| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jack |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 06:09:01
Hi guys. Haven't posted in awhile. I have been trying to journal and think psychologically. I am a marathon runner who has suffered with groin/pelvic pain since the end of October. I haven't run in 2+ weeks now. I took the time off to prove to myself that perhaps rest would be answer. I have been swimming exclusively. Well this morning I went on the treadmill to test it out. Well the groin pain was pretty bad, it is as though I never took off from running.
This is so disheartening. Or is it? I took the time off from running to see if the running was aggravating things. Two weeks I feel should have made some sort of difference. I guess I am not a 100% believer yet - as I still fear if I run (a) the pain will never go away; (b) i am making things worse; (c) it hurts!!
I have been going to Monte's website and one of the things he writes about is that you can do all the work but if you don't do the work correctly, the pain won't go away. I don't mean to be self-flagellating, but I guess I am not doing a good enough job.
I am pretty depressed by the pain still being there when I attempt to run.
Any thoughts guys? Thanks.
Jack |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 01:08:51
Jack, regarding surgery, to the best of my reccollection, Sarno says Surgery is the best placebo we have, it is usually good for about two years. They knock you out, cut you, fill you full of strong pain killers like morphine, send you home with percodan - of course you don't feel any pain for a long time. I second Hilary, read, re-read and re-read Sarno, the TMS gremlin blinded you to surgery as placebo, it's in there. Good luck! |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 11:39:39
quote:
BUT AND A BIG BUT, how does he know for sure that i have athletic pubalgia. there is no definitive dx. they do it by symptomology. AND my friend had great results from it.
I have no idea what "athletic pubalgia" is. I would bet anything that it is a diagnosis made up by doctors to describe a condition for which they can't find a real diagnosis, such as fibromyalgia.
As long as there are insurance companies willing to pay, there will be doctors willing to make up new diagnoses.
You are holding out hope that someone else can "fix" your problem. You refuse to accept that you have the key to recovery. Don't worry what's in the back of your mind. Do the work and recovery will take care of itself.
Perhaps the reasons for your TMS are so difficult for you to face that your mind is totally unwilling to give up its obsession with the physical. Many people who cannot accept the diagnosis refuse to accept that there may be something "wrong with them" that is causing the pain. This attitude must be overcome. |
| Hilary |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 11:33:23
Jack,
Regarding this point:
quote:
Originally posted by jack
Thanks TT and Mike-
It is a very difficult struggle to convince oneself the pain is in your mind. I guess I am not there yet.
You are trying to convince yourself of the wrong thing here.
Are you reading and re-reading and re-reading-again Dr Sarno's books? I ask because Sarno very specifically makes the point that the pain is not "in your mind" and I think this is a really important point for TMS sufferers. He's absolutely not saying that you are imagining the pain: the pain is real, is caused by mild oxygen deprivation and is a distraction from your feelings.
I'm new to TMS. I am reading the books every single day based on suggestions from people here and find this to be crucial in healing. I'm a swimmer, not a runner, but there were months when I wouldn't dare to go near a pool after a chiro told me I wouldn't get better unless I stopped swimming for a while. I have just started swimming again and I'm doing okay.
I believe that you will not recover from TMS unless you drum the details into your head over and over again, go back to the basics and really concentrate on what Sarno is saying.
All the best
Hilary
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| jack |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 09:59:18
dave-thanks. i can't get out of the back of my mind, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel - a doctor who could possibly fix this. BUT AND A BIG BUT, how does he know for sure that i have athletic pubalgia. there is no definitive dx. they do it by symptomology. AND my friend had great results from it.
this is definitely the crossroads you guys talked about in previous posts. |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 09:46:49
Jack, unless you are able to repudiate the structural diagnosis you cannot benefit at all from the TMS theory.
If you truly believed in TMS you would never even consider seeing that specialist in Philly.
You are actually one of the lucky ones who has negative findings on MRI and X-Ray. Others are not so lucky and go for surgery. Consider it a blessing and give yourself over to the TMS diagnosis. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. |
| jack |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 09:39:02
Michele-thanks. Here's the scoop. I have had a negative MRI, a negative x-ray. Done PT. the doctor now wants me to see a specialist in Philly who does a special procedure for groin injuries (mostly soccer players). One of my friends actually went up to Philly and had the surgery and it was successful. it is the type of thing that there really are no diagnostic tests for, if you just don't get better. so that is where i am at odds with the tms stuff. the pain doesn't go away, could it be "athletic pubalgia"? i think they doctors give it a name when the pain doesn't go away. i really don't want to go to philly and have the doc say, well we can do the surgery ......
i know this is still focusing on the physical - but it is sort of vague. do you understand. possibly a cure, possibly not. |
| Michele |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 09:18:51
Jack,
You are still so focused on the physical. I would get frustrated when people said that, but you know, they were right. You are so consumed with this pain! I had some pain over the weekend, but I was having trouble with my husband, stuff going on with the house, etc., so I journaled like this:
Sadness = PAIN
Discontentment = PAIN
Anger = PAIN
If you have had all the tests you can think of and all the doctors have told you there is NOTHING WRONG, then more than likely the pain is nothing more than your emotions causing PAIN. You might also want to check out Monte Huefle (sp?) website: http://www.runningpain.com/ You can download his book for $10. Another good one is Fred Amir.
Keep reading, keep reading, keep reading. Focus on the psychological, not the physical! You can do it!! |
| jack |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 08:45:28
i guess i'm not doing so well. still haven't run. the groin and hip adductor pain is pretty bad still. i am working on the emotional/mental stuff. i guess i am not at 100% belief yet. i tried to run and 2 minutes into it, it was excruciating. of course one of my friends told me about a specialist who does some surgery to fix this. i am petrified to do it because my tests (mri and xrays) but it still is there in the back of my mind.
i just miss running so much because i love it so. |
| Michele |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 07:52:49
Just bumping this up for you Jack. See my post.
I have noticed significant improvement. I just need to get past my fear of going longer distances. Definitely check out the ChiRunning book and check your form. Don't get discouraged! I've been at this for a while too and my progress is very slow. |
| Michele |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:39:18
Jack,
I haven't been on the forum for a while, but noticed your post. I've been running, but not very long distances. I notice some pain when I get started, but then it seems to go away and reappear when I stop. Sometimes I think I'm trying too hard to "fix" myself.
I bought ChiRunning over the Christmas break. Very, very interesting, and the author appears to be on the same wavelength with emotional pain causing physical symptoms. In his introduction, he quotes Caroline Myss. I was sold after that. He focuses on form, posture, and body sensing. Running from your "chi". I haven't been able to try it outside yet (too much ice) but I can see the benefits of which he speaks. If you have a Borders or Barnes & Noble, go check it out. He also has a website: http://www.chirunning.com that has alot of information. Maybe just a little change in your form, posture, and how to run will help. |
| pault |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 04:48:40
Jack , ever been to a tms Doctor? Sounds like you need a diagnosis to give you some confidence that no damage is being done from running.Your unconscious brain is holding something that it greatly fears will surface.Remember things in there are illogical. Paul. |
| jack |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 09:21:04
Thanks TT and Mike-
It is a very difficult struggle to convince oneself the pain is in your mind. I guess I am not there yet. TT-this morning I tried walking and the minute I tried to run - the bouncing caused alot of pain in the groin and pelvic region. I did have an MRI and I did try anti-inflammatories and the MRI nor an x-ray showed anything. That is why I decided to not run these past weeks.
How does one start to run and thoroughly convince their mind that you arenot making the "injury" worse, you are not going to make it never get better. This is my albatross I guess. I keep thinking there is another doctor, treatment out there. Or that I need to rest and rest and rest and give up running. I have been swimming and that doesn't hurt my groin - the pounding does.
Michele - I read your posts - you are a marathoner as well - how is the TMS therapy working for you? Can you run through your pain? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 08:41:14
Jack have you tried walking? I know for a runner its boring. I used to be one. Completed 13 marathons, 3:30 PR - never any hip or back pain back then. When I walk for about 15-20 minutes my butt muscles release and I lose my limp. That proves to me that the pain comes from the muscles holding due to TMS because they think they are protecting the joint cartelege.
When I proved to myself I could release the muscles and lose the limp by walking, that was a big breakthrough and TMS confidence builder.
I have since used this method, sporadicaly, trying to run as SLOW as possible. After you are used to strideing, it is a whole new way of running. It is SLOWER than walking. Try giveing it a shot and see if you can consciously release the spasmed, TMS holding, butt muscles, using the slowest possible pace. Give it 10-20 minutes and see what happens. I don't run anymore on the streets, but I hope to sprint, on the tennis courts again someday, and am using this phyical strategy along with thinking emotionaly. |
| mzcycling |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 08:17:02
Jack,
All I can say is there was a time that i can remember not being able to run for the phone in my apartment without feeling lower back pain. I read the book and re-read the book and applied the advise to my life. It is not easy to think the pain is in the mind and not physical. I thought it was a miracle when i could run again just by thinking correctly. My ordeal lasted about 11 months, until i started reading the book. before the book I spent "to much money" on a chiropractor (2 infact), i tried electric stimulation, and in the end I read a book that cost $15 and I healed myself. I am sorry you are having a tough time with this, i understand the "want" to run again. Have you read "Healing back pain"? I realize your pain is not in your back, but the way of thinking can be appied to any part of the body. There is another book by Marc Sopher, I believe the title is "to be or not to be pain free". I have not read this book, but have heard it is also ver helpful. Good luck, and focus on the mind, not the pain. I often think of this statement which is in the "healing back pain" ... If the femur bone, which is the largest bone in the body, can heal it self in just six weeks and the pain really only lasts a short time, why is it that people experience pain for years without feeling better?
Mike |
| jack |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 07:53:56
Thanks mz cycling for your input. I guess I am still torn - the pelvic pain has not gotten better with rest - perhaps more rest is needed - perhaps there is another treatment out there; maybe another diagnosis..... But when I tried to run this morning - 2 minutes and the groin was so painful. This is very very tough. The question is how long do you continue running through the pain ---- it has been since October. I tried running through it through November and part of December. I thought I was doing the "work" but I guess not well enough.... as the pain is still with me. I have not run for weeks now and the minute i try to run, it's back.
i realize this is still not thinking psychologically.
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| mzcycling |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 07:36:07
Jack,
Sorry to hear about the pain. I know what you are feeling. I suffered from very bad lower back pain that kept me off the road and running. I was so discouraged at times, walking was not the same as logging a good 10 mile run on a saturday morning. I began reading Dr. Sarno's book and really focused on the words and the meaning of them. I am not sure if you have read Dr. Sarno's "Healing Back pain", but this was what allowed me to be an active person again and run 3 marathons since the TMS. I was never a marathoner before. Something that has helped me, and it sounds crazy to some, but it helps me. When I am feeling new pain, whether it be in my back, shoulder, hamstring, knees, hips, ect. I read page 82 from "healing back pain". This is a page that lists the "daily reminders". I keep a copy of this page in my desk drawer so that I can read through the list a few times a day if I need to. Let me know if you need the list. Hang in there, it will take some time. I started out running 15 min miles just to convince my mind that running was safe for me. It is all in the mind, you will get there.
Mike |
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