| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pericakralj |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 06:56:56
Hello everyone.I posted earlier about my severe anxiety.I am much better since i am back to TMS approach and going angain to my theraphist.But i have One more small problem which scares me just a little bit.
I have tested positive for candida in my digestive system,in my stool,about 2 months ago.Although i dont have any serius troubles with my stomach,i wanted to cure it.I took some homeophatic remedies and after month i have been negative.Then last week i decided to test my self again because i have heard that it can return,and that scared me.When i was taking my remedies for the first time homeophat told me to avoid sugars and white bread...So i did,and when i came back negative i returned to eat all of that in large quantites. So when i tested again i came back positive again.I didnt do anything wrong to get this yeast infection again,just eating sugar.Didnt use any antibiotics.Can it be that recurant infection is result of TMS.Sarno say in his books that it can be.But i dont know how to treat it then.Should i use remedies to cure it again or should i ignore it like other TMS symptoms and let my immune sistem do its work?I am full of represed emotions and there is so much work to be done ,says my theraphist.
I suspect it is TMS because i was afraid that it will return for a few days and then tested and it did.Someone wrote on this bord ,,what you expect,you will get" so i am little confused.
How to approach it this time? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| pericakralj |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 17:04:47
THX jeff.
That is exactly what i wanted to hear. |
| Jeff |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 12:11:17
I don't know how much I can add to the discussion, but here is my two cents. It is normal to have candida in your digestive system. In recent years there have been theories that "candidiasis" may exist when you have an overgrowth, and candidiasis can actually cause a wide range of symptoms including GI tract distress, pain, etc. On my own personal journey, I went through a period of time (before I discovered TMS) where I had multiple symptoms and no concrete medical diagnosis. It was then suggested to me by an alternative healing professional that candidiasis was the problem. As fate would have it, that is when I met with a TMS doctor in Washington, D.C., and I immediately stopped worrying about candida and focused on TMS. It is now two years later and all of my symptoms are gone (although they do flare up from time to time). For me, I do not believe that candidiasis is a real condition. It is one of those conditions (like prostatitis) that people point to when they don't know what is wrong with you. No one really knows what causes candidiasis, or what can cure it, and that is always a tip-off that it isn't real. In my view, worrying about candida is more of a problem than the candida itself. Sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but it is my personal experience. |
| pericakralj |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 06:20:09
Thx for your replay alexis.
I read all about yeast on this forum and i am confused because no one here who thought that they might have yeast problem didnt test them selfes.I read also about yeast on web and i dont belive in candidiasis which cause all illnes know to man,and i know these sites are made to make money whit no evidence that this illnes even exists.There is no evidence buy sience that this condition exists,accept persones with hiv or cancer.They can have this illnes but its very rare,and it can be tested for.
But again,i am liitle cofused because doctor found candida in my stool.Now i my country it is problem ,but when i look at web i found that that test is unrealible and that most of people would be positive for candida in their stool.
So i just dont know what to think? |
| alexis |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 05:31:48
quote:
Originally posted by pericakralj
What do you all think?
I know you seem to be hanging here so I'll risk another unpopular answer. The majority of people I've met through TMS/psychosomatic discussion believe the yeast theory is mostly bunk. I suspect they hesitate to comment in this particular case for a few reasons:
1. Legal liability in many countries, and particularly the US, for what would amount to a diagnosis.
2. The fact that most arguments against this theory come from the same folks who think homeopathy is bunk. As a result you don't appear to be a receptive audience to evidence based science, and so we don't know what would convince you.
3. Most people here are not in a medical profession. So while #1 often applies, #3, fear of overstepping ones area of expertise, is probably even more pressing. If one hasn't had the "condition" and hasn't read the research, it's not too appealing to comment.
If you use the search functionality you'll find many previous discussions on yeast that might help you make your own decisions. And you can find many articles, even online, discussing both sides of this debate. But some of this same research will also point out the futility of homeopathic medicines for this dubious condition, and that's where the more scientifically inclined of us fear to tread in a debate with someone who has declared allegiance to a non-scientific field.
I don't know what medicine(s), homeopathic or not, you took for your chlamydia, or what tests you had before or after. I don't know how long you waited for this treatment to "work". As for nasal infections, my own sister, despite advice to the contrary, refuses to use any medications at all for hers (she has had a few) and they have thus far cleared up nicely on their own -- no treatment. Your one case proves nothing about a system, only that you are willing to make scientific judgments based on a single case study.
I also don't know if what you were given was really something "homeopathic" or put under that label to make it more appealing...I don't know your local laws or conditions. But your belief in this system is not irrelevant to the information people will present you, nor is it to the type of evidence you are likely to believe.
Note that I'm not saying yeast is never a problem. People with certain medical conditions do suffer very specific yeast related illnesses. I have know idea if you have one of these conditions or illnesses. Good luck.
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| pericakralj |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 05:19:28
I didnt want this topic to turn about homeophatic medicine.
I just wanted your opinion about candida.
I really cant understand how can placebo cure chlamydia in my uretra.I was diagnosed with it,used homeophatic medicine and then tested tree times again and was negative.Did i cured my self just with my faith in medicine,dont think so.
As for candida i researched ab bit and found out that stool test arent realible because they almost always show candida because its part of normal flora.
So i will continue to treat my symptoms as tms. |
| alexis |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 21:25:13
quote:
Originally posted by drziggles
This isn't to say it doesn't help some people, but that it does so purely by placebo effect (which shouldn't be scoffed at!).
drziggles, I agree the placebo effect is not to be scoffed at and that's why normally I would hesitate to burst such delusions. But in the case of people suffering a TMS-like syndrome I think these crutches has a more serious role, and belief that these treatments have genuinely "cured" one of something hides the magnitude of the psychosomatic syndrome. In other cases, as long as real medicine (physical or psychological) is not abandoned, the extra hope and comfort in a placebo drug may well outweigh loss of dollars going towards such things.
Then again, I think it might be better to "believe" in the healing power of chocolate, for which there is arguably more science, less cost and undoubtedly superior side effects. When I need a placebo that's my drug of choice, and I'll quote even the more outrageous Swiss studies until the last square is gone. |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 16:01:13
I think you know your answer.
Researching things online can be frightening, as you've found. There's so much info from so many people. You must also remember..... you are picking up on the authors energy. If you read something that is full of doom and gloom and fear...... how do you think you might feel from reading it? You already know... as you've done it.
You could also ask yourself why are you looking up more stuff about Candida? Is it legitimate... or is it out of fear and avoidance? My mind can use such "curiosities" as a way to once again....avoid the present moment.... keep my focus on the body and away from what I'm feeling. By looking up info on the body..... I can get myself into a full blown depression and panic instantly. I just let it go....... down the river of muddy thoughts. It serves me no good treading in such waters. Do you see the point?
I guess I'm sort of "out there" because I see the cause of everything as life itself. The blame game stops there. What's the leading cause of death? ..... Being born.
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| pericakralj |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 14:22:41
First of all i know that homeophaty is not placebo.It helped me too much times.When i had bacteria in my nose i cured it with homeophaty,when i had chlamidia i cured it with homeophaty.
SO i belive in it.
I just wanted to ask what are you guys think of candida?I know its part of normal gut flora,and i know that test for it arent reliable.
Since i am old tms-er just wanted to know could my symptomes be TMS or candidda related.I have minor pain in stomach that moves all around and dissapier when i dont think about it.But since i read so much stuff on internet about candida,i got a bit scared.They say that it can cause just about everything.But there is not one sicentific proof for that.
What do you all think? |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:28:44
What is misunderstood about homeopathic remedies is they are not "medicine" as defined by the allopathic view. Repeat.... they are not medicine. They are not intended to be substitutes for drugs. The allopathic way of thinking cannot grasp homeopathy because it's medicine is based on material doses of a given substance. Homeopathy is based on the energy of the substance and it's relation to the energy of the patient. Likes curing likes. Take a surface skin burn, some boiled water touched your arm...... what do you do? Run for cold water? Ice? ..... try hard alcohol.... liquor. Place a dab on a swab and hold it there awhile. It will minimize the affects greatly. That's likes curing likes on the material plane.
Homeopathy works with the totality of the patient. Allopathic medicine treats the body as separate parts. The body is looked upon much like a machine, and the mind and soul are separate. You fix the broken part. It neglects the broken person.
What you may not realize, but Sarno's work is similar to Homeopathy. He works with the total person, not just the mind or soul. The guiding symptoms are of the mind and soul, not the body. He is giving no material substance to the patient, rather he is offering his energy. If this energy matches that of the patient..... something good happens. If not.... nothing happens.
If one does not believe in energy.... think deeper. Where does the energy of life itself come from? Where do thoughts and feelings come from? I do not have that answer..... but I do not believe science will ever have a clue. They can analyze and dissect our bodies, the universe and everything else until the end of time.... and they will be no closer to understanding how life works.
In pericakralj's case, maybe it was the correct remedy, maybe not. Hopefully pericakralj was given a remedy based on the totality of symptoms... and not just Candida. I'm not a Homeopath, but I'm offering this to the best of my understanding of classical Homeopathy.
Can the mind create Candida overgrowth? Can diet? ..... and how does this... if at all .... affect someone ? I'm sure it varies..... but I can't see how eating sugars and refined flours can HELP anyone who's trying to do any mental and emotional work. This part is easy to change. Looking within oneself is hard. Bodily pains and symptoms just keep us distracted from what's going on. It's called resistance.... and the mind is a master at it. It's not easy looking within... but once you have that awareness of the mind ... there's no turning back..... you can't make yourself un-aware. We may think we're taking steps backward, but we are not...it's not possible.... it's another trick of resistance of the mind. |
| crk |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:01:16
In my opinion, it's all connected. You cannot have a healthy mind without a healthy body. TMS can aggravate a physical condition, and being malnourished can aggravate your mind.
I believe that the best diet for our bodies and our minds is the diet we evolved on. It is sometimes called the Paleo Diet: http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html Sugar, grains, beans, and many other common modern foods have only been in the human diet for ~10,000, a blink of an eye in terms of our evolution. I do not keep a strict diet myself, but I try to stay very close to this diet, because I feel great when I do and I get infections when I don't. I hope this helps. Good luck! |
| drziggles |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 08:45:07
1. Candida is part of normal gut flora, and it is controversial if "candida overgrowth" actually signifies anything.
2. Homeopathy = placebo. I am open to many different theories, and the concept they espouse does make some sense. However, the dilutions of the substances that they utilize are so extreme so as to ensure that some preparations do not even have any molecules of that substance in it, just water! The idea that that would have any biological effect is not logical. This isn't to say it doesn't help some people, but that it does so purely by placebo effect (which shouldn't be scoffed at!).
Giving cogent arguments against a particular treatment shouldn't be regarded as against the spirit of this board. Our goal is not to support any treatment that comes down the pike. Respectful disagreements are useful and appropriate, in my opinion. |
| alexis |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 16:23:13
quote:
Originally posted by fibri
The United States is not well informed about H, and has few practitioners, so I don't think you have the right knowledge or background to judge it fairly.
Did you just question my right to discus a topic based on the country in which I live? Are you seriously assuming you have any idea of my level of knowledge on homeopathy (or architecture or microbiology or Japanese art) based on the country from which I am writing? If I was living in Nepal or Uganda or Peru would you have considered such a comment acceptable or recognized instantly it for the biased comment it is? I don't know everywhere you have lived, but I would be curious to know whether it would be acceptable in any of those places to say, for instance, to an unknown person giving an opinion from Afghanistan:
quote:
Afghanistan is not well informed about cardiac bypass surgery, and has few practitioners, so I don't think you have the right knowledge or background to judge it fairly.
Aside from the obvious ignorance and prejudice of the assumption that one does not know a topic because one is "from" a particular place, this comment also demonstrates a narrow assumption that because on resides in that country one is neither actually "from" another country nor has lived in multiple locations. You know nothing about me, my background, the countries in which I was born or have lived. Furthermore, these issues are not relevant to fact based inquiry or debate.
Your attempt at fallacious argument ad hominem is somewhat comedic given the point you are trying to make. I would suggest that you might question your own prejudices before expounding on those of others.
Because a large number of people in a particular country believe something does not make it true. There are irrational and unfounded beliefs everywhere, and the failure to see those of one's own region is certainly common, here in the US as in Europe, China and elsewhere. I merely stated an opinion and recommended further research. An opinion on a theory that you yourself describe as accepted "not on the basis of clinical testing". It is hardly radical to question such theories. My suggestion may be taken or left, as may be the hundreds of similar comments you'll see here from people who found relief after abandoning chiropractors, acupuncturists and herbalists. As may be the thousands of studies you will turn up on the subject in your local medical library.
My stronger comments were in regard to the disparagement of science in general, and that I do think has a direct impact on all of us interested in further research in this field.
* Just one example (light humor) that not all in Belgium are buying the homeopathy argument:
http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-05/belgium.html |
| scd1833 |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 13:50:45
this thread has gotten somewhat OT
first of all if there are no GI symptoms, why are you even concerned?
quote:
Originally posted by pericakralj
"I have tested positive for candida in my digestive system,in my stool,about 2 months ago.Although i dont have any serius troubles with my stomach,i wanted to cure it."
*candida is present in almost everyone but is kept in balance by the other (good and bad) bacteria. when it proliferates, it throws the balance of the GI tract off and causes symptoms*
" homeophath told me to avoid sugars and white bread...So i did,and when i came back negative i returned to eat all of that in large quantites. So when i tested again i came back positive again.I didnt do anything wrong to get this yeast infection again,just eating sugar."
*candida and other "bad" bacteria thrive on the sugars and starches in the diet*
"Didnt use any antibiotics.Can it be that recurant infection is result of TMS.Sarno say in his books that it can be.But i dont know how to treat it then.Should i use remedies to cure it again or should i ignore it like other TMS symptoms and let my immune sistem do its work?I am full of represed emotions and there is so much work to be done ,says my theraphist."
*candida infection is not TMS, but the mechanism that lets it proliferate may or may not be*
"How to approach it this time?"
*if you are concerned about it being in your system you should do more research and then decide what to do about it. The specific carbohydrate diet is designed to starve the "bad" bacteria by eliminating it's food supply of polysaccharides. your "no sugar" diet accomplished this to the degree that the bacteria was at a level that could not be detected by the test.*
*candida is only ONE of the thousands of strains of bacteria that exists in the human digestive tract, when they get out of balance we have symptoms, but TMS can cause many of these same symptoms.*
your best bet is to not eat too much sugar and take a high quality probiotic like digestive advantage, probiotics.com, primal defense, healthy trinity, or any of the many good products out there. the lack of sugar starves the bad bacteria, and the "good" probiotic bacteria "crowds" them out and outnumbers them. you may never be completely rid of the candida, but it will be in small numbers
I've used homeopathy myself in the past, but I suspect it may cure by placebo response....I don't know
|
| fibri |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 13:04:41
Alexis, I feel that your aggressive stance on homeopathy is contrary to the spirit (and topic) of this website.
Many people would and do scoff at Dr Sarno's approach and at the mind-body connection. Even if he has scientific research to back it up.
I don't claim to know how homeopathy works, but it does. And has done for over 25 years for me, my husband and kids, and all my in-laws. It is well recognised and acknowledged in many European countries and my social security even reimburses a part of it. All practitioners are also qualified medical doctors (in Belgium). It has gained recognition and acceptance not on the basis of clinical testing, but on the basis of its positive results for millions of people.
Just as practices such as acupuncture and hypnosis were only a short time ago regarded as nonsense but are now becoming standard around the world, so homeopathy has a reputable standing in many countries.
The United States is not well informed about H, and has few practitioners, so I don't think you have the right knowledge or background to judge it fairly. Many people don't get results because they self-diagnose and pick remedies that "seem right" off the shelf in a drugstore, often because they cannot find a reliable homeopathic doctor.
Just as here in [continental] Europe we have to do our best by self-diagnosis and self-treatment of TMS because we cannot consult Dr Sarno or psychotherapists that work with TMS. We just muddle along and do our best, with hit-and-miss success.
But at least people are in general more open-minded and less judgemental than you are. However, I wish you well on your personal TMS journey even if we disagree on this :-) |
| alexis |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 12:38:53
quote:
Originally posted by Garth
I will leave this subject on this note.... then back to pericakraij's thread.
I grew up where the Mayo Clinic is. I saw my late mother suffer from mind/body dis-ease since I was a child. I witnessed first hand how the "best minds" they had to offer failed to help her.....even putting blame on her. So...... that certainly has had an affect on how I view science. Just a bit of where I'm coming from.
The alternative is not non-science, it's just better science. |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 12:36:46
I will leave this subject on this note.... then back to pericakraij's thread.
I grew up where the Mayo Clinic is. I saw my late mother suffer from mind/body dis-ease since I was a child. I witnessed first hand how the "best minds" they had to offer failed to help her.....even putting blame on her. So...... that certainly has had an affect on how I view science. Just a bit of where I'm coming from.
|
| alexis |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 12:17:13
quote:
Originally posted by Garth
As much as I value the work done by Dr. Sarno ...... he's not to be put on a pedestal. I do not agree with --everything-- he says, or has opinions on. He's not an all-knowing person, and he's not the first person to make the connection of the mind and body. This has been known for a very long time.... well before "modern medicine" was even conceived of.
I very much agree with you here. His work is not unique, but found a niche and popularized itself in a way that has been useful. But my objects to his work are generally where I don't find it scientific enough, whereas it looks like you find it perhaps too scientific.
I suspect we disagree to some extent on what is scientific. I consider all observation based judgment scientific, but those theories drawn from small samples (such as ones own experience) and with disregard to conflicting evidence and wider numbers I see as just bad science...not something outside of science. To pretend it is something different is just to try to avoid the criticism of more rigorous observational argument. To claim to accept "personal experience" over "science" is just to admit you take bad science over good.
And while you may call mine a "scientific" mind, note that my scientific background and experience does not negate my academic credentials/experience in both the humanities and social sciences. I am well aware of the very paradoxical nature of reality, and the assumptions I and others work of on a day to day basis. While you cannot prove the validity of induction, you are working with that premise from day to day and could not be making any arguments at all without it. That is all science is, and to deny it is to contradict your own working premises. It's the easy way out when one doesn't like either the answers, the uncertainty or the amount of work needed to get to more rigorous answers.
And yes, psychology has, scientifically, studied this tendency to seek the simple. It's human nature. But it's because of our ability to overcome this tendency and to accept and seek the stronger and more complex answers that life expectancy has risen so widely since the adoption of the scientific method.
This isn't to say oversimplifications and false beliefs may not make you happier. But I think that to argue them is a waste of time. If you want to believe in, say, creationism or that vaccines are evil or in homeopathy or chi, you can ride off the work of others and enjoy both the dream and the benefits of modern science. But to try to impose those simplifications on the very people whose work has yielded those benefits (for instance, have given people the option freeload off the larger community who took the risk of vaccinations), is to sabotage your own quality of life. Better to quietly live in your own fantasy and leave others to slug it out in the harsher light of the real world. |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 11:57:29
quote:
Originally posted by alexis
According to your theory if I say the universe is a lab experiment by highly intelligent giant cats this is not bunk because it cannot be disproved. Well, no, it may not be bunk, but it is just a random theory among infinite possible random theories.
However, to claim homeopathy works is to make an actually claim that *is* verifiable. And the stats just don't support it. So no, I won't randomly be picking to believe in the this particular arbitrary theory because I don't believe it is supported by the facts.
Further, association of somatization and anxiety theories (researchable and backed by much good evidence) with this kind of unproven alternative medicine is very bad for the cause of getting it out in the public eye. Sarno himself has very pointed and not complimentary things to say about such alternative (aka unscientific) approaches.
I'm not here to debate science. Homeopathy is incongruent with allopathic medicine. I would not expect a scientific mind to understand. What can be proven in a test... or not.... has little to do with the human condition. Our current culture has such a Myopic view of the human condition it's a wonder we are still here at all.
As much as I value the work done by Dr. Sarno ...... he's not to be put on a pedestal. I do not agree with --everything-- he says, or has opinions on. He's not an all-knowing person, and he's not the first person to make the connection of the mind and body. This has been known for a very long time.... well before "modern medicine" was even conceived of. |
| alexis |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 11:25:10
quote:
Originally posted by Garth
Now.... what just happened? Did he slip you a material dose of some substance? .... a miracle drug? No..... there was some energy transfer that took place.... something that cannot be measured or quantified in any known way. So , does this make it bunk because it cannot be proven or reproduced?
According to your theory if I say the universe is a lab experiment by highly intelligent giant cats this is not bunk because it cannot be disproved. Well, no, it may not be bunk, but it is just a random theory among infinite possible random theories.
However, to claim homeopathy works is to make an actually claim that *is* verifiable. And the stats just don't support it. So no, I won't randomly be picking to believe in the this particular arbitrary theory because I don't believe it is supported by the facts.
Further, association of somatization and anxiety theories (researchable and backed by much good evidence) with this kind of unproven alternative medicine is very bad for the cause of getting it out in the public eye. Sarno himself has very pointed and not complimentary things to say about such alternative (aka unscientific) approaches. |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 11:17:06
quote:
Originally posted by pericakralj
Hello everyone.I posted earlier about my severe anxiety.I am much better since i am back to TMS approach and going angain to my theraphist.But i have One more small problem which scares me just a little bit.
I have tested positive for candida in my digestive system,in my stool,about 2 months ago.Although i dont have any serius troubles with my stomach,i wanted to cure it.I took some homeophatic remedies and after month i have been negative.Then last week i decided to test my self again because i have heard that it can return,and that scared me.When i was taking my remedies for the first time homeophat told me to avoid sugars and white bread...So i did,and when i came back negative i returned to eat all of that in large quantites. So when i tested again i came back positive again.I didnt do anything wrong to get this yeast infection again,just eating sugar.Didnt use any antibiotics.Can it be that recurant infection is result of TMS.Sarno say in his books that it can be.But i dont know how to treat it then.Should i use remedies to cure it again or should i ignore it like other TMS symptoms and let my immune sistem do its work?I am full of represed emotions and there is so much work to be done ,says my theraphist.
I suspect it is TMS because i was afraid that it will return for a few days and then tested and it did.Someone wrote on this bord ,,what you expect,you will get" so i am little confused.
How to approach it this time?
Does Candida not thrive on anger? I can see how eliminating(permanently, not just for a while) sugar and refined flours can help you. These substances can greatly hinder your ability to focus. Homeopathy can help too.....but it seems there needs to be some conscious work done by you also. Look at your life...... who or what are you holding onto? What's the fear and anger about?
I must say this also...... TMS ..... is just a fancy label for US....in my view. Try not to get too caught up in "does TMS cause this?" That's a way for the mind to deflect us from the real issue.... and that's M-E me. TMS doesn't cause anything.... it's just a phrase. The answers are within.
Continue your path....... you may take a step back now and then...... but you're always moving forward...... even if the mind is claims you're not. |
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