| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 10:51:21
Okay. I've been preaching TMS to my son and yesterday he had an MRI. Today we were told he has a RUPTURED disc in the low back. He has had increased pain over the year. He's an elite athlete in a high contact sport. He doesn't play now due to pain but needs to get back in the next few weeks or he may miss a season again (pressure!). He was just referred to a neurologist and I worry this will prolong rather than cure his problem).
At this point, we are told this is different from a Herniated Disc so I want a "Sarno" take on the RUPTURED discs.
My son is devastated even though I told him it could be a "nocebo" effect and not a tru cause of his pain. I don't want us to go down the structural diagnosis path, but the doctors of course are scaring us into thinking this is serious.
Any thoughts |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 14:16:22
Update: My son is doing better. He is playing his sport three times a week, going to the gym, but not at 100% yet. He is still stiff and sore in the mornings. No magic cure yet, but he is soooo much better!
His spirits are up and is doing well. |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 07/26/2009 : 23:04:27
It has been 10 days since I updated this thread. My son is doing better. He's going to the gym daily, easing into his sport and stopped thinking about "TMS" too. He takes 2 Aleve if needed, and maybe a sports massage the day after a game (as he conditions himself to increased activity).
He said that a daily obsession with TMS "treatment" itself was also making him focus too much on his pain! He has simply accepted the TMS theory: that his pain will decrease, cease and maybe even return sometimes. He also didn't like journaling daily. He journals only if he "feels" something really bothering him and/or his pain increases.
The word "disc" doesn't come up anymore. Instead, he is visualizing having fun in college and playing his sport again.
As a family we no longer focus on his pain or the disc diagnosis.
We cancelled all follow up treatments and appointments so that we are no longer reminded about "the disc".
Basically, he got the TMS concept, forgot the disc, stopped fearing his back, and got back to doing physical activity slowly. I would say he is 75% better now and still improving.
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| SarnoFan |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 19:37:03
My son cancelled his second epidural ijnection, stopped going to PT and has been doing the Shubiner on-line therapy/journaling, although not daily. His back is more flexible now, but he still has a "knot" in his upper right glute that "catches" him when he gets up from a sitting position and causes him to limp until he walks a little and then it subsides. Bending over still bothers him but he is now able to flex all the way backwards (which he couldn't do before). He is feeling better more days now.
There really is a growing epidemic of back pain/herniation diagnoses lately and the victims are getting younger. I don't remember, in all my years growing up, hearing of people with back pain starting in their teens or twenties.
My son's friend, just got a 2nd injection yesterday and quit his summer job because of back pain. He doesn't play sports. I walked into my office yesterday and a 25 yr old had her arm in a sling. She said it is to keep her arm from extending because she got a herniated disc in her neck while playing with her niece in the pool. She spent the night in the ER and got an MRI. She's terrified about getting surgery. She feels her arm is numb.
Geez! Where were all these young people two decades ago?
I tell them to relax, the disc issue may be coincidental and not a direct cause of their current symptoms, and all they may be having is an acute spasm! This really does go over their head, afterall, who am I to know better than their neurosurgeon!
Anyhow, I will keep posting until my son is back to playing his sport pain free! He is optimistic. But the fear does creep back in on and off.
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| SarnoFan |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 23:47:52
I agree Webdan. I am struggling with the TMS vs Physical in my son's case. I seem to be asking and answering my own questions with my own posts! In one post I am confused and in the next one I post evidence that herniated discs or broken backs are not related to long term pain.
I believe the struggle for me has to do with the fact that it is not about me, but about my son. I was convinced of TMS in my own pain experiences after 2 long battles to cure my own pain over the years. I now answer my pain/symptom flare ups with "Oh,here we go again. What's bugging me now?". Knowing, with confidence, there is nothing to fear and it goes away. (BTW I have herniated discs too, but they were discovered while looking for something else).
Because my son is a young athlete and just got the MRI diagnosis, it all got hurled at us: appointments for treatments were set up immediately which further clouded my own thinking and response.
Then I have my husband, the other caring parent, who is a scientist and who has never had chronic pain. (Yet, he has been through worse traumatic experiences than me and most others.) He consults with not one, but TWO friends who are neurosurgeons, and two other doctor friends who tell him "this is serious stuff and proper treatment/rehab must take place" . He tells me I could be setting up our son with further disability if I don't follow our doctors' advice, and we need to wait/back off on the TMS stuff. He says it in front of our son which causes more stress.
So it is not just a battle between me and my own mind. Or my son and his mind. I guess I've been doubting myself out of respect for a father's opinion, the sake of science and perhaps my own insecurity with my child's suffering.
Nonetheless, there is hope and light at the end of this tunnel and I foresee this thread ending happily at some point.
Today, my son did a lot of physical activity and reported he feels great. He was so happy and at peace. He said he will continue Shubiner's program and get on with "TMS therapy". At the same time, my husband set up an appointment to take him to physical therapy tomorrow to discuss what he should/should not be doing. I warned that this may cause his symptoms to increase only because he will be focusing on the physical.
I told my son to look at it as one "last stab" at physical treatment and to confirm the TMS theory. I also explained to my son that his dad's thinking is completely rational because that's how 99% of the world sees it, and that "dad" has never battled the TMS demon, therefore, how could he EVER understand it? It sounds crazy if you have never been forced to face it.
This is why this forum is so valuable to TMSers. We know we are not nuts..we're just "too sensitive" ,"fearful" and "chronic worriers".
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| Webdan65 |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 21:19:19
Here's the challenge. When continuing activity before the pain has subsided enough, you definitely can fall into the trap of believing "I worked out or played sports and it hurt the next day - so therefore it MUST be physical."
I'm not suggesting that your son sit on the couch for weeks or months with no activity at all. However, Sarno does point out that you should resume activity when the pain has reduced enough. Doing it too soon will delay progress. Not because you are hurting yourself physically, but because TMS has not let go of the pain yet and combining physical activity with pain will keep you soooo focused on the body that TMS won't let go.
As for the injections - I agree and say no. Injections are very invasive and are done strictly for relief, not for a cure. Not only that - further injections will keep you and your son focused on the body.
TMS treatment is the least invasive process possible. All it requires is a change in your thinking. A change in your self talk and mental programming. A change in your belief system. And it does require banishing fear. I'm not sure if your son has bought into TMS yet - but it doesn't sound like you have either. You sound like a believer, yet you question it.
When you say: "Still struggling to confirm if it's TMS or true discogenic pain. Time will tell I guess." That is clearly doubt.
I'm not criticizing you at all. We all have our doubts. In my experience in 12 years of fighting TMS on and off. I am only successful when I have eliminated all thoughts of a physical cause from the equation.
A parting question: What harm could come by completely devoting oneself to the Sarno method of treating the pain? There's no invasive procedures at all. And....your son can continue to resume activity as he is able. No different than he's doing now.
But every visit to a traditional doctor. Every injection. Every conversation that says you are waiting to confirm TMS or "discogenic pain" feeds the TMS engine.
Fear and programming are playing a big part in your sons continued pain. He expects to feel bad a day after he is pretty active. And sure enough - he is. If the disc were really the problem - why wouldn't it hurt during the activity?
I'm not sure where I'm going with this rant - but I do believe you and your son won't see progress as long as you continue giving credibility to the disk diagnosis and the belief that the pain is from a "real problem".
Just my two cents. Hope it helps.
Dive into Shubiners course 110%.
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| JoeyT |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 19:01:05
Interesting study.
If you did an MRI of all of the lower backs of all elite level athletes in all sports, I think you would be hard pressed to find a normal one..Look at football, there is no way ANY of them have normal lower back MRI. But back surgery is a very rare thing in football. Honestly I don't hear of very many in any of the sports...Also think about how much these athletes weight train all year...
In fact Sarnofan I would bet a lot of money that your son has teammates on his team with disc issues as bad as his but have no pain...Again I do not see how you can play elite level sports(especially football) and not have some back abnormalites..But how many have back pain, not many and if they do it does not last for weeks and months... |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 16:30:44
INTERESTING ARTICLE (pasted below) ON TEENAGE ATHLETES SUPPORTS DR. SARNO's FINDINGS IN GENERAL. ALTHOUGH THE ARTICLE BELIEVES THAT THE EXCESSIVE TRAINING CAUSES DAMAGE, THESE ATHLETES ARE NOT IN PAIN! AND MANY PEOPLE IN PAIN AS ADULTS WERE NOT ELITE ATHLETES. KEEP THIS IN MIND AS YOU READ THE FINDINGS. I find this interesting for my son's case.
LONDON, July 19 -- Elite teenage tennis players with realistic visions of Wimbledon may be developing silent lumbar-spine abnormalities, researchers reported. Action Points
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Explain to interested patients that this small study suggests that the intense training techniques for young elite tennis players need to be modified to reduce the risk of progressive musculoskeletal damage during their vulnerable growth-spurt years.
Stress injuries during the growth-spurt years are thought to play a role in the increased occurrence rates of musculoskeletal injuries in players' late-teen years, David Connell, M.D., of the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital in London, and colleagues reported online in the British Journal of Sports Medicine.
Until now, few studies have looked at the risk factors predisposing the athletes to these injuries, and, beyond rest, little is known about possible preventive measures, Dr. Connell noted.
In an observational study of 33 asymptomatic elite adolescent tennis players, MRI scans found injuries in 28 (85%).
The players (18 male), mean age 17.3 (16 to 23), were recruited from a national tennis center.
Sagittal T1, T2, STIR (sagittal short tau inversion recovery images), and axial T2 weighted MRI images were reviewed by two radiologists.
Five players (15.2%) had a normal MRI, and the rest had abnormal studies, including synovial cysts, disc degeneration or herniation, pars lesions (fracture or stress reaction), and facet joint arthropathy, the most common finding, the researchers reported.
Abnormalities occurred predominately in the lower lumbar spine, almost exclusively at L4/ L5 and L5/ S1. Pars injuries and facet joint arthroses (in 70%) were also present, the researchers said.
Nine players showed pars lesions (10 lesions; one at two levels) predominately at L5 (nine at L5; one at L4).
Three of the 10 lesions were complete fractures; two showed grade 1 and grade 2 spondylolisthesis, both of which resulted in moderate narrowing of the L5 exit foramen.
There were two acute and five chronic stress pars reactions.
Twenty three patients showed signs of early facet arthropathy occurring at L5 and S1 (15 of 29 joints) and L4 and L5 (12 of 29 joints).
These were classified as mild degeneration (20 of 29 joints) and moderate degeneration (nine of 29 joints), with 20 of 29 showing sclerosis and 24 of 29 showing hypertrophy of the facet joint.
Synovial cysts were identified in 14 of the 29 joints. Fifteen players showed some disk desiccation and disk bulging (mild in 13; moderate in two) most often at L4 and L5 and L5 and S1 (12 of 15 disks).
Some of these injuries are acute or chronic stress responses and may be related to rotation, hyperextension (especially during serve), and flexion forces on the lumbar spine during play, Dr. Connell said.
Also, compared with other sports, tennis requires considerably more repetitive and rapid rotation and stretching of the lower spine. Furthermore, he said, the increased speed and types of strokes used in modern tennis all cause wear and tear on the lower back.
For example, the ground stroke, which is more front-facing, may increase rotational forces about the facet joint, especially when topspin is added, and particularly on hard courts, and also when a two-handed stroke is used.
In addition, the researchers said, increased speed of the ball, especially on grass courts, may play a part in the increased degree of rotation needed to return and control the ball.
A limitation of the study was its small size, a consequence of the dearth of British elite tennis players, the researchers said. Whether the players in this study were actually asymptomatic could be another factor. High motivation to return to their sport and strong career motivation may have caused players to under-report pain.
The large proportion of asymptomatic abnormalities in the players underlines the poor specificity of these findings, and other sources of pain should be considered, the researchers wrote.
These findings can serve as the baseline for a future prospective longitudinal cohort study with the aim of following the natural progression of changes and identifying the radiological risk factors for morbidity, Dr. Connell said.
Recognition of these changes, he said, is important so that training techniques can be modified to prevent progression to symptomatic disease.
No financial conflicts were reported. This study was funded by the Lawn Tennis Association.
Primary source: British Journal of Sports Medicine
Source reference:
Alyas F, et al "MRI findings in the lumbar spines of asymptomatic, adolescent, elite tennis players" Br J Sports Med 2007 :11-6. DOI:101136/bjsm.2007.037747.
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| SarnoFan |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 17:17:31
Update:
My son had the epidural injection 6/23/09 and we went on a long car trip the next two days (7+6 hrs). His sciatic pain was relieved but did have some outer ankle pain on/off. The injection site was very sore and we applied ice. He felt better after our vacation began, but he was still sore in the low back and right buttock. Especially after getting up from a sitting position.
I imagine that the soreness is from the muscle spasm/tension which is very slow to release (either from TMS or the herniated disc).
He has had some moderately active days and has felt better during the activity but ended up being very sore the following day.
Still struggling to confirm if it's TMS or true discogenic pain. Time will tell I guess.
I am keeping his spirits up by telling him that even if the pain is initially from the disc, it should subside within two months (it was at its worst 5/24/09 and diagnosed as herniation at 6/2/09) and the rest is TMS. He needs to remain active, and focus on returning to full activity and not fear further injury.
He is scheduled for two more injections(3 weeks apart).I am thinking he should not have them at this point because the Dr. said they are mostly for the sciatic pain and less effective for back pain. The sciatic pain is gone, therefore I see no need for more injections.
Now that we are back from vacation, he will try to focus on Dr. Shubiner's program. I am optimistic about it but he is gets down after having increased soreness the days following increased activity. I told him he must not let pain stop him and that eventually it will subside/disappear.
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| PRCalDude |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 15:31:27
quote:
Originally posted by SarnoFan
Peg and Webdan,
I agree. I still suspect TMS. My son did start Shubiner's program on-line before the herniated disc diagnosis on June 2nd. He started journaling but did not do it regularly because he was busy with exams...and not that motivated to do it. 18 year old boys are not that diligent. Also, he's probably not convinced yet that it is TMS 100% and that the program needs to help him from the "inside out" not by "osmosis". I told him that just doing the course will not help. He really needs to understand his thinking process and how his body responds to stress. After the injection(s), he will move closer to TMS therapy, or be cured "physically". Either way.
Here's an interesting story for all TMS doubters (including my son, who heard it first hand today):
While waiting for my son's injection, there was a lady in the waiting room who brought her sister in for an injection as well. Her sister has pain from having broken her back from an accident and two surgeries and titanium rods put in. She is still in pain after two years.
Now, the interesting part is that the sister (who brought her in) told us that she ALSO broke her back and neck years ago, and then again broke her neck a second time falling down 3 flights of stairs. She has titanium rods in her back and rods in her neck. She showed me the scars in her back and the front of her neck from years ago. She said, "...and I have no pain, imagine that! Just had pain during the initial healing phase."
How is it possible to hurt yourself so badly twice, have surgeries with steel repairs, and be in NO PAIN?
Whereas the TMSers have pain with much less damage and repair?
Exactly.
quote:
This proves that pain is very subjective and can't be measured by type of injury or MRIs. I use her as an example to my son now. She is in her late 40's and healed, with no pain. Her sister has pain.
Different personalities?
Yep. Anyone with more than one child or who has siblings knows that siblings vary widely in personality. It's probably a "portfolio diversification" by-product of our evolution. For example, Ghengis Khan produced many offspring. But, based on his personality, he was most likely to produce few and to be childless due to an early death. If a mother had children with identical personalities (ie, like that of Ghengis Khan), she would have fewer surviving children.
In this case, one sister has a ton of structural damage and no pain and the inverse is true for the sister. It has to be the effect of personality. |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 19:53:56
Peg and Webdan,
I agree. I still suspect TMS. My son did start Shubiner's program on-line before the herniated disc diagnosis on June 2nd. He started journaling but did not do it regularly because he was busy with exams...and not that motivated to do it. 18 year old boys are not that diligent. Also, he's probably not convinced yet that it is TMS 100% and that the program needs to help him from the "inside out" not by "osmosis". I told him that just doing the course will not help. He really needs to understand his thinking process and how his body responds to stress. After the injection(s), he will move closer to TMS therapy, or be cured "physically". Either way.
Here's an interesting story for all TMS doubters (including my son, who heard it first hand today):
While waiting for my son's injection, there was a lady in the waiting room who brought her sister in for an injection as well. Her sister has pain from having broken her back from an accident and two surgeries and titanium rods put in. She is still in pain after two years.
Now, the interesting part is that the sister (who brought her in) told us that she ALSO broke her back and neck years ago, and then again broke her neck a second time falling down 3 flights of stairs. She has titanium rods in her back and rods in her neck. She showed me the scars in her back and the front of her neck from years ago. She said, "...and I have no pain, imagine that! Just had pain during the initial healing phase."
How is it possible to hurt yourself so badly twice, have surgeries with steel repairs, and be in NO PAIN?
Whereas the TMSers have pain with much less damage and repair?
This proves that pain is very subjective and can't be measured by type of injury or MRIs. I use her as an example to my son now. She is in her late 40's and healed, with no pain. Her sister has pain.
Different personalities? |
| Peg |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 12:15:09
>"The physical exam did not have all the tender spots he was looking for, but maybe one or two"
One the other hand, you mention that your son has had " stiffness in his back, hips, legs for a year, even when his pain was minimal."
Couldn't this have been due to the muscle spasm that frequently is the manifestation of TMS. Those multiple areas seem to correspond to the areas that Dr. Sarno has observed tenderness in on physical exam of his TMS patients. Besides, why would a young healthy athlete have "stiffness in his back, hips and legs, for an entire year? That doesn't make sense to me, in terms of a physical, structural issue.
Of course you need to do what you think is right, and trying the injection for pain relief may be what's needed, but I didn't see any mention of your son reading one of the TMS books, doing any journaling, or speaking with a mental health professional.
I agree with Dan, why not try both approaches. Wouldn't that give your son the greatest posibbility of success (relief/healing)? Also doing some of the emotional work looking at his stresses and worries couldn't hurt.
Good luck,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 07:35:48
My recommendation:
While "waiting for things to heal" - pursue the TMS treatment as well. Work on reprogramming his mind to - I'm fine. My body is strong and getting better each day kind of stuff.
TMS is no invasive and won't complicate any of the physical remedies you are pursuing. In this way - you've got the best of both worlds. |
| SarnoFan |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 07:20:03
We saw a TMS doctor and based on his exam he wasn't able to conclude that my son is undoubtedly suffering from TMS ans nothing else.
The physical exam did not have all the tender spots he was looking for, but maybe one or two. His strength and reflexes were normal.
Based on the MRI and his symptoms, there is a possibility his current pain may be caused by nerve root compression or perhaps somthing else.
Since this TMS doc is a rheumatologist 1st, he took an xray and bloodwork to rule out arthritis. This was based on the fact that my son has had trouble with stiffness in his back, hips, legs for a year, even when his pain was minimal. The 'herniated disc' is probably recent, in the acute phase, and needs to heal. The issue now is...is it TMS anyway because symptoms appeared a year ago, yet peaked the last two months?
Therefore, he told us we should go ahead with the injection today that we had previously scheduled with our other doctor, to see if he gets relief.
My son has a follow up appointment in a couple of months to see how he has progressed with his epidural injection(s) and symptoms. This would also give the disc time to heal, if it is newly herniated. The L5 nerve root is compressed, and at this time the doctor cannot rule it out as the source of pain.
That's the update for now. I will write again with the results of the injection, rehab, and the TMS docs xray and blood test results. |
| stanfr |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 07:11:22
Hi SarnoFan,
Boy it sure does sound like your son has a classic case of TMS based on the self-imposed pressure etc he's put on himself. He's lucky to have you guiding him in the right direction. Don't go too crazy wondering whether a 'ruptured dis' or other problem could really be causing the pain, Ive been asking for a good explanation of the precise role disc herniations play in TMS for 10 years and have yet to get a satisfactory answer--the important thing is to realize the psychological component here is what's causing the pain, not the disc. The way you know this is that countless folks (like me) have overcome these MRI-indicated "pathologies" and we are pain free!
Hopefully your son will come to realize the true cause of the pain, because it will be soley up to him to accept that diagnosis, and unless he can commit to that, TMS therapy wont do any good. |
| Elorac |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 09:47:49
Hi, it sounds like you're doing all the right things. I wish you all well next week, whatever the outcome.
I'm sure that Dr. Sarno mentioned a patient of his who was a young athlete with a herniated disc, I'll try to find the reference for you, but I think it might be in "Healing Back Pain" and I have lent my copy out at the moment so I can't check that one. Maybe someone else can check that book.
Also, don't forget that, even if your son is diagnosed with TMS, Dr Sarno doesn't tell you to just jump right back in with your normal activities. He says that you should gradually reintroduce your normal activities when the pain is subsiding. If you try to do it too quickly your brain might still be programmed to expect pain. |
| pandamonium |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 05:40:22
I agree with what crk said on another post: if you go to a "physical" doctor, you're going to get a "physical diagnosis", and the more docs you see the more diagnoses you can have, take your pick! The fact that 2 or 3 docs can give conflicting opinions just tells me that none of them really know what's going on!
I'd stick with TMS unless a tumour can be seen, or something as serious.
I hope your TMS doc can diagnose your son, SarnoFan, and that he starts to become pain free. He has youth on his side and he should be receptive.
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 17:15:00
In the 12 years since I had my first twinge of back pain - I've learned a lot.
First let me say, that everyone is different. But we often experience some of the same stuff.
TMS has been the culprit every time I have had pain. Yet, despite knowing all about it and curing myself a number of times over the past decade - it comes back once in a while. And even a seasoned TMS veteran can fall prey to believing the mainstream doctors and physical therapists.
While there MAY be a possibility the herniated disk is pressing on a nerve - there are tons of proven and well documented study that shows 65% of people WITH NO pain have herniation's. That means out of 100 painfree people, 65% of them have what the modern medical community would call "bad backs". They would caution you to bend carefully, not to lift heavy objects, quit your sports, basically stop doing anything physical at all.
Just because something shows up on an MRI doesn't mean it is the absolute cause of the pain.
I'm crooked. Meaning, the base of my spine at the tailbone is about 1.5" to 2" to the right of my spine at the center of my shoulder blades. I've got a wicked tilt.
I was NOT in pain. However, I went to physical therapy to work on these muscle imbalances likely caused by poor posture and compensating for pain back when I had it. But the point is, I didn't have much pain when I started physical therapy.
Dr. Shubiner told me - being crooked doesn't cause pain. There are tons of people with scoliosis that have NO pain.
It took 6 weeks before my physical therapists completely programmed my mind to believe that I had a bad back and no wonder I hurt. When I was under the constant care of a PT, my pain escalated beyond anything I have ever experienced. 8 out of 10 all day - every day. I was the walking definition of chronic pain.
Only when I came to my senses and dove back into TMS and fired my physical therapist did I begin to work myself out of the chronic pain thought patterns I had developed. I do truly believe chronic pain and thought patterns work together.
You get what you focus on. What you focus on magnifies. Expect pain, it will be there waiting for you. etc. etc. etc.
That's why Sarno's program is to talk to your brain, think psychological - ignore the pain, resume physical activity.
Unfortunately - there IS a huge catch 22. Sarno cautions to get checked out by a doctor to make sure nothing serious is wrong. Cancers, tumors, etc. However - when a MD tells you you have a herniation - our natural instinct is to go. "Holy crap, that IS serious." And from there, the though patterns spiral out of control.
My family wonders why I have seen so few doctors over the years - despite being in and out of some pretty serious pain. They just didn't get the TMS belief system that hearing "bad stuff" from traditional MD's will slow down the process of getting rid of the pain.
I've read recently that herniated and even ruptured disks can heal. Take an MRI a year from now and see if it is the same as it was in the last scan. The body is an amazing thing. If we can survive car crashes and amazing traumas from incredible accidents and recover to a life free of pain, surely we can overcome pain that seemingly came out of nowhere with no specific trauma.
My recommendation for your 18 year old son. Have him read, and re-read the sarno books. Tell him to commit to the journaling process. Perhaps all this self imposed, or coach imposed pressure to excel in school and in sports is enough pressure to cause these pain syndromes.
I guess my take is this: What does he have to lose by diving into a TMS treatment program. It is certainly less invasive than any traditional program of drugs, injections or surgery.
Lastly, when I dove into TMS to rid myself of my chronic pain - I stopped ALL exercises geared towards my back and fixing that crookedness. All I did was return to the treadmill and began lifting weights to prove to myself that I COULD do it and that I WAS NOT broken.
The less attention I paid to the pain, the more "normal" activities I resumed - the better I felt.
Hope this helps... And email me through the site if you want to talk off line.
Dan
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| JoeyT |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 16:21:40
quote:
Originally posted by SarnoFan
Well we are seeing a TMS doctor next week to clear our doubts.
This morning we went for a 2nd opinion with a spine specialist (orthopedic sports med) who said the same things and more: PT, strengthen core, avoid certain postures/movements, retrain how to play his sport (how does one really do that and eliminate pain?) then try injection and surgery would be last resort. This Dr. said he also suffered a herniated disc at age 19 and is still 'nursing it' in his 50's. NOT encouraging. Not suprisingly, my son's pain increased from a 5 to a 9 after the appointment.
I had the same issue when I saw my neuro back in November. First off I was a mess last summer with all kinds of crazy things happening to my body...About the first of September I got some low back and leg pain. It was not that bad at all but at that time, with everything else going on with it I panicked and convinced the doc to get a lower back MRI...Of course it showed I had bulging discs and pinched nerves..But my doctor did not seem overly concerned and even said that it could likey go away over time...Remarkable my lower back pain went away about 90%... Right before Thanksgiving I had an appointment with my neuro that was scheduled about 3 months early as a follow up to some shoulder/ upper back problems I was having.. I showed the new MRI of my lower back just to keep her informed. I had very little if any low back pain when I enter her office. After she sees my new MRI she suggests I find a new, less physically demanding job, and refer me to a back surgeon...( I never saw the surgeon.)...The funny thing is when I got home my lower back began to hurt and it never really went away..
I started some back exercise and began to were a back brace at work..Also I began to hate my job, because i felt I was doing damage to my back that would not ever go away..To me that was the real beginning of my chronic back pain.
Oh yeah the shoulder upper back problems that plague me for over a year has almost disappeared since the lower back leg problems started.. |
| Elorac |
Posted - 06/14/2009 : 08:08:17
I have never had an MRI so I have no idea if I have any bulging or herniated discs. I was told (before I knew anything about TMS) that I "probably had a bulging disc". So I can't speak personally in respect of herniated discs, and I still have the confusion I mentioned previously about whether or not we are to believe that a herniated disc CAN sometimes cause pain. Has anyone been assessed by a TMS physician and told that their pain IS caused by a herniated disc? I don't know.
However, I think there are a lot of posts on here written by people who were diagnosed with a herniated disc, and who followed the TMS route and eradicated their pain without any medical procedures. Also, people who tried medical procedures to no avail and then succeeded with the TMS approach.
Has your son read any of these posts? It might help.
A formal assessment for TMS is probably what's needed to clear the confusion.
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| pandamonium |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 14:38:43
although in some ways you could argue that it would be easier for a 17 year old to accept TMS than some of us older folk!
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
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