| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| guej |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 08:23:32
Has anyone been given as their diagnosis "chronic pain" and still recovered through the Sarno methods? In journaling and writing about my experience, I realized that the "chronic pain" diagnosis seems to be the physical cause that I am stuck on. I don't have the typical herniated or bulging discs, or other MRI type physical changes that are often blamed for the pain. In fact, most of the doctors I saw could not find a physical reason and just diagnosed me with "chronic mysofascial (muscular/tissue) pain". As it was explained to me, when pain continues over and over, and is not managed, it can cause physiological changes in the nervous system so that the nerves shoot off pain signals at normal movements or touch. For some reason, that sank into my conscious. I had repudiated a physical cause for the pain because I know the pain is not because of my fused spine, or anything other condition in my back, etc. However, I realized lately that I did let the "chronic pain" diagnosis stick with me. When I mentioned it to Dr. Sarno during my appointment, he discounted it and said there is no such "disease" as chronic pain. Why am I having such a hard time letting go of the fear that was instilled in me with that diagnosis? I'm just wondering if there is anyone out there who was told they have chronic pain and that there wasn't much they could do about it, so manage it, yet they applied Sarno's program and got rid of it? |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| flutterby |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 07:15:24
guej - I think you have answered your own question in the words you chose!
There's a world of difference between 'resigning' yourself to something and truly 'accepting' it. (The former is a 'victim' approach.) |
| guej |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 06:52:15
Plantweek, I was thinking about your post, and all the other posts I have seen on this forum from people who decided to accept the symptoms and just stopped trying so hard to get rid of the pain, and that seemed to be what eventually got them pain-free or at least, much better over time. I can understand how all the worrying and constant working to address symptoms can actually cause resistance and maybe even perpetuate the condition (e.g., journaling constantly, visualising, affirmations, reading TMS books, being on this forum, etc). I'm also trying to relax a bit more over this situation, and not drive myself crazy doing, doing, doing, and then wondering every day why the pain is still hanging around. So....here's my follow-up question to that approach, and maybe aleviating this fear will help me let go with more confidence:
What's the difference between the people on this forum who decide to stop fighting pain and learn to live with it, vs. the thousands of "chronic pain" sufferers or "fibromyalgia" labeled people who aren't on the TMS bandwagon? Before I found Dr. Sarno's approach, I would sometimes browse those chronic pain forums, and boy, were they scary. Just tons of people on meds all the time, who were resigned to a life of pain, and were just commisserating. My guess is that most of those people do not get better but are managing their pain for life. Yet on this forum, there are people who come to accept their pain, go on with their life, and seem to get better over time. There must be some subtle difference with the 2 groups.I guess there's a fear in me that if I stop doing the TMS work/focus, then I'm no different than all those people who are managing their pain on a day to day basis, but not getting better. Is it that those of us who are TMS believers know that there isn't a physical cause or disease (e.g., fibro) behind the pain, so we know there is no physical reason we should be in pain forever? I think it would be interesting to hear from those of you who went the "acceptance" route and got better over time. There are enough of us on this forum who are doing the TMS work and didn't get the fast cure, who could use a dose of confidence that if we let go a bit, we can still find eventual recovery. Thanks! |
| Plantweed |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 06:44:07
I decided to stop trying to fight the pain. Told myself, Fine, my back hurts and will always hurt, just have to live with it, stop worrying about it. And it's starting to slowly get better. |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 11:54:33
quote:
Originally posted by guejThe good news is that I'm back to living my life, in spite of the pain. I don't put pressure on myself for a quick cure anymore, but it sure would be nice to see some breaks in this pattern so that I could gain a little more confidence that someday it will be gone all the time.
This is the right attitude. Trust that you will see 'proof' in time if you maintain this mindset. However, you might get so used to ignoring the pain, you won't even notice when it subsides! |
| guej |
Posted - 09/30/2009 : 09:30:02
Thanks hottm8ho, and everyone else who replied. It's been tough. Constant pain has been a tricky one to ignore. It shows up every day and lasts, and lasts, no matter what mood I'm in, or what I'm doing. There has not been one day, in over a year, when I wasn't in pain for the better part of the day. Once it's "on", it doesn't shut off until I'm asleep, and then it's back "on" the next day. It's mentally and physically exhausting.
The good news is that I'm back to living my life, in spite of the pain. I don't put pressure on myself for a quick cure anymore, but it sure would be nice to see some breaks in this pattern so that I could gain a little more confidence that someday it will be gone all the time. I get the whole concept of faith and believing you will get better, but I'm human, and somedays I'd just like to see a little proof! Anyway, I stay away from all "chronic pain" literature now and turn the TV channel anytime the discussion is on treating chronic pain. I don't want to reinforce the concept of "pain" as a disease, and especially, as something incurable.
Sarnofan, if you are reading this, would you mind dropping me an email through my profile? I've gotten all the labels you did, and I would love to chat "off line" briefly. Sounds like you had to battle constant pain and hopeless/incurable labels too, and won. It's always the best source of hope when you meet people who have been in the same shoes as you, and succeeded. Thanks again to all. I appreciate the encouragement. |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 09/28/2009 : 08:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Dr. Sarno is right. "Chronic pain" is not a diagnosis. It is a symptom.
By ruling out any serious disease or structural problem, you should feel safe to treat the pain as TMS and follow Dr. Sarno's suggestions.
Everyone has a hard time "letting go" of the physical explanations for the pain. It is a strategy your brain has used successfully for many years. You have to fight it and do the work required to recover.
This is the exact argument I had with my doctor. Just prior to discovering Sarno, I went to a new physical therapy/chiropractic office. After about 2 weeks of treating me, I asked, "What is my diagnosis?" The doctor said, "Your diganosis is chronic pain." I said, "That's not a diagnosis. That's a symptom. How do you know how to treat me if you don't know what's causing the pain?" After that, I was sent for an MRI which showed the TINIEST of abnormalities. They told me that I shouldn't be in as much pain as I was given the results of my scan.
It probably took me 6-9 months to really see consistent pain relief. I was hung up on my feelings about the pain itself. I would panic over the thought of it coming back and how bad it was going to get. That reaction is what made the pain keep coming back. The "self-talk" methods in "What To Say When You Talk To Yourself" really helped me to get rid of the last of the bad programming. |
| guej |
Posted - 09/21/2009 : 17:09:56
Winnieboo: If you are still following this thread, thank you for the Claire Weekes book recommendation. I was in the library today returning DVDs, and I had a 1/2 hour to spare so I decided to see if they carried the book. They did, so I grabbed it and sat in a nice comfortable chair! It was a little paperback, and a quick read, so I checked it out of the library and I'm about 1/3 of the way through. I like it a lot so far. Just some more practical insight into how fear feeds the symptom, which increases the fear, which makes the symptom worse, etc. Even though her book focuses on anxiety disorders, if I substitute "pain" for the other symptoms she describes, it's perfectly applicable. And anyway, anxiety and fear are what's perpetuating and at the root of my situation, so I can relate to a lot of what she describes. Thanks again. |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 12:48:16
Claire Weekes' "Hope and Help for your Nerves" has the best description of the fear.
There are two layers: the first is an emotional fear that triggers a physical symptom. She calls that first fear/physical symptom a "bogy", or little monster.
The second fear is the one that causes the bigger trouble. It's the what iffing related to "bogy." What if I have this pain forever? What if I die? What if I don't treat it?
Her cure is pretty direct and simple. Desensitization. She warns it's not always quick, but it involves just four steps.
1) facing the "bogy," acknowledging that the pain is "just a bogy!"
2) accepting that it's there
3) floating by it (or, letting it go, ignoring it, going on with your business, or as Sarno would instruct, turning back to the emotional).
4) letting time pass. Habits can take time to break.
It's not anything that we haven't all heard or read, but I think her analysis is the most direct. Definitely a title for your bookshelf and worth reviewing all the discussions for each of the steps.
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| Dave |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 09:17:01
quote:
Originally posted by guej
...I am definitely in an extremely heightened nervous state because of the fear that the pain will never go away, and what that means to my life...
The fear should be seen as a symptom as well. The fear can be even more powerful than the pain. As far as your unconscious mind is concerned, it serves the same purpose: to distract you from the underlying psychological issues.
First you have to accept the pain for what it is: a benign signal that there is something going on in your emotional life that you are pushing down and not dealing with.
Treatment is about reconditioning yourself to think about and react differently to the pain. At first you have to force yourself to do it but over time it should become automatic. The more you do it, the more your unconscious mind will get the idea that you are not falling for its tricks anymore. The key is to take a long-term view and trust that over time, the pain will subside. Until then, ignore it as best you can and always shift your thoughts to your emotional state. Try to uncover the feelings that are too 'forbidden' or 'dangerous' to face up to. Be totally honest with yourself, even if you don't like what you find. |
| guej |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 06:17:16
Dave and Sarnofan: Thank you so much. Sarnofan, your explanation is right on the money. After I had ruled out any back issues or other physical cause for the pain by last Spring, I was left with a chronic pain diagnosis. I even went for 6 sessions to a therapist who specialized in helping people manage chronic pain. She was the one to explain the physiological changes to me, but basically presented them as irreversible, so we would have to work on how to manage a life with pain. I would leave her office crying every week.
I then stumbled across Dr. Sarno's books, made an appointment with him, and dumped the therapist. For the first time, I had hope. It's funny because I thought I had achieved his number 1 rule: "repudiate the physical cause for your pain" because I truly did believe that my back (where I had surgery when I was teenager) was fine. What I didn't realize was that for me, the "chronic pain" diagnoses WAS the physical condition I was stuck on. I am definitely in an extremely heightened nervous state because of the fear that the pain will never go away, and what that means to my life. I can tell, not just from the pain, but from the anxiety I feel every night that has led me to have insomnia for a year now. I exercise, I'm tired at night, yet I lie awake every night unable to fall asleep without pills. As Louise Hay states in "You Can Heal Your Life", insomnia is from not trusting in the future or that everything will be alright. Isn't that right on the money!
I can't believe I was hopeful for these past few months and then fell right back into a trap yesterday. My husband came home from a business trip and he bought us all a little souvenir. After he gave the kids their stuff, he gave me a book "Chronic Pain for Dummies". Writing this now, I'm laughing, but yesterday it wasn't funny! He really is a sweetheart, and meant well and probably thought it would be helpful. I had about 2 books already on managing chronic pain, that I had removed from my desk and shoved into the bottom of a closet after I started the Sarno program. Out of politeness to my husband, I sat down and started perusing the book. It immediately triggered all my old fears about not being able to reverse chronic pain and learning how to live with it, etc, etc. I got so upset. The good news is that once I regrouped, I put on my sneakers and ran outside for 20 minutes, effortlessly, just to prove something to myself. When I picked up that book yesterday, I thought I was way beyond being influenced. Not! This whole little "re-lapse" made me realize that I'm still vulnerable to my old fears, and so its better for now to not even go near anything that could play on that anxiety.
Thanks again for the reality check. As much as I try to explain all of this to my husband, it's not the same as getting advice from people who have been there.
P.S. The one thing that the pain management psychologist did say that made a lot of sense is that it is typically the high strung, high anxiety types that tend to develop the chronic pain syndromes. No sh--! |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 00:43:12
The explanation: "...when pain continues over and over, and is not managed, it can cause physiological changes in the nervous system so that the nerves shoot off pain signals at normal movements or touch."
This is true, but it only means that your body is now in a heightened state of stress so that you perceive pain and stimuli more. Then your fear keeps you in a constant anxious/painful state so your nerves are more 'touchy'. But you can reverse this process.
This is the CONDITIONED response that Sarno talks about. What you really fear is that this is a "permanent condition" and it is not! You can "undo" these physiological changes in your nervous system. First you have to get rid of the fear, focus away from "chronic pain" as a disease, and believe that it is classic TMS or unrecognized anxiety.
There's an excellent anxiety website (www.anxietycentre.com) that can also help. It lists the symptoms of anxiety (and they are all TMS equivalents!) and this can reassure you. I like their approach because they explain anxiety as a negative learned response that produces physical symptoms and it's not from a chemical imbalance or disease.
You can reverse chronic pain from an altered nervous system once you believe there's nothing physically wrong. Your body will then respond by calming down and your pain will diminish. Think of it like this:
If you think you see a snake as you walk into a dark room you will be immediatley startled. If someone taps you on the shoulder at that time, you will jump! If you turn on the light and see it was just a black rope on the floor (you are now convinced it is harmless), you will calm down and your physical state returns to normal, although your body may remain 'jumpy' for a while longer.
I was diagnosed with chronic muscle pain, fibromyalgia, neuralgia, neuropathic pain, etc. without any physical evidence (all tests were normal). These incurable labels stuck in my mind and kept me from getting better. My nervous system was altered as a response to constant fear. I was offered drugs to cope as if it was a disease: Lyrica, Xanax, etc. These temporarily dulled my nerves (and mind) but did not address the problem. The fear/worry was still there.
I finally accepted it was TMS/anxiety/tension. In time my body responded and healed.
Chronic pain is not a disease or a permanent condition. |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 19:40:34
Dr. Sarno is right. "Chronic pain" is not a diagnosis. It is a symptom.
By ruling out any serious disease or structural problem, you should feel safe to treat the pain as TMS and follow Dr. Sarno's suggestions.
Everyone has a hard time "letting go" of the physical explanations for the pain. It is a strategy your brain has used successfully for many years. You have to fight it and do the work required to recover. |
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