reversing tms.
Monte Hueftle
monte@runningpain.com |
| Hilary |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 15:36:22
I recently completed an 8-week course in MBSR (Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction) and I can honestly say it was one of the most useful courses of this type I've ever done. I've also done quite a bit of therapy, which is useful in a different way, and I've read a lot about "traditional" CBT.
The mindfulness course is based on the work of Jon Kabat-Zinn, and taught me a lot about what K-Z calls "a different way of knowing". The "knowing" is getting away from the way we usually try to work out problems - by analysing, comparing, trying to make decisions, thinking, thinking. It's watching the breath, feeling the body, listening to sounds without judging, and letting thoughts come and go. I've read the book forest mentions, "Presence Process", and Tolle's work, and both are useful and interesting but I really needed the support and structure of a group to help me go deeper into this work.
I would say mindfulness is less about letting go, which implies some degree of effort or action, and more about accepting what is happening right now in the present. So you notice an angry thought, and then notice the response in your body: the chest tightens, the shoulders come up, the face gets hot. You resist nothing, but you hone in on this feeling - without judging. You let it expand if it wants to, without judging it.
This, to me, was the clearest understanding I've had of what it truly means to "feel your feelings". That's one of the reasons I liked the course so much.
Watching your thoughts or feeling your feelings without getting attached to them is very very difficult. This is not about being without feelings or really peaceful or buddha-like. It's just about noticing what's happening and not trying to get rid of it. "Feeling of tears behind the eyes, feeling of lump in the throat, stomach tense" or whatever. You just notice it. And you don't try to change it. Sometimes (not always) it changes of its own accord.
For me I've noticed a few things. For example, one day when I was meditating I noticed that I felt sad, and immediately noticed that I then had the thought, "pathetic". I realised that although I tell myself all the time that it's okay to feel my feelings, on a deeper level I think it's not okay. It was like I was immediately trying to get away from that sad feeling. That revelation, small as it was, was a big shock to me.
In terms of choosing what kind of approach to take, it's unclear in your post if you're actually considering therapy. Don't forget that TMS theory advocates psychotherapy - therapy that examines your past, which neither CBT nor mindfulness will do. As far as CBT goes, my understanding is that mindfulness is "the new CBT" and represents the most up-to-date approach to thinking about thinking, if that makes sense. |
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 13:04:24
I personally believe that different things work for different people. Positive self talk works very well for some people, and I would consider it part of CBT. In this TMSHelp thread, CRK recommends a book called "What To Say When You Talk To Yourself," which other people have said great things about as well. However, I don't think that there is any "one size fits all" solution for everyone. Others have found terrific results with a mindfulness approach. If I were you, I'd try both.
If you have been struggling with Tolle, you may want to check out the Presence Process. About it, one Amazon reviewer wrote, "Years ago, I read Eckart Tolle's "The Power of Now". It's a fantastic book but I found it difficult to achieve the state of present moment awareness it describes. "The Presence Process" is the "how to" manual to achieve this priceless state. Michael Brown's brilliant book has substantially deepened my understanding of this subject." More info here. There's also a massive, 191 post, discussion thread about various TMSer's experience with the PP. If you post to it, all participants in the thread will get an email (unless they turned that feature off), so you are sure to get plenty of feedback if you have any questions.
One final thought... You wrote, quote:
Yes, it's my perfectionist tendancy coming out here to try to find the "right" or "best" theory. Perhaps I shouldn't even be asking the question then :) , but I've been doing mindfulness mediations daily for a while now and don't feel like I'm getting anywhere
I think of mindfulness as being about letting go, and you have to apply mindfulness to your study of mindfulness. Therefore, I remember reading somewhere that you aren't supposed to worry about whether you are making progress with mindfulness. To worry would be to not be being mindful, if that makes any sense.  Your perfectionist tendencies might be undercutting you!
Or, alternatively, you could just go with CBT if that feels better for you. I say, "follow your gut."
Forest
My story at tmswiki.org |
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