| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Piano5 |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 12:24:50
Hey everyone. I was looking at a message board that is based around doctors in Minnesota. The "back pain" category piqued my interest, and I was surprised at some of the posts about successful laminectomies, spinal fusions, sciatica procedures, etc.
Were these people suffering real pain, or TMS? Some of them sound like TMSers that got relief from surgery rather than exploring their unconscious. It's weird to read success stories from opposite ends of the spectrum: the psychological and the physical.
I'd be interested to hear what an expert on the subject thinks about these success stories. I'm sure there are TMS doctors that have had patients that opted for surgery and got better and worse. Granted, these blurbs are far too short to know their full stories, but Sarno has for the most part posited that all chronic pain, structural abnormality or no, is psychological. Obviously, the American back isn't degenerating, but these happy surgery-goers make me wonder about injury-induced pain and the ability to heal.
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| 4 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HellNY |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 18:47:45
A recent study was reported in teh news that found that some patients who had placebo back surgery showed significant, life altering improvement. This was referenced on this forum.
One might consider the possibility that the cognitive processes that are engaged during the so-called "placebo effect" are in fact the very same processes that occur using Sarno's approach.
Both involve a belief that you are no longer "damaged" and that the pain is "harmless." With Sarno, one belives he will get better because the pain is psychological, and there is no injury. With placebo, one believes he will get better because the "problem was fixed."
In either case, both activate a thought process that suggests that you are "not broken."
Sarno has stated his treatment is not placebo, because he argued that placebo is always temporary. I have never seen any data that supports the argument that placebo is temporary. Rather, it seems people are unwilling to give a permanent resolution of pain the name "placebo." This could thus become a circular semantics game where one says "how do you know its placebo? Because its temporary." and then "why is it temporary/ Because its placebo."
What if there really is such a thing as "permament placebo?" Or put another way, what we commonly call "the placebo effect" is actually a much bigger phenomenon with far more power than we currently conceive?
Might it be possible that Sarno and Placebo there are two sides of the same coin? And that both are essentially our thoughts and beliefs and emotions changing how we feel, as temporarily -- or as permanently -- as we give ourselves permission to? |
| flutterby |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 16:40:55
I was the one who was convinced it was 'all in my head'! |
| Piano5 |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 13:46:25
Interesting.
I've always wondered what Sarno or another TMS doc would say if a non-patient was chatting with them and said: "I had chronic pain and surgery helped me." (My dad had knee surgery 10 years ago and is healthy as a mule at 60.)
Would it be fair to say that the TMS doctors would suspect psychological angst in any non-traumatic injury that would have caused damaged tissues and bones? |
| flutterby |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 13:40:53
I had a laminectomy 25 yrs ago that did exactly what the surgeon told me it would do - enabled me to walk without pain. (And didn't do exactly what the surgeon warned me it wouldn't do - rid me of all my back/leg pain.) I don't think it succeeded because it was a placebo. I was very unwilling to believe the surgery was necessary and was only persuaded after getting a second opinion from a neurologist. And it was AFTER the surgery that I was told what to expect. |
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