| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Hilary |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 13:28:24
My depression and obsessive thinking is back again with a vengeance. I've had the back pain and got over that really quickly with Sarno's help; what's harder for me is depression and repetitive thoughts.
I am convinced this is TMS equivalent - I fit the TMS personality to a T - but just can't figure out exactly why I feel quite so bad right now. Or rather, I see that there might be things in my life not working (and reasons that I would be depressed) but I can't make the supressed emotions link. So I am going to used the space below to shamelessly ramble about myself, in the hope that someone wise might be able to make sense of it.
1. I am 41 and single. I broke up with a man last year who was utterly inappropriate, after spending about a year trying to be nice and supportive at my own expense. So I'm single, but what's more painful right now is that I'm twisting it around in my head to make it my fault. For years I loved being a single girl - relished time alone, had boyfriends but never wanted to settle down and having babies was the absolutely LAST thing I wanted. In many ways I felt or sensed that my personality (anxious, quite neurotic, very self-involved but a people-pleaser) was not right for motherhood. Now I blame myself for not having realised that I should have figured this stuff out 10 years ago. On some level I am aware that this is mad, but my mind seems to be on a different track altogether.
2. Everywhere I look, friends and family have settled down. They have turned away from me - at least that's how I feel. I am one of three siblings, and we have always had an excellent relationship (I am the middle sister of 2 brothers). My brothers are both married with kids. I find this both wonderful and horrible. Their wives are both very nice and good to me. I love my nephews and nieces to bits, and I wish that they had never been born. That's the bit I can't bear about myself. I don't want this change to be happening; I want to be the main focus in other peoples' lives; I want to be important and as needed as I used to be. I don't want any change to be happening, I don't want to have to get older, I don't want to feel as if I am losing the cool, independent woman I used to be. I cannot of course tell my brothers or friends this, but I feel very very lonely sometimes. I never used to feel lonely. I don't like feeling lonely I think back to those days when I couldn't care less whether or not I was in a relationship, and I don't know where that person went.
3. I find myself wanting a loving relationship with a man who can be my friend. I find myself wondering about a family. I then beat myself up for having left such a thing too late, and wonder again why I didn't position myself better for marriage when I was younger. I can hardly believe I am writing this nonsense - my younger, cooler self would have laughed herself sick over these kinds of sentiments.
4. I am absolutely paranoid about my age. I can hardly bring myself to even say the words 'forty-one' if ever I am asked.
5. Overall I feel a deep sense of shame and humiliation that I do not have husband, children or 'conventional' life. This is where my depression is centred. The younger cooler studio-living self would also have had a field day on this.
6. I am frightened that I will always feel like this, always be alone, turn into bitter old spinster aunt who the nephews resentfully visit once a year and who smells of mints.
7. Yes, I know there is nothing wrong with spinsterhood. Or mints.
8. I am sick to death of hearing about peoples' fascinating kids, happy-forever-togetherness and generally wonderful lives. At least the recession means that I don't have to hear about their plans to turn their 4-bedroom homes into 6-bedroom homes.
9. I think I might be angry underneath all this, but I don't know at what. I think that my depression starts with an unspoken angry thought, which I somehow miss, and then builds and builds on it. I might also be really envious. I cannot bear to be envious.
10. This bout of depression started after a friend set me up on a blind date 3 weeks ago. The friend was being helpful, the date was perfectly pleasant, but I plunged headlong into the blues. I have a huge problem with people trying to help me, or do nice things for me, because I feel that it comes with huge pricetags.
11. There are nice things in my life too. I have a fabulous job which I love. And I'm in therapy. It's helping quite a bit, but I'm a slow learner. Every time I go I realise how long it takes me to understand what I am really feeling.
12. If you got this far, you're a real trooper. Thanks for reading.
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| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| campbell28 |
Posted - 02/17/2009 : 15:58:32
Hi Hilary,
You talk a lot in this post about the cool, independent person you used to be: that you never cared if you were in a relationship and loved being single.
I'm just interested to read that because it sounds like the idea of independence is something that very much defined you. Independence implies not needing anyone, not being reliant on anyone - but also possibly being cut off from people.
This may not apply to you at all, but it caught my eye because I used to think of myself as very independent: again, that was almost how I defined myself. I was really quite proud of being so self-reliant: when my friends complained about not having boyfriends or how miserable they were being single a part of me just thought they were weak and silly. I didn't 'need' anyone. I found it very difficult to say that I needed anyone: literally, just saying the words.
It took having the TMS and getting through it to make me realise how very dependant I actually was on people around me: how much I actually did need them. Talking up my independence was actually just a rather elaborate defence against rejection: if you don't 'need' anyone, you can never get hurt.
Now I realise how much I really do want things like marriage and babies, and how much I need my friends and my family. It's just being loved really, everyone wants to be loved (I am making retching noises writing that because it sounds so cheesy but of course like so many cheesy things it is true).
I wonder whether maybe underneath all your independence there was somehting of the same thing going on? and now its all piled on top of you at once? and like you say, you don't want to be this new person who feels lonely and not independant any more...
This is not to say that you SHOULD immediately rush around looking for a husband, house, Volvo etc in order to make yourself feel better because it probably totally would not, but that if you can come to terms with the new way of feeling about things (which therapy will help) and accept that you are maybe less independent than you thought, that will help?
I don't know, I 'm talking from my experience so it might be all wrong but it chimed a few bells so thought it was worth responding...
Good luck with everything anyway,
Campbell. |
| tcherie |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 15:35:19
Hello Hilary,
I can relate to where you mentioned that you felt your personality may not have been right for motherhood. I have always wanted to have children when I got married. But recently since I have been dealing with TMS, I realized how anxious and consuming my thoughts are. I never really feel at peace.
I used to feel at peace, but lost it when I started having health concerns and feeling like my life was out of control. I am still struggling to feel grounded again and not worry about the TMS symptoms.
Now I think to myself, I should not have children feeling like this. I hate feeling so self-aware. |
| Hilary |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 11:52:12
Wow. What amazing, helpful and compassionate responses. Thank you, everyone. I have quite a bit to think about, but I am also suddenly aware, reading these responses, of how little of the true TMS work I have been doing at the moment. I think about journaling but never do it; I think about getting angry but never hit anything. I think I need to go back to basics; why is it so difficult to remember that? |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 08:01:23
Hilary,
I just wanted jump in an say I hope you feel better soon. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am absolutely plagued with depression and obsessive thinking as well; I feel like it's a curse sometimes, but therapy does help. My therapist is constantly working to bring me into the here and now. That helps. I started reading Ekhardt Tolle again and that's been somewhat settling to me.
It's funny, the content of my obsessive thinking is almost completely the opposite of yours. I'm 49, I've had the two kids and the marriage for 20 years. I used to second-guess my decision about the man I married; thankfully, my therapist somehow talked me into completely appreciating him and being so grateful for him, which was hopeful, because I can now see how therapy really can help you change your thinking and your habits about how you're seeing things. I also obsess about all the mistakes I think I made with my kids--that stuff gets really bad for me pretty often, and I'm also often stuck on how I could have had a really great career but for my devotion to motherhood, etc.
Getting peace involves two things:
1) acceptance of what life choices we've made and acceptance of our own here and now, and
2) learning to control the obsessions instead of allowing the obsessions to control us.
This is the real key and the hardest thing for me in all the work. For years my M.O. has been to latch on to some obsession, and as soon as I started to lose the physical pain (which was my latest obsession), I switched into other obsessive thoughts. So I just have to basically discipline myself to not "go to the pain or the obsession." This is so very difficult, particularly during my menstrual period, (excuse me guys), but it's worth mentioning because I just went through mine again last week and my "pain body," which Tolle would call it, damn near killed me! Everything bad is magnified for a week and for years I made the mistake of incorporating that black negativity into my reality. Anyway, now I'm back in a more friendly reality and I see that things aren't really so bad.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but while it sounds like a simple way to peace, it takes so much time and mental effort to wrap your mind around everything, all your choices and all the mis-steps--but also, what we're missing and what's buried under all that negativity are all the amazing and wonderful things that have happened, too. Unfortunately, we don't allow ourselves the possibility that our unique choices were sometimes absolutely stellar and right for us, even though they may not be the "popular" choices, or the easy choices, or the "pretty" ones, or the choices that our siblings made. To compare what we choose and think to others--well, it's a mistake, isn't it? We are all unique people. |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 07:28:27
Phyllis, that was me you spoke to.
This is where things start getting confusing: there are 2 Hilary's on this forum!
(But maybe you spoke to the other Hilary as well and in any case it doesn't invalidate your reply.)
Hilary N |
| phyllis |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 01:48:44
Dear Hilary,
So sorry to hear you are down in the dumps. You were so kind to me when I joined the forum and I even spoke to you on the 'phone. If you e mail me I can give you my phone numberif you want a chat.
I am not very good at advice I am afraid, but some of the replies you have had make sense. Corny I know, but could you book a trip somewhere. Life in Britain is ropey at the moment with EVERYONE talking about the recession etc.
You could write down all the POSITIVE things in your life at the moment. You have a job you like which is a great plus. You are very aware of why you feel the way you do, which is good and you are having therapy. These are all pluses.
I do hope you feel better soon. I am sure you will.
I neve had babies because I couldn't and I used to think my heart would break, but I do confess I have got used to it. Parenthood is hard and I know it is rewarding too. However, I do have a lot of freedom. There are things for and against!
Love
Phyllis
Lincolnshire. |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 19:49:57
quote:
That fits in well with a quote I just read: "amor é pra sentir e não pra entender" - love is for feeling and not to understand.
yeah come to think of it that schema therapy thing was total crap
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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| Peg |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 18:36:21
Hi Hiliary,
I'm sorry you're distressed. I'm not sure how much help I'll be, but I can relate to some of what you are expressing.
I agree that your depression and obsessive thinking is a TMS equivalent. Which means they are there because of repressed emotions---anger probably, grief possibly.
I have had trouble with the same and found a couple of things helpful. In Claire Weekes book, she talks about depression as well as anxiety. It only makes things worse to beat yourself up about how you're feeling. Also, recently, I read some material about anger release and our unrealistic expectations that everything in our lives should be perfect or be going exactly how we would like. This just sets us up for disappointment. I found some good information on a web site called Urbanmonk.
To address some of your points more specifically, if your last relationship was "utterly inappropriate", then you did the right thing to end it. Moving forward, now that you feel more ready for something more permanent, just remember not to hold yourself, your man or the relationship up to the "perfectionist's" standards.
The fact that you were enjoying your single years and not pining away for a husband, may show a level of maturity many never achieve. On the other hand, could it have been a fear of commitment?
Don't beat yourself up for not "figuring things out". None of us really have things figured out. We're just doing the best we can.
Just because you feel emotionally ready for a loving relationship, doesn't mean you're losing the cool, independent woman. I suspect that you will always be that. Perhaps with the emotional growth you have had with the self inquiry necessary to overcome TMS, you are now ready to share yourself more fully with someone. That's courageous and it's never too late.
You're 41!!! You're just a kid. You have time to have a long relationship and a family if you so choose. Although having children isn't for everyone, the fact that you are self aware would make you a better parent than the many parents out there screwing up their children because they have absolutely no insight into their personalities and motivations.
Have you ever considered that the "conventional life" is not all it's cracked up to be. And parenting and marriage are not usually smooth sailing. I don't know any couple or family without problems.
"I have a huge problem with people trying to help me, or do nice things for me, because I feel that it comes with huge pricetags."
Is it really because you think it comes with "huge pricetags", or is it because deep down you don't believe you deserve those nice things done for you?
What if you tried doing something physical as a release? Physical exercise if you prefer, or something a little more edgy, like throwing plates, bottles (or beating that bed as Scott mentioned). You might be surprised how good it feels. Eventually, it might help you identify what you're angry at. The other day, I googled anger release and I found pictures of this vending machine labeled "anger release". Inside the machine were plates, bottles, vases and glass figurines. Pretty funny, but not a bad idea! I can remember how good it felt when I would toss the bottles into the dumpster for recycling. It also felt quite good when I was renovating my kitchen and I got to demolish the old cabinets.
Some of us who are older than you have similar feelings of not being where we want to be in our lives. Not having accomplished enough. Fearing aging and death. I think it benefits us to look at things differently, accepting that we are enough,have done enough and are where we are supposed to be. Of course now that I have written that, I'm not so sure I can believe it fully either. All we can do is try.
Hope you feel better soon.
Take Care,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 12:42:24
quote:
(Scottjmurray)it's an intellectual approach to dealing with emotions, which is an oxymoron as i've discovered. emotions aren't for thinking through, they're for letting out.
That fits in well with a quote I just read: "amor é pra sentir e não pra entender" - love is for feeling and not to understand.
Hilary N |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 06:24:19
quote:
Scott, I think I remember reading a post that you made a while ago, in which you talked about schema therapy. With hindsight, did that help? Do you think it might help Hilary?
nah. too complicated. it's an intellectual approach to dealing with emotions, which is an oxymoron as i've discovered. emotions aren't for thinking through, they're for letting out.
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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| forestfortrees |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 20:12:52
One last thought: have you checked out the post on anxiety?
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5402
oooooh! oooooh! one more post and I get my first star! (I'm at 48 posts, and I think that 50 gets you your first star)
Simple pleasures, eh?
One last silly comment: I feel a great kinship with the other one or two evening-of-Valentines-day-posters. |
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 20:02:28
Hilary, I can totally relate to those sort of midlife feelings. ...the guilt and shame about not having gotten where you want to be in life. I've made a lot of progress on them, but I used to be in them deep for a number of years. I'm sure it's just the TMS personality and parent issues as Scott mentions, but the challenge is how to change the way you think about it. For me, it was an issue of learning to be happy with a life where some things have taken a bit longer than I might have wanted. I'm sure that you will be able to find some peace on the issue as well.
Scott, I think I remember reading a post that you made a while ago, in which you talked about schema therapy. With hindsight, did that help? Do you think it might help Hilary?
Hilary, you may want to read Kim Ruby's story on depression and TMS:
http: //www. tarpityoga.com/olive.html . The only other success story that I've found thus far that mentions depression has been Scott's
quote:
I felt or sensed that my personality (anxious, quite neurotic, very self-involved but a people-pleaser) was not right for motherhood.
I think that self-awareness is worth an awful lot for things like that, especially if you make a conscious decision to insulate your kids from the negative effects of those traits as much as you can. No one is perfect after all.
Forest
tmswiki.org |
| cfhunter |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 18:41:54
One thing that was helpful to me with "intrsuive obesessive thoughts"...I was told that when I have a thought that is "disturbing" just say to myself...."It is a thought...SO WHAT? that is all it was."
Don't give it any "ammunition" so to speak..byt creating a story behind it..."Oh I must be a terrible person for havingthat thought...why would I have that thought??? etc etc."
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| scottjmurray |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 14:47:12
alrighty lets do this
quote:
My depression and obsessive thinking is back again with a vengeance.
these are both tms equivalents caused by repressed emotional issues
quote:
1. I am 41 and single. I broke up with a man last year who was utterly inappropriate, after spending about a year trying to be nice and supportive at my own expense.
people pleasing personality. this mirrors early childhood relationship with the parents. they did not provide enough love and support for you, and so you believed and continue to believe that you need to change yourself in order to get others to like you. rage at having to do this.
quote:
So I'm single, but what's more painful right now is that I'm twisting it around in my head to make it my fault.
guilt = anger turned inward. anger needs to be expressed outward at the object (boyfriend, your parents/past abusers)
quote:
In many ways I felt or sensed that my personality (anxious, quite neurotic, very self-involved but a people-pleaser) was not right for motherhood.
unfortunately you're right here. (but it's not your fault, and if you feel shame about this, push the anger outward from your body)
quote:
Now I blame myself for not having realised that I should have figured this stuff out 10 years ago.
more anger twisted around inward that needs to be expressed outward.
quote:
2. Everywhere I look, friends and family have settled down. They have turned away from me - at least that's how I feel.
who cares? if they really have "turned away from you" then they don't deserve to be in your life anyway. more than likely though this is past feelings getting mixed with present ones.
quote:
I love my nephews and nieces to bits, and I wish that they had never been born. That's the bit I can't bear about myself.
we can't control how we feel, just what we do.
quote:
I don't want this change to be happening; I want to be the main focus in other peoples' lives; I want to be important and as needed as I used to be.
co-dependency. you have not yet dealt with the emotions of your emotional abandonment and rejection from your childhood. you'll continue being addicted to the approval and love of others until you sit down and rage and grieve it out.
quote:
5. Overall I feel a deep sense of shame and humiliation that I do not have husband, children or 'conventional' life. This is where my depression is centred. The younger cooler studio-living self would also have had a field day on this.
do do do...
more stuff about shame which is anger that needs to be expressed outward... hmm..
quote:
8. I am sick to death of hearing about peoples' fascinating kids, happy-forever-togetherness and generally wonderful lives.
yeah that crap is pretty annoying
quote:
9. I think I might be angry underneath all this, but I don't know at what. I think that my depression starts with an unspoken angry thought, which I somehow miss, and then builds and builds on it. I might also be really envious. I cannot bear to be envious.
damn right you're angry. this wouldn't be happening if you weren't. your angry at being abandoned by everyone, which could be a mix between the present and the past. whatever the emotions they need to come out or they'll continue to be expressed as depression and your other symptoms. as far as envy goes, its a nasty emotion that needs to be transformed into outward anger and grief. trust me, being envious will not make you feel better. it's like a mangled version of the anger/grieving process that keeps you trapped.
quote:
12. If you got this far, you're a real trooper. Thanks for reading.
np. go punch a bed for an hour.
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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